Official Smogon Tournament XII - Finals [no winner]

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After we in the TD team posted our original decision regarding njnp keeping the trophy for winning OST, the general public opinion was that this decision was faulty. As a result, we decided to review our stance.

Following this, the TD team has changed its stance on the matter, and has now decided that njnp should not be considered the just winner of OST #12, and thus will be stripped of his trophy.

Our original line of thought was that njnp defeated his opponents without any extra assistance (to the best of our knowledge), which makes his win legitimate. However, we failed to consider the following factors that have made us reconsider:

1. njnp engaged in behavior that was decidedly intended to change the outcome of a set he wasn't playing. Although the outcome of the set was that the player that njnp assisted lost, this should not be used as a point in njnp's favor. By ghosting MattyBrollic, njnp essentially got two shots at eliminating a player.
2. Had njnp ghosting MattyBrollic been uncovered before the final game of the tournament been exposed, njnp would be immediately disqualified. Committing an offense and the subsequent punishment for that shouldn't be depending on when the offense is uncovered.

Moving forward, anyone who is caught cheating in a tournament will be disqualified immediately, and any accolades won from that tournament, including trophies, will be revoked if applicable, even if said instance of cheating did not directly affect their own matches. The basis for this ruling is that cheating can impact the bracket as a whole and therefore potential opponents, even if this was not the intended purpose.


On a slightly related note, we've updated our policy regarding tournament banned players. These players can no longer post in the Tournaments forum or any of the subforums, and they're no longer allowed Voice (+) on Smogtours.
Moreover, tournament banned players are no longer allowed to compete in any tournaments, even those held in other subforums than the Tournaments section. Although the Tournament Directors are not enforcing the policies we're setting outside of the Tournament forum, we expect the forum leaders of Smogon to follow the policies we're outlining and will be actings as consults to them if there's a need.
This is good but please think things through in future before acting, not you an attack on you by any means but it does lessen the credibility of TDs. These factors should have been spotted sooner and not picked up on by other users. It's good you've listened but it would be nice to have a little more consistency rather you be seen to change your mind on such a big decision.

Also you cannot disagree with the TD ruling, if he was found out sooner he would have been tour banned. It's not even an argument he won his trophy fair and square because he should not have ever of been in that position.
 

Tokyo Tom

Somewhere between psychotic and iconic
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'll gladly take the minority opinion and say this is shameful. NJNP won his trophy fair and square and you strip him because of a community that has bandwagoned shit since its conception.
i do feel bad for NJNP but come on dude what kind of argument is that. Isa LITERALLY explained why NJNP did not win his trophy fair and square

e: ok you know what since you've persisted on this topic both here and in other threads let me ask you this. if it wasn't NJNP or recreant or one of your friends would you have even posted. every argument i have seen you make in the past several months has been biased as fuck and you haven't addressed any similar issues that have not regarded your friends. i don't think your actual motive here is to get justice, stop acting like you're above everyone else here
 

Entei

TIMMEHHHHHHHHHHHHhHhhhh
is a Tiering Contributor
can i play wq for finals since thats what should have happened in the first place,,
 
Laurel shut the fuck up
Who are you?

Also, nice like farming.

i do feel bad for NJNP but come on dude what kind of argument is that. Isa LITERALLY explained why NJNP did not win his trophy fair and square

e: ok you know what since you've persisted on this topic both here and in other threads let me ask you this. if it wasn't NJNP or recreant or one of your friends would you have even posted. every argument i have seen you make in the past several months has been biased as fuck and you haven't addressed any similar issues that have not regarded your friends. i don't think your actual motive here is to get justice, stop acting like you're above everyone else here
Yes, because the actions of the individual in question do not deserve a ban. His punishment of being tournament banned is fair but not losing a trophy. Matty reached out to NJNP asking for help, NJNP helped his friend at a bare minimum, a bare, bare minimum. NJNP won OST playing every single game on his own, but Matty asked for help so NJNP loses his trophy.

You can say the right thing to do is say, "Sorry, I can't help you," but how many people would do that to a friend. Of course that is a shitty position to be in, I would fake AFK, but he shouldn't be faulted his trophy that he worked hard for for that.

Did I see Isa's point about if it was found in round 2 he'd be banned, Yes, but I still do not think that what NJNP did deserves to lose a trophy or even be removed from the tournament. Probably get banned from tournaments as he was, but banned users (Masterclass, CTC) among others have been able to finish a tournament banned as well.

Also for the last point, I don't act like I'm better than everyone else, I act like I have my own independent opinion. That takes balls. I stand up to authority and say what I believe. How many people on Smogon can say they do that? This community is all about riding the popular opinion to farm as many likes as possible, and I have enough self confidence to stand against that. I'm not saying everyone who agrees with the decision has no self confidence that is completely false, I'm just saying it takes confidence to disagree like this publicly when you know everyone is going to give you shit. Sure, I am biased, I will defend my friend, but my opinion would be the same regardless of the user in question.

I hope people can understand my point of view, and instead of quoting me all day like the last two times, just let my comment stand in solidarity because I know the decision will not change. I want my thoughts to be here and be respected.
 
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And thats why I told him to shut the fuck up. Its so fucking obvious that what he said is only because njnp is his friend. You can't be that dumb to think that njnp getting his trophy stripped is fucking "shameful." There is no bandwagon, there are just plain facts and him calling it shameful is complete and utter disrespect to the TD's.

Therefore, he should shut the fuck up.
 
And thats why I told him to shut the fuck up. Its so fucking obvious that what he said is only because njnp is his friend. You can't be that dumb to think that njnp getting his trophy stripped is fucking "shameful." There is no bandwagon, there are just plain facts and him calling it shameful is complete and utter disrespect to the TD's.

Therefore, he should shut the fuck up.
1) So you wouldn't stand up for your friend? That means you're either too insecure or a bad friend
2) It is shameful because the TDs respected the opinion of a bias community over their unbiased selves. I respect each and every TD, more than 95% of the community. That being said, I do not agree with their decision. Isa, Dekzeh, Zebraiken, MDragon, Jirachee, Oglemi, Eo, and whoever I missed all hold themselves to a high standard and earned their positions for a reason. So don't say shit like complete and utter disrespect to TDs because you show complete and utter disrespect to freedom of speech.
 
no i wouldn't stand up for my friend if I knew he blatanly cheated. That's not being insecure, thats being an honest and logical human being. Ur just admitting that you have no acknowledgment of the actual rules in the fucking tour with that statement. Thats like defending Sammy Sosa for being a good hitter when the only reason he was good was because he used steroids. Your logic is fucking stupid.

it is disrespectful you fucktard, theres nothing wrong with them re-evaluating their thoughts if they realized that the initial outcome was unjust. And your right, they worked hard for their positions which leads me to not have any suspicion of bias in their decision. I trust them, just like you do.

why are you talking about freedom of speech dipshit, people can say whatever the fuck they want on the internet. Nobody is telling you that you can't post, but if your going to post retarded shit, be prepared to take an L.
 
Could we see the ghosting log just for transparency, since the ghosters already know it so no need to protect anyone ?
The tour ban is a no-brainer, but if the ghosting was like, two pieces of advice because a friend asked him and had no effect on the tournament it seems a little harsh and public-influenced.

edit: nvm seems like real ghosting so it's basically 2 shots at beating someone, deserved
 
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Could we see the ghosting log just for transparency, since the ghosters already know it so no need to protect anyone ?
The tour ban is a no-brainer, but if the ghosting was like, two pieces of advice because a friend asked him and had no effect on the tournament it seems a little harsh and public-influenced.
I mean, I understand people would be pissed that this guy received money but that's already sent, but do we really care if he keeps a trophy that, as far as we know about his games, he won fair and square (something which would be debatable for a past winner like gr8astard for instance).
It was basically Matty asking for opinions on one turn vs WQ and NJNP gave his opinion, iirc Matty didn't even do what NJNP asked him to so yeah, I don't remember this properly through my apologies
 
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