2v2 Old Gen 2v2 Doubles Megathread

turtalkatthing

Edelweiss
is a Social Media Contributor
can we qb ally switch from oras before 2v2pool league starts it's super busted

thank you
Quick announcement with like little formatting

Ally Switch is banned from Gen 6 2v2

ORAS council banned ally switch like 2 weeks ago but no one announced it.

Votes:
PA: ban
VG: dnb
Mish: ban
Sansho: ban
TKT: ban

Some other thing is probably gonna become a problem after the draft pool tour so expect to hear on that like 2 months after that tour ends as well
 
This thread getting resurrected reminded me of a team I had fun with a long time ago that I wanted to share. It's cool but I can't see an opportunity coming up to use it again any time soon.

Almost a year ago in September, Gen 5 2v2 Doubles was a featured spotlight ladder. I made a team based off of my knowledge of what playing Gen 5 GBU Doubles was like and peaked top 10 on the ladder with it.
BW 2v2 Top 10 - Copy.png


The team: https://pokepast.es/ec506d4994fd53d2
:latios: :thundurus: :hitmontop: :excadrill:

The first thing I wanted to do was use a combo of Thundurus + Hitmontop. I remember it being one of the toughest leads to counter in the GBU days and that was still true here. I was surprised no one used bulky Thundurus here because it's incredibly disruptive to all the teams that plan to take it down in one shot. You survive a Dragon-gem boosted Draco Meteor from Timid Latios 100% of the time, and a Rock Slide from Adamant Tyranitar + Sand damage. The combo of Top+Genie is hard to break, shuts down Trick Room, and makes Kyurem-B leads think twice (the fact that Kyurem-B can never OHKO you with Ice STAB in this scenario is quite nice).
Next I just tacked Latios on and it worked anyway. I remembered how broken it was and told myself, "there's no way I'm not using it". Tailwind is an acceptable choice over Calm Mind, but honestly the best strategy was always going straight for an attack. I couldn't tell you which is better because IIRC both Tailwind and Calm Mind help win only one fight each.
Now I thought a ground type was needed because EQ spam is too easy here. This was tough because I don't want 3 mons weak to ice, and I also need a better plan for Sandstorm. I kept thinking about how I could fit Excadrill on here, and not have him be deadweight when not against SS. The solution I came up with was Scarf, and it actually worked very well. Drill is so strong even without a damage-boosting item, just being able to move first is a huge threat to many teams. And in non-SS matchups, you catch people off-guard because there's no logistical way they can see this coming. He is a deadly combo with Thudurus; Thundurus can stick around to spread multiple paras while you flinch things to death, that is if you don't decide to just do EQ spam. X-Scissor is filler only good for the Lati twins, never used it. Mold Breaker is an option, but then you can never pair him with Latios ever.
I'm not going over combos because this team is very flexible and you can always find a good pair to go into battle with. I believe this team has everything it needs to take on the whole tier. Every time I lost was to my own mistakes, never a bad matchup. If it does have a blatantly bad matchup, then there isn't one I can think of right off the top of my head.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen52v2doubles-1179612407
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen52v2doubles-1186398661
 
Replays and Usage Stats for 2v2 Pool Leagues' oldgens:

FULL REPLAYS:

Round 1:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407680085-hbith9s6bqnscsbyzf4ebhpjta772wppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407683975-qyypa1hxssng1el6ec2y20v7cxqqywupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407688832-wpy10ka0e2ey2ejdsn0ado6m5jtrxazpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407692793-t1mh90q3z7zvsvwlcjg4msqbyxcbp2opw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407749343-8o8k32upj0d7fx8cyn0vfaqk8cjcdtapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407752332-54bx2o5xs25tb62vyxbgjkiy70tjcd9pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1407754320-prih16dmdau9gnjkfar7n8152gtrutjpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1408375909
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1408378603
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1408381622
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1408383044
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1409541694-2n8ofdp5ofm85vt1jgdtkl14256kkwzpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1409546575
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1409550006
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1409552808
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410266002
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410271188
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410274336
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410412686
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410415018
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410416910
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410422091
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1410425059
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1403695215-z78rcf6zdt3hcp61rh1vwvyfqy5hjz8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1403697475-ssmhk6w8gu4fa3yxrh8ot93tsu6kwoppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1403700821-5hh5lpsiehrx81bytzr0w4e5syhlwnxpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405658691-q0k024o3s12fr0ua5s3zhr060hsw7n1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405659996-nmn1sl07fya247h0hmq0efqfi4257wlpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405662275-npv4mkowj32iio6tsxv6ey2kugjm15ipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405664794-jbody8td76fij5gbcd62qfk03260yo7pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405668214-80ytnbnslp75ds52w74wqh90f11yksnpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405846046-ffdmy81cpo73zyitrbzwjzdszpa7bv9pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405848856-06gfabzrjkvd5lln27vcwhu5h04gag5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405850470-kwxi66ogg0m0eelc1kc70rr21a7pdx7pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405853725-fv6guhputu2swjwm0ztjfdgicd5pqcmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1405858518-7773n1lgaa3dese8krkkx06o55tqtdbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1407731132-uanou2wglk1t0rll9jv5m29gw8sxbc8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1407734426-73lpfll0hh6i0t5fhavymi1ssqte9kgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1407737196-6vd2fpfjek2zrq6kj9vxkrjkr4rzqvfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1407742263-iycqb8006i5y3ges1frfpsm3mxe3gbtpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410231223
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410233262
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410238584
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410240950
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410243391
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410251393
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410253456
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410256104
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1410257587
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1407765077
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1407768502
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1407771633
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409371889-uwg9jpjm1dkrtsnn9y9739m9mbdgyk5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409373737-vqto6yj3ex0f0khvv0h1otixbrnjkh0pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409376670-389xch7b5u0wkh05tvadtrr74vzz6dbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409379948-sv47n5fyziagilf40ikae3ngqpyki6bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409642496-iuyx41rannaeo0k3e4vu7iu981s6wwupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409644316-okr7s8ez9ttwxklrh4joaee7vwvm1m7pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409646186-e810p2yvudafsrb37yke3m95ovuu3i1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1409650143-if3zzh2jm8u4w9f3ilkjc6deaj0vpd8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410390096
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410393216
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410394827
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410396125
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410982922
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410985407
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410987190
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410987811
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410989505
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410990061
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410991373
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410991508
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1410993764

Semifinals:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1414437610
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1414440666
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1414442779
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1414444808
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1414448873
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1415508462
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1415512221
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1415515018
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1415517369
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1415520368
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1412988000-1klww58vp0r9rnzdr0mefwxina21gy6pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1412991546
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1412995711
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1414805752
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1414807848-fmtzlgmgcot1smbgd826uj55lblozvnpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1414810212-ovn8mttvjvqndb7dp2vefsxsteq1k78pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1414813946
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1414820851
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1419707816
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1419710421
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1419711743
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1414795396-ktubhohrj8kh1g3rjt7s18t7h1swkw4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1414797170-8idubybkhdnjucfnvtgbok1nvvn6elepw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1414798831-dbs1il5has1sto25vq019w2vzdprudkpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1414801219-bdlnvjhcn01552qk4gugul9u06ipxhcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1415438313
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1415439696
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1415442718
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1415445013
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1415446742
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1418804829-m92k3kbd5m98tx87l8hemc5ae0ozrjvpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1418807768-bz45tz0fk8e0spety8zcqbisfge6etspw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1418815741-cbkz941j8uwho7mc30x7bqysmpzrmk3pw

Finals:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1423569811-vue52s061waxohqg328vwegwi1c4tvcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1423572028-1flyfdgttbh58xd5yi094it9pdxi208pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1423574644-0dd23gpr47mnrp81whpr0ofe2u4px92pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5doublesou-1423576525
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1424315862
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1424318865
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6doublesou-1424324292
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1424415575
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1424418665
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1424420352
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1424423232
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-1424426185

[Gen 5] 2v2 Doubles:

Usage Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Kyurem-Black       |   35 |  47.30% |  54.29% |
| 2    | Thundurus          |   23 |  31.08% |  60.87% |
| 2    | Scrafty            |   23 |  31.08% |  47.83% |
| 4    | Metagross          |   21 |  28.38% |  61.90% |
| 4    | Infernape          |   21 |  28.38% |  52.38% |
| 6    | Tornadus           |   15 |  20.27% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Genesect           |   12 |  16.22% |  66.67% |
| 8    | Latios             |   11 |  14.86% |  54.55% |
| 9    | Victini            |   10 |  13.51% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Thundurus-Therian  |    9 |  12.16% |  66.67% |
| 10   | Togekiss           |    9 |  12.16% |  55.56% |
| 12   | Deoxys-Defense     |    7 |   9.46% |  57.14% |
| 12   | Politoed           |    7 |   9.46% |  42.86% |
| 12   | Terrakion          |    7 |   9.46% |  42.86% |
| 15   | Mew                |    6 |   8.11% |  50.00% |
| 16   | Deoxys-Attack      |    5 |   6.76% |  20.00% |
| 17   | Darkrai            |    4 |   5.41% |  75.00% |
| 17   | Keldeo             |    4 |   5.41% |  75.00% |
| 17   | Kabutops           |    4 |   5.41% |  75.00% |
| 17   | Jellicent          |    4 |   5.41% |  75.00% |
| 17   | Hariyama           |    4 |   5.41% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Chandelure         |    4 |   5.41% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Heatran            |    3 |   4.05% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Archeops           |    3 |   4.05% |  33.33% |
| 23   | Bronzong           |    3 |   4.05% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Sableye            |    3 |   4.05% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Gastrodon          |    2 |   2.70% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Conkeldurr         |    2 |   2.70% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Aerodactyl         |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Lucario            |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Liepard            |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Alakazam           |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Tyranitar          |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Gyarados           |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Ferrothorn         |    2 |   2.70% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Amoonguss          |    2 |   2.70% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Shaymin-Sky        |    2 |   2.70% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Volcarona          |    2 |   2.70% |   0.00% |
| 27   | Golduck            |    2 |   2.70% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Snorlax            |    1 |   1.35% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Excadrill          |    1 |   1.35% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Manaphy            |    1 |   1.35% | 100.00% |
| 40   | Porygon2           |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Blaziken           |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Rotom-Wash         |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Garchomp           |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Blastoise          |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Weavile            |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Ninetales          |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Venusaur           |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Hitmontop          |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |
| 40   | Mamoswine          |    1 |   1.35% |   0.00% |

[Gen 6] 2v2 Doubles

Usage Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Deoxys-Attack      |   17 |  21.25% |  52.94% |
| 2    | Talonflame         |   13 |  16.25% |  53.85% |
| 2    | Kyurem-Black       |   13 |  16.25% |  53.85% |
| 2    | Mawile             |   13 |  16.25% |  30.77% |
| 5    | Volcanion          |   12 |  15.00% |  58.33% |
| 5    | Charizard          |   12 |  15.00% |  41.67% |
| 7    | Landorus           |   11 |  13.75% |  36.36% |
| 8    | Lopunny            |   10 |  12.50% |  70.00% |
| 8    | Victini            |   10 |  12.50% |  60.00% |
| 8    | Scrafty            |   10 |  12.50% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Terrakion          |    9 |  11.25% |  55.56% |
| 11   | Shaymin-Sky        |    9 |  11.25% |  33.33% |
| 13   | Gyarados           |    8 |  10.00% |  75.00% |
| 13   | Genesect           |    8 |  10.00% |  62.50% |
| 13   | Volcarona          |    8 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 13   | Blastoise          |    8 |  10.00% |  37.50% |
| 17   | Keldeo             |    7 |   8.75% |  57.14% |
| 17   | Togekiss           |    7 |   8.75% |  42.86% |
| 17   | Amoonguss          |    7 |   8.75% |  28.57% |
| 17   | Cresselia          |    7 |   8.75% |   0.00% |
| 21   | Clefairy           |    6 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Heatran            |    6 |   7.50% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Zapdos             |    6 |   7.50% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Tyranitar          |    6 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Azumarill          |    5 |   6.25% |  40.00% |
| 25   | Diancie            |    5 |   6.25% |  20.00% |
| 27   | Garchomp           |    4 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 27   | Suicune            |    4 |   5.00% |  75.00% |
| 27   | Venusaur           |    4 |   5.00% |  75.00% |
| 27   | Latias             |    4 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Blaziken           |    4 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    4 |   5.00% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Scizor             |    4 |   5.00% |  25.00% |
| 27   | Rhyperior          |    4 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Sylveon            |    3 |   3.75% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Ferrothorn         |    3 |   3.75% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Metagross          |    2 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Glalie             |    2 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 37   | Gengar             |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Landorus-Therian   |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Electabuzz         |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Whimsicott         |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Banette            |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Rotom-Heat         |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Aegislash          |    2 |   2.50% |  50.00% |
| 37   | Deoxys             |    2 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 37   | Hariyama           |    2 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Audino             |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Pachirisu          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Furret             |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Altaria            |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Darkrai            |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Ludicolo           |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Porygon-Z          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Latios             |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Greninja           |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Thundurus          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Arcanine           |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Maractus           |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Manectric          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Mew                |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Swampert           |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Jellicent          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Sableye            |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Infernape          |    1 |   1.25% | 100.00% |
| 48   | Aerodactyl         |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Thundurus-Therian  |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Aggron             |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Excadrill          |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Heracross          |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Magmar             |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Rotom-Wash         |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Bisharp            |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |
| 48   | Weavile            |    1 |   1.25% |   0.00% |

[Gen 7] 2v2 Doubles

Usage Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Metagross          |   30 |  36.59% |  56.67% |
| 2    | Incineroar         |   20 |  24.39% |  55.00% |
| 2    | Kyurem-Black       |   20 |  24.39% |  30.00% |
| 4    | Tapu Fini          |   19 |  23.17% |  57.89% |
| 5    | Genesect           |   17 |  20.73% |  41.18% |
| 6    | Landorus-Therian   |   14 |  17.07% |  64.29% |
| 7    | Charizard          |   12 |  14.63% |  41.67% |
| 8    | Volcanion          |   10 |  12.20% |  50.00% |
| 8    | Tapu Bulu          |   10 |  12.20% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Zygarde            |    9 |  10.98% |  44.44% |
| 10   | Hoopa-Unbound      |    9 |  10.98% |  44.44% |
| 12   | Deoxys-Attack      |    8 |   9.76% |  50.00% |
| 12   | Zeraora            |    8 |   9.76% |  25.00% |
| 14   | Clefairy           |    7 |   8.54% |  85.71% |
| 14   | Landorus           |    7 |   8.54% |  57.14% |
| 14   | Togekiss           |    7 |   8.54% |  42.86% |
| 14   | Terrakion          |    7 |   8.54% |  42.86% |
| 18   | Volcarona          |    6 |   7.32% |  66.67% |
| 18   | Naganadel          |    6 |   7.32% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Gyarados           |    6 |   7.32% |  50.00% |
| 18   | Tapu Koko          |    6 |   7.32% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Manectric          |    5 |   6.10% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Victini            |    5 |   6.10% |  40.00% |
| 22   | Tyranitar          |    5 |   6.10% |  20.00% |
| 25   | Mew                |    4 |   4.88% | 100.00% |
| 25   | Lopunny            |    4 |   4.88% | 100.00% |
| 25   | Porygon2           |    4 |   4.88% |  75.00% |
| 25   | Mawile             |    4 |   4.88% |  75.00% |
| 29   | Entei              |    3 |   3.66% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Diancie            |    3 |   3.66% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Chansey            |    3 |   3.66% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Sceptile           |    3 |   3.66% |  66.67% |
| 29   | Amoonguss          |    3 |   3.66% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Heatran            |    3 |   3.66% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Latias             |    3 |   3.66% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Zapdos             |    3 |   3.66% |  33.33% |
| 29   | Swampert           |    3 |   3.66% |   0.00% |
| 38   | Venusaur           |    2 |   2.44% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Salamence          |    2 |   2.44% | 100.00% |
| 38   | Camerupt           |    2 |   2.44% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Milotic            |    2 |   2.44% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Suicune            |    2 |   2.44% |  50.00% |
| 38   | Necrozma           |    2 |   2.44% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Snorlax            |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Mimikyu            |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Celesteela         |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Stakataka          |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Purugly            |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Cresselia          |    1 |   1.22% | 100.00% |
| 44   | Greninja           |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Scrafty            |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Politoed           |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Infernape          |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Pinsir             |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Raichu             |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Excadrill          |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Heracross          |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Swoobat            |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Ribombee           |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Blastoise          |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Houndoom           |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
| 44   | Mienshao           |    1 |   1.22% |   0.00% |
 

Itchy

live a villain, die an icon
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
So uh this post might seem out of the blue, but I made a personal VR for BW 2v2 when I was eliminated from Pool League, and I wanted to share it, especially since BW council didn't do shifts after Pool League. These votes more accurately capture the state of the metagame than my votes when I was first added to the council (I had interesting views on what was viable). I'd love it if the other current BW councilmembers (D2TheW turtalkatthing pqs) also shared their thoughts :blobnom:

S
Kyurem-Black :kyurem-black:
Metagross :metagross:
Scrafty :scrafty:

S-
Latios :latios:
Thundurus-Incarnate :thundurus:
Tornadus-Incarnate :tornadus:

A+
Genesect :genesect:
Infernape :infernape:

A
Shaymin-Sky :shaymin-sky:
Togekiss :togekiss:
Tyranitar :tyranitar:
Victini :victini:

A-
Deoxys-Attack :deoxys-attack:
Keldeo :keldeo-resolute:
Jellicent :jellicent:
Volcarona :volcarona:

B+
Amoonguss :amoonguss:
Terrakion :terrakion:
Thundurus-Therian :thundurus-therian:

B
Excadrill :excadrill:
Mew :mew:

B-
Chandelure :chandelure:
Darkrai :darkrai:
Gastrodon :gastrodon-east:
Hariyama :hariyama:

C+
Archeops :archeops:
Deoxys-Defense :deoxys-defense:
Ferrothorn :ferrothorn:
Kabutops :kabutops:
Ludicolo :ludicolo:
Ninetales :ninetales:
Politoed :politoed:
Porygon2 :porygon2:
Rotom-Heat :rotom-heat:
Snorlax :snorlax:
Venusaur :venusaur:

C
Heatran :heatran:
Rotom-Wash :rotom-wash:
Suicune :suicune:
Weavile :weavile:

C-
Aerodactyl :aerodactyl:
Armaldo :armaldo:
Cresselia :cresselia:
Lucario :lucario:

At this point, I thought things were way past what I would consider using on a team, so I just removed D-Rank entirely and unranked a good 12 to 15 mons '-'. BW 2v2 is just- so centralized, even C- felt like too much of a stretch, and D-Rank was impossible to distinguish from C-.

S= 12
Kyurem-BlackS
LatiosS-
S-= 11
MetagrossS
ThundurusS-
ScraftyS
A+= 10
InfernapeA+
TornadusS-
A= 9
GenesectA+
JellicentA-
Shaymin-SkyA
TyranitarA
A-= 8
KeldeoA-
TogekissA
VictiniA
VolcaronaA-
B+= 7
CresseliaC-
HeatranC
HitmontopUR
LatiasUR
TerrakionB+
B= 6
AmoongussB+
ChandelureB-
DarkraiB-
Deoxys-AttackA-
ExcadrillB
FerrothornC+
GastrodonB-
MamoswineUR
PolitoedB-
CB-
B-= 5
BlazikenUR
HariyamaB-
Landorus-TherianC+
LudicoloC+
ManaphyUR
MewB
Rotom-WashC
SnorlaxC+
Thundurus-TherianB+
WeavileC
C+= 4
ScizorUR
C= 3
ConkeldurrUR
KabutopsC+
NinetalesC+
SalamenceUR
ZapdosUR
C-= 2
AerodactylC-
BlastoiseUR
HydreigonUR
LiepardD
GyaradosUR
TogeticUR
AlakazamD
BreloomUR
LandorusUR
VenusaurC+
D= 1
ArcheopsC+
BronzongD
Deoxys-DefenseC+
HippowdonUR
LucarioC-
MeloettaUR
Porygon2C+
Porygon-ZUR
UR= 0
AbomasnowUR
AmbipomUR
ArcanineUR
ArmaldoC-
BisharpUR
BraviaryUR
ChanseyUR
CharizardUR
ClefairyUR
DarmanitanUR
DeoxysUR
Deoxys-SUR
DragoniteUR
GarchompUR
GengarUR
HeracrossUR
KrookodileUR
KyuremC+
NidokingUR
ReuniclusUR
Rotom-HeatC+
SableyeUR
StaraptorUR
Tornadus-TherianUR
ToxicroakUR
WhimsicottUR
RhyperiorUR

As for the state of BW 2v2, it's actually quite balanced, idt anything is broken to the point of warranting a suspect. I used to say Thundurus-Incarnate was but that was a stupid take. TWave is a stupid move, yes, but it's not actually that impactful haxwise - the 1/4 speed is the far more important aspect. KyuB is actually fine, with Scrafty, Metagross, Genesect and Latios to an extent all being great checks that fit on a variety of teams. If anything, I think Metagross and Scrafty are better than KyuB tbh!
 
Last edited:
hey whats up gonna dump some teams here since classic just ended for that sweet sweet metagame development™. i didn't use original stuff the entire run but i'll share what i did make and some thoughts on mons viability

SM
:shaymin-sky: :blastoise-mega: :incineroar: :mawile-mega:

this is a pretty simple team i made cause i wanted to try out mega blastoise in sm, which evolved into a fwg core with a mawile tacked on the end. i added shaymin second to provide tailwind support for blastoise's spammable water spouts and to handle opposing grasses like amoonguss that sit in front of blastoise endlessly with air slash. i rounded the core out with incin because intimidate + fake out is always good to have and i needed a check for scarf gene which otherwise has a great mu into this team. i added mawile as a 4th to beat hoopa, kyub, and other miscellaneous dragons that fwg tends to struggle with. unfortunately i didnt realize until finals that this team has a horrible weakness to volcanion that Lancer was able to exploit, but other than that it's been solid.
here's a replay of semis vs adam3560 where tailwind water spout blows up a team with no water resists and here's a replay of finals where Lancer exploits volcanion's pressure on preview and i click rock slide maw to nab the ko on it after fake out + sucker, and lose without it ever coming out.

:lopunny-mega: :crustle: :tapu-bulu: :volcarona:

i wanted to built a team around letting lopunny enable a set-up sweeper with fake out + encore, and settled on crustle because its passable base attack, shell smash, and sturdy make for a really strong combo on paper. over the course of testing this team in friendlies i also realized that lopunny is absurdly good, definitely deserving higher than B imo. being the second fastest fake out user in the tier is nice but the addition of encore lets it really capitalize on its speed, essentially forcing your opponent to eat the fake out + whatever move from your second mon or get encored into protect for the rest of the match. this is especially potent in SM where a lot of turn 1s start with 2 mons clicking fake out, and being encored into fake out is equally as crippling. i added scarf bulu as a 3rd to nuke waters before they have the chance to touch crustle and provide grassy terrain support, which will usually let crustle heal back to full health if its prevented from shell smashing by fake out, reactivating sturdy. volcarona was the 4th to compress a redirector and a metagross and mawile check into one slot, which otherwise run all over this team.
here's the only game where i got to use this team, which was in semis vs adam3560. everything works perfectly with lopunny crippling the opposing fake out user with encore and (the opposing) grassy terrain healing crustle to full health, letting it set up and rain rocks.

:tapu-bulu: :heracross-mega: :mew: :volcanion:

the point of this team was to use mew as an ambiguous support, and by surrounding it with hard hitting, middling speed offensive mons it's not clear if mew is going to set trick room, tailwind, or spam ally switch/helping hand and be fake out support. i realize that by sharing the team it kind of defeats the purpose but it's already seen tournament usage so it doesn't really matter lmao. mew takes advantage of the opponents expectations of it being fake out by assuming it wont be targeted by your opponents fake out to get up a reliable trick room, and uses calm mind + roost for offensive pressure and longevity. mega heracross was my first choice for a partner because it's a very nice click into Lancer's (who this team was built for) usage of mega gyarados, p2, mega lopunny, and volcanion (with skill link rock blast), and outspeeds them all under trick room. bulu was chosen as a partner to shut down opposing support with taunt and nuking neutral targets with SM terrain wood hammers. volcanion rounds the team out as a metagross/mawile check (noticing a pattern) and a general fire check, though the team really doesn't struggle all that much with fires anyway.
here's a replay of the team in action in finals vs Lancer. his metagross protects knowing he cant ohko volcanion with it and that volcanion will ohko it, expecting his koko to get flinched with fake out. mew sets up trick room, volcanion blows up metagross, and mew uses cm to 1v1 the koko.

ORAS
:charizard-mega-y: :venusaur: :togekiss: :conkeldurr:

this one is a pretty standard zard-y venu sun, zard sets sun and melts things with heat wave and venu puts stuff to sleep with >500 speed and stomps the rocks and waters that zard hates with energy ball. kiss and conk exist sort of as their own separate half of the team, you're likely only ever clicking zard + venu or kiss + conk, though venu can take advantage of tailwind support from kiss in matchups where zard is an 0-4 pick. the idea behind conkeldurr and togekiss was to win the mirror vs opposing sun teams by setting up tailwind and letting conk throw out sheer force rock slides and ice punches, while kiss draws sleep powder to itself with follow me. coba berry on conk allows it to click wide guard to block heat wave without fear of being ohkod by air slash and acts as a talonflame lure which the rest of the team struggles to touch. it only carries mach punch as fighting stab because zard and venu handle steels and rocks pretty well respectively, and conk wants priority more than it wants the team to have a slightly better kyub matchup.
here's the only game this team got used, in finals vs Lancer. i knew that the sun goons had a great matchup here provided i could stick the snorlax with a sleep powder, and it worked out.

:infernape: :gyarados-mega: :shaymin-sky: :thundurus:

this was an early team i built that i never ended up using in playoffs (thanks to the goat support from my femboys) but the general idea was using infernape as a budget lopunny to enable gyarados to set up and hit hard with dragon dance. i went with infernape over lopunny here for a better matchup into grasses that gyarados can't really touch and because infernape does everything lopunny does without taking a mega slot, albeit while sacrificing speed. shaymin rounds out the fwg core with its staple tailwind support and water-beating, along with some special bulk that i genuinely cannot remember the purpose of because i never used this team but i'm gonna need you to trust me there was an important reason for it. thundurus is a cool 4th for not losing to volcanion, stallbreaking, and using charge to eat a zard-y overheat in sun to save the teams sun matchup (looking back on these i seemed weirdly overconcerned about my sun matchups). anyway the team seemed good in testing but i can't make any concrete comments because it was never brought to a playoffs game, i do think charge thundurus is funny though.

BW

:tyranitar: :excadrill: :thundurus: :infernape:

one of my favorite teams i made this tour, this started out because i noticed excadrill sand has a really good matchup into all of the S ranks minus scrafty, as well as a large chunk of the A tiers. i added thundurus as a third initially to check bulky waters like jellicent, keldeo, and suicune as well as scrafty, though as the team evolved ttar became a passable jellicent check too. infernape was chosen as the 4th because i can't build a team without fake out and Lancer, who i built this for, had a surprising amount of ferrothorn usage. after i finished the 1st draft of the team, i watched some of Lancer's BW replays in his semis match and noticed he liked to use a lot of landorus and dragonite, so i dropped stone edge on ttar and slotted ice beam instead, along with enough sp. atk to guarantee the ohko on max hp landorus-t. i also made sure it bulked a lorb dragonite superpower with chople. the team ended up becoming pretty c-teamy but i find it super fun to play with, something about sand just feels really good in bw, im honestly surprised i haven't seen it as much.
here's the replay of the team in action, doing everything literally perfectly, and d2 even dm'ed me after saying "i cannot believe that worked out exactly how you said it would".

:infernape: :crustle: :shaymin-sky: :metagross:

this was another creation from around the same time i made the SM lopunny-crustle team, just translated into BW. infernape is just fire type lopunny, and in BW there isn't another option for a fake out + encore user anyway, so it was a natural partner. quick guard was chosen over fighting stab to protect crustle's potential sweep from ending prematurely to a metagross bullet punch, but close combat could be used if you're worried about heatran. crustle comes strapped with a rock gem this time, to blow stuff up harder if it's able to get a shell smash off. shaymin was a natural third as an alternative method of making crustle fast and providing crucial support in blowing up the bulky waters that are much more prevalent here than in SM. i chose metagross as the 4th for the team because despite having a bug type on the team, this team struggled with a scrafty + latios click, so i needed something to resist anything latios could throw at it. metagross provides that and priority, along with an additional method of beating keldeo with zen headbutt. im gonna be honest, this team is not as good as my attempt at enabling crustle in SM. infernape hates both being slower than and losing to latios, but the encore support is so crucial outside that matchup it's not really worth it to use scrafty. it's usable but definitely not the same level of quality as the other teams i've built, and that's the reason i didn't bring it in finals.
despite spending the second half of that description dumping on the team, it did get a couple wins. here's a replay in my BW series vs adam3560 in semis of bulky infernape living kyu-b with health to spare and shaymin doing what it does best and being lucky. here's another replay of that same series where shaymin once again bailed a bad matchup with serene grace.

:scrafty: :latios: :aerodactyl: :volcarona:

this is probably my favorite team i built all tour, and it's honestly what sort of solidified scrafty as the best mon in BW in my opinion. this team takes advantage of your opponent wanting to protect on scraftys fake out to not get nuked by its partner latios by slotting dragon dance on scrafty. the speed lets it outspeed kyu-b after a dragon dance and the fighting gem allows it to ohko bulky metagross with a helping hand boost from latios and muscle through opposing chople scrafty with some chip. on top of that, it still viably runs fake out for matchups where you need one mon on the opponents side to not have a turn. i chose aerodactyl as a 3rd to handle genies that scrafty hates and because BW sky drop is absurd. volcarona was the perfect 4th as a backup metagross check and a latios check, eating a dragon gem draco meteor and ohkoing back with a bug gem bug buzz that even has a chance to ohko after a calm mind boost. like the sand team, this one just feels so fun to play and watching everything on the field click protect as you get a dragon dance up for free is incredibly satisfying.
i've got two replays with this team, both showing off the scrafty set. here in this game from my BW series with adam3560 scrafty does its regular scrafty stuff and fakes out the opposing aerodactyl, letting my own secure two ko's. and here, in the final game of my BW series with Lancer in finals, scrafty takes advantage of dragonite's fear of getting hit with fake out + draco meteor to set up and outspeed it the next turn to clean up after latios drops a draco on it.

so yeah these were a couple of the teams i built for classic playoffs, and i think it'd be pretty cool if some other playoffs players wanted to drop a couple teams to revive the thread and do some metagame development™ :]

-blanched out
 
Last edited:

IBM

Banned deucer.
2v2 Classic II usage stats

:incineroar::tapu fini: SM :kyurem-black::metagross-mega:
Pokemon
Usage​
Usage %​
Win %
Incineroar​
32​
25.00%​
59.38%​
Tapu Fini​
29​
22.66%​
51.72%​
Kyurem-Black​
28​
21.88%​
53.57%​
Metagross​
25​
19.53%​
56.00%​
Genesect​
18​
14.06%​
66.67%​
Lopunny​
18​
14.06%​
38.89%​
Mawile​
17​
13.28%​
29.41%​
Landorus-Therian​
14​
10.94%​
57.14%​
Tapu Bulu​
14​
10.94%​
50.00%​
Victini​
14​
10.94%​
50.00%​
Charizard​
13​
10.16%​
46.15%​
Tapu Koko​
11​
8.59%​
63.64%​
Scrafty​
11​
8.59%​
54.55%​
Volcarona​
11​
8.59%​
54.55%​
Hoopa-Unbound​
11​
8.59%​
54.55%​
:zeraora:
Zeraora​
11​
8.59%​
36.36%​
Amoonguss​
11​
8.59%​
27.27%​
Zygarde​
11​
8.59%​
27.27%​
Mew​
10​
7.81%​
50.00%​
Volcanion​
10​
7.81%​
50.00%​
Togekiss​
10​
7.81%​
30.00%​
Porygon2​
9​
7.03%​
66.67%​
Swampert​
9​
7.03%​
55.56%​
Camerupt​
9​
7.03%​
44.44%​
Landorus​
8​
6.25%​
50.00%​
Terrakion​
7​
5.47%​
71.43%​
Gyarados​
7​
5.47%​
57.14%​
:shaymin-sky:
Shaymin-Sky​
7​
5.47%​
42.86%​
Tyranitar​
7​
5.47%​
14.29%​
:naganadel:
Naganadel​
6​
4.69%​
83.33%​
Ninetales-Alola​
6​
4.69%​
66.67%​
Diancie​
6​
4.69%​
66.67%​
Lucario​
5​
3.91%​
80.00%​
Latias​
5​
3.91%​
80.00%​
Heatran​
5​
3.91%​
40.00%​
Kartana​
5​
3.91%​
40.00%​
Blaziken​
4​
3.12%​
75.00%​
Venusaur​
4​
3.12%​
50.00%​
Rotom-Wash​
4​
3.12%​
25.00%​
Excadrill​
4​
3.12%​
0.00%​
Sceptile​
3​
2.34%​
66.67%​
Suicune​
3​
2.34%​
33.33%​
Blastoise​
3​
2.34%​
33.33%​
Clefairy​
3​
2.34%​
33.33%​
Zapdos​
3​
2.34%​
33.33%​
Chansey​
3​
2.34%​
0.00%​
Cresselia​
3​
2.34%​
0.00%​
Oranguru​
3​
2.34%​
0.00%​
Slowbro​
2​
1.56%​
100.00%​
Hariyama​
2​
1.56%​
100.00%​
Snorlax​
2​
1.56%​
100.00%​
Milotic​
2​
1.56%​
100.00%​
Medicham​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
Entei​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
Manectric​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
Togetic​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
Mimikyu​
2​
1.56%​
50.00%​
Politoed​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Crustle​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Heracross​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Braviary​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Hawlucha​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Aegislash​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Darkrai​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Ferrothorn​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Nihilego​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
Salamence​
1​
0.78%​
100.00%​
:stakataka:
Stakataka​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Purugly​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Necrozma​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Greninja​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Ribombee​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Primarina​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Celesteela​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Garchomp​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Hitmontop​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Sawk​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Abomasnow​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
Rotom-Heat​
1​
0.78%​
0.00%​
:togekiss::kyurem-black: ORAS :Deoxys-attack::Venusaur:
Pokemon​
Usage​
Usage %​
Win %​
Togekiss​
9​
25.00%​
77.78%​
Kyurem-Black​
8​
22.22%​
37.50%​
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack​
7​
19.44%​
57.14%​
Venusaur​
6​
16.67%​
66.67%​
:shaymin-sky:
Shaymin-Sky​
6​
16.67%​
50.00%​
Tyranitar​
6​
16.67%​
33.33%​
Charizard​
5​
13.89%​
80.00%​
Infernape​
5​
13.89%​
40.00%​
Lopunny​
5​
13.89%​
40.00%​
Talonflame​
4​
11.11%​
75.00%​
Gyarados​
4​
11.11%​
50.00%​
Terrakion​
4​
11.11%​
50.00%​
Volcarona​
4​
11.11%​
50.00%​
Excadrill​
4​
11.11%​
25.00%​
Mawile​
4​
11.11%​
25.00%​
Hoopa-Unbound​
4​
11.11%​
25.00%​
Swampert​
3​
8.33%​
66.67%​
Lucario​
3​
8.33%​
66.67%​
Lickilicky​
3​
8.33%​
66.67%​
Landorus-Therian​
3​
8.33%​
66.67%​
Metagross​
3​
8.33%​
66.67%​
Suicune​
3​
8.33%​
33.33%​
Landorus​
3​
8.33%​
33.33%​
Diancie​
3​
8.33%​
33.33%​
Victini​
3​
8.33%​
33.33%​
Mew​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Politoed​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Genesect​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Azumarill​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Snorlax​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Clefable​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Keldeo​
2​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Volcanion​
2​
5.56%​
0.00%​
Rotom-Wash​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Blastoise​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Breloom​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Blaziken​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Thundurus​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Conkeldurr​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
:deoxys-defense:
Deoxys-Defense​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Amoonguss​
1​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Latias​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Sylveon​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Banette​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Whimsicott​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Aegislash​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Chandelure​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Greninja​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Altaria​
1​
2.78%​
0.00%​
:kyurem-black::infernape: BW :thundurus::metagross:
Pokemon​
Usage​
Usage %​
Win %​
Kyurem-Black​
45​
41.67%​
46.67%​
Infernape​
26​
24.07%​
57.69%​
Thundurus​
26​
24.07%​
53.85%​
Metagross​
26​
24.07%​
46.15%​
Scrafty​
25​
23.15%​
56.00%​
Latios​
21​
19.44%​
57.14%​
Tornadus​
19​
17.59%​
68.42%​
Genesect​
15​
13.89%​
40.00%​
Politoed​
12​
11.11%​
66.67%​
Volcarona​
12​
11.11%​
58.33%​
Victini​
11​
10.19%​
45.45%​
Jellicent​
10​
9.26%​
60.00%​
Togekiss​
9​
8.33%​
55.56%​
Aerodactyl​
9​
8.33%​
55.56%​
Keldeo​
9​
8.33%​
33.33%​
Cresselia​
8​
7.41%​
37.50%​
Terrakion​
8​
7.41%​
37.50%​
Chandelure​
7​
6.48%​
42.86%​
:deoxys-defense:
Deoxys-Defense​
6​
5.56%​
66.67%​
Kabutops​
6​
5.56%​
66.67%​
Thundurus-Therian​
6​
5.56%​
50.00%​
Darkrai​
6​
5.56%​
33.33%​
Landorus-Therian​
6​
5.56%​
33.33%​
:deoxys-attack:
Deoxys-Attack​
6​
5.56%​
16.67%​
Hariyama​
5​
4.63%​
80.00%​
:shaymin-sky:
Shaymin-Sky​
5​
4.63%​
60.00%​
Zapdos​
5​
4.63%​
60.00%​
Mew​
5​
4.63%​
40.00%​
Blaziken​
5​
4.63%​
40.00%​
Alakazam​
5​
4.63%​
20.00%​
Dragonite​
5​
4.63%​
0.00%​
Weavile​
4​
3.70%​
75.00%​
Tyranitar​
4​
3.70%​
50.00%​
Heatran​
4​
3.70%​
50.00%​
Ferrothorn​
4​
3.70%​
0.00%​
Snorlax​
3​
2.78%​
100.00%​
Ludicolo​
3​
2.78%​
66.67%​
Garchomp​
3​
2.78%​
33.33%​
Tornadus-Therian​
3​
2.78%​
33.33%​
Amoonguss​
3​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Liepard​
3​
2.78%​
0.00%​
Scizor​
2​
1.85%​
100.00%​
Hydreigon​
2​
1.85%​
100.00%​
Crustle​
2​
1.85%​
100.00%​
Mamoswine​
2​
1.85%​
50.00%​
Gardevoir​
2​
1.85%​
50.00%​
Rhyperior​
2​
1.85%​
50.00%​
:meloetta:
Meloetta​
2​
1.85%​
50.00%​
Ninetales​
2​
1.85%​
0.00%​
Venusaur​
2​
1.85%​
0.00%​
Blastoise​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Clefairy​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Abomasnow​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Rotom-Frost​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Lucario​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Excadrill​
1​
0.93%​
100.00%​
Rotom-Wash​
1​
0.93%​
0.00%​
Gallade​
1​
0.93%​
0.00%​
Gastrodon​
1​
0.93%​
0.00%​
Rotom-Mow​
1​
0.93%​
0.00%​
Conkeldurr​
1​
0.93%​
0.00%​

Lol @ only 16 oras replays and kyub top 3 in every gen
 
Last edited:
SM doesn't seem to have a speed tier made here or in the old metagame thread so i thought i'd make one to help with building, hope this helps and i might do ORAS too at some point

Bold=Important Mon (A- or above)
*=A mon has the same speed in and out of mega form (for mons that are viable in either) (this turns out to only matter for venusaur)

27: Min Speed Stakataka
40: Min Speed Camerupt-Mega / Sableye-Mega
49: Min Speed Dusclops
58: Min Speed Amoonguss / Abomasnow-Mega
76: 0 Camerupt-Mega / Sableye-Mega
85: Min Speed Marowak-Alola
86: 0 Dusclops
94: Min Speed Mawile-Mega / Diancie / Azumarill / Hariyama / Aggron-Mega
96: 0 Amoonguss / Abomasnow-Mega
106: 0 Clefairy
112: Min Speed Incineroar / Porygon2 / Oranguru / Aegislash
116: 0 Speed Golisopod / Togetic
125: Min Speed Hypno
126: 0 Speed Marowak-Alola
136: 0 Mawile-Mega / Chansey / Diancie / Azumarill / Hariyama / Aggron-Mega
139: Min Speed Tapu Bulu / Heracross-Mega
143: Min Speed Heatran
144: Min Speed Blastoise-Mega
152: 0 Speed Scrafty
156: 0 Incineroar / Porygon2 / Oranguru / Primarina / Aegislash
157: Min Speed Cresselia
158: 0 Celesteela
166: 0 Pelipper
170: 0 Hypno
176: 0 Swampert-Mega / Volcanion
178: 0 Tyranitar-Mega
184: Min Speed Mew
186: 0 Tapu Bulu /
Banette-Mega / Heracross-Mega
190: 0 Heatran
192: 0 Blastoise-Mega
196: 0 Hoopa-U / Venusaur* / Altaria-Mega / Dragonite
198: 0 Gyarados-Mega
199: 252 Mawile-Mega /
Azumarill
206: 0 Suicune / Cresselia / Tapu Fini
218: 252+ Mawile-Mega / Azumarill / 0 Landorus-Therian
219: 252 Incineroar / Primarina
226: 0 Kyurem-Black / Zygarde / Arcanine
228: 0 Speed Mimikyu
236: 0 Charizard-Mega / Victini / Zapdos / Mew / Volcarona / Entei / Shaymin
239: 252 Swampert-Mega / Volcanion
240: 0 Garchomp
241: 252 Tyranitar-Mega
242: 252+ Celesteela
249: 252 Tapu Bulu / Banette-Mega / Heracross-Mega
253: 252 Heatran
255: 252 Blastoise-Mega
256: 0 Metagross-Mega / Latias-Mega / Latios-Mega / Diancie-Mega
259: 252 Hoopa-U / Venusaur* / Altaria-Mega / Dragonite
261: 252 Gyarados-Mega
262: 252+ Swampert-Mega / Volcanion
265: 252+ Tyranitar-Mega
268: 252 Whimsicott
269: 252 Suicune / Tapu Fini / Kingdra
273: 252+ Tapu Bulu / Banette-Mega / Heracross-Mega / Smeargle
275: 252 Excadrill
278: 252+ Heatran
280: 252+ Blastoise-Mega
281: 252 Landorus-Therian
284: 252+ Hoopa-U / Venusaur* / Altaria-Mega / Dragonite
287: 252+ Gyarados-Mega
289: 252 Kyurem-Black / Zygarde /
Arcanine
291: 252+ Xurkitree
294: +1 0 Altaria-Mega / +1 0 Dragonite
295: 252+ Suicune / Tapu Fini /Kingdra
296: 0 Tapu Koko
297: +1 0 Gyarados-Mega
299: 252 Victini / Zapdos / Mew /
Volcarona / Blaziken-Mega / Shaymin
302: 252+ Excadrill
309: 252+ Landorus-Therian
317: 252+ Kyurem-Black / Zygarde / Arcanine
319: 252 Metagross-Mega
320: 252+ Mimikyu
326: 252+ Genesect
328: 252+ Charizard-Mega / Victini / Zapdos / Mew / Volcarona / Medicham-Mega / Blaziken-Mega / Entei / Shaymin
335: 252 Hawlucha / 252+ Nihilego
339: 252+ Pinsir-Mega
344: 252+ Blacephalon
346: 252+ Terrakion
348: 252+ Kartana
350: 252+ Metagross-Mega / Latias-Mega / Latios-Mega / Diancie-Mega
352: 0 Swift Swim Swampert-Mega
353: 252 Shaymin-Sky / 252+ Thundurus
355: 252+ Lucario-Mega
359: 252 Tapu Koko / Gengar-Mega
364: 252+ Whimsicott
368: 252+ Hawlucha
375: 252+ Naganadel
377: 252+ Greninja
379: 252 Scarf Heatran
386: 252+ Talonflame
388: 252 Scarf Hoopa-U / 252+ Shaymin-Sky / +1 252 Altaria-Mega / +1 252 Dragonite
391: +1 252 Gyarados-Mega
396: 252+ Tapu Koko /
Gengar-Mega
405: 252+ Lopunny-Mega / Manectric-Mega
417: 252+ Scarf Heatran
421: 252 Scarf Landorus-Therian
423: 252+ Zeraora
426: 252+ Scarf Hoopa-U / +1 252+ Altaria-Mega / +1 252+ Dragonite
427: 252+ Sceptile-Mega
430: +1 252+ Gyarados-Mega
433: 252 Scarf Kyurem-Black
438: 252+ Deoxys-Attack /
Aerodactyl-Mega
445: 252 Scarf Genesect
448: 252 Scarf Victini / +1 252 Blaziken-Mega
454: 252 Scarf Garchomp
463: 252+ Scarf Landorus-Therian
475: 252+ Scarf Kyurem-Black
478: 252 Swift Swim Swampert-Mega
489: 252+ Scarf Genesect
492: 252+ Scarf Victini / +1 252+ Blaziken-Mega
499: 252+ Scarf Garchomp
514: 252 Scarf Greninja
516: 252+ Scarf Blacephalon
518: 252 Chlorophyll Venusaur
524: 252+ Swift Swim Swampert-Mega
538: 252 Swift Swim Kingdra
550: 252 Sand Rush Excadrill
565: 252+ Scarf Greninja
568: 252+ Chlorophyll Venusaur
590: 252+ Swift Swim Kingdra
604: 252+ Sand Rush Excadrill
670: 252 Unburden Hawlucha
736: 252+ Unburden Hawlucha
 
Raising the prospect of an ally switch ban in sm, I played a good amount of sm and watched some series previously and saw ally switch was pretty popular, it's practically impossible to predict against and very easy to abuse.

As you all know, ally switch was banned in oras right before pool league, which means sm is the one of two tiers(sm and bw) where ally switch is currently legal. Bw is a non-issue however, as only 9 fully evolved pokemon get ally switch in bw, compared to 89 who get the move in sm. I see many more advocates for the ban of ally switch than for keeping it in the tier, and I think a quick ban would be a necessary revitalization for the tier.
 

Morgan

Morgius Sweep
is a Pre-Contributor
Raising the prospect of an ally switch ban in sm, I played a good amount of sm and watched some series previously and saw ally switch was pretty popular, it's practically impossible to predict against and very easy to abuse.

As you all know, ally switch was banned in oras right before pool league, which means sm is the one of two tiers(sm and bw) where ally switch is currently legal. Bw is a non-issue however, as only 9 fully evolved pokemon get ally switch in bw, compared to 89 who get the move in sm. I see many more advocates for the ban of ally switch than for keeping it in the tier, and I think a quick ban would be a necessary revitalization for the tier.
In my opinion, Ally Switch is just redirection. The bigger problem is its users being good with redirection. Metagross in particular takes ally switch from a redirection move to an unhealthy meta game factor. Instead of banning Ally Switch, Mega Metagross should be banned. In addition to being incredibly strong bulky and fast all at the same time and being immune to intimidate, it has Ally Switch. With this Pokemon having so many viable options, having ally switch pushes it over the line. However, this doesn't mean I think Ally Switch should be banned. As I stated earlier, I see Ally Switch as just redirection that's more exploitable but on already good Pokemon. Ally Switch, unlike traditional redirection, can be predicted. You can still Ice Beam that Zygarde if the p2 clicks Ally Switch, unlike if they had a Clefairy use Follow Me.

TLDR: Ban Mega Metagross In SM, do not ban ally switch.
 
Metagross in particular takes ally switch from a redirection move to an unhealthy meta game factor. Instead of banning Ally Switch, Mega Metagross should be banned. In addition to being incredibly strong bulky and fast all at the same time and being immune to intimidate, it has Ally Switch.
If ally switch is what pushes mega-metagross over the edge into banworthy territory and has already been established as an unhealthy factor in every other metagame with viable abusers, why would you ban metagross and not ally switch? Aswitch is clearly the problem in SM and metagross isn't the only abuser. As for ally switch being a form of redirection like follow me, the difference between the two is in the viability of the mons that run it, similar to its suspect reasoning in SwSh. Your ranked options for follow me or rage powder in SM are amoonguss, volcarona, clefairy, togetic, and mega-blastoise, who, similarly to SwSh, hinge their viability off redirection. of these options, only one is above B+ tier, and that's amoonguss, who saw a whopping 27% winrate in 2v2 classic II. only volcarona saw a winrate above 50%, with the rest hovering around 30% (with the exception of togetic that was only brought twice). compare that to the abusers of ally switch, hoopa-unbound, mega-metagross, porygon2, mew, genesect, chansey, deoxys, and oranguru, who are viable with or without ally switch. additionally, most of them are much more offensively threatening than the abusers of follow me or rage powder and thus punish the player on the receiving end of a potential ally switch for an incorrect guess much harder than a follow me or rage powder user can. the point is that redirection is predictable and identifiable from preview, whereas ally switch isn't, and that predictability is what balances follow me and rage powder and makes ally switch an uncompetitive 50/50 machine.
 

IBM

Banned deucer.
I’d advocate for just an entire 2v2-wide ally switch ban, not just in SM but BW too.

Let’s look at the move first, you switch places with the partner mon but the opponents attacks still hit the same spot. It’s a pretty unique form of redirection, but what makes this more uncompetitive than follow me?

First of all, the fundamental differences between the two. Morgan already brought up how follow me causes both attacks to hit the same target and ally switch still lets you target different mons as a reason why ally switch is okay, but it actually makes it more of a problem because that means that the follow me user can be double targeted easily and taken out, while the ally switch user forces a 50/50 of guessing where it’s going to be, and usually ally switch users are bulky enough so that even if you predict correctly and hit it with a super effective move, it will most likely live and force another 50/50. With follow me you can always be sure when you are targeting the redirection user. You can never be sure with ally switch.

Let’s look at an example:
19374289-3620-4F25-8669-19513BCE85AA.jpeg

Adamant scarf hoopa + volcarona vs phys def bulu + mega metagross, mgross has rock slide and bulu has stone edge, volc only has heat wave.
The choices are simple:

- Hyperspace fury the metagross to kill and heat wave with volc, singles damage is enough for heat wave + hyperspace to kill bulu. This doesn’t work if metagross ally switches, because hyperspace + heat wave does not kill bulu with doubles damage, so it can kill volc then it or mgross will kill hoopa the next turn and you lose.
-Hyperspace the bulu spot predicting the ally switch, but if it doesn’t ally switch it just kills something and you lose

This is what we in the business call an ally switch moment

This matchup has become a 50/50 due to ally switch. If metagross had, say, follow me instead, it would be an easy choice because you can hyperspace the metagross without worrying about where it will be. Ally switch forces 50/50s in so many situations like this that simply don’t need to be considered with balanced redirection like follow me. The biggest problem with ally switch for me is that the ally switch user moves as well (you can probably tell at this point)

The second reason ally switch is unbalanced and follow me is not is the mons that both are on. This is touching a lot on what Blanched said. Ally switch users are much more offensive, follow me users are more passive and often used solely for redirection. This means in a game, you pretty much know that a follow me user will use follow me, while an ally switch user you have to worry about it not using ally switch and just attacking you, which is much more threatening than a follow me user attacking.

(It should be banned in bw too because I don’t want bw to be the lame gen where it’s legal)
 

Morgan

Morgius Sweep
is a Pre-Contributor
Ban A-Switch in SM yada yada

Free Zmoves.

Z moves were banned in SM 2v2 at a time where nobody actually played the metagame. It was something that you did twice a month in 1v1 roomtours or waited for 1v1PL to have 1 slot of. Z moves never had a fair shot to exist given the fact that A. Nobody played the metagame, B. Rumple was the only one who cared, and C. Rumple had an anti-Z move bias from the get go.

I don’t think Z moves would be too out of the realm of possibility for SM.
Out of the top 10 pokemon in SM Classic, it becomes apparent that defensive utility and bulk is what is most important in SM 2v2. Incineroar, Fini, Lando-T, Mawile, Bulu, Victini. SM 2v2 is significantly slower than SS 2v2 for a reason. The game revolves around Pokemon that are very hard to break.
Out of the top 4 pokemon, which are used significantly more than the ones below, 1 is a mega, 2 are defensive pokemon, and only 1 (KyuB) is a strong offensive pokemon that could run a Z-move.

In SM right now, the upper ranks of the VR are absolutely dominated by Offensive Mega Evolutions and defensive/support Pokemon.
Z moves would allow for offensive non-mega pokemon to get significantly more viability than they currently are allotted. At the moment, you essentially have 0 reason not to run Mega Mawile/Metagross + Incineroar on every team. Allowing for other options to break defensive Pokemon that aren’t just Mega Evolutions is good.

SM and ORAS at the moment are essentially identical metagames only differentiated by Tapu Koko and speed mechanics. Z moves were banned at a time where ORAS didn’t exist and nobody played 2v2 anyway.

Freeing Z Moves does a few things
1. Reflects the fact that 2v2 is an actual tier and not the theory tier it was when Rumple banned Z moves. (Rumple theory = Ban Kyub and Dracovish)
2. Diversifies the SM meta in a good way
3. Differentiates SM from ORAS in a significant way
3.5. Allows innovation in both SM and ORAS because people now have a reason to want to play ORAS, and gives a whole lot more room for SM to expand.
 
Last edited:
The change in meta from freeing Z-moves would be huge and shift SM to looking like BW where everything gets OHKOd but idt that’s necessarily a bad thing.

I agree with freeing Z moves in SM. They were banned by RumplePolicy and it’s not like there is a huge returning playerbase that can’t learn the new tier.

Also ban Ally Switch in all gens. Echoing blanched and adam that the user’s viability doesn’t matter, the move is cheese on fuckin anything. Most of the time it’s not even a 50/50, its presence in a tier can lead to unoptimal plays just because one of the opposing mons can learn it. Completely uncompetitive cheese.
 
With no objection from the council, Ally Switch is now banned from SM 2v2 Doubles.

RE: Z-Moves


(speaking for myself not council disclaimer)
There has been recent discussion with regard to the removal of the Z-Move Clause from SM 2v2 Doubles that has been in place since 2018. While I agree with the sentiment that such a ban from the previous tiering council when SM was the current generation was a badly done move, I am hesitant to drastically change the status quo of a metagame that has been looked on quite favorably by those who've played it for years now. Removal of the Z-Move Clause would bring about it a markedly different metagame that likely would require balancing, I'd hope to think there is no question about that.

Regardless of how I feel about the removal of the Z-Move clause from SM 2v2 Doubles, I do not believe an outright removal now with 2v2 Premier League III starting in less than three weeks is a good idea. Such a change to the metagame with upcoming tournaments requires a bit more due diligence than that. I think a metagame decision like this requires that we both poll the active player base and spend a good amount of time playtesting before making any lasting decision. I look to putting a great effort into doing such things with the council in the coming days and weeks.

As always, thank you for reading, and have a nice day.
 

Itchy

live a villain, die an icon
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
BW 2v2 council had a VR update! The old VR had a quite a few borderline usable Pokemon towards the bottom, to the point where C-, D, and UR were basically the same viability. To help with this, we removed the D Rank, which I'm sure no one will complain about. Without further ado, here's the new VR!

S Rank
:kyurem-black: Kyurem-B
:metagross: Metagross
:scrafty: Scrafty

S- Rank
:infernape: Infernape
:Latios: Latios
:thundurus: Thundurus
:tornadus: Tornadus

A+ Rank
:genesect:Genesect

A Rank
:jellicent-F: Jellicent
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-S
:togekiss: Togekiss
:tyranitar: Tyranitar
:victini: Victini
:volcarona: Volcarona

A- Rank
:deoxys-attack: Deoxys-A
:keldeo-resolute: Keldeo
:terrakion: Terrakion

B+ Rank
:excadrill: Excadrill

B Rank
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl
:amoonguss: Amoonguss
:chandelure: Chandelure
:cresselia: Cresselia
:darkrai: Darkrai
:gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Heatran: Heatran
:latias: Latias
:mamoswine: Mamoswine
:mew: Mew
:politoed: Politoed
:thundurus-therian: Thundurus-T
:weavile: Weavile

B- Rank
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:hariyama: Hariyama
:hitmontop: Hitmontop
:ludicolo: Ludicolo
:manaphy: Manaphy
:snorlax: Snorlax
:suicune: Suicune

C+ Rank
:archeops: Archeops
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-D
:kabutops: Kabutops

C Rank
:blastoise: Blastoise
:blaziken: Blaziken
:landorus-therian: Landorus-T
:ninetales: Ninetales
:porygon2: Porygon2
:rotom-wash: Rotom-W
:venusaur: Venusaur

C- Rank
:alakazam: Alakazam
:bronzong: Bronzong
:hydreigon: Hydreigon
:kyurem: Kyurem
:landorus: Landorus
:liepard: Liepard
:lucario: Lucario
:rotom-heat: Rotom-H

Metagross S- -> S
Scrafty S- -> S
Infernape A+ -> S-
Tornadus A+ -> S-
Genesect A -> A+
Togekiss A- -> A
Victini A- -> A
Volcarona A- -> A
Deoxys-A B -> A-
Terrakion B+ -> A-
Excadrill B -> B+
Aerodactyl C- -> B
Mew B- -> B
Thundurus-T B- -> B
Weavile B- -> B
Archeops D -> C+
Deoxys-D D -> C+
Kabutops C -> C+
Blastiose C- -> C
Porygon2 D -> C
Venusaur C- -> C
Bronzong D -> C-
Kyurem UR -> C-
Lucario D -> C-
Rotom-H UR -> C-
Latios S -> S-
Cresselia B+ -> B
Heatran B+ -> B
Latias B+ -> B
Ferrothorn B -> B-
Hitmontop B+ -> B-
Suicune B -> B-
Blaziken B- -> C
Landorus-T B- -> C
Rotom-W B- -> C
Scizor C+ -> UR
Conkeldurr C -> UR
Salamence C -> UR
Zapdos C -> UR
Breloom C- -> UR
Gyarados C- -> UR
Togetic C- -> UR
Meloetta D -> UR
Hippowdon D -> UR
Porygon-Z D -> UR
Rhyperior D -> UR
 

IBM

Banned deucer.
My thoughts on Z moves in SM


Before the tournament I was on the side of unbanning Z moves but I have since changed my mind. There are several reasons I think z moves should stay banned and they blend together somewhat so I’ll try to keep this from becoming a wall of text.

:Venusaur: Overcentralization :Charizard:
Some people would say that adding z moves increases diversity because bad mons can add a z move and get a one time nuke to be useful. To those people I say: Why use a z move on a bad mon to make it usable when you could use a z move on a good mon to make it broken? The meta is centralized on the fast big threats koko and venu which limit counterplay heavily. Trick room and tailwind users just get OHKOed turn one so that isn’t good counterplay, so building devolves into picking faster and faster mons to deal effectively with koko and zard.
This isn’t inherently a bad thing, just look at bw, but the difference is the bar in bw is much lower, and there isn’t an exact speed you need to be above to be viable, and some of the best mons are still slow like scrafty and mgross.
In Z move SM on the other hand, a mon needs to be either faster than 394 and able to ohko koko, or provide some other method of dealing with it like lightning rod or zardy with sun, otherwise that mon is just not worth using. You can see an example of this with scarf lando being spammed in playoffs of the tour.

:Lopunny: Building is cancer :Hoopa-unbound:
It is quite literally impossible to create a team that deals with a small amount top threats consistently. You need something to always beat electric surge, only tapu bulu does this in one team slot. You need something to deal with sun, only hoopa does this in one team slot. You need something to deal with celesteela + redirection. You need something to deal with lop + hoopa. You need something to deal with kommo-o/kyub. There is 0 way to cover these things in just 4 mon slots, believe me I have tried, but you end up just having to pray the opponent doesn’t bring whatever you’re weak to. These are just the 5 most common cores, there are a million other things the opp could bring that you just have no way to deal with.

:Tapu koko: Why not ban Koko? :Tapu koko:
I don’t think these are issues that solely exist because of koko, koko is more a symptom of the disease that z moves create in the meta, with the centralization around being the fastest strongest mon, banning Koko will just push the problem down the road to Venusaur, then Kart, etc etc. No matter what you ban the meta will probably pretty much always be this way with z moves in the meta due to the immense immediate power they give.

:flygon: Final Thoughts :flygon:
At the end of the day, I think the Z move meta is a lot less fun and interesting to play and watch than standard SM, eliminating TR and TW sucks as well as the more fun mid bulk mons that get sidelined by z moves. That’s why I would vote to keep z moves banned.
 
Hello BW gamers (the best kind of gamers)
I have created a setcomp draft! Here it is: https://pokepast.es/dcfe17457c9230ad

It's mostly based off of my and IBM's team dumps as well as some other teams and sets I've collected over time.
Obviously it's not perfect or all-encompassing but it's better than whatever we have currently, the main aim was just to give one or two somewhat reasonable sets for all the ranked mons. With some more sets and improvements it should be a good resource.

Regarding items, they are often very team dependent, depending on what you need to live and what you need to ohko/2hko, so that's why a lot of sets are gem / lo.
 

Morgan

Morgius Sweep
is a Pre-Contributor
ORAS VR has been updated

Also, thanks to yuki Blanched for joining ORAS Council.

S+
:Metagross-Mega: Metagross-Mega

S
:Charizard-Mega-Y: :Charizard-Mega-X: Mega Charizard
:Lopunny-Mega: Lopunny-Mega
:Mawile-Mega: Mawile-Mega
:Talonflame: Talonflame

S-
:Garchomp-Mega: Garchomp-Mega
:Swampert-Mega: Swampert-Mega
:Venusaur-Mega: :Venusaur: (Mega) Venusaur

A+
:suicune: Suicune
:Tyranitar-Mega: :Tyranitar: (Mega) Tyranitar
:Hoopa-Unbound: Hoopa-Unbound
:Victini: Victini
:Manectric-Mega: Manectric-Mega

A
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
:Shaymin-Sky: Shaymin-Sky
:Gyarados-Mega: :Gyarados: (Mega) Gyarados
:Zapdos: Zapdos
:Mew: Mew
:Cresselia: Cresselia
:Volcanion: Volcanion
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Entei: Entei

A-
:Togekiss: Togekiss
:Politoed: Politoed
:Blaziken-Mega: Blaziken-Mega
:Diancie-Mega: :Diancie: (Mega) Diancie
:Porygon2: Porygon2
:Terrakion: Terrakion
:Blastoise-Mega: :Blastoise: (Mega) Blastoise
:Infernape: Infernape
:Aerodactyl-Mega: Aerodactyl-Mega
:Camerupt-Mega: Camerupt-Mega
:Landorus: Landorus
:Deoxys-Attack: Deoxys-Attack
:Amoonguss: Amoonguss
:Heatran: Heatran
:Sableye-Mega: :Sableye: (Mega) Sableye

B+
:Keldeo: Keldeo
:Latios-Mega: :Latios: (Mega) Latios
:Latias-Mega: :Latias: (Mega) Latias
:Thundurus: Thundurus
:Volcarona: Volcarona
:Gardevoir-Mega: Gardevoir-Mega
:Darkrai: Darkrai
:Clefairy: Clefairy
:Banette-Mega: :Whimsicott: Disable Encore
:Lucario-Mega: Lucario-Mega

B
:Gengar-Mega: Gengar-Mega
:Genesect: Genesect
:Scrafty: Scrafty
:Sylveon: Sylveon
:Steelix-Mega: Steelix-Mega
:Arcanine: Arcanine

B-
:Hariyama: Hariyama
:Azumarill: Azumarill
:Medicham-Mega: Medicham-Mega
:Rhyperior: Rhyperior
:Heracross-Mega: Heracross-Mega
:Sceptile-Mega: Sceptile-Mega
:Excadrill: Excadrill
:Hypno: Hypno

C+
:Altaria-Mega: Altaria-Mega
:Abomasnow-Mega: Abomasnow-Mega
:Gastrodon: Gastrodon
:Greninja: Greninja (Torrent)
:Ludicolo: Ludicolo

C
:Mamoswine: Mamoswine
:Electabuzz: Electabuzz
:Furret: Furret
:Salamence: Salamence
:Aegislash: Aegislash

Also New Sample Teams

:Manectric-Mega: :Metagross-Mega: :Keldeo: :Talonflame:
Double Mega Talonflame by yuki

:Lopunny-Mega: :Talonflame: :Hoopa-Unbound: :Metagross-Mega:
Funny haha by Morgan

:Diancie: :Sceptile-Mega: :Blaziken-Mega: :Camerupt-Mega:
Hoe-ing Supremacy + Weird Rock by Morgan

:Latias: :Shaymin-Sky: :Togekiss: :Blaziken-Mega:
Reflect Type Latias by yuki
 
Hi, I'd like to share the team I built during gen8. Simple but works pretty well, I reached 1700elo with it when I used to play 2v2, and I currently use it in <tournaments> with success.

The old reliable by me
:Landorus-Therian::flygon::talonflame::Kyurem:
The main core of the team is Banded Landorus Therian, which provides unparalleled offense (+ intimidation), and Tailwind Talonflame for speed control. Scarfed Kyurem is mainly used for speed control with Glaciate in cases where Talonflame won't do, and while Flygon's ability synergies with LandorusT's EQ, I find scarce use for it except for specific counters.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top