Old Gens OMs Megathread

[Snaquaza]

Approved by TI

Have you ever thought: I wish there were no -ates in BH, wow Adaptability is way too good in Almost Any Ability or even thought Sableye shouldn't get Prankster, in STABmons it's just too good! Or maybe you just like some old gens, or there mechanics, then this is the place for you! This thread will hold all the discussion for the Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 counterparts of the Other Metas being discussed in this forum!

Old Gens were the previous generations for Pokemon. The first only had 151 Pokemon, a limited amount of moves, and very different mechanics. All gens from then started adding Pokemon, moves, and mechanics. This causes all generation to change all other metagames, and may add some twists to it. Note: In the past some OMs had Past Gen ladders on PS, this is unlikely to return.

General discussion about Old Gens can be found here.

Rules:

• You may only discuss Approved Other Metagames in past generations. Your post may be deleted if its off-topic, about this gen, or about an Other Metagame which hasn't been approved.
• Since you can talk about many generations and Other Metagames, include which gen and OM you're talking about. Starting a post with "In Gen 1 Haxmons" or something similar may be a good idea.
• Since Old Gens are very different from Gen 6, you may assume that the OMs will follow the OU banlist, use common sense though, and don't assume Regigigas and Slaking are suddenly legal in AAA. You should be able to draw the line between what 'mons are obvious and which aren't. Bans not regarding Pokemon still apply, unless the factor in question has changed considerably.
• All general rules apply. Don't break them please!

Notice:

• You can't play AAA in Gen 1 and 2, nor would BH add abilities.
• Tier Shift will affect 'mons based on the tier of the generation you're talking about. They don't get OU boosts.
• Some Other Metagames have gen 5 threads, for a general idea of a Gen 5 metagame you may be able to head there.

 

[Snaquaza]

Reserved

 

[Snaquaza]

Reserved.

 

[leng loi]

Can stuff like this get coded on aqua?

 

[Snaquaza]

All metas will be available on Aqua shortly. (All from main at least)

 

[Ghoul King]

Just to clarify: does the wording in the OP mean we can discuss only OMs that have been specifically approved as Old Gen OMs, or does the wording mean "any officially approved OM"? (This is plausibly compatible with said Old Gen, etc)

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Is there going to be a post listing 5th gen OM threads? (I think Weather would be banned in AAA Gen 5 because of its permanent stature and a shit ton of abusers (Drizzle Keldeo in particular would be troublesome, especially without a lot of its Gen 6 checks/counters like Fairies and Gale Wings abusers))

 

[MK]

Is there going to be a post listing 5th gen OM threads? (I think Weather would be banned in AAA Gen 5 because of its permanent stature and a shit ton of abusers (Drizzle Keldeo in particular would be troublesome, especially without a lot of its Gen 6 checks/counters like Fairies and Gale Wings abusers))

Keldeo is already banned in AAA.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Just to clarify: does the wording in the OP mean we can discuss only OMs that have been specifically approved as Old Gen OMs, or does the wording mean "any officially approved OM"? (This is plausibly compatible with said Old Gen, etc)

Based on my interpretation of the wording - Any officially approved OM, as long as it is compatible with said Old Gen seems fine. After all he mentioned that AAA doesn't work in Gen 1 and 2 for obvious reasons, but Gen 1 STABmons is still possible even though a formal thread for it didn't exist. (In fact, Gen 1 STABmons and Hackmons only change in the sense that you can use any STAB move and any move. It's fun.)

I've been having some fun playing Old Gen STABmons with users in the Other Metas room on PS! As for AAA, I generally used standard AAA ban lists and filtered the post-Gen 3 thread abilities. I'll post the Gen 5 thread here if I could find it though.

 

[Ranger Mike]

SpartanMalice and I have played rby and gsc stabmons and they are both really fun. Jolteon is a great lead in rby due to its ability to use Lovely Kiss and hit eggy, what will probably be another common lead, with pin missle. It also has a very high crit rate (25%) and a solid 110 special. Aerodactyl is another solid pokemon due to it actually getting rock slide and gaining drill peck. Transform is apparently terrible in gen 1 so Chansey shouldn't use it. Slash is great on tauros, and I like Hyper Beam over boom on it. As for amnesia users I feel like Starmie and zam are the best ones due to their reliable recovery.

For GSC stabmons Machamp is sooo good, being able to use High Jump Kick over Cross Chop is so great for the curse set due to its higher pp. Bellyspeed Snorlax + pursuit ttar is pretty insane and most likely broken. I haven't though of a lot of stuff for gsc stabmons yet.

Also Snaquaza 2 questions, 1 how are the bls working for ts, and shouldn't this be in roa?

Tier shift hype though

 

[Snaquaza]

SpartanMalice and I have played rby and gsc stabmons and they are both really fun. Jolteon is a great lead in rby due to its ability to use Lovely Kiss and hit eggy, what will probably be another common lead, with pin missle. It also has a very high crit rate (25%) and a solid 110 special. Aerodactyl is another solid pokemon due to it actually getting rock slide and gaining drill peck. Transform is apparently terrible in gen 1 so Chansey shouldn't use it. Slash is great on tauros, and I like Hyper Beam over boom on it. As for amnesia users I feel like Starmie and zam are the best ones due to their reliable recovery.

For GSC stabmons Machamp is sooo good, being able to use High Jump Kick over Cross Chop is so great for the curse set due to its higher pp. Bellyspeed Snorlax + pursuit ttar is pretty insane and most likely broken. I haven't though of a lot of stuff for gsc stabmons yet.

Also Snaquaza 2 questions, 1 how are the bls working for ts, and shouldn't this be in roa?

Tier shift hype though

Like normal Tier Shift, and the Doubles thread is here too, and not in doubles. Right now it seems like more OM people would be interested in this than Old Gen people, so it'd probably get more attention here.

 

[canno]

Gen 1 STABmons sounds cool, you get things like

• 
  Aerodactyl now has access to STAB in the form of Drill Peck and Rock Slide, which makes it much better than it was originally, as it patches up its main weakness (awful movepool - now its movepool is on-par with the rest of the meta). It doesn't get much else, but this is Gen 1 STABmons - there aren't that many toys to give out
• 
  Im just using Scyther as the posterboy here for Bug-types moves getting actual STAB! It's not fantastic - Twineedle for a solid 50 BP (probably the worst of the two, since it has a high-ish chance to Poison) and Pin Missle for variable BP but a max of 75 and a min of 28, but its something to hit Psychic SE. Scyther is probably the best of the bunch, being the fastest, having decent attack, and having a second STAB in Drill Peck.
  
• 
  There's a lot of big changes for Exeggutor - the first being its access to Spore, making its job that much more reliable. The second thing is that it now has a good Grass STAB in the shape of Razor Leaf, although this one is probably the most minor one. The biggest change, though, is access to Amnesia. This, along with access to Spore, means it can do much more than just lead now. I guess it can also try and pull off Agility - or even Agility + Amnesia, which is a combo all Psychic-types get, but 50 is just too slow, even after an Agility. Just remember that Amnesia won't boost Razor Leaf!
  
• 
  I'm using Eevee to represent the Eeveelution, as they don't benefit that much from their typing (although Crabhammer Vap sounds deadly) but much more from Eevee's Normal typing. As mentioned, Jolteon gets access to Lovely Kiss and can even run Explosion for a decent anti-lead set. Vap gets access to Recover and Lovely Kiss, which lets it stand out and not be completely outclassed by Slowbro and Starmie. Lastly, Flareon is still bad, but it has access to Lovely Kiss and Recover, along with Slash, making it probably one of the better Fire-types now, aside from Moltres.
  
• 
  Already an amazing Pokemon, Starmie just gets better. It now has access to Crabhammer and Amnesia (although they don't work well on the same set), both of which are really strong moves. It even has Agility to bypass Paralysis to an extent, making an already deadly Pokemon that much stronger.

 

[Funbot28]

Im intrested to play, just PM me on Aqua if you want to play

 

[MAMP]

bump

So recently me and Dragongroudon9 have been playing a fair bit of ADV BH, and from what I've played so far its a really fun meta and you should totally give it a go. The rules we agreed on were:

Clauses:
Sleep Clause
OHKO Clause
Endless Battle Clause

Banlist:
Wonder Guard
Huge Power
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Arena Trap

This meta is vastly different to regular BH. Most notably, almost all of the powerful abilities that characterise BH are completely absent. Imposter, Magic Bounce, Prankster, Poison Heal, Mold Breaker, Unaware, Illusion, Regenerator and Fur Coat are all gone, and in addition Sturdy works differently and doesn't allow Shedinja to survive every attack. All of the most powerful set-up moves are gone as well, as are many of the high base power attacking moves that make BH's wallbreakers so dangerous. Gen 3's mechanics are also very different from what many people are familiar with - it's pre-Physical/Special split, has no team preview, and a lot of moves function differently (for example, Fake Out and Extreme Speed both are only +1 priority). ADV BH also allows Pokemon to have full 252 EVs in every stat.

ADV BH is playable through Gen 3 Custom Game on any server.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385046083
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385057640
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385448451
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385451386
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385454608
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3customgame-385459515


Threatlist

SLAKING

Slaking is definitely the scariest threat in the metagame. It has fantastic stats all around, being easily able to set up Swords Dance or Belly Drum on a huge variety of threats thanks to its great bulk, before sweeping with Extreme Speed. It can also run a FakeSpeed set to revenge kill things. The best checks to it are bulky normal resists like Skarmory, Jirachi, Regirock, and Dusclops, but their ability to beat Slaking is dependent on its set - it can run Earthquake, Shadow Ball (which is physical in gen 3), High Jump Kick, or Taunt to get past its checks.

SPORE

Spore is held in check somewhat by Sleep Clause, but it can still be very dangerous. Insomnia/Vital Spirit are a hard counter to Spore, and Lum Berry and Natural Cure can soft check sleep strategies. Running abilities like Insomnia to beat Spore might seem like a waste of an ability slot, but as abilities are just generally a lot weaker in this meta you aren't actually sacrificing a huge amount by slapping Insomnia on a random mon.

WEATHER

Weather is a potent strategy in ADV BH. Drizzle, Drought and Sand Stream are all available, as are Swift Swim and Chlorophyll. Rain is probably the most effective weather, as it has the best abusers and provides great defensive support for Steel types by reducing the power of fire type moves.

SET-UP

With Imposter, Unaware, and Prankster absent from the meta, set-up can be very potent, even though the set-up moves are weaker. Dragon Dance, Swords Dance, Tail Glow (note this only boosts SpA 2 stages), Calm Mind, Bulk Up, Belly Drum and Speed Boost are all very threatening, but can all be stopped cold by Haze or Whirlwind, or prevented by Taunt.

WALLS

As the wallbreakers in the tier are generally weaker, defensive Pokemon like Lugia and Registeel can be very challenging to break through, especially if they use Whirlwind or Haze to prevent set-up. However, as they can't run Magic Bounce or Poison Heal to protect themselves, Taunt and Toxic can break them down, and Spikes can be used to wear them out and make it difficult for them to switch in.

List of viable abilities

Chlorophyll
Drizzle
Drought
Flash Fire
Guts
Hustle
Insomnia
Intimidate
Levitate
Lightning Rod
Magnet Pull
Natural Cure
Pressure
Rock Head
Rough Skin
Sand Stream
Serene Grace
Speed Boost
Suction Cups
Swift Swim
Vital Spirit
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb

Sample Sets

Slaking @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Guts / Insomnia / Intimidate / Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Ball
- High Jump Kick / Earthquake

Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost / Insomnia
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Substitute
- Taunt / Spikes / Tail Glow
- Baton Pass

Kyogre @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Thunder
- Ice Beam

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Recover
- Rock Slide

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire / Insomnia / Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Aeroblast / Seismic Toss
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Spikes / Baton Pass / Rapid Spin

 

[Anna says hi]

Time for a revival!

Gen 2 Balanced Hackmons

Rules:
All Pokemon can have (almost) any move.

Bans and clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
Sleep Clause (The reason for this is that there are no anti-sleep measures in Gen 2 aside from Sleep Talk, and sleep can last for up to 7 turns.)
Mewtwo Clause - Limit one Mewtwo per team. Other species are exempt from Species Clause.
Sleep Trap Clause - Players may not have a trapping move (Spider Web, Mean Look) and a sleep-inducing move (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Hypnosis) on the same Pokemon. A more specific version of this clause exists in Gen 2 OU specifically to nerf Misdreavus.
Endless Battle Clause - As far as I know, there isn't any way to force an endless battle in Gen 2 - the closest thing being forcing something to Transform into something using the One-Move-In-Two-Slots glitch. This has a legitimate application in PP stall.

Threatlist:

Mewtwo
Skarmory
Lugia
Ho-oh
Blissey
Mew
Snorlax
Rhydon
Marowak
Electrode
Shuckle
Steelix

More threats may be discovered later.

Viability rankings: Coming soon(tm)

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-387434231
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-311402120

Things to keep in mind:

• No physical-special split! Skarmory has no physical weaknesses, Blissey has no special weaknesses.
• Recover has 32 PP. Without Imprison, there's no need to mix up your recovery moves.
• Hidden Power can act as a "reliable" STAB move for types that don't have strong STABs.
• Toxic Poison becomes regular Poison after switching out.
• Only one layer of Spikes can be up at a time.
• Stats are capped at 999! Growth Mewtwo won't have any further effect once it's at +3.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Time for a revival!

Gen 2 Balanced Hackmons

Rules:
All Pokemon can have (almost) any move.

Bans and clauses:
OHKO Clause
Evasion Clause
Sleep Clause (The reason for this is that there are no anti-sleep measures in Gen 2 aside from Sleep Talk, and sleep can last for up to 7 turns.)
Mewtwo Clause - Limit one Mewtwo per team. Other species are exempt from Species Clause.
Misdreavus Clause - Players may not have a trapping move (Spider Web, Mean Look), a sleep-inducing move (Spore, Sleep Powder, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Hypnosis), and Perish Song on the same Pokemon. This clause exists in Gen 2 OU specifically to nerf Misdreavus.
Endless Battle Clause - As far as I know, there isn't any way to force an endless battle in Gen 2 - the closest thing being forcing something to Transform into something using the One-Move-In-Two-Slots glitch. This has a legitimate application in PP stall.

Threatlist:

Mewtwo
Skarmory
Lugia
Ho-oh
Blissey
Mew
Snorlax
Rhydon
Marowak
Electrode
Shuckle
Steelix

More threats may be discovered later.

Viability rankings: Coming soon

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-387434231
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2customgame-311402120

Seems like a cool meta, will probably try it and enjoy it, but you really should ban sleeptrappass it seems so stupid especially with literally every mon getting it in tandem with so many more abusers of it.

 

[Anna says hi]

At the time I wasn't sure if you could Baton Pass Trapping moves, similar to gen 3. Currently all forms of Sleep Trapping are now banned because you can do more stuff than just pass it away if you trap the right thing.