Media One Piece (spoilers!)

[Chou Toshio]

Hype hype hype hype hype hype

Did they ever tell us what happens for awakening of Non-Paramia fruits? Like what happens when a Zoan/Mythical Zoan awakens?

 

[Chou Toshio]

1044

Despite my earlier post, I'm good with this reveal. On top of the sheer chaotic fun of it, it definitely fits with the One Piece vibe of Luffy's adventure being surrounded by long-running global machinations that are only gradually revealed to us. I've seen people speculating that Shanks might have planned to give the fruit to Ace before Luffy ate it, and if that's true then it definitely feels like some pieces are nicely clicking into place.

Given that we got the reveal from the Gorosei, who aren't at Onigashima, it'll be interesting to see what the characters who are there make of this.

Ace was still a little kid on the same island as Luffy when Luffy ate the fruit. Shanks didn’t know Ace yet either.

 

[Pissog]

 

[Mova]

it's amazing to see that we're in the endgame for real now, and i also love how luffy's final form acts more like big chungus than goku

 

[SparksBlade]

Hype hype hype hype hype hype

Did they ever tell us what happens for awakening of Non-Paramia fruits? Like what happens when a Zoan/Mythical Zoan awakens?

we only know about regular awakened zoans (not even ancient or mythical) - they just get faster stronger tankier and their recovery is super faster as well. i was hoping we would see flying six and all stars show awakening but so far that's been a disappointment and doesn't look like we'll see them use it (unless they say that ulti getting up after being hit by big mom's attack and drake walking back to the cp0 are signs of awakening)

 

[kstiemsma]

Hype hype hype hype hype hype

Did they ever tell us what happens for awakening of Non-Paramia fruits? Like what happens when a Zoan/Mythical Zoan awakens?

to be clear this is just headcannon but i like to think that kaido started off as an actual fish when he first got his fruit but awakening turned him into a dragon in the same vein as the 1044 transformation. to me it makes the amount of times he got caught by the world government make a lot more sense (since he was weak af before awakening) and i like it thematically for kaido's character as it gives him even more ways to mirror luffy. makes a lot more sense why mama gave him the fruit as well if it was a relatively bad fruit (or thought to be) back then. tho i am getting a bit confused on whether users actually know the name of their fruit with recent stuff.

god valley was 38? years ago and kaido's been camped out in wano for the last twenty years. i can't imagine kaido not losing a single time in that span (i know oden exists but otherwise) if he had been captured/defeated by the marines several dozen times in the years before that without a drastic change in his power.

also tangential but my opinion of kaido has shifted so much recently. for me he went from a one note villain with little personality outside of yamato dad and being a drunk to one of my favorite in whole series. still like doffy and blackbeard better especially as law fanboy haha but he might be top 5 for me now.

 

[SparksBlade]

we might also see some tragedy in the past cos he said something like "you're oni and they'll never accept you" to yamato on the rooftop. also waiting for some payoff on "pirates will always betray you"

 

[earl]

Am I in the minority here in not liking the reveal for this chapter? I feels like it’s kind of devalued luffy’s growth through the series. Maybe I just don’t like chosen one plots and I really appreciated the fact that luffy’s fruit was, by all measurements, pretty mediocre

 

[SparksBlade]

Am I in the minority here in not liking the reveal for this chapter? I feels like it’s kind of devalued luffy’s growth through the series. Maybe I just don’t like chosen one plots and I really appreciated the fact that luffy’s fruit was, by all measurements, pretty mediocre

i disagree cos of 2 things, subject to future stuff that might change this

1. i have faith in oda and i think he has thought about this for a long time and really wanted to draw this particular chapter (in the arc that he also was looking forward to draw)
2. gorosei said the fruit's limits are only the user's imagination. to me that means that its strengths are also determined by the user itself. it's not a naturally strong fruit like foxy's or perhaps buggy's, it requires the user to put in the work as well. we don't know atm what all is special about this fruit, and how much of its myth is from the fruit's power alone and how much could be from its previous user(s)

i do have fears of some bad turns the story could take, but there's nothing to say that it'll definitely take a bad turn, so im reserving judgment till i actually see how the story progresses instead of judging this chapter based on what could happen

the only thing i dislike atm about this chapter is that the hiyori part, which imo is a very strong moment in itself, is completely overshadowed by the big reveal. it's sandwiched between the confirmation about the fruit and its name, and the actual reveal of luffy's form, and when the hiyori part came i just wanted it to end asap and hoping the chapter doesn't end on another cliffhanger without a reveal. in any other chapter the hiyori section would be more notable


where the fuck is denjiro

 

[Chou Toshio]

i disagree cos of 2 things, subject to future stuff that might change this

1. i have faith in oda and i think he has thought about this for a long time and really wanted to draw this particular chapter (in the arc that he also was looking forward to draw)
2. gorosei said the fruit's limits are only the user's imagination. to me that means that its strengths are also determined by the user itself. it's not a naturally strong fruit like foxy's or perhaps buggy's, it requires the user to put in the work as well. we don't know atm what all is special about this fruit, and how much of its myth is from the fruit's power alone and how much could be from its previous user(s)

i do have fears of some bad turns the story could take, but there's nothing to say that it'll definitely take a bad turn, so im reserving judgment till i actually see how the story progresses instead of judging this chapter based on what could happen

the only thing i dislike atm about this chapter is that the hiyori part, which imo is a very strong moment in itself, is completely overshadowed by the big reveal. it's sandwiched between the confirmation about the fruit and its name, and the actual reveal of luffy's form, and when the hiyori part came i just wanted it to end asap and hoping the chapter doesn't end on another cliffhanger without a reveal. in any other chapter the hiyori section would be more notable


where the fuck is denjiro

Not going to lie— not a big fan of Hiyori because daughter of Samurai Lord worksup to be top Geisha and then proves the honor of her heritage/never forgetting her Samurai honor by revealing herself and taking revenge on her father’s killer is like the most cliché trope of Samurai stories EVER.

It serves as cultural aesthetic for the story… Hiyori bring Hiyori adds about as much to the arc as the castle being a giant Bonsai tree… served to a Japanese audience (as this manga is…) you could hardly call her and Orochi characters at all for how predictable they are in A samurai story.

I’m okay for this being background noise because that feels exactly like what they are/should be. Hiyori and Kanjuuro too actually are just both just the extreme demonstrations of the samurai filialty on which samurai stories are built upon.

That’s not to say that I think the story is worse for having them, just that I do think these extremely predictable characters and scenes are just necessary stage setting— like bonsai trees, Tengu, ninjas, etc.

 

[Legitimate Username]

The Mochi-Mochi Fruit is actually a Mythical Zoan, the Human-Human Fruit Model: Mochizuki. Mochizuki is some random god we've never heard of whose power is to be mochi and who is the god of the sun but bigger.

srs

For the record I don't hate this reveal and I think that the new expanded powerset fits his character brilliantly from a thematic perspective, and that the problem lies with the overarching pacing of the setup and reveal instead. Luffy has never been rewarded with a powerup for losing a fight before, it's always come as a result of hard work and effort, creativity, and the physical pain and exhaustion of pushing himself beyond his own limits, and the fact that such a series-defining turning point has suddenly taken place with extremely underdeveloped foreshadowing has only solidified my viewpoint that Luffy needs to and will lose this fight in order for the story structure to work. Compare this to his fights against Lucci, Katakuri, or Crocodile, and a victory here would not even remotely resemble the series tone that's been established for such major narrative milestones and a great deal of emotional impact would be effectively lost.

Don't forget that Luffy was the first one to reveal this trump card, not the second. Kaido still has his own awakening up his sleeve, and a major unrevealed flashback and expectations of a big Act 3 tragedy only solidify that point. Luffy's victory should not come from a sudden powerup that exists completely out of nowhere, this works far better if it's merely the setup phase for his eventual victory much further in the future so that it avoids the deus ex machina issues.

 

[NB402141]

Isn't Luffy's awakening as a zoan different than the others. Since the only zoan awakening(remind me if I forget someone) that we know are the ones from impel down are the jailer beasts but they said they were just stronger and kinda better while Luffy's awakening keeps the paramecia part but also adds in some of the zoan by being stronger and gaining gear 5. Also, isn't it strange that Luffy is a zoan who goes outside the rules of zoan? Usually its Man, Man-beast, beast as the forms unless use of something like the rumble ball but Luffy never has used a rumble ball and natural uses 5 different man-beast versions of his devil fruit(all the gears unless gear 5 is the actual beast.) Also, Zushesha called Luffy Joy Boy but do we know if Joy Boy had the gomu gomu no mi?

 

[Ununhexium]

Usually its Man, Man-beast, beast as the forms unless use of something like the rumble ball but Luffy never has used a rumble ball and natural uses 5 different man-beast versions of his devil fruit(all the gears unless gear 5 is the actual beast.)

I kinda figured that these were just extensions of the rubber property and not various forms of the zoan fruit

 

[Mova]

the power of toon physics and possibly meme magic lol

The "meme magic" comes from the powers only being limited to the user's imagination, meaning Luffy can meme whatever he wants into reality like nothing.

Also, Luffy is not the only Zoan user to have "evolving" forms. Tamago of Big Mom's crew, who uses the Tama Tama no Mi, was confirmed to be an evolving Zoan as well.

 

[Ginger Princess]

Honestly, I love this direction that the powers are going, but I think this all could have just been the regular awakening of the gomu gomu, wrt complete control of the body's shape and altering the surroundings to be rubber. It's a fantastic addition of powers regardless, though changing the fruit still seems arbitrary at the moment. The only thing that requires a mythical variant is the flaming head/limited fire control that he has (I never really had a problem with the Red Hawk attack just being a *thing* they can do, in the same sense of Sanji's fire leg stuff). Though, perhaps next chapter or so Luffy will demonstrate more definitely-not rubber related abilities that would further justify this change. Who knows.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I think it being one of the Hito Hito (human) fruits is part of the equation. Chopper’s fruit just acts like a normal Zoan, but that’s because Deer and Human are different species. Oda has said that if a human ate Chopper’s fruit that they would gain Buddha-like Wisdom and physical abilities but not hybrid formes like Chopper has.

Luffy being human might be a similar deal.

We do have Sengoku to compare to though, as another Hito Hito Mythical Zoan who literally turns into a Golden Buddha— but we don’t know how Model Buddha evolved/expressed its powers with Sengoku—if he went through a similar evolution of his power to Luffy—or if Model Buddha and Model Nika are just too different in nature to compare. Or even different in personality, since Zoan Fruits are apparently semi-intelligent.

 

[NB402141]

I kinda figured that these were just extensions of the rubber property and not various forms of the zoan fruit

That could have been thought originally but now that we know it's a zoan its logical to realize that it is a form of a zoan. Also I think there is much more to gear 5 then we have seen since its probably called a "sun god" for a reason and that he can probably use more fire-based attacks along with rubber similar to red hawk, especially since he said it was the final peak form so I think there might be more moves like it or even more advanced.

 

[SparksBlade]

i. need. answers.

there's just a lot that doesn't sit right with me atm, and i can't figure out how it would, but i'll still just wait for oda to tell me the stuff. till then i'll sit mildly frustrated yet enjoying the chapter cos this was a real fun one in the spirit of the very early chapters.

some unorganized questions+thoughts that i want explained

- luffy had a very high initial bounty, which might now be explained by this? but then why didn't the govt ever try to actually catch luffy

- there must be a real gomu gomu fruit right?? does the govt have it to make sure a situation where a real gomu gomu user doesn't run into the fake gomu gomu user / prevent people realising there's 2 people with gomu gomu powers

- did the govt think luffy had the real gomu gomu? even then, they can just catch him cos he's a pirate and make sure what's going on

- is luffy's semi-weird behavior because of the will of his zoan fruit? we've seen cp9 members when they got their powers and idt they had such a drastic shift in personality

- why's the first conscious awakaned zoan user we see the one we thought was a paramecia? marco kaido king queen jack flying six nobody showed awakening (yet) ???

- now that luffy is awakened, and is strong enough to fight a yonko (win or lose), what'll gorosei's approach be? buster call his ass with admirals? go to him themselves? kidnap one of his friends? get one of the 3 weapons??

- i don't remember this clearly, but did we see doffy's awakening actually work on people? cos i think this is the first awakening that affects other beings directly?

i hope this fight doesn't go the katakuri route cos kaido's landed a lot more hits than luffy, and even tho both are tired now luffy ran out of gear 5 and had to force it back again which surely is his last one, while kaido is more experienced with all his forms

also looks like momo has stopped trying to pull the island he was up on the roof watching the fight. has the island stopped moving completely? if it falls then all the theories about luffy's awakening making it bounce at least can come true

Oda has said that if a human ate Chopper’s fruit that they would gain Buddha-like Wisdom and physical abilities but not hybrid formes like Chopper has.

i can only imagine oda giggling to himself as he gave this answer and knowing what he'll actually do

 

[NB402141]

- luffy had a very high initial bounty, which might now be explained by this? but then why didn't the govt ever try to actually catch luffy

- there must be a real gomu gomu fruit right?? does the govt have it to make sure a situation where a real gomu gomu user doesn't run into the fake gomu gomu user / prevent people realising there's 2 people with gomu gomu powers

- did the govt think luffy had the real gomu gomu? even then, they can just catch him cos he's a pirate and make sure what's going on

- is luffy's semi-weird behavior because of the will of his zoan fruit? we've seen cp9 members when they got their powers and idt they had such a drastic shift in personality

I think the government didn't know because the five elders initially wanted to make the fruit a secret so that nobody would find out. I think the fruit was also fake because then if some person had the "real" gomu-gomu no mi then the five elders might have freaked out thinking it was the sun god fruit and tried to assinate that person for no reason. Its most likely they called it the gomu-gomu no mi because no fruit like that exists and it is a good name for the fruit since it has a lot of rubber power. Government probably gave him such a high bounty because of his relationships with garp and dragon and the fact that he declared war on the world government and that he's part of the worst generation gives him a good reason to have a high bounty. I think the fruit makes him happier because if you noticed from flashbacks he used to be kinda angry before he got the fruit but then after he got kinda silly and happy.

 

[Call me PK]

We all can act tough and say " oda can never disappoint and that all the events are a part of the plan" but inside we all know that something is wrong with the way the last two chapters turned out even if they have shown what we all had wanted to see for so long but in a turn of events which are apparently unusual to most, if not all.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

- luffy had a very high initial bounty, which might now be explained by this? but then why didn't the govt ever try to actually catch luffy

This could end up being a bit of a plot hole, but my best rationalization at this point is that the Gorosei were trying to keep the true nature of Luffy's fruit a secret. The best way to stop a rising young pirate without drawing unusual attention to him probably is just a high bounty. They did also make some attempts to catch him, though obviously they didn't try as hard as we might now expect.

- there must be a real gomu gomu fruit right??

Why?

- is luffy's semi-weird behavior because of the will of his zoan fruit? we've seen cp9 members when they got their powers and idt they had such a drastic shift in personality

My guess at this point is that his personality would largely be the same anyway, and it's the combination of the fruit and his existing personality that makes him suited to bring the dawn of the world. After all, we've heard comparisons to Roger that go back to his very early interactions with Shanks. But if the fruit did influence his personality at all (or if you're just referring to his actions during this fight; I might be misinterpreting), then I still think it makes sense because there isn't any particular personality associated with a leopard or a giraffe, but there probably is with Nika.

- why's the first conscious awakaned zoan user we see the one we thought was a paramecia? marco kaido king queen jack flying six nobody showed awakening (yet) ???

Why not?

- i don't remember this clearly, but did we see doffy's awakening actually work on people? cos i think this is the first awakening that affects other beings directly?

Even Kaido seems surprised that Luffy's awakening works on him, so I'm guessing it's a unique property of Luffy's fruit. All the more reason to call it the most ridiculous power. This ignores the fact that Kid's awakening worked on Big Mom, which doesn't seem like an apples-to-apples comparison to me.

 

[NB402141]

This could end up being a bit of a plot hole, but my best rationalization at this point is that the Gorosei were trying to keep the true nature of Luffy's fruit a secret. The best way to stop a rising young pirate without drawing unusual attention to him probably is just a high bounty. They did also make some attempts to catch him, though obviously they didn't try as hard as we might now expect.

No I think that they thought it might have been the actual gomu-gomu no mi and just didn't realize that. Also they said that maybe the fruit was just a myth(or something like that) so maybe they didn't believe it actually existed.

 

[Bull Of Heaven]

That's possible, but I still don't know what the basis is to assume that there is an actual Gomu Gomu no Mi. It seems at least as likely to me that the World Government made that fruit up. As for Nika fruit being a myth, the Gorosei might not have been entirely certain, but they definitely at least believed that it was plausibly real.

 

[brightobject]

Artur of Ohara explained that there was a mistranslation wrt Nika being the fruits "true" name; apparently it is simply another name of the fruit. So both names are equally valid.

But yeah, not super crazy about the way this awakening has been handled - though it really just feels like it's suffering from some of the problems that have been endemic to the raid and this arc in general with very few moments getting the space they need to breathe.

 

[SparksBlade]

i think a real gomu gomu existing is not too unreasonable - there's so many different types of fruits already i don't see why a gomu gomu can't exist. maybe it really doesn't, but till it's explicitly stated i'll assume that it probably exists. we have so many weight and fire related fruits already so duplicacy or something like that isn't an issue for me. regardless, it's a minor detail - if it doesn't exist that gets rid of many problems (tho i'll be sad), if it does exist they can just say the gorosei have it so luffy's fruit can't be contested as the real gomu gomu.

i will declare one piece as the greatest piece of fiction ever created if this man gets the real gomu gomu

Why not?

because we've seen so many others for such a long time, and many of them have had years of practice+direct knowledge that they're a zoan and they have an awakening to achieve. i'll be very sad if some of the stuff is retconned as "that was marco's awakening" etc. i'd expect people of king queen jack's level to have awakening too

my question about luffy's personality was just how he's fighting kaido atm, not in general. we've never seen him this carefree and high while fighting. it's a bit like monkey king tbh who also joked around in fights in many representations of the story

Even Kaido seems surprised that Luffy's awakening works on him, so I'm guessing it's a unique property of Luffy's fruit. All the more reason to call it the most ridiculous power. This ignores the fact that Kid's awakening worked on Big Mom, which doesn't seem like an apples-to-apples comparison to me.

that's a fair point

I think the fruit makes him happier because if you noticed from flashbacks he used to be kinda angry before he got the fruit but then after he got kinda silly and happy.

we've seen happy luffy pre-fruit pretty sure. the flashbacks have just been of times when he was being competitive and determined i think

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going back to why luffy was not hunted down after he defeated crocodile, i wonder if it's the gorosei being very untrustworthy and after the who's who incident they weren't sure if they can tell cp0 to target this rookie pirate even under the pretense of the connection with dragon. maybe they were still worried about how shanks earlier got the info and stole the fruit, or that cp0 might question why they were being deployed for such a case and some secrets might come out. they might trust the other cp even less in such a case