OPEN DISCUSSION - TLR Concerns and Issues

[Its_A_Random]

LIGHTLY MODERATED DISCUSSION, JUST DO NOT BE A DICK ITT.​

The old thread was dead and for just legends in general, so I decided to open a new thread.

This is just a thread where you can air your concerns and if a certain facet of a TLR is balanced or not as well as general inquiries. Any topic is allowed as long as it relates to TLR. There are a few rules however:

1. Do not ask to make a TLR for a certain Pokémon ITT. Odds are you will be infracted if you do. If you want to make one, you will need to at least be a referee for a few months and have several TLR runs under your belt so you have an idea about level design and balance with regards to TLR's. Even then, contact Dogfish44 and me in private and get our approval there. Basically we want people to know what they are doing when making one. Some exceptions may occur like open source scenario TLR's like the Deoxys TLR that was conducted a year ago which I am fixing up at the moment.
2. If there is an active topic, try and withhold starting a new topic until the old one is resolved. Doing this tends to derail the current topic or end up getting buried in current topic posts so yeah.
3. Do not shitpost ITT. This is not Firebot, do not make unproductive one-liners or paragraphs that mock some facet of TLR ITT or risk getting infracted. This is a serious thread. There is a difference between genuine concerns and troll requests.
4. Nothing ITT will go to a council vote. Like the Gym Thread, policies will generally be fiated by me and dogfish and whatnot.
5. Nothing else, general forum rules and Policy Subforum rules apply here. Yeah nothing else to say.

There is no active topic to start with at the moment though we should do that Champion's Hall thing for 18 Badges or something. I will probably ask for this thread for feedback once I am done with working on Drifting Nomadic Augur so watch this space. I have this thread on watch so there is no need to tag me to post or something.

Other than that, go nuts!

 

[Frosty]

Is it possible to close all non-revamped TLRs? I mean BSC and Heaven's Ascent (TPF is recent, so it isn't necessary).

Reasoning is simple: they are obsolete and much easier than the intention. I mean, if WSM and FSQ were closed because they were too evil, consistency demands that those are also closed for being too easy (or for differing a lot from the new standards). Not to mention that reffing this is a bit too frustrating -_-.

I mean, BSC was clearly made for close-source and the change to open-source means that catching Heatran became that much easier. It is basically Lackeys->Guardians->Hippowdon->Heatran and none of the traps are bad (free energy go go go) if you read the part where it says that bringing a poison type and a psychic type is recommended. And its not like those typing are a liability in any sense of the word.

As for HA....it is just a mess. A gazillion encounters, but most are weird to no end due to items and/or movepool (more than one pokemon didn't have fucking protect iirc). Not to mention that most pokemon have no MC to allocate. Easy to prepare for and the only redeeming fact is the bogus boss arena.


We have enough TLR options around, to the point where you can keep those closed without much harm. IMO at least.

Or we could at least do small changes to make them liveable while revamps happen. I mean, on BSQ, removing the "can't happen if you have a psychic/poison type" part and giving magmortar an item not named nanab berry. And for HA giving MC to allocate would do the trick for now.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

There goes my three months of training. Guess I was a Slowbro +_+

 

[Its_A_Random]

Gale do not make a useless post lol unless you are generally objecting to this in which case you should expand... >_>

That said if anyone has a serious objection to Frosty's post, make your objection now since dogfish and I evidently do not object to it.

Also a new topic I guess:

Log

[10:01] <@~Its_A_Random> what do ppl think of the following
[10:02] <@Zarator> no I don't agree
[10:02] <@~Its_A_Random> 1) Being allowed to use healing items mid-battle at the cost of a Pokémon's action.
[10:02] <@~Its_A_Random> 2) Giving TLR Switch = OK with the ability to use Switch = OK and Switch = KO effects of a move
[10:02] <@~Its_A_Random> both pertaining to tlr
[10:03] <@~Its_A_Random> they are both quite radical changes that can clearly benefit the player
[10:03] <@~Its_A_Random> but are they too good to allow
[10:03] <@Zarator> I'd say yes both to (1) and (2), mainly because
[10:03] <@Zarator> They reflect in-game
[10:04] <@~Its_A_Random> and allow the player to make interesting choices
[10:04] <@Zarator> yeah
[10:04] <@Zarator> Also makes the benchmons way more useful
[10:04] <@~Its_A_Random> "Oh no my healers about to die"
[10:05] <@~Its_A_Random> "I should use that potion I never used to keep it alive"
[10:05] <@~Its_A_Random> the idea of 1) is that
[10:05] <@~Its_A_Random> at the cost of a Pokémon's action, you can use an item on any mon on the field, active and reserve
[10:06] <@~Its_A_Random> in the case of say a revive
[10:06] <@~Its_A_Random> and you only have two living mons
[10:06] <@~Its_A_Random> that item effect will take place at the end of the round
[10:07] <@~Its_A_Random> 2) allows players to change a bad matchup
[10:07] <@~Its_A_Random> and be able to keep healers fresh until they need them
[10:07] <@~Its_A_Random> of course
[10:07] <@~Its_A_Random> this means that you can no longer use volt switch to remove taunt
[10:07] <@~Its_A_Random> so to counteract that
[10:08] <@~Its_A_Random> players can use either the KO effect or the OK effect in TLR
[10:08] <@~Its_A_Random> with OK being the default if not specified
[10:08] VirajVora (Mibbit@799BC684.87960629.A6D5C7A3.IP) joined #capasb.
[10:09] <@~Its_A_Random> and also allows the opponents to use roar to force something the opponent does not want in
[10:10] <@Zarator> I guess
[10:11] <VirajVora> !asbility magic guard
[10:11] <VirajVora> !asbility trace
[10:11] <@~Its_A_Random> the other thing is that
[10:11] <@~Its_A_Random> it also allows more freedom in difficulty
[10:12] <@~Its_A_Random> since otherwise really hard tlrs like the planets fury
[10:12] <VirajVora> !asbility own tempo
[10:12] <@~Its_A_Random> would be more manageable

Basically two really radical proposals (that coincidentally match in-game but I am not using it as a reason) that benefit the challenger that I am putting forward:

• The ability to use items in battle at the cost of a Pokémon's action.
• TLR combat becomes Switch = OK and the ability to use either the Switch = OK or Switch = KO effect of a move with such effects.

Main justification in the log which comes down to allowing the player to make more interesting decisions and helping with regards to the difficulty though it does not mean the TLR's will be easier. Also I really do not think TLR's would become easy mode as it might seem either especially since it costs an action to use an item even if the item is nine times out of ten heal pulse on crack.

Thoughts?

 

[tavok]

Apart from revive which you already mentioned, would
the items be used with some kind of priority, or would they be used at the time the Pokémon using the action would move? Also, would you be able to do so while ordering first and second? And if yes, would the TLR referees be able to sub for that (maybe with extra subs)?? Oh, and could one use "IF x THEN use y on z" as a sub?

 

[Its_A_Random]

Highest priority, can be subbed for and then used as part of a sub.

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

For recovery items being used during Battle Phase:

I think we can have a Recovery Round, similar to capture round, where the trainer can heal pokemon mid battle. This can be limited to once during the battle and this way the TLR ref would not be blind sided by the recovery.

As for Switch = OK:

I really like the concept, but it should not be free to the trainers. If Switch phase is initialized then all active wild pokemon can get a chill / recovery move option. Since they cannot counter switch and stuff. This is to make sure the refs have some counter play.

For BSC revamp:

I feel that it is still challenging for the folks who have joined ASB recently and do not have a lot of TLR experience.
Geodude has been wiped out twice, Engi was wiped out once and these are the ones I know of, there could be more. I am not saying that we don't do a revamp of it, but Imo, we should give a time frame of say one month or so (or may be 2 weeks) for anyone who is interested in challenging the current BSC before the revamp.

 

[Birkal]

There's no need to limit anything. The limitation is that it costs a valuable action during a battle. When you use items outside of battle, they cost zero actions. You'd have to have a pretty good reason for using one in battle (e.g. avoiding death when ordering second) to justify wasting the action. There are probably some codifications that would need to be worked out, like using Snatch or Bodyblock or whatever obscure stuff is out there, but it shouldn't break anything. I think most adventurers would rather use them outside of combat anyways.

 

[Maxim]

For recovery items being used during Battle Phase:

I think we can have a Recovery Round, similar to capture round, where the trainer can heal pokemon mid battle. This can be limited to once during the battle and this way the TLR ref would not be blind sided by the recovery.

As for Switch = OK:

I really like the concept, but it should not be free to the trainers. If Switch phase is initialized then all active wild pokemon can get a chill / recovery move option. Since they cannot counter switch and stuff. This is to make sure the refs have some counter play.

For BSC revamp:

I feel that it is still challenging for the folks who have joined ASB recently and do not have a lot of TLR experience.
Geodude has been wiped out twice, Engi was wiped out once and these are the ones I know of, there could be more. I am not saying that we don't do a revamp of it, but Imo, we should give a time frame of say one month or so (or may be 2 weeks) for anyone who is interested in challenging the current BSC before the revamp.

On Engi's run...iirc it was either before TLR data was public or was the run I reffed where he did not wipe, but wiped out the Heatran. Yay...wait that's not something to be proud of is it?

On a more serious note, I agree with Birkal. If you're using a healing item in a battle, you're giving up an action that you could be using to actually be hurting the encounter. Switching I'm less sure about, simply because I think a free recovery might be a wee bit hard for the player to deal with, but I do not have any better ideas in that regard.

Finally, I actually do have a HA revamp in the works right now. I...haven't actually changed that much though, mostly just streamlined the encounters that were already there and removed a few (like Bibarel) that were putting the rp past the days limit. Main change there will probably be the Pokemon movesets, as I feel the difficulty is fine as it is. Right now I'm just waiting on somebody with power to actually post the darn thing and get the profiles up.

 

[Its_A_Random]

There's no need to limit anything. The limitation is that it costs a valuable action during a battle. When you use items outside of battle, they cost zero actions. You'd have to have a pretty good reason for using one in battle (e.g. avoiding death when ordering second) to justify wasting the action. There are probably some codifications that would need to be worked out, like using Snatch or Bodyblock or whatever obscure stuff is out there, but it shouldn't break anything. I think most adventurers would rather use them outside of combat anyways.

Given item usage will be of the highest priority in a given action, it will avoid snatch and bodyblock altogether, thus making most interactions with moves unnecessary. When I get home from uni, maybe I can hammer out a proper command for this.

 

[Its_A_Random]

For recovery items being used during Battle Phase:

I think we can have a Recovery Round, similar to capture round, where the trainer can heal pokemon mid battle. This can be limited to once during the battle and this way the TLR ref would not be blind sided by the recovery.

As for Switch = OK:

I really like the concept, but it should not be free to the trainers. If Switch phase is initialized then all active wild pokemon can get a chill / recovery move option. Since they cannot counter switch and stuff. This is to make sure the refs have some counter play.

No Recovery Phase is the intent wrt Switches. When you order first in a round, you can swap out a mon for another and order like normal. There is no need to add extra hoops to make what should be a simple mechanic too balanced to the point that the player does not want to switch; What is the point of including a new mechanic when no one might use it because of the downsides?

Also no Item Phase for obvious reasons... >_>
Seriously, with the ability to sub for it and the cost of an action, I am certain the original proposal for this is balanced enough and caters for risk vs. reward.

-----

Anyhow with the Items thing:

On Items

During TLR, you can use items at any time during your run. There are two different modes for this: Items outside of combat, and Items during combat.

Outside of Combat

Players can use items except for Poké Balls, swap hold items, and toss items away at any time outside of TLR combat. The player can do an unlimited amount of these actions during a non-combat update and have the highest priority, occurring before the outcome of an update.

During Combat

During the middle of combat, with the exception of a trapping phase, the player can either initiate a Capture Phase by throwing Poké Balls or use a consumable item. The capture phase is mentioned elsewhere so only the latter will be explained in detail here.

During combat, the player can forfeit one of their Pokémon's actions to use one item on any Pokémon in their party, active, reserve, or fainted, as a command:

Use Item (Command): The player gives up the Pokémon's action to use an item on the appropriate Pokémon. This command, being performed by the player, cannot be restricted by any means and can be used at any time without penalty irrespective of the conditions. If a Revive or Max Revive is used, the item's effect takes place at the end of the round as opposed to immediately. This command cannot be used during a trap phase.

Command Syntax: Use <Item> (<Target(s)>)

Type: N/A | Command Type: Universal | Target: Any appropriate Pokémon in your party | -- BAP | -- Acc | 0 EN Cost | -- Eff% | Contact: No | 100 Prio | Combo Type: None | Snatch: No | Magic Coat: No

This command can be substituted for and can be used as part of a substitution when the conditions are met, though chance and KO substitutions can only be done the next action due to priority.

-----

I guess that covers everything if we go ahead with this? Are there any actual objections to this?

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

Why do all my suggestions get hammered down? Lol

Well I have a question IAR, we are doing the revamps to increase the difficulty of TLRs for example: to make them 110% Challenging from the existing 80% challenging; and then we are introducing the Switch=OK, and Item use in battle to make it back to 100% challenging? Or is it something different?

------------------
ROFL: Blind fail #1
------------------

Switch = OK; so this also brings Self-Switching and Phasing moves in the picture.
Phasing moves on Wild mons would have its effect end of round.
Challenger's mons would have their effects till end of round, eg. Endure.
Trapping moves for Wild mons would become more important.
What happens when self-switching moves are used in Trap / Rare Encounters?

I am not arguing but just stating that these are somethings that would be impacted. I am not sure if these would cause any major imbalances, but we may have to see through some TLRs to confirm.

------------------
ROFL: Blind fail #2
------------------

Items healing; The reason I suggested Recovery round was because we don't want to introduce a Highest priority move. Ingame, Items and Switches happen at highest priority; so Items use should be something similar in ASB.

So this is what I was thinking: At the start of every round, before the challenger orders. They can use a Recovery Phase to use a recovery item on an Active / Fainted pokemon. This would remove the need for a command and the need for substitutions and priority mechanisms, Similar to switch phases.

One more question I had is, if we go through the command route; then consider this scenario:

A challenger has three active pokemon vs Guardian Encounter.
Guardians KO a mon with SE STAB on them, while ordering second. (2 active pokemon & 1 fainted pokemon)
The challenger uses an action to revive the fainted pokemon on action 1 while ordering second and then KO's the Guardieans.

Also,
Guardians KO a mon with SE STAB on them, while ordering first.
Knowing that their pokemon would be KO'd, the Challenger uses Revive on the pokemon as soon as the pokemon is KO'd in the same action.
Then the pokemon attacks the guardians on the following action.

Not arguing at all, these are just regular questions out of curiosity.

Edit: Errors >_<
Edit2: Hasty Idiocy <<

 

[Its_A_Random]

Gale you evidently did not even read my post(s) or at least, did not read them properly.

Okay lets arbitrarily increase the number of posts needed to be made in a TLR just because someone wants the item mechanic but does not want a super high priority command that is balanced by the fact that it takes an action, good idea!

Okay to be less passive aggressive, I am not a fan of any mechanic that arbitrarily increases the length of a TLR for no reason that is unbalanced and presents no opportunity cost, like your recovery phase idea. If you want to allow item usage in battle and have it be balanced, there needs to be an opportunity cost attached to it and that is what the original proposal provides by costing an action and not increasing TLR length for no real reason (update structure becomes battle begin, you heal, house orders, you order, ref, you heal and order, house orders, ref, you heal...). Even if it is only when you order first, there is still no opportunity cost associated with using them. Being against it because you have a dislike of high priority commands or consistency is not convincing anyone and you have not even provided noticeable advantages, or at least, provided advantages over what I proposed that have already been addressed.

So there are subs involved. Big deal. I really cannot see the house subbing for Use Item most of the time and Use Item subs are not as good as KO subs if there is focus-firing involved. And Revive? I already said that it does not take effect until the end of the round. Problem Solved. Read my posts.

Also in case you did not look, we are giving the option to the the OK effect OR the KO effect of a move. Again, read my posts.

The issue here is that you are suggesting an alternative and not considering the downsides of it—or rather, all the ramifications of it—and not addressing them and you are not convincing as to why it is better than the original and even not even paying attention to what has already been posted. If you cannot read what people have posted, then how are people going to take what you say seriously?

 

[Frosty]

Geodude first run was literally just Lackeys -> Guardians -> Boss. No traps, no other battles, nothing. He was wiped because he played poorly, not because it was hard enough. To give you an idea, EM is probably as hard as that with Dedenne->guardians->clefairy->boss (although the guardians are somewhat easier), and Heatran is surely no Floette-E.

On the second run he gave up because he rolled an hippowdon. Also not a parameter.

And engi won his post-open source challenge. And I reffed most of it, so I know from experience how easy it is.


So no, it isn't anywhere near how hard it should be. Heatran should be near the level of the regis (and many were wiped by guardians on the latest challenges of it), not of Floette-E.

Finally, giving a couple weeks for people to challenge it will be an incentive for people to abuse of it (come challenge it before it is harder!). Giving incentive for abuse and then closing for being prone to abuse is weird, to say the least.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Is it possible to close all non-revamped TLRs? I mean BSC and Heaven's Ascent (TPF is recent, so it isn't necessary).

Reasoning is simple: they are obsolete and much easier than the intention. I mean, if WSM and FSQ were closed because they were too evil, consistency demands that those are also closed for being too easy (or for differing a lot from the new standards). Not to mention that reffing this is a bit too frustrating -_-.

I mean, BSC was clearly made for close-source and the change to open-source means that catching Heatran became that much easier. It is basically Lackeys->Guardians->Hippowdon->Heatran and none of the traps are bad (free energy go go go) if you read the part where it says that bringing a poison type and a psychic type is recommended. And its not like those typing are a liability in any sense of the word.

As for HA....it is just a mess. A gazillion encounters, but most are weird to no end due to items and/or movepool (more than one pokemon didn't have fucking protect iirc). Not to mention that most pokemon have no MC to allocate. Easy to prepare for and the only redeeming fact is the bogus boss arena.


We have enough TLR options around, to the point where you can keep those closed without much harm. IMO at least.

Or we could at least do small changes to make them liveable while revamps happen. I mean, on BSQ, removing the "can't happen if you have a psychic/poison type" part and giving magmortar an item not named nanab berry. And for HA giving MC to allocate would do the trick for now.

Is being done.

Anyone else have any opinions / objections on switching / item rules changes? Tagging Dogfish44 for what he thinks. If there is no more objections for the next few days, I will just implement the mechanics as initially proposed.

 

[Its_A_Random]

I am going to push back the introduction of the new mechanics until a time where I get feedback on the simulation RP from the RP Committee or maybe just release it if it takes too long.

Anyhow, I have finished up a draft of Drifting Nomadic Augur and I am now looking for feedback before I release it. Any feedback (which will obviously be on paper) will be appreciated. If no feedback I will release it eventually.

 

[Birkal]

In terms of feedback for DNA, I've found a few nitpicky things while combing through it.

Picking Option B in "Understanding Perception" leads to a Solrock trap, but there is no criteria for selected Pokemon. The sentence simply reads, "Ignoring the deposit, you proceed forward, only to find a Solrock blocking your path. As if on cue, the whole Stonehenge flashed, activating Solrock's Trick Room. Looks like you are in for a fight." Probably just an oversight.

There doesn't seem to be a reward for selecting "Balancing Act" before the Guardians. Perhaps it should be looped in with the same rewards you got from "A Cold Reception" to help even things out? "Balancing Act" is pretty difficult and should probably grant a larger reward than the first two RPs. Maybe even give you a Healing Item for your trouble?

By selecting Option B in "Silent Retribution," players trigger a Swoobat trap. The text reads, "Meanwhile, your Pokémon, enraged, watches as its predator calms itself down, making itself drastically stronger. Something is going down here." I presume Swoobat is supposed to use Calm Mind or some sort of booster here? Maybe I am just reading into things.

Finally, as an opinion, Psychic Soldiers is obscenely difficult. First you fight a horde with a central mon that has no horde restrictions. Then you face a Delphox that can straight up jack your item for the entire TLR. If that wasn't enough, you then fight a Mega Metagross for kicks. Absolutely insane. While that difficulty is fine, the prizes you should get for it should be equally insane. Currently, all you get is the ability to use Taunt, plus nerfing a +1/+2 BAP boost to Psychic-type attacks. That is not a fitting prize for enduring three extra battles. Either ramp up the difficulty of the final fight if you don't pick Psychic Soldiers (e.g. hordes join the fight / stage is significantly harder), or make it a significant help to the final fight (my favorite being Deoxys can only Forme-Shift once every X actions).

All of these are just my thoughts. I'm no TLR maker, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Holy crap feedback.

In terms of feedback for DNA, I've found a few nitpicky things while combing through it.

Picking Option B in "Understanding Perception" leads to a Solrock trap, but there is no criteria for selected Pokemon. The sentence simply reads, "Ignoring the deposit, you proceed forward, only to find a Solrock blocking your path. As if on cue, the whole Stonehenge flashed, activating Solrock's Trick Room. Looks like you are in for a fight." Probably just an oversight.

Traps do not have to trap. The general rule is that they trap but sometimes they just do not trap. It is meant to be a 3v1 fight though that fight might be a tad too easy because you get to basically hammer it without too much issues. I will see what I can do.

There doesn't seem to be a reward for selecting "Balancing Act" before the Guardians. Perhaps it should be looped in with the same rewards you got from "A Cold Reception" to help even things out? "Balancing Act" is pretty difficult and should probably grant a larger reward than the first two RPs. Maybe even give you a Healing Item for your trouble?

Okay.

Do bear in mind it can be picked after the guardians but I will see what I can do.

By selecting Option B in "Silent Retribution," players trigger a Swoobat trap. The text reads, "Meanwhile, your Pokémon, enraged, watches as its predator calms itself down, making itself drastically stronger. Something is going down here." I presume Swoobat is supposed to use Calm Mind or some sort of booster here? Maybe I am just reading into things.

Swoobat's Data says "[B]TRAP: Taunt, Calm Mind[/B]"

There is your justification.

Finally, as an opinion, Psychic Soldiers is obscenely difficult. First you fight a horde with a central mon that has no horde restrictions. Then you face a Delphox that can straight up jack your item for the entire TLR. If that wasn't enough, you then fight a Mega Metagross for kicks. Absolutely insane. While that difficulty is fine, the prizes you should get for it should be equally insane. Currently, all you get is the ability to use Taunt, plus nerfing a +1/+2 BAP boost to Psychic-type attacks. That is not a fitting prize for enduring three extra battles. Either ramp up the difficulty of the final fight if you don't pick Psychic Soldiers (e.g. hordes join the fight / stage is significantly harder), or make it a significant help to the final fight (my favorite being Deoxys can only Forme-Shift once every X actions).

I would argue that the Taunt immunity removal is a significant enough effect in itself personally. Given the capture formula we have, Taunt is very powerful so as to stop the boss from chilling and forcing you to endure free rounds from attempting to capture the Deoxys. That might be an issue with the mechanics however but I will see what I can do to address the concern, whether it be toning down the difficulty of Psychic Soldiers or widening the difficulty gap for the boss depending on if you do Psychic Soldiers or not. The former is probably the best way to go about it however *coughcoughdelphoxcoughcough*.

All of these are just my thoughts. I'm no TLR maker, so take it with a grain of salt.

Do not worry, feedback is feedback. Any little bit helps.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Okay I finally got around to changing things with DNA based on the above:

• Understanding Perception: Option B now calls forth a second Solrock to make things slightly more difficult as well as a clarification with trap move usage.
• Balancing Act: Alongside the Twisted Spoon already offered on victory, the player also now gains a Super Potion upon winning.
• Psychic Soldiers: The Magician removing items permanently effect is gone, the discard item effect for Magician is clarified (Player items return to bag when discarded), and the rank buffs for each encounter have been removed.

I guess we might be good to go now? Tagging Birkal and Dogfish44.

 

[Its_A_Random]

With the beta run done, it (the item mechanic) seems to be pretty balanced for TLR purposes though it might need re-jigging for the other RP. Any objections to implementing the items mid-battle and the switch mid-battle mechanics in TLR?

Also want thoughts on implementing the following into TLR:

Purchasable

Antidote: Cures Poison and Toxic status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 1

Awakening: Cures Sleep status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 1

Burn Heal: Cures Burn status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 1

Ice Heal: Cures Freeze status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 1

Parlyz Heal: Cures Paralysis status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 1

Full Heal: Cures Poison, Toxic, Sleep, Burn, Freeze, and Paralysis status on one Pokémon.
CC Cost: 2

Dire Hit: Makes the Pokémon's attacks always score a critical hit until the battle ends or the Pokémon is switched out.
CC Cost: 2

Guard Spec.: Prevents the opponent from lowering your Pokémon's stats for four (4) rounds.
CC Cost: 2

X Accuracy: Increases the Pokémon's natural Accuracy stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

X Attack: Increases the Pokémon's natural Attack stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

X Defend: Increases the Pokémon's natural Defense stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

X Sp. Def: Increases the Pokémon's natural Special Defense stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

X Special: Increases the Pokémon's natural Special Attack stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

X Speed: Increases the Pokémon's natural Speed stat by two (2) stages.
CC Cost: 2

Rare

Lava Cookie / Old Gateau / Casteliacone / Lumiose Galette: Cures Poison, Toxic, Sleep, Burn, Freeze, and Paralysis status on one Pokémon.
Sell For: 3 CC

Also whether or not we should implement the mega broken healing item (for TLR, which I plan to have exclusively as a catch reward for Ho-Oh):

Sacred Ash: Restores all currently fainted Pokémon to 70 HP and 50 EN, active and reserve. Only one Sacred Ash can be brought into a TLR.
Sell For: 15 CC

The uncertainty over implementing Sacred Ash being over the Gym League higher end prizes eventually allowing unlimited copies of these depending on how this item is limited and whatnot.

As for the purchasable items, the status removers will get their own slot, like 2 slots Training, 3 slots Legendary, 4 slots Uber, and X-Items count in the other pocket and are unlimited.

Thoughts?

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I'm not really clear on the necessity of those items, could you elaborate?

 

[Its_A_Random]

Niche items that while largely useless from the perspective of being CC wastes most of the time, can easily be put in TLR's as a found item that helps the player if they get something like a Poison they cannot remove or giving emergency boosts (tieing in with the introduction of item usage mid-battle) that can give the player more options. The little things really, though I will not really kick up a stink if we decide not to implement them on the basis of being basically chaff.

Sacred Ash I thought would be a decent once only healing item as a prize for catching Ho-Oh like ingame but its probably not worth bothering about it because it is fairly OP (unless we nerf it dramatically) and the Gym League interaction make me nervy about it.

Also if the sim RP gets approved proper it would be nice to have a consistent list of healing items across both RP's. They are not completely necessary but they are "little things" added conveniences to the player that TLR designers could use as a reward since CC limits will probably mean they will not be bought... Yeah it is hard to justify bad things.

Though if there is any legitimate objection to Switch Changes and Items in-battle changes, I want to hear them soon.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Gonna implement the above now~

 

[Maxim]

So, this brought up a bit of a question.

While it doesn't really matter in this case, as Frosty would have nuked Malamar anyway more than likely, it does raise a bit of a concern I have. Namely, if a Boss is captured with a Master Ball, should the run end? Most that I have talked to have stated that via reffing precedence you pull out the remainder of the fight, but this seems a bit pointless since even if the player were to lose they'd still have the legend in their bag. Additionally, this line from the TLR Thread seems to suggest that the boss fight ends (Under the Boss Combat tab).

In most cases once you capture or defeat a boss, your Legend Run ends and you reap the rewards you worked so hard to get.

Since there might be debate, I'd like to propose that we make it clearer in the thread that the TLR ends as soon as the boss is captured (not sure what to do if it faints, since there might be the odd case of the trainer wanting the guardian as a consolation prize)

Dogfish44 JJayyFeather

 

[JJayyFeather]

0 debate as there is previous precedent for a case like this. I'll grab a link later but the run in particular is Elevator Music's Regigigas run, where he caught the Regi with a Master Ball and then proceeded to also catch the guardian that I cannot remember off the top.

Additionally that quote does say "in most cases." No combat ends until all pokemon on one side are out of the fight, by one means or another