Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Da Pizza Man]

Serebii's event page for Hoopa says its event doesn't start until 18th July though: http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/720.shtml

Which would make sense cos that's when the movie releases. Where is the information coming from saying it's released today?

http://www.pokemon-movie.jp/topics/filmPreview.php although this is in Japanese so somebody will need to translate it

It's also on bulbapedia

 

[Shiyo]

Serebii's event page for Hoopa says its event doesn't start until 18th July though: http://www.serebii.net/events/dex/720.shtml

Which would make sense cos that's when the movie releases. Where is the information coming from saying it's released today?

This: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/w...on_distributions_in_Generation_VI#Movie_Hoopa

Games Method Region Location Duration
XYORAS local wireless all Tokyo Dome City Hall, Tokyo, Japan July 5, 2015
XYORAS local wireless all Mido-kaikan Great Hall, Osaka Prefecture, Japan July 5, 2015
XYORAS local wireless all Movie theaters, Japan July 18 to September 30, 2015


But you can not traded for wifi, or used in wifi battles until 18th. Or so I believe.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

This: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_local_event_Pokémon_distributions_in_Generation_VI#Movie_Hoopa

Games Method Region Location Duration
XYORAS local wireless all Tokyo Dome City Hall, Tokyo, Japan July 5, 2015
XYORAS local wireless all Mido-kaikan Great Hall, Osaka Prefecture, Japan July 5, 2015
XYORAS local wireless all Movie theaters, Japan July 18 to September 30, 2015


But you can not traded for wifi, or used in wifi battles until 18th. Or so I believe.

Seriously, if so then I guess we are still going to have to wait until July 18th

 

[vyomov]

Most people agree that Hoopa-Unbound is practically set for Ubers, but what do you guys think about normal Hoopa? While it's typing isn't too great defensively and it's speed is mediocre at best, 150 SpA with a LO attached is going to hit like a truck, it's special defense is decent enough for a few hits and 110 Atk allows it to run a mixed attacking set:
252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 251-296 (39 - 46.1%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I don't think it'll be broken, but definitely a huge threat to prepare for at the least, especially for stall(NP Hoopa decimates stall)

 

[Jojobobo]

I'm not sure that Hoopa-Confined won't also have too many viable sets to mean it won't be banned as well. It can run mixed or special Trick Scarf to outspeed a lot of U-turn users and fast pokemon in general (you're faster than Weavile for example), it can run sub to avoid Sucker Punches and OHKOes from Ghost/Dark/hard priority switch-ins and OHKO with the ghost STAB or coverage against the likes of Bisharp and Weavile - and last but not least it still has NP meaning it can still rip through most of the walls stall has to throw at it (particularly if you're running Modest and LO).

Yes, the weaknesses are a bit glaring and the bulk isn't great - but there's so much going on there even Confined might be too strong. In terms of those sets I've mentioned, I think sub and stall-breaker would be best if it doesn't get banned.

 

[ArcanePhoenix]

In my opinion its pretty much a one-slot solution to stall (like we need more stallbreaker but whatever).
150 Base with Ghost Stab is no joke and can destroy almost anything on its own.
Shadowball + Focusblast is unresisted.
For stall this thing is a problem but HO and Balance should not have too many problems facing it.
I might test it with Sub|Nasty|Shadow|Focus and leave HO and balance to my other 5 mons.

 

[teamjohto]

252 SpA Life Orb Hoopa Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 251-296 (39 - 46.1%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I don't think it'll be broken, but definitely a huge threat to prepare for at the least, especially for stall(NP Hoopa decimates stall)

I'm not even sure if Life Orb or Specs will be widely run on Hoopa, With 80/60 on his physical defenses, and a poor 70 speed making him equivalent to an Alakazam without the amazing speed tier, I suspect most people will be running focus sash on him to prevent from getting blown up by an offensive dark move that's already common enough in the current meta to deal with hoopa no problem.

Also his speed is going to plague him as his only speed "boosting" move is Trick Room. This could give him a lot of tricks to pull off in doubles, but he's gonna struggle in singles with only so long to make things happen on his own. Because even in trick room, shadow sneak users are still going to have fun in tearing Hoopa apart.

Like if he got agility we'd be looking at a good setup sweeper that can hit harder and move faster than Alakazam, but barring him from any real speed boosts is just mean.

 

[Norne]

I'm not even sure if Life Orb or Specs will be widely run on Hoopa, With 80/60 on his physical defenses, and a poor 70 speed making him equivalent to an Alakazam without the amazing speed tier, I suspect most people will be running focus sash on him to prevent from getting blown up by an offensive dark move that's already common enough in the current meta to deal with hoopa no problem.

Also his speed is going to plague him as his only speed "boosting" move is Trick Room. This could give him a lot of tricks to pull of in doubles, but he's gonna struggle in singles with only so long to make things happen on his own. Because even in trick room, shadow sneak users are still going to have fun in tearing Hoopa apart.

Like if he got agility we'd be looking at a good setup sweeper that can hit harder and move faster than Alakazam, but barring him from any real speed boosts is just mean.

Substitute is one way around those weakness, I predict that sub lo would be one of its most common sets along AV.

 

[Karxrida]

I'm not even sure if Life Orb or Specs will be widely run on Hoopa, With 80/60 on his physical defenses, and a poor 70 speed making him equivalent to an Alakazam without the amazing speed tier, I suspect most people will be running focus sash on him to prevent from getting blown up by an offensive dark move that's already common enough in the current meta to deal with hoopa no problem.

Also his speed is going to plague him as his only speed "boosting" move is Trick Room. This could give him a lot of tricks to pull off in doubles, but he's gonna struggle in singles with only so long to make things happen on his own. Because even in trick room, shadow sneak users are still going to have fun in tearing Hoopa apart.

Like if he got agility we'd be looking at a good setup sweeper that can hit harder and move faster than Alakazam, but barring him from any real speed boosts is just mean.

Focus Sash is a bad item for Hoopa because it should not be dealing with Dark-types and requiring hazard removal on top of that is unnecessary.

Doubles usage isn't really relevant to this discussion, plus Shadow Sneak users are non-existent in either format so I don't even know why you'd bring it up.

Substitute is one way around those weakness, I predict that sub lo would be one of its most common sets along AV.

Leftovers would be far better for Stallbreaking purposes, it doesn't really need a Life Orb. If Aegislash taught us anything, 150 Special Attack with a good neutral STAB is good enough for nuking switch-ins even without one.

 

[Tymano]

One thing I've noticed is that hoopa is kind of stradled for moveslots, as it should be running Dual stabs (psyshock/shadow ball) FB if it wants to beat darks, TBolt to beat Talon and Torn-T, EBall to bear bulky grounds, Trick room to get the speed advantage, NP to beat Sableye (which it flat out loses to if its the utility set, but can beat calm mind pre boost) and substitute to live any physical hit. This means that it can only be as effective as possible if it runs 8 moves, which it can't, meaning that it will always lose against some top-tier threat.

 

[Albacore]

One thing I've noticed is that hoopa is kind of stradled for moveslots, as it should be running Dual stabs (psyshock/shadow ball) FB if it wants to beat darks, TBolt to beat Talon and Torn-T, EBall to bear bulky grounds, Trick room to get the speed advantage, NP to beat Sableye (which it flat out loses to if its the utility set, but can beat calm mind pre boost) and substitute to live any physical hit. This means that it can only be as effective as possible if it runs 8 moves, which it can't, meaning that it will always lose against some top-tier threat.

Except Talon and Torn-T take like 80% from Psyshock even when running bulky sets, and actually take less or only slightly more from TBolt (though it does hit Mandibuzz which you didn't mention), Sableye and Hippo only switch into Shadow Ball when running max SpD which they rarely do (the only other bulky ground EBall hits I can think of is like, Gastrodon which is easily overwhelmed by NP so I don't understand why Eball is mentioned), TR sounds terrible and a complete waste of a moveslot, Sub is nice but far from necessary, so in the end literally all it needs to hit everything in OU hard are STABs+Focus Blast so I don't think I follow?

 

[Punchshroom]

One thing I've noticed is that hoopa is kind of stradled for moveslots, as it should be running Dual stabs (psyshock/shadow ball) FB if it wants to beat darks, TBolt to beat Talon and Torn-T, EBall to bear bulky grounds, Trick room to get the speed advantage, NP to beat Sableye (which it flat out loses to if its the utility set, but can beat calm mind pre boost) and substitute to live any physical hit. This means that it can only be as effective as possible if it runs 8 moves, which it can't, meaning that it will always lose against some top-tier threat.

Wait, why would Hoopa need Tbolt and EBall at all? Psyshock hits your Tbolt targets just fine even if they are specially defensive / AV respectively, while most Ground-types either take chunks from Shadow Ball or aren't even weak to Grass.

Hoopa's most likely flagship set would probably be NP + 3 attacks, which would basically tear slower, bulkier teams a giant new asshole XP, with Sub giving Hoopa the occasional edge against offense.

 

[Alphanex20]

I'm looking forward to Hoopa, but not as a sweeper, tbh. If anything, I was thinking a lure set of Sub + 3 Attacks...

Hoopa-Confined Leftovers

Timid Nature (needed to outpace Adamant Sharp and Jolly TTar)

EVs: 252 SAtk 4 SDef 252 Spe

Substitute

Shadow Ball

Psyshock/Hyperspace Hole (HH helps against Wish + Protect users, FWIW, along with hitting Chesnaught harder)

Focus Blast


I was thinking "what gives the little guy problems?" and realized the Pursuit + Sucker Punch Trap was a big one along with Scarfed Pursuit. But what beats that? Sub + Focus Blast! Basically on any predicted switch you Sub, and then proceed to FB any dark type (or raw switch and let them Pursuit the Sub, if you are really paranoid about Focus Miss). It's nice for having a way of removing TTar or Bisharp and in general just hitting offense. You also can't be Hyper Voiced that easily because of Hoopa's decent base 130 SDef, so M-Gard won't stomp you through. It's not amazing against defensive teams, but you are immune to SToss and can (with Hyperspace Hole) handle Wish + Protect more easily. With the ghost typing you could run hazard stacking--mainly TSpikes to help with walls--since you beat all of OU's spinners (albeit no defoggers...) and being a Psychic Type you handle Poison-Types well (needless to say).

EDIT: I know this is gimmicky, but could Colbur Berry + Magician be a thing for offensive sets? (I can hear the facepalms already...)

 

[Celticpride]

Alphanex20 I wouldn't see Colbur Berry as a weird possibility although it probably won't be standard. Weakness berries are very effective at surprising certain opponents and crippling and/or killing them. Chople TTar with Thunder Wave for example has seen somewhat frequent use to surprise Fighting types that think they can beat it clean. Other examples include Coba Berry Serp with HP Rock (to beat Talonflame), Shuca Berry Heatran, and Babiri Clefable with Thunder Wave. Even allowing Colbur Hoppa to escape Purusit just once can be extremely valuable, as that allows you one look into how liberally or conservatively your opponent uses their Pursuit trapper.

 

[Alphanex20]

Alphanex20 I wouldn't see Colbur Berry as a weird possibility although it probably won't be standard. Weakness berries are very effective at surprising certain opponents and crippling and/or killing them. Chople TTar with Thunder Wave for example has seen somewhat frequent use to surprise Fighting types that think they can beat it clean. Other examples include Coba Berry Serp with HP Rock (to beat Talonflame), Shuca Berry Heatran, and Babiri Clefable with Thunder Wave. Even allowing Colbur Hoppa to escape Purusit just once can be extremely valuable, as that allows you one look into how liberally or conservatively your opponent uses their Pursuit trapper.

Yeah I got ya, I honestly just wanted a way to abuse Magician XD. My thought was, "Oh, I'll take a hit with the berry then snatch an item!" But then I realized that you'd be more likely to just flatten the TTar/Bisharp with Focus Miss Blast. Sure Bisharp can't Sucker you as easily, but I found that Sub works better (and you outspeed Adamant Sharps anyway). And if you snatch a TTar's Scarf, that can be a mixed bag (especially considering every move Hoopa uses has something immune to it, i.e., Shadow Ball and Focus Blast BOTH can't touch Chesnaught).

But weirdly enough it ties into something else about Hoopa. I don't know if it'll be a good sweeper, but so far it's looking like a good lure, IMO. It can fool you more than anything else--which is in character for a genie, if you ask me.