Resource ORAS OU Sets Viability Rankings V4 (See Post #229: Page 10)

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bludz

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ORAS OU Sets Viability Ranking Thread V4

Approved by AM
Stolen from theurbandear who stole it from Recreant who stole it from Valmanway


The goal of this thread is to individually rank the viable sets of each Pokemon that has a niche in the ORAS OU environment as a community. We will try to rank every viable set, so if you think a specific set should be added, please say so. Of course, you are also welcome to comment on the rankings of the individual sets that are already posted in the thread. Please discuss things freely!

Current VR Sets Council:
bludz, theurbandear, KlefkiHolder, Mur
and AM is our secret buddy

Before you post keep in mind these few rules:

1. Only Pokemon that are ranked on the current viability ranking thread will be ranked here. This is not the place for new nominations; however, all Pokemon in the main thread will be ranked here, no matter how small their niche.

2. A Pokemon's sets cannot be ranked higher than the Pokemon is on the main viability thread - i.e. Choice Band Azumarill cannot be S rank here because Azu is only A+ rank there.

3. Post intelligently and try to provide justification for any nominations you make. One liners will be ignored.

All right, I think that about covers it. If anyone wants to make or give a banner, it would be much appreciated. Feel free to PM me any questions or concerns and happy posting!

ORAS OU Sets Viability Rankings

S Rank:

S Rank

Clefable

Magic Guard + Calm Mind: S
Support: A+
Unaware Cleric: A
Life Orb Offensive: A-

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Diancie (Mega)
Protect: A+
Rock Polish: A-

Keldeo
Choice Specs: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Calm Mind: A
RestTalk: A

Landorus-T
Defensive Stealth Rock: A+
Offensive Stealth Rock: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Double Dance: A

Latios
Special Wallbreaker: A+
Calm Mind: A+
Choice Scarf: A-

Rotom-W
Pivot: A+

Scizor (Mega)
Bulky Swords Dance: A+
Offensive Swords Dance: A+
Pursuit: A
Defog: B+

Tornadus-T
Life Orb A+
Assault Vest A+

A Rank
Azumarill
Choice Band: A
Belly Drum: A
Assault Vest: A-

Charizard (Mega-X)
Dragon Dance: A
Bulky Will-O-Wisp: A-

Excadrill
Sand Rush Sweeper: A
Choice Scarf: B+
Bulky: B-

Ferrothorn
Utility: A

Garchomp
Offensive: A
Tank: A
Choice Scarf: A-
Sub SD: B

Heatran
Utility: A
Offensive: A
Choice Scarf: A-

Lopunny (Mega)
Physical Sweeper: A

Manaphy
Tail Glow + 3 Attacks: A
Tail Glow + Rain Dance: A
Calm Mind: B

Medicham (Mega)
Wallbreaker: A

Sableye (Mega)
Utility: A
Calm Mind: A-

Slowbro
Calm Mind: A
Defensive: A

Talonflame
Offensive Swords Dance: A
Specially Defensive: A

Tyranitar
Choice Scarf: A
Choice Band: A
Support: A-

Volcanion
Special Wallbreaker: A

Weavile
Physical Sweeper: A

A- Rank
Alakazam (Mega)
Special Attacker: A-

Bisharp
Swords Dance: A-
Pursuit: B+

Charizard (Mega-Y)
Special Wallbreaker: A-


Gardevoir (Mega)
Special Wallbreaker: A-

Gliscor
Swords Dance: A-
Stallbreaker: B+
Defensive Utility: B+
SubToxic: B-

Gyarados (Mega)
Dragon Dance: A-

Heracross (Mega)
Physical Wallbreaker: A-

Jirachi
Choice Scarf: A-
Specially Defensive: B+
Expert Belt: B
SubToxic: B

Latias (Mega)
Speedy Tank: A-

Metagross (Mega)
All Out Attacker: A-
Rock Polish: B

Pinsir (Mega)
Physical Sweeper: A-

Serperior
SubSeed: A-
Special Sweeper: A-

Skarmory
Specially Defensive: A-
Physically Defensive: A-

Slowbro (Mega)
Calm Mind: A-

Thundurus
Prankster Utility: A-
Nasty Plot: A-
Mixed Attacker: A-

Venusaur (Mega)
Defensive: A-
Offensive: A-

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)

Revenge Killer: B+

Altaria (Mega)

Defensive Dragon Dance: B+
Offensive Dragon Dance: B+
Specially Based Offensive Tank: B+
Support: B

Amoonguss
Pivot: B+

Chansey
Blob: B+

Gengar

Special Wallbreaker: B+
Hex: B

Klefki
Utility: B+


Kyurem-B
Life Orb Mixed Attacker: B+
Choice Specs: B+
Choice Band: B+
Choice Scarf: B

Latias
Offensive Utility: B+

Magnezone
Choice Scarf: B+
Choice Specs: B

Utility Trapper: B-

Manectric (Mega)
Offensive Pivot: B+

Mew
Stallbreaker: B+
Utility: B
Lure: B-

Starmie
Offensive Spinner: B+
Defensive Spinner: B

Suicune
Calm Mind: B+

Tangrowth

Physically Defensive: B+
Assault Vest: B

Terrakion
Choice Band: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Swords Dance: B

B Rank
Alakazam
Life Orb: B
Focus Sash: B-

Breloom
Life Orb: B
Focus Sash: B-
Poison Heal: C+

Dragonite
Dragon Dance: B
Choice Band: B-

Gastrodon
Curse: B
Defensive: B-

Gyarados

Dragon Dance: B

Hippowdon
Mixed Wall: B

Kingdra
Choice Specs: B
Life Orb: B-

Nidoking
Special Wallbreaker: B

Politoed
Bulky Rain Support: B

Quagsire
Unaware Wall: B

Raikou
Calm Mind: B
Choice Specs: B
Assault Vest: B-

Reuniclus
Calm Mind: B
Offensive Trick Room: C+

Slowking
Calm Mind: B
Defensive: B-
Assault Vest: B-

Togekiss
Stallbreaker: B
Defensive: B-

Volcarona
Offensive Quiver Dance: B

Bulky Quiver Dance: C

B- Rank
Alomomola
Fat Fish: B-

Celebi
Baton Pass: B-
Support: B-
Offensive: C+

Crawdaunt
Physical Wallbreaker: B-

Diggersby
Physical Wallbreaker: B-
Choice Scarf: C

Dragalge
Offensive Toxic Spikes: B-
Specially Defensive: B-
Choice Specs: C+

Garchomp (Mega)

Swords Dance: B-
Mixed Attacker: B-

Hydreigon
Life Orb: B-
Choice Scarf: C+

Kabutops
Rain Sweeper: B-

Mamoswine
Physical Wallbreaker: B-

Mandibuzz
Utility: B-

Metagross
Assault Vest: B-

Scizor
Swords Dance: B-
Choice Band: B-
Defog: C

Swampert (Mega)
Rain Sweeper: B-

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Beedrill (Mega)
Revenge Killer: C+

Empoleon
Utility: C+

Gallade (Mega)
Swords Dance: C+

Hawlucha
Sub SD: C+

Infernape
Defensive: C+
Offensive: C+

Lucario
Swords Dance: C+

Omastar
Rain Sweeper: C+

Sceptile (Mega)
Cleaner: C+

Scolipede

Baton Pass: C+
Offensive Cleaner: C+
Hazard Setter: C

Sharpedo (Mega)
Cleaner: C+

Tentacruel
Rapid Spin: C+

Thundurus-T
Agility (includes Double Dance): C+
Nasty Plot: C
Choice Scarf: C-

Victini
Choice Specs: C+
Expert Belt: C+
Choice Band: C+

Zapdos
Defog: C+

Zygarde
Dragon Dance: C+
SubCoil: C

C Rank
Azelf
Suicide Lead: C

Entei

Choice Band: C

Feraligatr
Dragon Dance: C

Jellicent
Defensive: C

Pidgeot (Mega)
Special Wallbreaker: C
Stallbreaker: C

Seismitoad
Defensive Utility: C

Toxicroak
Swords Dance: C
Tyranitar (Mega)
Dragon Dance: C

C- Rank
Aggron (Mega)
Tank: C-

Blastoise (Mega)
Rapid Spin: C-

Chesnaught
Defensive: C-
Belly Drum: D

Cobalion
Bulky Pivot: C-

Cofagrigus
Defensive: C-
Trick Room: C-

Conkeldurr
Assault Vest: C-
Life Orb: C-

Goodra

Special Wallbreaker: C-
Assault Vest: D


Hoopa
Choice Specs: C-

Magneton
Choice Scarf: C-

Rotom-H
Defensive: C-

Staraptor
Wallbreaker: C-

D Rank:
Ampharos (Mega)
Defensive: D
Offensive: D

Blissey
Blob: D

Bronzong
Utility: D

Cloyster
Shell Smash: D

Cresselia

Defensive: D
Trick Room: D


Dugtrio
Trapper: D

Houndoom (Mega)
Nasty Plot: D

Kyurem
SubRoost: D

Porygon2
Mixed Wall: D

Rhyperior
Choice Band: D
Defensive: D

Sylveon
Choice Specs: D

Roserade
Utility: D

Sableye
Utility: D

Shedinja
Can't Touch This: D

Tyrantrum

Dragon Dance: D
Choice Band: D
Choice Scarf: D


Whimsicott

Utility: D
 
Last edited:

bludz

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Okay thread's open for business you can make any nominations you want.

To guide the discussion though, I have some discussion points:

Hoopa-U: All sets
Hoopa-C: All sets
Klefki: Dual Screens B+ -> B
Kingdra: Life Orb B -> B+
Victini: Choice Band B+ -> B
Tangrowth: Defensive Unranked -> C
Azelf: Dual Screens B- -> C+
Chesnaught: Belly Drum C- -> D

Hoopa in particular because we haven't seen enough of it I feel has some kinda undetermined sets (especially Hoopa C) so those would be the main focus if anything.

If you want my reasoning for any of these noms let me know. Also just so you guys know we have not finished revamping C and D ranks yet.
 
Okay, first thing I want to petition for:
Assault Vest Conk | B- -> C

It's just... Underwhelming in this meta. Life Orb Sheer Force nets KOs, acts as a great lure, and can punch giant holes in any team. Assault Vest Guts Conk just can't do that. You need to rely on someone burning or poisoning you to be as effective as possible, so basically, the AV Guts set relies on what your opponents team runs. No Status? Well then you're not nearly as useful.

So not only is the set situational to a stupid degree, but it also lacks the immense raw power that Life Orb Sheer Force brings. Here are some calcs:

Against Skarmory:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 185-218 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 110-130 (32.9 - 38.9%) -- 8.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Azu:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 385-455 (106 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Azumarill: 242-286 (66.6 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Against Hippowdon:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 226-268 (53.8 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 134-158 (31.9 - 37.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Against Defensive Unaware Clefable:
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So I've made my point. Guts AV Conk can be useful as a Status Absorber, yeah, but there are much better status absorbers out there. Also, if you need to clear other Status inflictions on your teammates, i.e Paralysis or Burns, then you also need to get rid of Conk's status, which is the entire reason you'd run Guts AV Conk.

Honestly there's no reason to still use Guts AV Conk any more. It misses out on the immediate and insane power than Life Orb Sheer Force Conk has, and it's beyond situational. Life Orb Sheer Force Conk breaks walls and can also bluff the AV set, so the argument of it "Being a status absorber" can be countered by "LOSF Conk can bluff Guts to scare people out of statusing".
 
Manaphy


Tail Glow Rain Dance Should Be S it shreds most poorly built balance teams and can shred usually goth less stall's and even cm rain dance can shred offensive teams.

Tail Glow + 3 Attacks is not as threatening as rain sense it now lacks recovery and can be easily revenged killed.

Working atm sry for basic stuff
 

Martin

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I know these aren't discussion points, but I'm just looking through this and I have seen a few things. Sorry if parts of this feel knitpicky :/
  • Venusaur is in C, but Chlorophyll Sweeper is in D? This should be C, as it is literally its only set.
  • I remember when Forretress was nominated for ranking on the main viability rankings. Unless I am horribly misremembering, that was for its Custap set. Why is the horrifically outclassed defensive set ranked but the entire reason to use it in OU (Custap+Spin+2 hazards+explosion) not?
 

bludz

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Fixed the Venusaur thing (m00ns just pointed it out to me).

I think Forretress was actually being overhyped for the Custap set and it was only ever ranked for the Defensive set. We haven't revamped ranks C through D yet so don't quote me on that. You'd probably have to ask a member of the VR thread (not for sets) to get the reasoning on that.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I know these aren't discussion points, but I'm just looking through this and I have seen a few things. Sorry if parts of this feel knitpicky :/
  • Venusaur is in C, but Chlorophyll Sweeper is in D? This should be C, as it is literally its only set.
  • I remember when Forretress was nominated for ranking on the main viability rankings. Unless I am horribly misremembering, that was for its Custap set. Why is the horrifically outclassed defensive set ranked but the entire reason to use it in OU (Custap+Spin+2 hazards+explosion) not?
You are indeed horribly misremembering, because Forretress is in C- for its defensive set
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v3-read-post-2928-page-118-c-and-below-discussion.3536420/page-17#post-6205233
 

Mannat

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SD TW Zardx, Specs Tran, Offensive CM Keld, Endeavor Keld, Destiny Bond Gengar and a few other sets are missing.

Also, SubNP Hoopa C should be ranked because of how good it is against stall (ghost psychic being>ghost dark vs stall)
 

bludz

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SD TW Zardx, Specs Tran, Offensive CM Keld, Endeavor Keld, Destiny Bond Gengar and a few other sets are missing
SD TW Zard = Double Dance

Specs Tran is bad, IMO. If there's enough support maybe we'll rank it.

I listed Keld as CM, not SubCM so that includes all CM variants. I am not listing Endeavor Keldeo.

Destiny Bond is a slash on Gengar's Life Orb set.
 

Mannat

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SD TW Zard = Double Dance

Specs Tran is bad, IMO. If there's enough support maybe we'll rank it.

I listed Keld as CM, not SubCM so that includes all CM variants. I am not listing Endeavor Keldeo.

Destiny Bond is a slash on Gengar's Life Orb set.
I didnt see double dance ;~;, and thanks for the clerification on the other sets.
 
Okay thread's open for business you can make any nominations you want.

To guide the discussion though, I have some discussion points:

Hoopa-U: All sets
Hoopa-C: All sets
Klefki: Dual Screens B+ -> B
Kingdra: Life Orb B -> B+
Victini: Choice Band B+ -> B
Tangrowth: Defensive Unranked -> C
Azelf: Dual Screens B- -> C+
Chesnaught: Belly Drum C- -> D

Hoopa in particular because we haven't seen enough of it I feel has some kinda undetermined sets (especially Hoopa C) so those would be the main focus if anything.

If you want my reasoning for any of these noms let me know. Also just so you guys know we have not finished revamping C and D ranks yet.
My only issue with this is chesnaught. I have used it extensively and found it to be actually very effective. After the salac boost, it is capable of outspeeding base 120's and it is insanely powerful. It can be difficult to pull off properly, and it is held back at times by its weakness to Tflame's brave bird, it is outsped by most common scarfers, however it's typing lets it resist a lot of these scarfers and NOTHING can safely switch in on it. It's not perfect by any means, but I would not put it at D by any means. I have had much success mid-ladder using it, and I am no CTC. It only usually gets one shot at sweeping, but so does geoxern, and it is easily one of the most potent threats in Ubers. Not saying they are exactly the same, but the point remains. That isn't enough to make it D-rank.
 
Okay, first thing I want to petition for:
Assault Vest Conk | B- -> C

It's just... Underwhelming in this meta. Life Orb Sheer Force nets KOs, acts as a great lure, and can punch giant holes in any team. Assault Vest Guts Conk just can't do that. You need to rely on someone burning or poisoning you to be as effective as possible, so basically, the AV Guts set relies on what your opponents team runs. No Status? Well then you're not nearly as useful.
Well, I will have to disagree with you here. Actually having Guts vs bluffing it is a major advantage for the AV set - status absorption is hugely helpful for a number of teams. Speaking of, AV is also more splashable just in terms of what teams it can be found on, mainly because of the additional longevity AV provides. I could maybe see a drop to C+ on the basis of the significant drop in power, but I think both sets are fine in B-.

Manaphy

Tail Glow Rain Dance Should Be S it shreds most poorly built balance teams and can shred usually goth less stall's and even cm rain dance can shred offensive teams.

Tail Glow + 3 Attacks is not as threatening as rain sense it now lacks recovery and can be easily revenged killed.

Working atm sry for basic stuff
Yeah, I agree here to an extent - that is, I can definitely see RD TG Mana in S. Its just an incredibly useful set and RD is a really helpful move on Mana. The noticeable power increase under rain helps a lot v stuff like Unaware Clef, and having a good means of healing status at the same time is just great. S imo.

Okay thread's open for business you can make any nominations you want.

To guide the discussion though, I have some discussion points:

Hoopa-U: All sets
Hoopa-C: All sets
Klefki: Dual Screens B+ -> B
Kingdra: Life Orb B -> B+
Victini: Choice Band B+ -> B
Tangrowth: Defensive Unranked -> C
Azelf: Dual Screens B- -> C+
Chesnaught: Belly Drum C- -> D
Just gonna comment on a few of these briefly. Choice Scarf Hoopa U should be A+ imo. Being able to reliably beat some of LO's checks while having ridiculous mixed offensive presence and decent speed for a scarfer warrants A+. Dual Screens Klefki should stay B+. As a screen setter, Klef has everything going for it. The best typing in the game (statistically speaking), ability to use magnet rise to remove one of its two weaknesses, a utility movepool to boot, and on top of all of that, Prankster, which is hugely helpful in accomplishing what it needs to. It also have the ability to set up screens more than once, which most other screeners can't do. CB Victini should stay B+. Even with tankchomp around, this thing hits like a fucking truck, and its checks aren't too hard to overload. Defensive Tangrowth was a set I advocated to be included. It's just a useful tool with a good defensive typing and ability, plus it allows growth to utilize that grass type support movepool. C is fine for it because you lose out on a good amount of mixed defensive presence. BD Chesnaught is a bad set - just lackluster in terms of both speed and power, hard to fit on teams, and pretty damn easy to revenge. Still, I don't think all of that warrants D rank because it can still sweep through the right teams. C- seems fine.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
Agree with including defensive tangrowth and I think C+ is a good place for it, even though I might be exaggerating it a bit. It has some useful niches over Chesnaught including Sleep Powder, Regenerator and a fairy+psychic resist. Sleep Powder catches a lot of pokemon that can switch in against the AV set off guard and also helps you get free turns to get back on full health. Just to give an example of how Tangrowth's physical bulk + movepool works: Tangrowth can switch in against Weavile's Knock Off, take an Icicle Crash, put Weavile to sleep and 2hko Weavile with Giga Drain after the 2 LO recoils. Even if Weavile wakes up after 1 sleep turn, you are back at 60-65% of your health because of Giga Drain + Regenerator.

Btw for those who are wondering what its niches are over Amoonguss: Tangrowth's pure grass typing and better physical bulk lets it take on pokemon such as Lando-T, SD Chomp, Excadrill, Mega Gyarados and Tyranitar way better, as well as annoy sleep switchins with Knock Off or Leech Seed.
 
Well, I will have to disagree with you here. Actually having Guts vs bluffing it is a major advantage for the AV set - status absorption is hugely helpful for a number of teams. Speaking of, AV is also more splashable just in terms of what teams it can be found on, mainly because of the additional longevity AV provides. I could maybe see a drop to C+ on the basis of the significant drop in power, but I think both sets are fine in B-.
The reason you're using Conk is for the power. AV Guts just... Doesn't have that. Yes, you're correct. It's a great Status absorber. But you know what else is a great status absorber? Anything with Hydration. Anything immune to the predicted status. Anything with Magic Guard. Anything with Heal Bell. I could go on.

The point is, AV Guts Conk is very situational and gimmicky. Yes, it has better bulk, but you're not using Conkeldurr for it's bulk. You're using it for it's offensive potential to 2HKO just about the entire meta. LOSF can do that. AVGuts can't. Also, any status absorber I listed above aside from Heal Bellers? They don't get hurt by the status infliction. Yes, they're still slowed by paralysis (Unless immune to it), but Conk isn't lasting long considering it goes last almost every time, and then has to worry about the burn damage and even more prevalent toxic damage. And it's not like Conk doesn't worry about entry hazards, so you're not gonna be switching him in and out every other turn.
 
TheNegativeOne I think you're vastly underrating a well played AV Conks potential against the archetype that is so prevalent in the meta right now being offense. AV Conks purpose isn't to status absorb that's just a bonus it's to switch in on the likes of Gengar and force either heavy damage, remove items with a Knock Off, or a sack against an opposing offensive team, barring some coinflips and specific situtions. Yeah when you look at the standard set of Drain, Ice, Knock, Mach it looks pretty predictable but in the scope of either going more offensive or more specially defensive I wouldn't go as far as to call it a 'gimmick'. If anything the wallbreaker set is a gimmick that only maintained its legitimacy due to some hype and the fact it only functions when running an insane amount of speed for such a slow as hell Pokemon just to work properly. Out of all the wall-breakers in the tier Life Orb Conk is so specific that at times it's just an emergency button for the likes of stuff the AV set when used well already handles such as TTar + Excadrill.

They're both fine in B-, granted I think the Life Orb set is overrated but people have made it work so I'll bite the bullet on that one.
 
TheNegativeOne I think you're vastly underrating a well played AV Conks potential against the archetype that is so prevalent in the meta right now being offense. AV Conks purpose isn't to status absorb that's just a bonus it's to switch in on the likes of Gengar and force either heavy damage, remove items with a Knock Off, or a sack against an opposing offensive team, barring some coinflips and specific situtions. Yeah when you look at the standard set of Drain, Ice, Knock, Mach it looks pretty predictable but in the scope of either going more offensive or more specially defensive I wouldn't go as far as to call it a 'gimmick'. If anything the wallbreaker set is a gimmick that only maintained its legitimacy due to some hype and the fact it only functions when running an insane amount of speed for such a slow as hell Pokemon just to work properly. Out of all the wall-breakers in the tier Life Orb Conk is so specific that at times it's just an emergency button for the likes of stuff the AV set when used well already handles such as TTar + Excadrill.

They're both fine in B-, granted I think the Life Orb set is overrated but people have made it work so I'll bite the bullet on that one.
Fair enough, AM. I just don't see how AV Conk can preform well in this meta. Like I've stated before, it misses out on SO many important 2HKOs or OHKOs that I just can't see AV Conk doing well. Please, show me someone using AV Guts Conk to it's fullest potential, I legitimately want to see it do well, and I've used it before. I know what it can do. I've just never seen it used well in ORAS, while I've seen LOSF Conk used on more than one occasion and I've seen it preform very well. If you could link me some replays of Guts AV Conk doing well, I'd be more than happy to watch them and change my mind.
 

DarkNostalgia

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Honestly though, Kingdra's Life Orb set should be B+. As a wallbreaker and a late-game cleaner, the ability to switch moves and still hit hard, albeit not as hard as Choice Specs, is a major perk. You've got Choice Specs with the standard Hydro Pump, Scald, Ice Beam, Draco Meteor, but sometimes when you're late-game you really need to switch moves, for example when you need to hit like a bulky Water-type as well as a Grass-type, say Rotom-W + Celebi or something along the lines of that, spamming Hydro Pump just won't cut it because you've got the double resistance and the bad accuracy. Another perk Life Orb has is the potential to go mixed, which is easily the biggest advantage over Choice Specs sets. For example, after Kingdra uses Draco Meteor on Mega Venusaur, the subsequent Draco Meteor won't kill due to the Special Attack drop, but using Outrage will. There are plenty more examples of this such as Rotom-W, Clefable, and Chansey where going mixed with Outrage or Waterfall greatly benefits Kingdra.
 

Josh

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Sash breloom should remain B+, but LO should be B/B- and I don't even know why PH should be mentioned.

PH breloom saks. A lot. Brelooms bulk, defensive typing and speed are all pretty bad, it really isn't going to be living very many hits. It definitely won't be living enough that PH will recover enough HP back to be worthwhile. It's honestly terrible lol, try it out and see.

LO loom is ok I guess, but the sash set just offeres so much more. You are guaranteed a lot of momentum if you use it right. A near guaranteed spore, for one. If you chose not to spore bcz ferro/other grass type is out or likely to switch, or you aren't running spore (yes a spore bluff is viable at times lol) then you get a guaranteed rock tomb giving you another near guaranteed attack since you'll outspeed almost everything. LO can be useful, but really breloom has a poor speed and poor defenses like I already said so it won't be living many hits, and yes it does have powerful priority but fighting isn't the worlds best coverage. In general LO is a good set but not as good as sash at all, and should drop imo.
 
Sash breloom should remain B+, but LO should be B/B- and I don't even know why PH should be mentioned.

PH breloom saks. A lot. Brelooms bulk, defensive typing and speed are all pretty bad, it really isn't going to be living very many hits. It definitely won't be living enough that PH will recover enough HP back to be worthwhile. It's honestly terrible lol, try it out and see.

LO loom is ok I guess, but the sash set just offeres so much more. You are guaranteed a lot of momentum if you use it right. A near guaranteed spore, for one. If you chose not to spore bcz ferro/other grass type is out or likely to switch, or you aren't running spore (yes a spore bluff is viable at times lol) then you get a guaranteed rock tomb giving you another near guaranteed attack since you'll outspeed almost everything. LO can be useful, but really breloom has a poor speed and poor defenses like I already said so it won't be living many hits, and yes it does have powerful priority but fighting isn't the worlds best coverage. In general LO is a good set but not as good as sash at all, and should drop imo.
Defensive Poison Heal is lol, but I'm pretty sure when we're talking Poison Heal Breloom, we're talking about this set, or at least something similar.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Facade

It's a wallbreaker, not a defensive mon. The whole point of Toxic Orb is to put in work against defensive stuff, since they can't burn you or wear you out conventionally, plus Facade hits neutrally on most of Breloom's switch ins.

EDIT @ Nos thanks, don't remember the spread on this one so I just made one quickly. Also, I agree that LO > Sash. Breloom likes all the power it can get and Sash is just so weak. You also can't really rely on having Sash up at all times unless you want to lead with it, and I don't really agree with leading with Breloom in most cases.
 
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DarkNostalgia

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Defensive Poison Heal is lol, but I'm pretty sure when we're talking Poison Heal Breloom, we're talking about this set, or at least something similar.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Facade

It's a wallbreaker, not a defensive mon. The whole point of Toxic Orb is to put in work against defensive stuff, since they can't burn you or wear you out conventionally, plus Facade hits neutrally on most of Breloom's switch ins.
Not really a wallbreaker I guess but it beats balanced builds nicely when they've got a lot of stuff like Landorus-T, Mega Sableye, and Slowbro that just fall straight to Toxic Orb Breloom. It runs Jolly more often than not for opposing Bisharp and Breloom, Adamant doesn't really benefit it. I usually go with a spread of 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe just for a Poison Heal number and everything. Should really stay B+ though arguments could be made for it to go to B, indifferent really, because it's kinda weird against offense.

Life Orb is Breloom's best set, not Focus Sash. Focus Sash is a horrible set in my opinion (but that's just my opinion lol), and is definitely NOT its best set. Really hard to justify its use when Life Orb is straight up stronger, for example Mach Punch OHKOes Excadrill and Mega Lopunny while Focus Sash sets don't. Metagame is really hazard-centric and Focus Sash mandates hazard removal which sometimes is really annoying. Sash Breloom should be B- if anything, Life Orb B+ as it is Breloom's best set, and Poison Heal B+ or B.
 
Does SD Weavile count as a different set than orb? I know that it can be used if you don't need Pursuit or Low Kick, and it makes for a great cleaner. If it doesn't I'd like to nominate it to B rank, because it's pretty uncommon but still has its merits
 

bludz

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Life Orb Weavile:

Knock Off / Icicle Crash / Ice Shard / Low Kick or Pursuit or Swords Dance or Poison Jab etc

So yeah it counts as the same set.

Edit: just gonna briefly address DarkNostalgia's points regarding Breloom. Focus Sash is not a bad set and isn't ruined by hazard setters since it is often a lead. Spore + things like Rock Tomb and Mach Punch are a real bitch for a lot of offense to switch into and it prevents things like Bulky Chomp and Lando from just rocking up. Poison Heal variants are nice in their own right but fit onto fewer teams and in general are more matchup dependent I think since against offense they won't do as much and that's why we chose to rank them lower. We still ranked Life Orb as the best set for some of the reasons stated
 
Few things I felt like remarking on:

As far as the argument between Sash Loom and LO Loom goes, I do think LO is the better set by a considerable amount. I think sash has problems in a hazard centric metagame, and even when used as a lead, its slow enough that pretty much every other lead out there will outspeed it. In turn, the opposing team either gets up hazards/breaks loom's sash/forces a switch/ko's loom. I think that alone is enough to warrant a difference in subrank (meaning I think sash should be in B). However, the appreciable power increase when using orb is noticeable, as well, especially at +2.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Garchomp: 378-447 (90 - 106.4%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Garchomp: 291-345 (69.2 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Oh, and poison heal loom is actually pretty damn useful. Immunity to status (read: scald, twave) is pretty huge right now.

A couple other rankings that just seem wrong to me are Defog Mega Scizor and Offensive Tank Mega Slowbro. Defog MegaZor is clearly inferior to sets with SD because you lose out on tons of sweeping potential when you lack SD. Also relegating your mega slot to a support role (and one that is not too hard to find) is just really meh to me. Why not run vanilla Zor or Skarmory? It should be like B+ imo. Tank MegaBro is another one that just makes me want to cringe a bit when I see it. Like you lose regenerator and are slow as balls and prone to hazards and status so you're just clicking slack off all the time, not to mention CM often has room for two attacks so you're giving up the sweeping potential CM has in order to snag a little bit of extra coverage or utility against random shit. Even still, after a boost or two CM has plenty of mixed defensive presence to sweep entire teams no matter what attacks its running and suffers the same problems with status/hazards that the tank set does. If you want coverage or utility on a slowbro, vanilla bro does the job so much better while not taking up your mega slot. So yeah, I'd like to see tank mega bro drop a subrank to B.
 

Martin

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Defog MegaZor is clearly inferior to sets with SD because you lose out on tons of sweeping potential when you lack SD. Also relegating your mega slot to a support role (and one that is not too hard to find) is just really meh to me. Why not run vanilla Zor or Skarmory? It should be like B+ imo.
Last time I checked, Skarmory doesn't get U-Turn, Knock Off, Superpower or priority. Also, base Scizor is just so lacking in comparison as its bulk is iffy without the mega stone and it needs Leftovers to not be a crappy Defogger, meaning its also lacking in the power department. Also, iirc the great thing about Scizor is that you can very easily just change Scizorite to another item if you really need another mega anyway (although Scizorite>all when it comes to Scizor). Seriously, you are underrating Defog MegaZor. Support megas are good. IMO, Defog is placed perfectly where it is ATM, and I personally find myself using it on, like, one in every 5/6 of my teams as it is just so useful to have.
 

bludz

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I'm not against Mega Slowbro's Offensive Tank set dropping - I simply raised all the sets by one subrank when it moved up to A (we discussed it in A- iirc).

Scizor I kinda think just simply on the amount of utility it has is too good to drop out of the A ranks on the Defog set. It's not nearly as threatening as SD but it's still a major bitch to take down and that's not something that can be said of most hazard removers. Skarmory would be its main competition and it's already a sub rank lower based on the Mega slot opportunity cost but does offer a bunch of things that redeem it that gamer boy mentioned.
 
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