ORAS OU Sets Viability Rankings V5

[Martin]

I think AoA Keld falls under a similar boat to Utility Heatran in the respect that we tend to think of both Specs and LO+4 atks Keld as AoA Keld, as in the great scheme of things the difference is about as significant as max speed Tran v.s. SpD Tran: they are technically different, but they function too similarly to really be considered as separate sets. In addition, to have LO just encompassed under RestTalk and CM is misleading because that isn't the inly set which sometimes carries Life Orb. As such, I think lining up with the analysis and renaming Specs to AoA so as to encompass both LO and Specs Keldeo is the correct thing to do here. That way:

• AoA encompass specs, LO+4 atks and Taunt+3 atks
• Scarf encompasses itself
• CM encompass SubCM CM+3 atks (LO and Lefties both encompassed) and Taunt+CM
• RestTalk would account for Helmet, LO and Lefties variants of itself.

This way we account for every worthwhile Keldeo set across the four that we currently have.

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

Few more suggestions since I have time:

Mega Scizor's Defog set: B+ to B
The combination of great mixed bulk, a nice defensive typing (not weak to rocks either), and reliable typing are some good traits for a hazard remover, but it loses a LOT of offensive potential in the process (lol sd defog), and using the mega slot for a defogger is a bit of a waste imo

Thundurus's movesets reorder:
Mixed Attacker: A-
Nasty Plot: A- (up)
Prankster Utility: A- (down)

I can agree that the mixed set is best atm imo, as breaking through Lati@s and Chansey without much issues is always appreciated. Nasty Plot has some big ass power after a boost, so this set also doesn't autolose to fat, specially bulky monsters, but it's harder to get rid of the pink blob and Lati as it requires a boost beforehand, and it can be hard to set them up sometimes due to Thundurus's fraility. Prankster Utility's effectiveness is the lowest of the 3 main sets imo because it can't do much to specials walls besides clicking the best move in the game repeatedly, which is not killing them. Still a cool set, but least effective imo.

Slowking: OTR set proposal to C

Trick Room + Nasty Plot is pretty cool, allowing Slowking to gain a bunch of power after one boost, so it can break through stuff like Chansey easier (unlike OTR Reuniclus, which can lose to Chansey w/o Recover and other things without certain coverage), and the combination of Regenerator + Leftovers can keep Slowking somewhat healthy thorough a match, and it can work as a cool win condition after you get rid of stuff like Ferrothorn. Unlike Reuniclus, however, its offensive choices are limited to 2 moves (Psyshock and Scald) due to TR and NP taking up 2 slots already, and stuff like Ferrothorn wall this set easily, plus setting up NP does eat up a TR turns a bit, so that's annoying

Mega Garchomp's Mixed Wallbreaker set: B- to C+
Breaking through stuff like Lando-T quickly is cool, but SD is more reliable for wallbreaking due to Mega Garchomp's much higher attack, and SD allows M-Garchomp to gain a lot of power fast, so it can actually beat stuff like (Mega) Slowbro 1v1 (after you draco slowbro spams slack off and eats any other hit unless you crit). Besides, SD can use Fire Fang to kill Skarmory + friends anyway, so that's not an issue.

AraEDIT: Mega Slowbro can't get critted

 

[Leo3103]

Could someone be oh so kind as to point me in the right direction or post the actual EV spread/moves for the Clefable sets? I can't find anything that I'd consider unanimous or concrete elsewhere on the interwebs

 

[urban]

Could someone be oh so kind as to point me in the right direction or post the actual EV spread/moves for the Clefable sets? I can't find anything that I'd consider unanimous or concrete elsewhere on the interwebs

Not the correct place for a post like this.
In the future post them here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...the-op-first-now-with-100-more-rules.3542207/

The answers to your questions can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-ev-spread-compendium.3545307/
Or here: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/clefable/

EDIT:
Didn't want to make a new post. But there were a few changes to the main VR thread, so I made those changes here.

VR Update

Tyranitar Choice Scarf A to A+
Tyranitar Choice Band A to A+
Terrakion Choice Band B+ to A-
Klefki Utility B+ to B
Nidoking Special Wallbreaker B to B+
Mandibuzz Utility B- to C+
Tentacruel Rapid spin/Utility C+ to C
Mega Beedrill Revenge Killer C+ to C-

 

[dream light]

hey, first time posting here and i like most of the rankings. that being said,

i noticed that mega diancie's rock polish set was still ranked at a-, presumably being comparable to mgarde, char-y, mega lati, scarf rachi, and mega hera. it is certainly true that mega diancie can sweep weakened offenses after an rp and that offense still rarely has switchins to a diancie especially because rp can often run rash like rp landorus and therefore has higher special attack than normal, gaining a chance at ohkoing offensive starmie without rocks for example. trouble is that the offense teams where it has such a strong matchup literally never give it a chance to mega or rock polish. diancie really wants the coverage of hp fire / epower because you often can't afford to take any damage once you've set up and in a lot of games your best chance at getting an rp is on a latios psyshock / psychic or tornt hurricane, which is still going to merk you unless you haven't mega'd yet. if you have no protect, you can't safely check bisharp which is pretty nice utility for offense teams given their difficulty w/ checking everything offensively. if you drop the coverage and run protect + rp + dual stab, you're not going to be able to break past ferros, skarm, or sciz early game to set up your sweep. latios and torn are commonly running surf and iron tail too so it's not like you're really able to set up on them either.

rp diancie basically provides nothing defensively and honestly never sweeps outside of theorymon vacuums because even if it manages to get setup without being whittled down into like a weav's ice shard range from rocks and psyshock, azu and mega sciz will always have aqua jet and bp to take it out from full and even mega meta has been running much more bp to account for weavile so it's hardly like trends are in its favor. the same stuff that plagues mega diancie in general yeah but made dramatically worse because tect diancie usually has the ability to guaranteed outspeed non-scarf keldeo and below which is part of why it's so threatening, especially against the crowded base 100 tier. rp diancie is really not comparable to mgarde or mega lati both of which present a much greater threat in terms of coverage against their respective archetypes while rp diancie beats...what offense, exactly? you're basically 5v6 in those matchups without protect so you can't even force sacks as much as you'd like to. if it's okay to have a disparity of a+ to b+, drop to b+.

edit: forgot to mention loom but it's another threat that forces out diancie pre evo which is more of a concern for rp than tect and easily takes it out from halfish if it's running orb.

 

[Kutscher]

Can someone explain me heatran sets? I stop praying ou for a while, and now everyvody is talking about max hp, max speed and how great it is beating stall. In The smogon pokedex There is a set called "special def" witch have some speed and some hp, is This set people are talking about???? Also i Guess that offensive talks about both stalbreaker(magma storm) and offensive sr, but isn't The stallbreaker better than The offensive sr?

 

[Martin]

Can someone explain me heatran sets? I stop praying ou for a while, and now everyvody is talking about max hp, max speed and how great it is beating stall. In The smogon pokedex There is a set called "special def" witch have some speed and some hp, is This set people are talking about???? Also i Guess that offensive talks about both stalbreaker(magma storm) and offensive sr, but isn't The stallbreaker better than The offensive sr?

On the sets VR, max HP/Spe is encompassed under utility alongside SpD. SpD isn't the set they are talking about, but it just haopens to function kinda similarly to the point where it is listed under the same name as SpD. The analysis is kinda outdated and could do with an SCMS edit to account for max HP/Spe's popularity, although that's a topic for the analysis discussion thread rather than here.

 

[urban]

Apologies for letting this project fall by the wayside for the past few weeks. I had some IRL stuff then WCOP happened, but I will have more time to spend on this now. Anyway, this is sort of a clean up post considering there was a VR thread update and the meta has shifted quite a bit with all of the ORAS matches of WCOP. First, an update to go along with the VR thread:

VR Thread Update

VR Update Changes
Heatran
Utility: A -> A+
Offensive: A -> A
Choice Scarf: B+

Mega Slowbro
Calm Mind: A- -> B+

Mega Venusaur
Defensive: A- -> B+
Offensive: A- -> B+

Mega Aerodactyl
Revenge Killer: B+ -> B

Hippowdon
Mixed Wall: B -> B+

Raikou
Choice Specs: B -> B-
Calm Mind: B -> B-
Assault Vest: Remove

Dragalge
Offensive Toxic Spikes: B- -> C+ (Remane Offensive)
Specially Defensive: B- -> C
Choice Specs: Remove

Garchomp (Mega)
Swords Dance: B- -> C+
Mixed Attacker: B- -> C

Hawlucha
Sub SD: C+ -> C

Dugtrio
Trapper: D -> C-

Kyurem
Choice Specs: Unranked -> C-
Sub Roost: D

I also brought up several other possible changes with the ranking team. The bolded ones are up for discussion while the others are things that I am going to go ahead and implement. I will try to post some more specific discussion topics later tonight or tomorrow once I get the OP fully updated.

Clefable / Support / A+ -> S
Landorus-T / Offensive SR / A+ -> A
Latios / Calm Mind / A+ -> A
Tornadus-T / AV / A+ -> A
Slowbro / Defensive Support > Calm Mind
Jirachi / Expert Belt / Remove
Serperior / Special Sweeper > Substitute
Mew / Lure / Remove
Alakazam / Focus Sash / B- -> C+
Breloom / Focus Sash / B- -> C+
Reuniclus / Offensive Trick Room / Remove
Slowking / AV / Remove
Celebi / Offensive / Remove
Diggersby / Choice Scarf / Remove
Hydreigon / Choice Scarf / C+ -> C-
Infernape / Defensive / Remove

 

[Martin]

Can we get Scarf Celebi ranked? This thing is legitimately useful and I don't quite understand why it wasn't ranked when the regular offensive set dropped considering that I'd put it quite a bit above that set in terms of overall usefulness considering that it consistently puts in work in matches while also being nice as an offensive Grass-type that doesn't lose to MLop and being really nice for role compression between Keld switch-in, Starmie check on offense, fast Healing Wish user and status absorber due to Natural Cure+U-turn in conjunction. If I'm missing something here please say, but I just want to know the reasoning behind it not being ranked.

 

[Mr.Goxel]

Klefki in b rank yet it's utility set is b+? Just an error I found

AraEDIT: Fixed

 

[bludz]

Can we get Scarf Celebi ranked? This thing is legitimately useful and I don't quite understand why it wasn't ranked when the regular offensive set dropped considering that I'd put it quite a bit above that set in terms of overall usefulness considering that it consistently puts in work in matches while also being nice as an offensive Grass-type that doesn't lose to MLop and being really nice for role compression between Keld switch-in, Starmie check on offense, fast Healing Wish user and status absorber due to Natural Cure+U-turn in conjunction. If I'm missing something here please say, but I just want to know the reasoning behind it not being ranked.

It's pretty much a gimmick which compresses some roles and is used to patch up certain weaknesses as a result of poor team building. It has poor coverage and STAB for a revenge killer and is still pursuit prone as hell especially after a KO (unlike Jirachi which flinches Weavile / Ttar). It is also a complete momentum drain if you predict wrong, moreso than other Scarfers based on Leaf Storm drops. I've used it on a few builds and it's fun / can catch people off guard but is generally just bad. Most of the things you mentioned it doing are 1 time only cuz it doesn't appreciate Analytic Starmie Ice Beam at all. Checking Starmie is easier than switching into it so yeah

 

[Icing On Da Cake]

Could you separate Suicune's sets into RoarCune (1st) and CroCune (2nd, possibly move to b, but im 60/40 on it)? They share many traits (CM, fat), but they have some notable differences which deserve to be represented separately imo.

RoarCune- brutal with hazards (mainly spikes), preventing other set up sweepers (things like Manaphy and Clefable mostly) from setting up in your face (preventing set up wars), and preventing slower phasers from stopping a sweep early (skarm and hippo)

CroCune- less passive during sleep turns, more annoyed by things like cm slowking and reuniclus, as psyshock breaks through it at +6, and phasers are more annoying

 

[Vert]

i'd have choice scarf latios as an a- rank set. it has a very nice speed tier outpacing scarf landorus-t, +1 zardx, mega lopunny, surprising weavile, a better check to serperior, and being able to trick away its scarf to something it cannot break. rising popularity in tour scene and even ladder

the "defensive" set for slowbro should be one subrank below calm mind. calm mind is a beast move. mindlessly clicking thunder wave does absolutely nothing for you except make you lose momentum versus set up where you are an immediate threat and the mometum of using slowbro shifts to ur favor. if you are running slowbro as your solo zardx answer so u need twave, that's bad teambuilding.

defensive gastrodon shouldn't even exist. i'd make it c rank. curse is way too good to pass up in this metagame where pretty much every team without a grass will find some way to be annoyed the shit out of by this set.

i'd still have talonflame's wisp sets as an a rank set. it doesn't have to be labeled as specially defensive to be honest. any set with will-o-wisp despite the spread is still a don and i think it should be labeled "utility set up" or something idk. i rate all tflames with wisp fine af. i say wisp sets and offensive sd sets have their role on different teams and they are both good as hell and deserve solid a rank. band is the only tflame set that doesnt deserve a rank.

i fail to see any niche poison heal breloom has outside of beating stall (even then unaware clef). it is deadweight in pretty much every other matchup and you're using an inferior set when loom's normal sets are already "i'm either putting a shit ton of work in this game or doing nothing". maybe c- rank for that set.

 

[bludz]

Regarding potential changes -

I think SubSeed Serp is better than the other variants. The ability to play around switches much more easily is frightening and Serp behind a sub is super deadly.

Agree with vertex on Slowbro. CM is better, although I don't mind if they share the same rank.

C+ is really underselling Sash Breloom. It isn't as good as LO generally but can be super annoying to play around. It's also a lot less susceptible to Weavile's Ice Shard and being worn into range of stuff. Definitely a step above everything in C+

Don't remove Infernapes defensive set. That's pretty much it's main niche anyway, offensive is bad if anything drop that to C.

I know this move was already made but I don't see why Scarf Hydreigon dropped so low. I think it's easily better than sets featured by Hawlucha and Tentacruel which are in C. It's not really Hydreigons main niche and I wouldn't even call it good but is it really that awful? I think C would have been fine.

I think defensive Togekiss can drop. It doesn't have the same level of effectiveness as Alomomola imo.

Also there's been a ranking update and Tentacruels set should be C rank.

I think we should consider SpD Jirachi for A- at this point too, and quite possibly above Scarf

 

[Kutscher]

i would like to nom CB ttar > Scarf ttar, cb is so good right now, just a few mons can actually switch against it(you can beat skarm, quagsire and slowbro three of the best physicall walls in the tier) , and you can actually threaten bulky things with pursuit like slowbro and chansey, making it an aweseome mon against stall, also things like torn-t, mega latias, reuniclus, and slowking are only pursuit trapped by the band set. being able to KO whana be chceks like Ferrothorn and clefable is nice too.

 

[urban]

Some things that have been talked about since my last post:

• Probably won't separate Suicune's CM and Roar sets. They were separated at one point, but Suicune's role as a bulky tank that burns shit is pretty cut and dry regardless of the final moveslot choice. On top of that, Roar isn't used enough to justify an entirely separate moveset in my opinion.
• I will keep CM Slowbro above Defensive, but I do think the two sets should remain in the same rank. Yes, Calm Mind does well against bulkier squads and makes Slowbro much more threatening in the long run, but Thunder Wave Slowbro does better against more offensive teams who don't really care if Slowbro sets up in the first place. Also, paralysis spreading is always a useful tool for harding hitting balance squads that make use of powerful breakers like Medi or Garde.
• Talonflame's sets definitely need a revamp. I will talk to the ranking team about it.
• I don't think Substitute eases prediction for Serperior at all. If your opponent is going to switch, why would you not just fire off a Leaf Storm and boost to +2? Even if you do get up a sub, Serperior is miserably weak without any SpA boost or boosting item, so you're not really picking up extra KOs from behind your sub unless you sub on a predicted sack or something along those lines. Also, taking away one of Serperior coverage moves when it already has terrible coverage just makes it less effective imo. As such, I think the LO set is more threatening to most teams.
• Agree on Togekiss.
• Scarf Tyranitar won't drop below Band just because Scarf is hands down one of the most splashable and consistent mons in the tier. I agree that Band is great right now, but it requires significantly more than Scarf.
• Just assume I am neutral on anything I didn't mention.

Also, there was a VR update, so the following changes were made:

VR updates

Thundy
Mixed Attacker: A- to A
Prankster Utility: A- to A
Nasty Plot: stays A-

Starmie
Offensive Spinner: B+ to A-
Defensive Spinner: B to B+

Gyarados (Mega)
Dragon Dance: A- to B+

Altaria (Mega)
Offensive Dragon Dance: B+ to B
Defensive Dragon Dance: B+ to B
Bulky Support/Tank: B to B- (Combined Support+Tank sets)

I tried to come up with a topic, but the rankings look fairly accurate right now, especially in the A ranks, so I wasn't able to think of one that would actually generate good discussion. For now, let's try to focus on B ranks and below, but everyone is free to bring up and/or discuss anything.

 

[HailFall]

I feel magnezone deserves to have its specs and scarf sets in the same rank. Scarf may be able to trap scizor but specs has a ton of sheer wallbreaking power that makes it truly tricky to switch into. Scarf is quite passive in comparison.

Imo mega chomp's mixed attacker set should go D or unranked. Life orb does this with similar damage output, is faster, and doesn't take a mega slot. Very little reason to use this ever.

On mega pidgeot, the special wallbreaker set should also go unranked. It's literally life orb torn but worse in every way (excluding no guard and lack of lo recoil). The stallbreaker set is mpidges only actual niche imo.

Av conk should probably go D or unranked as well. There's very little reason to use this set because it doesn't even do its job (being hard to switch into) very well without lo sheer force. If I'm using conk im using it for its power, not its bulk. Other fighting types like resttalk keld are better for sponging burns and taking on darks or whatever.

 

[AM]

Couple of things, well maybe not a couple but w/e. I'm just gonna put the assumed list that I think it should be and bold the change.

Landorus-T
Defensive Stealth Rock: A+
Choice Scarf: A
Offensive Stealth Rock
Double Dance: A

Scarf above Offensive SR. More splashable has started to gain a spike in usage on a lot of teams.

Tyranitar
Choice Scarf: A+
Choice Band: A+
Support: A

I think this set is a bit undervalued here. I know it's in A- cause of the superiority of the other sets, which I'm fine with but support is normally paired with Excadrill and turns what is a mediocre mon by itself into something very centralizing. The support set can also take a lot of forms like going speedy support to get the jump on defensive lando-ts with Ice Beam and SpAtk investment, or Thunder Wave. I agree with urban that Scarf should not be below Band.

Talonflame
Specially Defensive: A
Offensive Swords Dance: A

SpDef is much more customizable than the Offensive variant while still sporting some defensive utility teams such as Mega Diancie balances can appreciate. You can run it with some speed, you can run it with SD / Sharp Beak or Lefties depending on what you want it to do. I think the offensive set while good can be a bit linear and sometimes largely difficult to support since its implementation is on really high octane teams that necessitate other offensive mons to be healthy to remove rocks out, like Offensive Starmie and Latios. Wisp on TFlame is also just great and I feel the change would reflect that.

You saw my opinion on Thundurus earlier, I do think the order though for clarity should be this.

Thundurus
Mixed Attacker: A
Nasty Plot: A
Prankster Utility: A-

Jirachi
Specially Defensive: A-
Choice Scarf: A-
SubToxic: B

Infernal made a good post on Jirachi's merits in VR thread and I mostly agree with it since people are coming back to using the SpDef variants for pivoting relief against the likes of Diancie and Latios to name a few. Feel like Scarf is more of a band aid to teams these days although it's definitely still good on offense.

The ease of prediction on Serperior is more in line with throwing out a Leech Seed not a Substitute. With that said I don't personally care about the order of this one too much just thought I would point that out cause ease of prediction was representing the wrong move here.

Magnezone
Choice Specs: B+
Choice Scarf: B
Utility Trapper: B-

I honestly think Scarf Magnezone is suuuuuuuper bad, this is probably one that I could be more adamant about. Scarf creates a lot of set up opportunities for your opp since the punishment for your opp switching into the wrong move (like Chomp into Flash Cannon when trying to soak Volt Switch) isn't as bad as if that were a Specs set behind it. A lot of the stuff Magnezone would be trapping is slower mons anyways and the Scarf sets utility in sort of having the jump on stuff like Thundurus I think is a bit exaggerated. I always felt like if you need Scarf Magnezone on your team chances are you have big holes that need to be fixed in a more efficient manner anyways. I think the Scarf variant has been awful for several months now while Specs is the main reason people would be using Magnezone anyways.

Raikou
Calm Mind: B-
Choice Specs: B-

I think it's time for this to move up or at least named Sub CM which is why it's good and not the 3 attacks / CM set. Going bulkier to set up on Clef and friends is also pretty sweet.

Couldn't care less for anything below the Bs at this point since they're dung anyways.

 

[Kutscher]

i'm nominating choice band kyube > LO mixed Kyube, the biggest reason to my nom is that while you may miss the ability to switch moves and roost, CB kyube lack counters(bar doublade and shedinja), almost everything it's 2koed by outrage, and the things that can resist it are 2koed/koed by fusion bolt/iron head, this makes CB kyube able to do something that mixed lo can only dream of: beat stall. CB kyube is as good against offense too, cause just a few things in offense can switch in a CB dragon claw(lando-t is 2koed by outrage, if he tries to switch out, kyube will be confuse and you can switch it out).
also i think we can rank sets as AoA and Pursuit trapper, since they are very different sets.

 

[bludz]

Shedinja doesn't counter any variant of Kyu-B due to Teravolt.

While CB Kyu-B may fare better against stall and have fewer "counters" one thing to consider is OHKOs vs 2HKOs. For example Lando-T is not OHKO'D, which means that it can retaliate or set up rocks or something. Whereas LO variants threaten to OHKO and this applies more immediate pressure to anyone with a Landorus-T. Granted Lando will usually switch out but if Band has been revealed, then this scenario comes into play. Also some of the switchins like Ferro and Mega Zor remain the same anyway

The other thing is Band doesn't take advantage of Kyu-B's best STAB which is Ice Beam. Outrage and the like can leave you more open and easy to take advantage of.

CB is a cool holepuncher but the worse coverage, inability to switch moves or recover (on a mon so weak to hazards), makes it an inferior pick to LO imo.

Also I think BD Azu should go above CB at this point. I think we've all seen enough Tangrowth and Amoonguss to see why CB has declined in viability. While BD will not always succeed in sweeping it can often force your opponent to let certain mons get weakened and this is a powerful tool you can use.

 

[Martin]

I think that Pursuit Bisharp should probably be dropped to B or B- (if it were me I'd unrank it entirely but there are probably people who would winge if it was+it is still technically usable and isn't the most dong thing ever like AV/Scarf are) because realistically speaking you aren't going to be using Bisharp for Pursuit nowadays on the basis that swords dance is kinda necessary in the current meta to not make Bisharp mediocre-at-best and is the whole reason why it is still good. You aren't using Bisharp to trap Lati@s anymore because it's just not very good at it even with Defiant, and putting a much bigger gap between the sets than a single subrank provides a better representation of the current metagame imo.

Also fwiw I agree with everything AM said.

Edit: I could kinda see a case for CB Dugtrio being added to D 'cause it's p. ok and isn't disgustingly weak versus neutral targets before hitting 1 HP, although I'd kinda understand if it's considered too similar to the bog-standard Trapper set to be worth ranking.

 

[Kutscher]

i think someone already brought this up, but can we separate mega latias sets in CM(A-) and Utility support(boltbeam +t-wave/Reflect type/defog)(B+)? the sets are to dieferent to be together in one thing called speedy tank

 

[Kutscher]

is sp.def skarm better than P.Def skarm? i can be wrong, but i think that the sp.def main goal is counter fairys, but nowdays every clef runs t-wave that cripple it, most diance are max atk, wich 2ko it after rocks, and gardevoir is dropping in viability/usage, i think that at the moment the p.def set is the superior.

 

[MANNAT]

A and B Rank Cleanup

• Move Offensive Stealth Rock to the bottom of Landorus-Therian's sets. Choice Scarf is easily the second best set and is approaching defensive Stealth Rock in viability, maybe move it below defensive sr in A+.
• Move BD above CB on Azu since fast BD Azu is probably the best set right now.
• Bump Scarf Drill up to A- because it has legitimate utility on offenses that can't afford to run sand and can run through teams that rely on scarf landot+rotom to stop ground types.
• Move tankchomp down to A- or B+, no one uses it and landot is much better most of the time.
• Move defensive Slowbro to A-, the lack of CM as a wincon kinda sucks.
• Defensive SD should be added into Talon sets somewhere
• Move Pursuit Bish to B or B-, it's trash and Bisharp without SD is frankly dong
• Add in bulky wallbreaker over current MHera set
• Rename SpDef to rocks and move it above Scarf
• MLatias should be split into CM and utility with CM above utility
• Specs Zone should move up to B+ if not placed above scarf, not beingi able to kill Ferro is ass
• Tank Megabro should be put in around B- bc it can work p well on certain BO teams.
• Move Offensive above defensive on mvenu, defensive is hot garbage lol
• Put Special attacker MAlt as the highest set and move the dd sets down a subrank
• AV Slowking should be in there somewhere
• Unrank Defog Regular Scizor lol

 

[HailFall]

sr clef is not an S rank set. its not really a bad rocks setter but its not on the same level as mg cm + twave as it either loses out on the ability to actually sweep if it forgoes cm, or the ability to cripple/kill its switchins if it forgoes twave/fire blast. i dont really see any good reason for it to be in s its a decent utility mon but thats it. i think it should definitely be in A+.

also unaware clef is not an A rank set either. its barely even viable and it certainly doesnt deserve a place above quagsire or chansey when so much of its utility is lost by dropping magic guard and its only an okay fit for very select stall builds. I think its best suited to B-/C+ rank (or just unranked if you dont want a set that low for an s rank mon).

life orb clef is another terrible set that really doesnt deserve to be ranked. the massive loss in bulk and opportunity to switch in combined with low speed makes it borderline unusable. its basically a meme and is exceedingly hard to justify on any serious team.