I questioned whether I really wanted to sit through and post my thoughts on this but considering that PS has been on a spiral of disconnects I guess now I can sit down and talk on some stuff I've seen.
Espeon is shit, don't rank it, ez pz.
gary and others summed up gengar pretty well but like in all honesty I don't know how it's being entertained that you're gonna put Gengar on the same level as a bunch of stuff in A- that have either much more viable switch ins and or counterplay. Faster mons having knock off isn't really a burden unless you somehow made a play to put yourself in that position of getting the jump on Gengar. You have to get in first, and switching into Gengar is mandated to like AV Torn-T and super passive stuff that either get Taunted or get screwed over by Wisp / Substitute variants.
Already said my piece on M-Slowbro earlier but more or less dropping it is just exaggerating its
supposed lack of effectiveness. I don't know there isn't a whole lot to say when got guys saying 4mss as their strongest argument for a drop. Also didn't know massive opportunity cost equates to some dudes getting 6-0'd by this thing, sweet.
Another stallbreaker, Togekiss. Don't get me wrong Togekiss is a solid Pokemon but considering it was more on the verge of being B before this serge of goth stall came to take place I think it's fine in B+. A lot of the A- stuff either have more offensive utility with things like Gyarados and M-Cham being there, stuff that is a bit more difficult to handle in practice and building, or just have a role that's more dangerous such as volcaronas ability to set up a Quiver Dance and blast off shots finishing off a bunch of teams.
Speaking of Volcarona bulky Talonflame being a thing is not a reason for it to drop lol for whoever has been saying that. That's been around for awhile, and for awhile now this is something that sets up and will invalidate game plans after a turn of set up. Taking a gamble as to which coverage move it has sucks because it's not something you want to be trying to pivot into left and right, well you really can't but I digress. Hasn't gotten worse no point in dropping this in B+ what so ever.
I'm kind of neutral on Celebi cause it does work pretty sweet on a lot of teams but more or less I don't think it's better than a bunch of A-. I only can justify using it on more offensive variants like Scarf with Healing Wish but other than that I'll keep my opinion on it to myself.
The only legitimate thing, and I mean legitimate not that Skill Swap bullshit, is Wisp / 3 attacks that differentiates it from all the other fighting types it's "outclassed" by. I don't like Gallade thaaat much but it's w/e people will just use M-Cham for power anyways, cause let's be real here.
I spoke about it last time it was a discussion point but gallade should remain B+. Yes we all know it lost its hype but it is still a sitting in the 110 speed tier and 165 base attack with a +2 is still scary for balance to switch into. It does have to thrive on balance/bulky offense because HO won't let it set up, and stall will 99% carry sableye, who shuts this thing down hard, but with balance rising in popularity, that's a point in gallades favor. The added bulk does go a little unnoticed when it does actually help it live some strong neutral attacks, like LO Thunderus's thunderbolt, Latios Draco/psyshock and Lopunnys return. It may not take them well, but those are just examples of the bulk coming into play. I posted about this nom earlier and I don't wanna be the guy to just relink his old post, but if needed I can. Gallade does have its problems such as being revenge killed fairly easily if it is attacked while setting up, and being a fighting type makes it so talonflame will always force it out, but it has dropped enough and B+ is where it belongs.
Getting it to +2 in this day and age unless you're facing a slow balance squad or dedicated your entire team to it sweeping with like Memento support as one example is practically impossible. That's why M-Cham has more appeal because it doesn't necessitate a turn of set up, it just goes ahead and fires off shots immediately. Idk why people emphasize bulk and then say "it might not take it well". That's just so contradictory and is even more complicated when hazards / prior damage are behind most of these hits.
My analysis on MSwamp:
If that doesn't convince you idk what does because everyone else just posts speculative shit all the time without backing it up with cold calcs, I can post some vids of high elo carnage this monster delivers as well if you want but I don't wanna put more effort into this than I already am.
Ok these calcs are cute and all in the post you put showing it hits everything but let's be real here. On top of all of flegg's points you need to most times stomach a huge hit for Swampert to mega evolve in the first place. Like idk about you but I don't like my rain teams to stack the same weaknesses to fat grasses when I can use another mega to improve rains matchup against stuff like Ferro and Thundurus. M-Swampert I think was cool and all start of ORAS but the way you play against rain and play on switches to pressure stuff like M-Swampert doesn't really convince me. I've seen Kingdra put in a toooon more work than M-Swamperts, and that is a huge reason why M-Swampert is so lacking. The fact you're just using a mega for something that's practically less effective from a general standpoint than one of the best swift swimmers in the tier is embarrassing. The only case you could make is to raise Kingdra if it's not on par with the B rank stuff, M-Swampert that is. Tbf though a lot of the B stuff have less opportunity cost in my eyes than M-Swamp does. Idk about it dropping but rising it makes 0 sense to me.
bludz touched upon Mamoswine but like he said don't drop it rofl. Things disgusting in B+ and falls under that group of Pokemon that people don't realize how devastating they can be in practice due to their relatively low usage (Terrakion, Suicune, Diggersby some of those). Life Orb is the variant that can put huge dents into your standard balance builds, takes a dump on chomp which is one of the best rockers / mons in the tier right now, an electric check that isn't just another electric lol or something Latias who doesn't even have the offensive potential to pose a threat to most electrics anyways unless prior damage. Mamoswines switch ins are pretty prediction reliant and or situational in the form of less viable mons like Bronzong. B+ is perfectly fine in a meta where Thundurus is found on a bunch of offense, Chomp being rampant, like almost every single decent rocker being a ground type weak to Ice or something like Heatran being exploitable to ground as examples.
I mean Idk about Latias I think it's so extremely overrated like the context of it being an electric check is rather dumb when every single build packing an electric type is gonna be offensive, meaning they got something utilizing Dark in the back such as Bish / Weavile. Healing Wish has enough of a merit to keep it in its position because it makes some end games stupidly easily. Like for example the Pidgeot build I have that goes with SD Bisharp / Work Up Pidgeot with spikes support doesn't function without Latias being there since her Healing Wish provides these set up sweepers longevity against stall. Then again it depends on how you look at it. I don't think Latias is as good as Starmie if not worse in practice.
Kind of long so not gonna bother with other stuff that I sure as hell know shouldn't happen that was mentioned like Char-Y dropping, or stuff I don't care about like M-Chomp rising nom for the 20th or so time.
Edit: I lied about M-Chomp a little bit. I think it's better than M-Swampert. Yes you read a line of me supporting M-Chomp in some way. Congrats.
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