Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[Prinz]

Tbh I think that when we consider the Arceus formes we should say whenever we consider them as mons per se, or if we consider them comparing them with the other Arceus formes. If we consider them as mons per se, then I also think they have some good niches and therefore C rank fits with them, but in the second case, they other Arceus formes are just better than them and they are barely viable, so something like C- or D rank is more appropriate imo. Don't think C or D rank is much of a difference though, and they aren't really relevant anyways.

Arceus Ice is better than any of these Arceus formes though, I guess. Yes, it isn't meant to be a good defensive mon, but Ice type has very few resistors in the tier atm (PDon crippled any bulky water not called POgre), and therefore Ice-type mons have becoming better in ORAS ubers (like Kyu-W, for example)

About Mega Lucario otherwise, I think that's the same about the Arceus formes. If we think about it as a mon per se, it isn't THAT bad (even if it's viable just on Sticky Web teams and hey they got worse in ORAS thanks to Lati Twins), but if we compare it with the other megas, Mence, Diancie, Mewtwos, Blaziken and even Mawile are just overall more consistent than it.

Finally, about the other 3 mons, I don't rly know about them (have anyone ever seen them in action lol?), but well even if I think they aren't much better than Arceus Bug could be, something like C or C- should work for them.

Also ditto in b-? Guess it's better than both regular Diancie and Giratina-A, so maybe you can put it in B rank (havin a so great matchup is great, and it helps against the most part of setup sweepers, even if it has hard times against more defensive oriented teams).

 

[Malley]

Also ditto in b-? Guess it's better than both regular Diancie and Giratina-A, so maybe you can put it in B rank (havin a so great matchup is great, and it helps against the most part of setup sweepers, even if it has hard times against more defensive oriented teams).

Seconding Ditto for B- or B. So much of the tier at the moment is about set-up, and it basically neuters all relevant 'mons apart from CM sweepers and Blaziken. Especially on HO, it's insanely good. Hardly any scarfers around (relatively to the lower tiers), so it's still a solid revenge killer as well.

 

[QueenOfHax]

Potential shifts to D-Rank: Arceus-Dragon, -Fighting, -Fire, -Flying, -Steel, -Ice, Mega Lucario, Reshiram, Deoxys-Defense, Giratina-Altered

Potential removals: Terrakion, Victini
​

My thoughts...

Arceus-Dragon: agree. It's a jack-of-all-trades and master of none dragon type, much like Haxorus in OU. Latias and Giratina-O are better for support/defense and Rayquaza, Zekrom, Kyurem-W, Salamence etc. are better for wallbreaking/sweeping.

Arceus-Fighting: agree. Fighting is meh offensively in a tier full of fairy, flying, psychic and ghost types, lack of Knock Off and good physical fighting STAB means it can't run physical sets, defensively it's Xerneas/Yveltal/Mega Mence/Mewtwo bait and so on.

Arceus-Fire: disagree. It's actually a better check to GeoXerneas than PDon because it has much better special bulk and recovery. Yeah I know it's a small niche but considering how dangerous GeoXerneas is it's worth something. Perhaps C- rank instead of D?

Arceus-Flying: disagree. Flying Judgment+Earth Power has great coverage so it can run a CM set like Arceus-Ice, however it sacrifices offensive potential for a slightly better defensive type and immunity to Spikes/TS/Web. I'd say keep it in C.

Arceus-Steel: disagree. It might be the most passive Arceus forme and complete PDon bait, but mono-steel is still a decent type, it's a solid defogger and can check a plethora of threats including Xerneas (though it's weak to Focus Blast so it's not as good as other things) and MegaMence. Mega Gengar not being as common as it used to be also works in its favor.

Arceus-Ice: we just moved this to C rank so I disagree. It greatly benefits from P-Groudon's presence in the metagame since it can check/counter fire, steel and water pokemon, the types that resist ice. Perhaps the best offensive CM Arceus forme and, shockingly enough, it has been pointed out in its analysis that it can work as a check to Mega Mence and Rayquaza if it runs a bulky set.

Mega Lucario: disagree. High opportunity cost but trollish speed tier, one of the few fighting types that can beat Xerneas and even PDon won't like taking Adaptability-boosted Close Combats.

Reshiram: agree. It has quite possibly the highest opportunity cost in ubers. It needs sun to function so it has to be paired with regular Groudon rather than PDon (it's too slow to set Sunny Day itself) and even then P-Ogre craps all over it. It also faces competition from Kyu-W, who has better stats and STABs.

Deoxys-D: disagree. Deo-S is more consistent as a lead, but Deo-D can try to set hazards later in the match if it gets anti-led, something Deo-S really can't do. With Skill Swap+Recover it can get past Mega Sableye and Mega Diancie, an other important niche over Deo-S.

Giratina-A: disagree. Has a niche over Lugia in being able to handle Mega Mence and non-Outrage Rayquaza better (many Ray sets now forfeit Outrage since Dragon Ascent has better neutral coverage) since it doesn't have to worry about SR as much. Giratina-O is a better defogger, but Giratina-A runs RestTalk+WoW+phaze better. Still complete GeoXerneas and PDon bait though. I'd say C- is appropriate.

Terrakion: disagree. Can revenge-kill E-killer, Scarf Kyu-W, Darkrai, Ho-oh and a plethora of other threats. Not sure about its rank but it shouldn't be taken off.

Victini: disagree. One of the few fire types that can actually scare POgre out and even PDon won't appreciate a 120 BP Grass Knot (choiced sets are bad, use Mixtini). It also has U-Turn which is nice. Keep it on the list.

 

[orch]

tl;dr bolded my thoughts

Tyranitar -> B to B+ ok
Clefable -> B- to B ok
Arceus-Water -> C+ to B A-
Arceus-Ice -> D to C C+
Kyurem-White -> B- to B+ B-
Arceus-Rock -> B+ to A- B+
Tentacruel -> C to C+ ok
Arceus-Ground -> A to A- ok
Thundurus -> B+ to B Unranked
Wobbuffet -> B+ to B B+
Whimsicott -> B to B- C+
Arceus-Fire -> C+ to C ok
Arceus-Flying -> C+ to C C+
Arceus-Psychic -> C+ to C ok
Arceus-Steel -> C+ to C C+
Shuckle -> C+ to C Unranked
Smeargle -> C+ to C C+
Arceus-Electric -> B to B- C-
Arceus-Poison -> B to B- C-
Mega Mewtwo X -> A- to B+ C+
Mega Lucario -> C+ to C ok
Mawile-Mega -> C+ to C ok
Terrakion -> C+ to C Unranked
Victini -> B- to C Unranked

some of my thoughts

Giratina-A should remain in C+. It is one of most reliable Primal Groudon counter. Primal Groudon 3hkos at BEST with aids blades/dragon claw, and Giratina just dragon tails it away. Giratina-A should be used in a hazard heavy team, however some will point out that Gira-o is usually better in this type of teams anyways. The distinction between Gira-o/Gira-a phazing sets is the fact that Giratina-A's pressure combined with Rest stall is usually more than enough to stallbreak opposing stall team by pp stalling. This is a niche that is suitable for C+ IMO.

Arceus-Electric should be placed in C- and Arceus-Ice promoted to C+. Arceus-Ice is SO MUCH better than Arceus-Electric. They both have virtually the same niche, however Ice STAB hits Primal Groudon much harder than lol ice beam from eleceus. I believe that the statistics from SPL supports this sentiment- Iceceus was used once and won a game and Eleceus was used in two games and lost both. The game between Problems and Steeljackal was excellent for showing the reason that Eleceus is among the worst Arceus for this metagame.

WHy the hate on Reshiram? Nothing really switches into it. It should remain as C+. It does not require Sun support. It still does hella damage without sun. Also, it's one of rare dragon that is not spooked by Xerneas due to the Fire typing. Your best bet with this pokemon is to just click Draco Meteor or Blue Flare with Life Orb equipped and 2hko/ohko practically any switch in except really bulky stuff. It can aid the team with Tailwind and it's less sr weak than it should be due to Roost.

Bump Smeargle up to C+. It's still an invaluable for Evasionpass teams, Smashpass teams, and a really niche spin lead set. Just because these strategies are unpopular among some people does not mean that it's any less viable.

Bump Wobbuffet back up to B+. Wobb HO is still good, and there have been no metagame shift to suggest otherwise.

Take off Vicinti, Terrakion, Shuckle, and Thundurus from the list please. I realize that they can -do- something in ubers, but these pokemon are seriously outclassed and/or have far too many flaws to be worthwhile to be used in Ubers.

Feel free to ask me to expand on my thoughts/points later.

 

[Mr.378]

The list seems mostly in line with what it should be. I just have a few last suggestions:

Hide

• 
  
  Mewtwo (Base and Mega Y):These two seem more in line with A-Rank. They're both good attackers but I'd say not as good as the rest of A+. Base Mewtwo has some survivability issues because of it's relatively weak defenses and now that LO is it's only real usable set.It also isn't that effective in the current meta because it has a few new mons that can tank it's attacks better. It also has some 4mss because it always wants optimal coverage which requires four attacks but also really wants taunt to shut down walls. MMY kind of fixes these issues but adds more physical frailty while burning the coveted mega slot. While these two are effective and may still be worth A+ they seem like better fits in the A-Rank.

• 
  (Mega) Blaziken: Yeah send this to B+. It just isn't that good now that new megas do it's old job better and new threats make it easier to check.

• 
  Regular Kyogre: I think this has been said before but regular Kyogre is honestly about as good as regular Groudon. It doesn't check things like regular Groudon does but at the same time it's choice sets are still okay at hitting things hard and being able to clean. It also doesn't come with the heavy opportunity cost regular Groudon does, though getting checked by Primal-Groudon is kind of harsh. Overall I would say move this up to B+. Failing that Groudon should be in B.

• 
  Thundurus: I agree with Orch. Unrank or seriously lower it. I've never liked using it in ubers since the generation started but these days it really doesn't seem to do anything. Primal-Groudon is a staple and totally ruins it and it offers no defensive synergy at all while returning minimal offensive power because electric is such a mediocre offensive type in the current meta.

• 
  Arceus-Electric: C-. This thing is honestly a shitmon now. You're better off with most other Arceus forms for Calm Mind sets.
  
• 
  Arceus-Poison: C. It's an ok Xerneas check and being an Arceus form that can absorb poison is cool too. But Primal-Groudon and the Latis are everywhere along with other checks to it which make it's life really hard.

• 
  Arceus-Psychic: C-. If Arceus-Fighting is worthy of that rank then it is too. There is next to no situations where you would actually want this thing because it's only stand out purpose is a general Mewtwo check, which is not only more rare in this meta but Arceus-Ghost already does that well enough while being able to fulfill other roles and check more threats. Arceus-Psychic is just too narrow and comes with too high an opportunity cost to justify using.
  
• 
  Mega-Lucario: There is far too much opportunity cost in proportion to it's usefulness, which is already next to nonexistent. Send it to C- at least.
  
• 
  Mega-Mawile: Same as Mega Lucario, send it to C- for not doing enough while coming with a bad cost.
  
• 
  Terrakion: Unrank. There really isn't much to say on it. There isn't much reason to use it over other options better suited to fill it's spot.
  
• 
  Victini: Unrank. It was an okay Xerneas check but now with more ways to do that and with more stops to it like Primal-Groudon there isn't much of a good reason to use it.

These are just the ones I completely agree on happening. There may be a few that I'm undecided on.

 

[Wargreymon]

What's the reasoning behind Primal Kyogre being A+? I'm genuinely curious. There's never much talk about it here and every time I have seen it used it doesn't do much except maybe bait in Primal Groudon. It's a good breaker I guess but in terms of overall effectiveness is it really as good as Darkceus or Ho-Oh?

 

[QueenOfHax]

Primal Kyogre is the only viable pokemon in ubers that can even hit PDon with a water attack (Surf Rayquaza is bad). Granted it can only do so as a revenge killer, but that alone is huge.
Also, 180 Sp. Attack, good overall bulk, good typing, solid movepool and arguably the best special tank in the game. It fully deserves its rank.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

Also mfw trashing on Fightceus, it checks Extreme Killer and Darkrai and lures annoying things like Mega Gengar with Thunder Wave. It's bad but I think it's better than Arceus-Ice at least o_o

^

I actually really like Fightceus in this meta. It can spam TWave or Toxic to cripple common switch-ins such as Lati@s, Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, and Arceus-Ghost; and, Fighting-Type Judgment just smashes any Toxic immunities such as Dialga and Ferrothorn (except Aegislash, it completely walls Fightceus, but, Klefki doesn't enjoy taking any damage). It's resistance to Stealth Rock is really nifty too, it especially helps Fightceus check threats such as Darkrai and EKiller, two common and obvious threats in ORAS. There's also a slew of other mons it checks by its typing alone, like, Kyurem-W, Darkceus, Rockceus, Lucario, Genesect, Tyranitar, Kangaskhan, and Heatran. The other thing that's clutch is having a free moveslot (Judgment / recover / status), so, Fightceus can sort of fix a team's weakness depending on what the user decides to run in the last slot; for instance, Stone Edge handles Ho-Oh really well, and Ice Beam makes short work of Giratina-O, Salamence, and Rayquaza. Hell, I even think double status can work. The matchup issues Fightceus has against Stall and some Hyper Offense is troublesome; but, the matchup against Balance and Bulky Offense is just great (again, just spreads status really well and has power when He needs it). I won't deny that it's complete food to Mega-Sableye, Aromatherapy Xerneas, and Clefable; but, those flaws are fixed well by certain types such as Steel and Poison. Hence, why I'm nominating it for a low rank.

Fightceus for C+ or B- > C-

 

[DoubleOD]

I am not going to comment on its current rank at all but I would like to take this opportunity to talk about an ability of Ditto that doesn't seem to get enough love: it's ability to scout. It works very well with two Pokemon in particular: Ho-Oh and Xerneas.

Ho-Oh is incredibly vulnerable to Stone Edge/Rock Slide and it seems every other Pokemon and its mother is putting a surprise Stone Edge to take care of this excellent bird. Specifically the following Pokemon which Ho-Oh would not otherwise be phased by will carry Stone Edge or Rock Slide: Giratina-O, Dialga, Arceus-Ground (sometimes normal Arceus!), Xerneas (even Geo!). The ability to use Ditto at safe times to switch into certain Pokemon and learn their movesets has won me several games today alone. For example, scouting a Xerneas and realizing it only had Moonblast and Focus Blast meant that I could safely switch Ho-Oh into it at will, at which point it would do even more damage. Ho-Oh is such a good Pokemon and using Ditto to learn the sets of some of the opposing mons can literally be the difference between a win and a loss.

The other mon Ditto benefits greatly is Xerneas for one specific reason: You can only Geomancy (realistically) once against a good player and the best weapon against that not-named-Klefki is phazing (the move ROAR, specifically, as Dragon Tail won't work on a Fairy and Whirlwind users almost always carry that move eg. Lugia, Skarmory). This specifically tends to be important with Primal Don - knowing whether it has Roar is not only important for Xerneas, but knowing if it has Stone Edge is super-important for Ho-Oh. Ditto is a key part of the Ditto/Xerneas/Ho-Oh win condition that I use and its scouting ability is the reason why.

With that being said, Ditto is not an easy Pokemon to use outside of Transform-into-Geoxern-and-sweep - it does take some practice to get its other perks down (for example, you can actually use Ditto to switch into Lugia if your opponent has no Pokemon that are Steel or Poison type because you can Toxic it back or Toxic whatever switches in) ... I am not advocating for any sort of rank here. I do believe its too low but I don't know what would be appropriate. However, with Stall being considerably less effective Ditto is certainly better than it was in XY.

 

[Bovine Colonel]

I'm not seeing any mention of Shaymin-Sky in this thread after a quick search. Is it not considered viable in ubers?

 

[Mr.378]

It is currently in B-Rank.

 

[dice]

orch u can't use a sample size of literally 2:1 spl games to justify ur premise of iceus being better than electric arc. electric arc checking ho-oh is actually a more important defensive niche than being a shaky check to yveltal / mence at best, and i'd say they should be on par in terms of C-tiering

 

[ChaosNemesis]

Why no tyranitar mega in D (huge opportunity cost)?
Salamence non mega for chansey rank (like Metagross non mega).

 

[Kyuzeth]

Why no tyranitar mega in D (huge opportunity cost)?
Salamence non mega for chansey rank (like Metagross non mega).

I don't think anyone uses regular Salamence when its Mega Evolution is absolutely everywhere and Salamencite is pretty much a necessity to make Salamence work. It's Mega Salamence that you use it for.

 

[wolfenstein]

Im not much of an ubers guy, but I have seen regular salamence work and have made it work. The defensive wish/dragon tail/protect/whatever set can actually do work and with intimidate it is an ok check to primal groudon. Obviously you'd only use it when you already have a mega slot though

 

[Aquasition]

Im not much of an ubers guy, but I have seen regular salamence work and have made it work. The defensive wish/dragon tail/protect/whatever set can actually do work and with intimidate it is an ok check to primal groudon. Obviously you'd only use it when you already have a mega slot though

Yeah, I've seen defensive regular mence used by Piexplode before in XY. Then again, using it nowadays in ORAS pretty much means you have a different mega, and don't forget about Mega-Mence's defence boost, too. Using it in this manner also requires a fair bit of team support, like Defoggers/Xern checks/Special Attackers/etc.

Needs more 3D, if you catch my drift. ;]

 

[Aquasition]

Why is Chansey outclassed by Blissey? O.o

Shed Shell allows blissey to switch out of Gothitelle/Gengar

 

[Freeroamer]

Why is Chansey outclassed by Blissey? O.o

OK this has been brought up before and I don't really have anything to add as canman explained it really well, so here you go:

Nope.

If you actually want an intelligent description, Mega Gengar turns Chansey into a total liability, trapping and eventually defeating it with Taunt+Sludge Wave. Blissey does not have this problem, as it can hold Shed Shell and use moves such as Flamethrower or Ice Beam much more effectively than Chansey can, meaning it can actually fit onto teams better due to not being absolute Mega Gengar chow. Also, Chansey is blacklisted (that's basically what Chansey Rank is), which means if you feel like discussing them, DON'T.

 

[DoubleOD]

Specially Defensive Mega-Tyranitar can actually body non-Geo Xern - it takes less than half from Moonblast in the sand. It also gets up rocks and makes a good pursuit user.

 

[brokenwings]

Specially Defensive Mega-Tyranitar can actually body non-Geo Xern - it takes less than half from Moonblast in the sand. It also gets up rocks and makes a good pursuit user.

Specially Defensive Mega Tyranitar is a set I have tried some lately; It's a pretty good answer to Darkrai, Yveltal, Darkceus, Mega Gengar, the Latis, and Ho-oh (kinda). The only problem is, it isn't THAT much better than regular Tyranitar, as it can do all of those things too, while being able to use an item and not taking up a mega slot. I think it can work on some stall teams, since they do tend to struggle with all those Pokemon I mentioned, and the added bulk generally lets it stay around longer than regular Tyranitar. However, the lack of recovery outside of Rest really sucks, and it has to run Toxic if it doesn't want to give Primal Groudon free switches.. Not to mention it comes with the opportunity cost of taking up a mega slot, which is probably its biggest drawback. I'm not sure if it should be ranked honestly but maybe it could go in D rank seeing as it's rather niche and has a ton of opportunity cost?

Also, it cannot beat Xerneas. That shouldn't be an argument for it being added.

 

[jackm]

Specially Defensive Mega-Tyranitar can actually body non-Geo Xern - it takes less than half from Moonblast in the sand. It also gets up rocks and makes a good pursuit user.

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 194-230 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO

calcs plz

Besides, if Xern isn't running Geomancy that means it's either a scarfed variant (threatens with Moonblast, Megahorn, and Close Combat) an all-out variant (same problem) or a defensive variant. I *guess* T-tar can sortof take on SDef variants (Stone Edge and Moonblast both 3HKO, but you lack recovery and can't really switch in--in short, it's an awful check) but PDef variants just maul you. Not saying it's necessarily a bad set, but it definitely can't take on Xerneas reliably.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

A Xerneas check shouldn't be a non-resist anyway, let alone a Fairy weak Pokemon as a Xerneas check. You don't use Arceus Dark as a Xerneas check because it can tank Moonblast at +1 when EVed properly, so don't do the same with a Pokemon without reliable recovery, is Ground weak, AND has no reliable recovery.

 

[DoubleOD]

252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 194-230 (48.1 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO

calcs plz

Besides, if Xern isn't running Geomancy that means it's either a scarfed variant (threatens with Moonblast, Megahorn, and Close Combat) an all-out variant (same problem) or a defensive variant. I *guess* T-tar can sortof take on SDef variants (Stone Edge and Moonblast both 3HKO, but you lack recovery and can't really switch in--in short, it's an awful check) but PDef variants just maul you. Not saying it's necessarily a bad set, but it definitely can't take on Xerneas reliably.

Okay I got a REALLY low roll then. I'm slightly less than 252+ and it did like 44

 

[superstar]

Can we discuss Mega Lopunny? I honestly think it is better and more viable than half of the garbage on this list. Sure it comes with a massive opportunity cost in that you can't use Diance or Gengar or Mence or even Blaziken, but it really has a lot going for it. Better than M-Metagross imo. It outspeeds the whole tier except Mewtwo, Deos, and scarfers while being a massive offensive threat:

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 174-205 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 222-262 (64.9 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 189-223 (59.2 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 261-307 (99.6 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock <-- outsped and OHKOd
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 296-350 (104.9 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 189-223 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 44.1% chance to 2HKO <-- Ho-Oh really, really doesn't want to switch in with a teensy bit of prior damage unless it is PhysDef
-1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 180 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 272-320 (72.3 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- return doesn't do all the much at -1 if you don't use Ice Punch. but if you double switch into it before it Mevolves you can 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 192-228 (59.2 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 348-410 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 348-410 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 174-205 (39.1 - 46.1%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 204-240 (63.3 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Plus if you want to risk HJK you turn a lot of these 2HKOs into borderline OHKOs. HJK is much more viable on Lopunny than Blaziken because you don't have to worry about ghosts. Also remember that you'll probably be running Fake Out so you can usually get free damage and get ever closer to that KO. It can also run STAB Quick Attack if you have strong MMence answers. Fake Out + Quick Attack does like 30% or so to GeoXern. Offense really just has a terrible time playing against it because they can't outspeed it.

 

[JebusChrist]

Can we discuss Mega Lopunny? I honestly think it is better and more viable than half of the garbage on this list. Sure it comes with a massive opportunity cost in that you can't use Diance or Gengar or Mence or even Blaziken, but it really has a lot going for it. Better than M-Metagross imo. It outspeeds the whole tier except Mewtwo, Deos, and scarfers while being a massive offensive threat:

M-Lop has 135 Base Speed, which beats Mewtwo and MM2X, but not Y after it's Mega'd.