ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread V6

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Delibird is what I'd like to call a 'high risk, varying reward' mon. It can definitely have the jump on certain builds due to the element of surprise, but overall, it's plagued by limited switch in opportunities and the reliance on playing efficiently with it so that you don't get forced out while possibly having to incur SR damage upon Delibird's next switch-in. It's really a gimmick at best, and I personally don't think it should be nommed for C.

I'm obviously clarifying for the more dense individuals in our community if they, for some reason, believed that MeowGod was being completely serious with this nom. Seriously though, don't use a team that gets 6-0d by Delibird ;]
 
hello friends

I would like to nominate Delibird for C.

While Delibird's typing leaves much to be desired defensively, it's offensive potential and surprise factor give it an interesting niche in UU. Hustle effectively gives Delibird approximately 12,000 atk before factoring in CB or LO, and if you're using LO you can take it one step further with PuP. It gets a host of great coverage moves, including Seed Bomb for all the bulky waters that infest the tier, FOCUS PUNCH for steels like Cobalion, and Ice Shard for useful prio, in addition to its general Ice/Flying STAB attacks. It also has a couple of nifty gimmicks that can support the team, most notably Destiny Bond (because let's face it, Delibird isn't living long).

It's SR weakness can be debilitating, yes, but with the right support, it can be a menace to the bulky offense and balance teams that are literally everywhere in today's metagame. If you need proof, here's a great replay of Santa being used to its fullest potential.
You forgot to include two VERY important points about Delibird.

1) It has access to BOTH Rapid Spin and Defog, making it the ideal hazard remover in the entire game; only ghosts with Taunt can stop it - which nobody uses in UU.
2) It has TWO abilities that give it immunity to sleep. Because one wasn't enough. Not like one has an added affect or anything... They're literally the same ability with a different name.
 
Alomomola to A-: Disagree Alo's rise may at first make sense, but in my opinion, despite being really good at what it does, Alomomola suffers from possibly the worst case of passiveness in the metagame, bar shuckle. While it can toxic the likes of DD Haxorus or NP Porygon Z, substitute Gyarados, Toxicroak, Suicune, and Heracross all have a ridiculously easy time coming in on it and setting up, while it can't really do much in return. It also shouldn't rise considering escav is in B+ as well, and is currently really good in terms of pressuring Sylveon-Krook cores and breaking through bulkier builds.

Blissey to B+: Agree Despite the fall of stall (rhyme not intended), this thing has been able to put in some serious work on slower balanced teams that need an answer to Hydreigon. It's able to check some of the tiers biggest special threats in Mega Sceptile, Sylveon, and Hydreigon with all of its great tools in twave, seismic toss and softboiled. It also passes bigger wishes than any other poke, which is nice.

Heliolisk to B+:
Disagree Heliolisk sure can do a team wonders if you need an answer to the tier's myriad of bulky waters, but it has too many negative traits atm that justify its staying in B. 62/52 physical bulk is abysmal against prominent threats in Mamoswine and Conkeldurr, and while you could argue that it has coverage to deal with its checks, signal beam, grass knot, and surf are too hard to fit onto the same moveset, which always leaves it missing coverage it may desperately need. B sounds about right for now.

Arcanine to B+:
Agree Arcanine used to struggle a bit in the meta, but with Krook and Sylv cores everywhere, and its access to recovery, intimidate, and the ability to check a few other pokemon rising in usage, this thing has really found its place in uu! Of course, it doesn't appreciate that sr weakness, or Krook coming on after it's dealt with Sylveon, which is why it shouldn't go above B+.

Milotic to B:
Agree It has a few things going for it that other bulky waters don't, the most notable being its ability to check set up sweepers in Gyarados and any calm mind user, but the decline of cm users bar Suicune and the fact that most other bulky waters bring more to the table makes me question why it shares a rank with a bulkier, more consistent, and more valuable water type in Alomomola.

Mega Houndoom to B:
On the fence Not really sure with this one. On one hand, it can take Celebi and Cobalion on with relative ease, but on the other hand, it can't touch Sylveon or Florges and dies to a lot of common stuff in Conk, Sylv and Infernape. I'm probably leaning towards drop, since the megas in B can contribute to a team more, but I'll let the rest of you guys decide.

Dragalge to B:
On the fence This is another one I'm struggling with. It can't come in on a hyper voice, which sucks for a poison type, but its dual stab coverage is great against most of the tier and not much can take an adaptability and specs boosted draco meteor/sludge wave.
 
Alomomola moving up to A- : Agree. It’s much harder to break than other water types who fall to burns and Knock Off and strong earthquakes thanks to higher bulk and regenerator. Yes it’s passive but still nothing wants to switch into Scald or Knock Off. Sub pokes aren’t common compared to stuff like Entei, Krook, Mamoswine which put a ton of pressure on other bulky waters. A- is fair imo.

Arcanine moving up to B+ : Agree. I think it's better than most things in B except Doublade, Blissey and Heliolisk, especially when you have mega Absol in the same rank which gets stomped by everything in this meta. Arcanine actually benefits from the trends and can make some good water/fire/grass cores with a water type spinner and Whimsicott or Celebi for example. People just need to stop using espeed on a defensive mon lol I think it’s so useless. Use Toxic to poison fire types and mess with walls (you beat heal bell Sylv btw), or Roar if you’re worried about sd baton pass Celebi and mons boosting on you after being burnt.

Heliolisk moving up to B+ : Agree: It has shit defense yes it falls to mach punch and banded espeed yes but being a bulky water type counter that threatens offense it’s rather good. Not much can switch into Hyper Voice there’s Empoleon and Blissey and a few other who are weak to Volt Switch and this can be annoying since it switches for free on most bulky waters and outspeeds a lot of stuff. Water type DDer are annoying but since its best teammates are mons like Entei or mega Aerodactyl or U turn scarfers to form a voltturn core, it isn’t a huge problem usually. I’m talking about the Specs set btw which I think is the best set to just fire off strong Hyper Voices, beat Suicune 100% of the time and trouble cleric Sylveon. Also it can tank some priority without the lo damage, adamant lo Mamoswine does 70% max.
 
I'd like to suggest that Mega Sharpedo go from A>A+. I'm amazed that this thing isn't considered a top tier threat. It can quite literally tear through entire teams with Stealth Rock and about 2 layers of Spikes, neither of which are at all hard to get, since it can easily blow through Defoggers and Rapid Spinners that aren't Forretress (which it can still go through with a mixed attacking nature and Hydro Pump).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-431867241

I literally go through this entire team with a row of spikes and Stealth Rock. Basically, Froslass took out Nidoqueen and Forretress sacrificed itself to put up rocks. From there, M Sharpedo took care of everything else, albeit with a small bit of luck.

Now some calcs, all of which feature there being rocks and a layer or 2 of spikes on the other end:

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 264-312 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 2 layers of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 417-492 (153.8 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (also outspeeds after 1 Speed boost, so that bee can fuck off)

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 318-374 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 250-295 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

When Salamence hit the road, this thing lost of its biggest checks. That in itself aughta be good enough to have it bumped up here.
 
I'd like to suggest that Mega Sharpedo go from A>A+. I'm amazed that this thing isn't considered a top tier threat. It can quite literally tear through entire teams with Stealth Rock and about 2 layers of Spikes, neither of which are at all hard to get, since it can easily blow through Defoggers and Rapid Spinners that aren't Forretress (which it can still go through with a mixed attacking nature and Hydro Pump).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-431867241

I literally go through this entire team with a row of spikes and Stealth Rock. Basically, Froslass took out Nidoqueen and Forretress sacrificed itself to put up rocks. From there, M Sharpedo took care of everything else, albeit with a small bit of luck.

Now some calcs, all of which feature there being rocks and a layer or 2 of spikes on the other end:

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 264-312 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 2 layers of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 417-492 (153.8 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (also outspeeds after 1 Speed boost, so that bee can fuck off)

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 318-374 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 250-295 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

When Salamence hit the road, this thing lost of its biggest checks. That in itself aughta be good enough to have it bumped up here.
So, Mega Pedo isn't that good actually how you think that it is. Threw did a cool nomination explaining why it isn't as good as the other A Rank Pokémon. Conkeldurr is almost everywhere and Sharpedo is frail as fuck, so you can't even resist a Mach Punch from it. Sylveon is omnipresent and it's cleric set is always going to wall Mega Sharpedo at full health. In Offense we have a lot of hard checks like Choice Scarf Hydreigon and Cobalion, not to mention that Sharpedo requires a lot of support to stay alive and healthy. Your calcs are showing absolutely nothing. Entei has Extreme Speed, so after prior damage Sharpedo is KOed. RoarCune can PP Stall Sharpedo without a Crunch drop. Beedrill is frail, this calc is showing nothing, lastly Gyarados and Krookodile are always using Intimidate, so your calc is invalid. Mega Sharpedo should drop instead of rise imo, since it's only utility at the moment is give a good Revenge Killer/Cleaner to Hyper Offense.
 
Banded Entei deals about 68% in 1 ESpeed, so you'll need plenty of prior damage on Mega Sharpedo. All about the M Pedo user being in the right place, right time. Sylveon does not wall M Pedo by any means, Poison Jab does a number on it, and though Sylveon will beat it, it'll need to take a pretty powerful blow before it does, and if it's got enough prior damage, M Pedo will break through it. Yeah, Hydreigon and Conkeldurr beat its ass and Cobalion walls it. If this thing had no problems and didn't need support, it would be banned.
 

TSR

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I'd like to suggest that Mega Sharpedo go from A>A+. I'm amazed that this thing isn't considered a top tier threat. It can quite literally tear through entire teams with Stealth Rock and about 2 layers of Spikes, neither of which are at all hard to get, since it can easily blow through Defoggers and Rapid Spinners that aren't Forretress (which it can still go through with a mixed attacking nature and Hydro Pump).
First off, I'm pointing out that taking any significant amount of EV's out of Sharpedo's attack is gonna severely weaken its power, something it already struggles with enough to the point of needing a specific team archetype (Spikes HO) to successfully overcome.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-431867241

I literally go through this entire team with a row of spikes and Stealth Rock. Basically, Froslass took out Nidoqueen and Forretress sacrificed itself to put up rocks. From there, M Sharpedo took care of everything else, albeit with a small bit of luck.
The replay you have here is far from a high or even mid level showcase of Sharpedo's effectiveness. Your opponent has three completely unviable pokemon on his team, and the battle seems to have occurred on the lowest rungs of the ladder. /rank-ing your opponent on PS provided further evidence:

Playing against someone like this proves nothing about how good Sharpedo is. Not to mention he had 2 chances to stop Sharpedo cold that you haxed through, Sharpedo lacked the power to OHKO Heracross even through two layers of hazards, and you crit Milotic that could have used Haze/Recover stall and eventually scald burned. Your team choice is also strange to say the least, with a suicude lead (that you didn't even click spikes three times despite being given ample opportunity to), Sharpedo, and four momentum sinks that let common hazard removers like Tentacruel, Empoleon and Crobat Defog/Spin without much risk. Essentially, the quality of this replay doesn't help your argument in the slightest.

Now some calcs, all of which feature there being rocks and a layer or 2 of spikes on the other end:

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 264-312 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery Most Cress run Colbur Berry

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 2 layers of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery only a 5% chance to 2HKO cune after three layers of hazards

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 417-492 (153.8 - 181.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (also outspeeds after 1 Speed boost, so that bee can fuck off) lol

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Entei: 318-374 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock again, pretty unimpressive damage, not even being a guaranteed OHKO w/o rocks

252 Atk Mega Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 332-392 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO every Krookodile runs Intimidate

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 250-295 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock every Gyarados runs Intimidate

When Salamence hit the road, this thing lost of its biggest checks. That in itself aughta be good enough to have it bumped up here.
Left my thoughts on these calcs in bold. Salamence was never a Sharpedo check, either.

Banded Entei deals about 68% in 1 ESpeed, so you'll need plenty of prior damage on Mega Sharpedo. All about the M Pedo user being in the right place, right time. Sylveon does not wall M Pedo by any means, Poison Jab does a number on it, and though Sylveon will beat it, it'll need to take a pretty powerful blow before it does, and if it's got enough prior damage, M Pedo will break through it. Yeah, Hydreigon and Conkeldurr beat its ass and Cobalion walls it. If this thing had no problems and didn't need support, it would be banned.
Poison Jab is inferior to Ice Fang in almost every case. Ice Fang provides pretty similar or even better coverage (bar fairies, which you fail to OHKO Sylv/Florges, and has a decent chance to kill Hydreigon after rocks) and gets the Strong Jaw boost. To repeat what Mr. Highways said, its simply not as good as other A or A+ rank pokemon. Your point that Sharpedo needs support is obvious, but it needs it to the point where it has to be the focal point of your team that only fits well on one archetype. Compared to top mons in the meta like Celebi and Mega Aerodactyl, that can fit on literally any archetype from hyper offense to hard stall, that require minimal support for their few weaknesses, Sharpedo does seem mediocre compared to them. Sharpedo is far from unviable but certainly not deserving to share A+ or S rank with things like Hydreigon that have proven over the course of ORAS to function with much less support than Sharpedo needs.
 

Pearl

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Been a while since I've last updated the thread, so here we go!

Changes:
  • Alomomola moved up from B+ to the bottom of A-
  • Blissey moved up from B to B+
  • Mega Houndoom moved down from B+ to B
  • Dragalge moved down from B to B-
  • Milotic moved down slightly within its current rank (B+)
  • Delibird added to the list!
As for new nominations, there aren't any Pokemon that feel out of place to me at the moment, but Bronzong could probably move up to B+, considering the insane amount of threats it keeps at bay by itself, while also being able to 1v1 Choice Band Krookodile with Toxic + Protect in some scenarios. Mega Sharpedo could be moved down, but I still feel like most people posting against it in this thread are underselling its ability to run through offensive teams. It's worth noting that Destiny Bond Mega Sharpedo is a thing too, so remember that. As for the nominations that didn't go through, feel free to discuss them some more. I feel like Heliolisk and Arcanine are fine in B, even if they're arguably better than some of the other Pokemon in that rank, but I might be underselling them at the moment.

Also, this should go without saying, but since there's a suspect test going on: please avoid speculating about it in your posts. We can talk about how much better or worse Pokemon A becomes in a metagame without Hydreigon after/if it gets banned. With that said, happy posting!
 

Hilomilo

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Bronzong should most definitely move up to B+. It's able to check one of the tier's biggest constraints on teambuiliding in Sylveon, which is a lot on its own, but alongside this, can set up rocks, provide teams with trick room support, use trick room itself with some attack evs and macho brace, and also check other specific threats, all in one sitting. Despite its flaws in weaknesses to fire and dark type attacks, all of its upsides should alone make it more comparable to support/utility pokemon in B+ like Florges and Sableye than those in B like Jellicent and Gligar.

As for Mega Sharpedo, the thing is overdue for a drop to A-. Offensive cores with Sylveon and Conkeldurr are omnipresent, and pokemon that carry intimidate like Gyarados and Krookodile are everywhere too. Yes, I know, it can tear through offense, but does that really compensate for its god awful bulk and lack of firepower against any other play style? Bulky builds don't mind the thing at all, and hell, even ENTEI can take care of it after it has some prior damage done with espeed. Overall, while Mega Pedo is certainly a monster, it's a big step behind really anything else in A right now.

Now, for a nomination of my own,
Rotom-Heat to B-. The B subrank is mighty overcrowded atm, and with an obvious gap between consistencies (such as mons like Heliolisk, Arcanine and Chandelure compared to, well, Rotom). While electric types are usually used to pressure the myriad of bulky waters in the tier, RH's secondary fire typing doesn't allow it to pressure things like Suicune and Alomomola as nearly as well as Rotom-Cut or Heliolisk, which it shares a rank with. It also has that dreaded stealth rock weakness, poor coverage, a lack of reliable recovery, and competition in its offensive and defensive roles from the above mentioned Pokemon, and while it doesn't NEED a drop, could definitely use one to better represent Heliolisk and Chandelure's effectiveness.
 

Kink

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Bronzong should most definitely move up to B+. It's able to check one of the tier's biggest constraints on teambuiliding in Sylveon, which is a lot on its own, but alongside this, can set up rocks, provide teams with trick room support, use trick room itself with some attack evs and macho brace, and also check other specific threats, all in one sitting. Despite its flaws in weaknesses to fire and dark type attacks, all of its upsides should alone make it more comparable to support/utility pokemon in B+ like Florges and Sableye than those in B like Jellicent and Gligar.

As for Mega Sharpedo, the thing is overdue for a drop to A-. Offensive cores with Sylveon and Conkeldurr are omnipresent, and pokemon that carry intimidate like Gyarados and Krookodile are everywhere too. Yes, I know, it can tear through offense, but does that really compensate for its god awful bulk and lack of firepower against any other play style? Bulky builds don't mind the thing at all, and hell, even ENTEI can take care of it after it has some prior damage done with espeed. Overall, while Mega Pedo is certainly a monster, it's a big step behind really anything else in A right now.

Now, for a nomination of my own,
Rotom-Heat to B-. The B subrank is mighty overcrowded atm, and with an obvious gap between consistencies (such as mons like Heliolisk, Arcanine and Chandelure compared to, well, Rotom). While electric types are usually used to pressure the myriad of bulky waters in the tier, RH's secondary fire typing doesn't allow it to pressure things like Suicune and Alomomola as nearly as well as Rotom-Cut or Heliolisk, which it shares a rank with. It also has that dreaded stealth rock weakness, poor coverage, a lack of reliable recovery, and competition in its offensive and defensive roles from the above mentioned Pokemon, and while it doesn't NEED a drop, could definitely use one to better represent Heliolisk and Chandelure's effectiveness.
Rotom-H should definitely not drop, as it's one of the most unique offensive and defensive pivots in the tier. I utilize Rotom-H to great effect, as with a little creativity it is able to shut down almost every Special Wall and set up sweeper bar Suicune and Reuniclus. Yes, I'm talking about Trick + Flame Orb. Its ability to also check Metagross cannot be overstated in this Sylveon infested meta, and its typing makes it a great partner for all Fairy types. Checking Crobat is also a unique trait without having to resort to using up a mega slot on Mega-Amph or Mega-Aggron.

The ability to use four effective and versatile sets cannot be overstated. Rotom-H is half the reason I won UU open (the other half being luck, but that's not the half I'm focusing on right now). I am very against it dropping.
 
Yanmega C->C+/B-
Yanmega had been the most underrated threat in UU for a while now, and I feel it definitely should go up a rank. Its speed boost allows it to sweep Hyper Offensive teams and it even can break through walls a lot of walls. Giga ohkos Swampert, 2hkos Suicune, and 2hkos defensive mega blastoise. It also has the bulk to take a lot priority attacks that lets it have an edge over sharpedo. For example:
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 149-176 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 156-184 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Although it does have the 4x weakness to rocks, It is easy to spin or defog away rocks espicially with dark pulse blastoise and Empoleon. In conclusion, i definitely feel like this thing needs distinction from its C rank speed boost brother in sharpedo. Here is a yanmega sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-443910687
 

Killintime

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Alright, my first time posting here. I need to get this off my chest though my god.
---------->A+

Now some of you might not agree with me on this, but I am sorry every time I use conkeldurr or see it being used by someone it continues to impress me as a mon. lets just look at some of these numbers:
-252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 160-189 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 300-354 (92.3 - 108.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
-252+ Atk Choice Band Conkeldurr Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 214-252 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252+ Atk Choice Band Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 234-276 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This mon hits ridiculously hard, has the coverage it honestly needs, and carries stab priority. Now you may say something like "but its slow...." or "it has no sp.def lool", but come on this thing has a great offensive typing that can take advantage of top tier mons like krook and a large amount of bulky waters hell it can eat aerial ace from mega aerodactly. Now I am not bringing this nom up for its banded set alone, I am mostly doing it for its BU set. As if its natural bulk wasnt good enough all it really has to do is simply knock the fairy the first time around (usually sylveon) and honestly they will wear themselves out thanks to their reliance on wish tect or just lacking healing in general. After that all it does is find one opportunity to bulk up and its suddenly stupidly bulky on both sides of the spectrum. Heck you dont even want status this darn thing till you're sure what set it could possibly be otherwise you could have a guts boosted mon with priority, sustainability in drain punch, and a possibility of becoming a major threat after one boost in the back of the opponents team. Its AV set is also a great offensive pivot fixing up a lot of holes in one mon thanks to the power it carries behind the bulk. I dont even need to bring up the fact that are so called counters such as sylveon or crobat are just as easily murdered with a simple click of coverage in poison jab or thunder punch.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-uu-188362 -Its also a powerful stall breaker that isnt dead weight in all forms of battle. You will almost always get work from a conk (granted it crit here)

So argue with me if you like, but I honestly feel like its out of place with mons like mega pedo or mamo as it can offer so much for every play style.
 
guys shouldnt vaporeon be a little higher? like it isnt bad , have some nice wish pass , is a bulky water type , things that alone it is outclassed but have its niche
 
guys shouldnt vaporeon be a little higher? like it isnt bad , have some nice wish pass , is a bulky water type , things that alone it is outclassed but have its niche
Vaporeon is almost 100% outclassed by alomomola. Vaporeon has better special attack, roar, heal bell, baton pass, and water absorb, but alomomola has regenerator, even bigger wishes, and knock off. Mostly regenerator makes it so fantastic, since it only needs one turn to heal itself and its teammates by switching,
 
There's a few different pokemon that I feel are out of place in their respective ranking, so here are some noms I'd like to make. Tell me what you guys think!

Tornadus to A- This thing has been criminally underrated for a long time now. Tornadus has amazing mixed attacking and speed stats, a great mixed movepool, and to top it off, two incredible abilities that allow it to support its team, take on all sorts of different playstyles, and revenge kill specific threats, and all in one sitting. Its defiant set allows it to take total advantage of defoggers like Empoleon and Crobat (which have been rising in popularity) and its access to prankster also allows it to effectively pull off bulk up sets, taunt leads, and through tailwind, allow itself to outspeed the entire meta game and sweep. Its special AND physical movepool are both diverse enough for it to hit the whole tier for super effective damage, and the ability to revenge kill things that can just plow through teams like NP Celebi and Infernape and to have so much versatility merely between its abilities is too valuable to keep it in a rank alongside things it's better than in Feraligatr and Mienshao.

Dugtrio to B- This thing really just doesn't compare with the other stuff in C+ right now, since arena trap is such a valuable tool and has been fairly underrated for a while now. With arena trap, Dugtrio is effectively able to trap specific threats in Espeon, Infernape, Chandelure, Entei, Cobalion, and even more, and either KO them or take a good chunk of their HP away to the point where they can be picked off by another one of its teammates. Although an 80 attack stat isn't stellar, 120 speed and choice band/life orb compensate for this to the extent in which this thing can make great use of attacks like Earthquake, Sucker Punch, Reversal and even Memento. Overall, Dugtrio's role as a trapper is really under appreciated and can do some pokemon like Suicune and Reuniclus wonders once their checks are gone.

Arcanine to B+ I know, this one has already been discussed, but if there was one change from last time's slate that I was positive would happen, it was Arcanine rising. Overall, this guy just has SO much defensive utility to bring to a team. It matches up against the omnipressent Sylveon/Krookodile/Celebi core extremely well, and is definitely being undersold in B, considering its abilities to recover itself alongside spread status, lower attack on the switch in, and provide decent offensive presence have all become more valuable.
 

warzoid

wreck into a poll like a Raichu volt
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Agree with Conk rising to A+. Bulk Up is such a threatening set, especially against teams without defensive Sylveon (which still loses its lefties). Bulk Up Conk isn't only good against stall either. Offense gets swept once Sylveon / Tornadus goes down. Stuff like Lucario, Mamoswine, Crawdaunt, Entei, and even Mega Aero all fold to a +1 Conk. A number of fighting checks such as Gligar, Sableye, and Tentacruel don't work against Conk either. It can also run Thunder Punch to bop Gyarados and Crobat.
 
Been using Durant recently and I'm really glad it's gotten ranked. I think it should be moved up higher though, to C+/B-.

Durant really capitalizes on the bulky offensive nature of the meta with its great Speed tier and incredible power for such a fast mon. Most significantly, it's a great offensive to check to some of the best Pokemon in the tier right now - Krookodile, Sylveon, Celebi, Aero, Cresselia, Mamo, Kyurem, and loads more. Incredibly strong Iron Head + respectable phys def means it easily beats offensive switchins like Coba and Mega Pert (3HKOing them even without hazard help while neither remotely threatens an OHKO back, or just 1/2HKOing with the appropriate move when 1v1). Appropriate pivot support from U-turn Celebi, BPass Sylveon, Heliolisk/Rotom to take advantage of opposing Sylv and stuff makes it very easy to pick up kills. Other than its accuracy, its main drawback is its terrible special D which means it can't actually utilize too many of its resistances, which makes that pivot support necessary when using it. Definitely worth a spot in one of the higher ranks though.

I also agree with palkia246's nomination of Dugtrio to B-, there's been some cool teams recently utilizing it with more pivot support. Assuredly getting rid of big threats like Entei and Tentacruel from the getgo (or at least limiting them severely) gives balance and bulky offense teams a huge advantage.
 
Yanmega C->C+/B-
Yanmega had been the most underrated threat in UU for a while now, and I feel it definitely should go up a rank. Its speed boost allows it to sweep Hyper Offensive teams and it even can break through walls a lot of walls. Giga ohkos Swampert, 2hkos Suicune, and 2hkos defensive mega blastoise. It also has the bulk to take a lot priority attacks that lets it have an edge over sharpedo. For example:
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 149-176 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yanmega: 156-184 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Although it does have the 4x weakness to rocks, It is easy to spin or defog away rocks espicially with dark pulse blastoise and Empoleon. In conclusion, i definitely feel like this thing needs distinction from its C rank speed boost brother in sharpedo. Here is a yanmega sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uususpecttest-443910687
Don't forget that Yanmega has Tinted Lens to make its STAB moves unresisted by the majority of pokemon in UU.
 

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