Bulk Up Taunt.
Can I just say how excited I am for this next generation of next best thing.
Can I just say how excited I am for this next generation of next best thing.
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Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project OU Next Best Thing: Cycle 87 - Not hosted anymore
- Thread starter BT89
- Start date
- Status
And the voting is over! By its results, the winner of the Cycle 2 is Assault Vest by Andrew Loh. Congratulations! Your submission will be added to the Hall of Fame soon. Ok, let's go straight to the next Cycle!
Cycle Three - Cinderace
Cinderace is mostly known for its signature move called Court Change which swaps hazards between players' sides. This isn't the only merit of Cinderace, however; it is also gifted with a nice Speed tier and pretty colorful movepool, including options like High Jump Kick, U-turn, Sucker Punch, and Taunt. Obviously Cinderace can run a lot of sets different from its usual Court Change, and we would like you guys to demonstrate some amazing Cinderace stuff!
Banned Sets
The deadline is Monday 10th of February. Good luck!
Katy
Banned deucer.
Cinderace @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch
- High Jump Kick
Since Cinderace is already pretty fast, I think you can get away with slapping a Choice Band on it. Cinderace has a good Attack-Stat and a good Speed to make use of for the Choice Band Set. Cinderace ability in Blaze strengthen up the fire attacks, when it is at low health so paired up with a CB the Pyro Ball gets really strong and can weaken threats on the opposing team easily. U-Turn is to gain obviously some momentum, HJK as a coverage option, last slot is reserved for Sucker Punch since Ghost-Spam is really popular right now and they cannot just attack you without taking a massive damage or rather getting OHKOed in the precess.
Choice Band Cinderace is even better, when its Hidden Ability in Libero will be released therefore havin' pretty much STAB on every move it picks from its Movepool.
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Choice Scarf
Cinderace @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch / Court Change
When holding a Choice Scarf, Cinderace becomes one of the few Pokemon capable of both outspeeding a Shell Smash-boosted Cloyster and avoiding the 2HKO from its Ice Shard. It can also be used to deal with slower scarfers, such as Rotom-Heat.
Pyro Ball hits hard even without a damage-boosting item, High Jump Kick provides good neutral coverage, and U-turn allows Cinderace to generate momentum or escape from unfavorable matchups. Sucker Punch 2HKOs Dragapult, but if your team can't fit hazard control on anything else, Court Change can be run instead.
Cinderace @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Sucker Punch / Court Change
When holding a Choice Scarf, Cinderace becomes one of the few Pokemon capable of both outspeeding a Shell Smash-boosted Cloyster and avoiding the 2HKO from its Ice Shard. It can also be used to deal with slower scarfers, such as Rotom-Heat.
Pyro Ball hits hard even without a damage-boosting item, High Jump Kick provides good neutral coverage, and U-turn allows Cinderace to generate momentum or escape from unfavorable matchups. Sucker Punch 2HKOs Dragapult, but if your team can't fit hazard control on anything else, Court Change can be run instead.
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Bulk Up + 3 Attacks
Cinderace @ Flame Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Bulk Up
-Pyro Ball
-High Jump Kick
-Zen Headbutt / Sucker Punch
This set will be far better when Libero is released but it's fine for now. Bulk Up plus a boosting item makes Pyro Ball hit frighteningly hard while HJK has good neutral coverage. Zen Headbutt is so it's not walled by Toxapex but Sucker Punch helps in dealing with Dragapult and other potential revenge killers.
Life Orb helps secure a few KOs if hazards aren’t up, such as on Toxapex and Dragapult with Zen Headbutt and Sucker Punch, respectively, but Flame Plate is generally preferable to prevent Cinderace from being worn down too quickly.
zbr it’s cool don’t worry about it
Cinderace @ Flame Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Bulk Up
-Pyro Ball
-High Jump Kick
-Zen Headbutt / Sucker Punch
This set will be far better when Libero is released but it's fine for now. Bulk Up plus a boosting item makes Pyro Ball hit frighteningly hard while HJK has good neutral coverage. Zen Headbutt is so it's not walled by Toxapex but Sucker Punch helps in dealing with Dragapult and other potential revenge killers.
Life Orb helps secure a few KOs if hazards aren’t up, such as on Toxapex and Dragapult with Zen Headbutt and Sucker Punch, respectively, but Flame Plate is generally preferable to prevent Cinderace from being worn down too quickly.
zbr it’s cool don’t worry about it
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Endure + Liechi Berry Cinderace
Cinderace @ Lieici Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch
- Endure
The idea of this set is simple. You use Endure to get to 1 HP, which will activate Liechi Berry for the attack boost, activate Blaze to boost Pyro Ball, and give max damage to Reversal. Sucker Punch is to avoid other priority users from KOing you at 1 HP. I think this set could be used to clean late-game, or maybe bait in something like Seismitoad to damage it heavily. Here are some relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 260-307 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 268-316 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 183-216 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 357-420 (90.6 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 390-459 (91.9 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Cinderace @ Lieici Berry
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch
- Endure
The idea of this set is simple. You use Endure to get to 1 HP, which will activate Liechi Berry for the attack boost, activate Blaze to boost Pyro Ball, and give max damage to Reversal. Sucker Punch is to avoid other priority users from KOing you at 1 HP. I think this set could be used to clean late-game, or maybe bait in something like Seismitoad to damage it heavily. Here are some relevant calcs:
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 260-307 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 268-316 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 183-216 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 357-420 (90.6 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 390-459 (91.9 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
flexible sub set
Cinderace @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Substitute
- Bulk Up / Taunt
- High Jump Kick
With it's speed and access to a boosting move and taunt, it can easily set up subs on fat mons like clef and friends and depending on what your team needs, it can opt to go for taunt to force out support mons or bulk up to up it's breaking potential.
hope this isn't too similar to the bulk up set
Cinderace @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Substitute
- Bulk Up / Taunt
- High Jump Kick
With it's speed and access to a boosting move and taunt, it can easily set up subs on fat mons like clef and friends and depending on what your team needs, it can opt to go for taunt to force out support mons or bulk up to up it's breaking potential.
hope this isn't too similar to the bulk up set
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First off, I really like this set.
I have been testing it and have been personally finding more success with adamant. Everything jolly is meant to outspeed gets picked off by sucker punch. It converts a few of those calcs to 100% KOs after rocks. Here are the updated calcs if you were to instead run adamant
+1 252+ Atk Cinderace Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 287-338 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 294-348 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 202-238 (95.7 - 112.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 391-462 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 429-505 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 294-348 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Cinderace Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dugtrio: 202-238 (95.7 - 112.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 391-462 (99.2 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 429-505 (101.1 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Toxapex: 141-166 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 119-141 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 278-330 (69.5 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 190-225 (44.8 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 300-354 (92.5 - 109.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 278-330 (69.5 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 190-225 (44.8 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 300-354 (92.5 - 109.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Adamant Life Orb Super Fang Cinderace
Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Super Fang
- Zen Headbutt
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
The set baits defensive switch-ins to Cinderace to take the Super Fang + Life Orb Pyro Ball combo. U-turn is useful to let another Pokemon take care of what Cinderace can't kill immediately.
Zen Headbutt is useful against Toxapex and Kommo-o who will make Cinderace able to activate Blaze if they decide to attack if Zen Headbutt doesn't kill.
Note that Sucker Punch can be used instead of Zen Headbutt or U-turn for Dugtrio or Dragapult.
The Blaze ability helps Cinderace kill some important threats. Libero can be used for the stab Zen headbutt. (Can be burned vs Toxapex)
Calcs
Some of them are done manually because Super Fang isn't recognized as an attack that "Does damage equal to 1/2 target's current HP." I apologize for any error.
Calcs done after Stealth Rock + Super Fang
Toxapex
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 125-148 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
Chance of flinch or activating Blaze after a scald.
Kommo-o
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Kommo-o: 146-172 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Interesting Calcs
Calcs done after Stealth Rock + Super Fang + Blaze Pyro Ball (The Jolly nature is included if the Adamant nature already kills and if you plan to go Jolly on this set.)
Rotom-Wash
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-Heat (heavy boots)
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 165-195 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(kills if defensive lefto ofc)
Hydreigon
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hydreigon: 191-226 (58.7 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Gyarados (Leftovers)
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 156-183 (47.1 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hippowdon
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 226-266 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Seismitoad gets a good chunk too.
In some situations, it would be preferable to take entry hazards to activate Blaze early.
It was fun looking for calcs and what it can kill.
Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Super Fang
- Zen Headbutt
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
The set baits defensive switch-ins to Cinderace to take the Super Fang + Life Orb Pyro Ball combo. U-turn is useful to let another Pokemon take care of what Cinderace can't kill immediately.
Zen Headbutt is useful against Toxapex and Kommo-o who will make Cinderace able to activate Blaze if they decide to attack if Zen Headbutt doesn't kill.
Note that Sucker Punch can be used instead of Zen Headbutt or U-turn for Dugtrio or Dragapult.
The Blaze ability helps Cinderace kill some important threats. Libero can be used for the stab Zen headbutt. (
Calcs
Some of them are done manually because Super Fang isn't recognized as an attack that "Does damage equal to 1/2 target's current HP." I apologize for any error.
Calcs done after Stealth Rock + Super Fang
Toxapex
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 125-148 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
Chance of flinch or activating Blaze after a scald.
Kommo-o
252+ Atk Life Orb Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Kommo-o: 146-172 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Interesting Calcs
Calcs done after Stealth Rock + Super Fang + Blaze Pyro Ball (The Jolly nature is included if the Adamant nature already kills and if you plan to go Jolly on this set.)
Rotom-Wash
252+ Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Rotom-Heat (heavy boots)
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 165-195 (54.4 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(kills if defensive lefto ofc)
Hydreigon
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hydreigon: 191-226 (58.7 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Gyarados (Leftovers)
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 156-183 (47.1 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hippowdon
(Jolly) 252 Atk Life Orb Blaze Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 226-266 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Seismitoad gets a good chunk too.
In some situations, it would be preferable to take entry hazards to activate Blaze early.
It was fun looking for calcs and what it can kill.
SubReversal Cinderace
Cinderace @ White Herb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal
General idea
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel, here we have SubReversal Cinderace, a variation of a set above.
Substitute is picked over Endure in order to avoid annoying Thunder Waves (or other status moves) that hinders our sweeping capability; also, Substitute cuts our HP in order to have a strong Reversal at our disposal.
White Herb is picked in order to avoid annoying stat drops such as Intimidate and/or Sticky Web which ruins the offensive cpabilities of Cinderace.
Odd HP are chosen in order to create 4 Substitutes while being still alive at 1 health point.
Cinderace @ White Herb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Pyro Ball
- Sucker Punch
- Reversal
General idea
Scrapping the bottom of the barrel, here we have SubReversal Cinderace, a variation of a set above.
Substitute is picked over Endure in order to avoid annoying Thunder Waves (or other status moves) that hinders our sweeping capability; also, Substitute cuts our HP in order to have a strong Reversal at our disposal.
White Herb is picked in order to avoid annoying stat drops such as Intimidate and/or Sticky Web which ruins the offensive cpabilities of Cinderace.
Odd HP are chosen in order to create 4 Substitutes while being still alive at 1 health point.
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Bulk up + Blunder Policy
Cinderace @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch
- Bulk Up
With a solid speed tier and access to sucker punch Cinderace is capable of handling many threats in the meta, especially after a +2 speed, and bulk up.
At +1 Def cinderace can even tank a +2 sucker from bisharp, making it difficult to revenge kill once it gets set up. Gunk shot hits fairy types and serves as your main way to get your blunder policy activated.
Cinderace @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch
- Bulk Up
With a solid speed tier and access to sucker punch Cinderace is capable of handling many threats in the meta, especially after a +2 speed, and bulk up.
At +1 Def cinderace can even tank a +2 sucker from bisharp, making it difficult to revenge kill once it gets set up. Gunk shot hits fairy types and serves as your main way to get your blunder policy activated.
Flame Charge Cinderace
Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flame Charge
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick / Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch
Flame Charge allows Cinderace to outspeed practically any Scarfer in the current metagame. If you're able to set it up, it can very quickly become too fast to deal with.
High Jump Kick vs Gunk Shot depends on what you want to build your team around. Personally, I like Gunk Shot more over HJK to deal with Fairies better, but HJK does better against mons that resist Pyro.
Sucker is insurance for all the ghosts running around, and once you have a Flame Charge up, ensures you beat sucker Duggy with chip.
Cinderace @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flame Charge
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick / Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch
Flame Charge allows Cinderace to outspeed practically any Scarfer in the current metagame. If you're able to set it up, it can very quickly become too fast to deal with.
High Jump Kick vs Gunk Shot depends on what you want to build your team around. Personally, I like Gunk Shot more over HJK to deal with Fairies better, but HJK does better against mons that resist Pyro.
Sucker is insurance for all the ghosts running around, and once you have a Flame Charge up, ensures you beat sucker Duggy with chip.
Time to vote guys! There are 10 submissions so far:
Choice Band by Katy 
Choice Scarf by InvisibleWater 
Bulk Up 3 Attacks by JTD783 
Endure by Pro_Hybrid 
Substitute by zbr 
Super Fang by KabilaPok 
SubReversal by nameless90 
Assault Vest by Acey - Danse Macabre 
Flame Charge by ReadTheMango The deadline is Thursday 13th of February.
In a similar boat as 2bainz, CB should be a legit set. Therefore my vote goes to Endure + Liechi Berry. It's a bit gimmicky, but can get the job done.
Bulk Up + 3 Attacks
- Status