OU Team - RMT

[Matt_Lane]

About two weeks ago my friend David called me asking me to help him make a team. I had not played for a few months consistently but I told him I would and so the evolution of this team began. He already had ideas and just wanted a direct peer review as the team was forming to help see things he might have overlooked. Well, needless to say I decided to play around with the team myself and have decided to get back into Pokémon. I'm still a little rusty from my extended vacation, but I'm starting to make full-circle for "delivering" as far as playing good is concerned. I'm posting this team not because I believe it needs major reconstruction, but because I would like peer review outside of David and myself to see if maybe we're missing something. All in all the team is playing extremely well and we have yet to find a "hole" in the team that is significant enough a threat to have to alter the team itself to fix (because doing so will open a bigger "hole" then the one it's fixing). When I say a "hole" I mean something like Lum Berry Offensive Trick Room Bronzong ... ya, something that is uncommon and not worth changing just to beat. Anyway, here's the team - hope you guys enjoy the read:

Overview

Detailview

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Jolly | Sand Veil
252 Hit Points | 40 Defense | 216 Speed
U-turn
Taunt
Stealth Rock
Earthquake

We've gone through a lot of leads...from Machamp to Azelf to Jirachi and many others...but they never really fit well with the overall team. Then we thought about Gliscor: immunity to Earthquake and Thunder Wave/Bolt, can carry both Taunt and Stealth Rock, and can U-Turn off quicker Taunter's (Azelf and Aerodactyl usually) to go to something that will kill them after they set up Stealth Rock - it was pretty perfect for the team. The fact that it functions as a wall for later in the game is really helpful to permit resistance-switch-ins to shift around queer situations that can come up throughout the battle. Another advantage of using a Pokémon that lives after it's set-up (unlike Azelf for example) it can also serve as a status absorber if need be (against, for example, a Breloom that comes out at a bad time) since it's usually not helping offensively after it switches out in the beginning (although I have won games solely because I had this). Earthquake is just the best move to fill the spot for STAB and dealing with the fire leads that come out (Infernape and Heatran).

So I've introducted the lead to you, next comes the steel-check of my team...

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Bold | Levitate
252 Hit Points | 252 Defense | 4 Special Attack
Will-o-wisp
Discharge / Thunderbolt (I'm testing Discharge)
Substitute
Shadow Ball

This is a special-designed Rotom-h set that you won't find on smogon or anything of that nature. I have friends who are really good players and one of them designed this Rotom and gave me the set. Basically, it is designed to counter steel types (besides Heatran) and Gyarados. Rather than EV'd to have Speed, this Rotom is designed to take the hits much better. The reason why the Speed investment is bad in the smogon set is because it's really outdated to be honest...the Speed EV's on smogon declare that they should be invested so that Rotom can "outrun maximum Speed Adamant Scizor"...why is that important considering 99% of Scizor's are Choice Band and invest in HP and Attack rather than Speed anyway? Even so, Rotom can take the hit regardless and Will-o-Wisp to cripple every time. Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball are just standard moves on the Rotom for double STAB to permit pressure on enemies. Finally, the set pulls Substitute over the stereotypical Over Heat because it's better if used correctly. Just the fear of Over Heat is enough - you don't have to actually use it on a defensive Rotom like this. Yes, they'll figure out you don't have it - after they've already switched out a time or two which is the point. Substitute is really good because it lets you avoid doing something like Will-o-Wisp a Heatran and can avoid status or just impose more pressure on whatever switches in because it can't directly hurt Rotom anymore. One of the most common examples is Sub'ing on the switch when they go to Tyranitar...now I can Will-o-Wisp as it Pursuits my Sub and the Rotom has just crippled it's own counter so that it's useless. Really good and effective set when used right with prediction.

I'm testing Discharge over Thunderbolt on Rotom because the 10 base drop still KO's the threats like Gyarados but give an advantage to "double status" with the Rotom which can prove very helpful since Substitute is up sometimes and not everything wants to be burned.

The next Pokémon replaced the recently retired Scizor...and is arguably the best steel type in the game currently...

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Bold | Serene Grace
252 Hit Points | 176 Speed | 80 Special Attack
Wish
Thunderbolt
Calm Mind
Psychic

The set was used to give a potential late-game sweeper, but also because this set will beat Empoleon 100% of the time so long as it doesn't critical hit the first 2 or 3 Surfs. The main "trick" to this set was using the EV's from another Jirachi set onto the Calm Mind + Sub set but using Wish instead of Substitute. The EV's create a very bulky Pokémon that takes hits like a pro and can dish them back out pretty hard. 80 Special Attack is invested because it is the minimum Special Attack that this Jirachi can use and still OHKO Breloom 100% of the time. Thunderbolt and Psychic give Jirachi the best coverage while still maintaing STAB; Wish was implicated onto the set because it allowed this to counter Empoleon every time but also because the Wish support can be really useful to heal Rotom, Gliscor, and Tyranitar during the match if the need arises (mainly Rotom).

This is the Pokémon that team was "built around"...so of course it has a place on the team...

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Adamant | Poison Heal
12 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 244 Speed
Focus Punch
Spore
Substitute
Seed Bomb

Breloom has become so good recently. It's really because people realized how to use it, and the slow Pokémon people use such as Swampert, Blissey, Skarmory, Bronzong, etc is just begging to be set up on. The set is extremely standard with nothing really to note on that isn't just what everyone uses. Seed Bomb > Leech Seed so that Breloom has better "sweeping" abilities. The EV's are standard, 12 in Hit Points to give a "perfect" Poison Heal number (percentage wise), 252 Attack, and the rest invested in Speed. This is one of the most potentially devastating Pokémon when used right.

Everyone knows you have to have a good lead, a steel type, and a water type on every team...guess what's next....

Starmie @ Life Orb
Timid | Natural Cure
4 Hit Points | 252 Speed | 252 Special Attack
Ice Beam
Recover
Thunderbolt
Surf

I <3 this Starmie like it's my unborn child ;). Biggest thing Starmie does is force Mixmence out while I Life Orb Surf the shit out of whatever comes in. I tried Expert Belt and Choice Scarf...but Belt didn't give me the power on neutral hits I wanted and I hated not being able to switch my moves on this Pokémon since it outspeeds most things that switch in anyway. The set gives Starmie perfect neutral coverage and Recover is on there to nullify Life Orb and Stealth Rock and predicted switches when Starmie needs it. The set also can Speed-tie DD Mence after 1 Dragon Dance but that's pretty irrelevant since most Salamence are mixed now and Rotom can always burn the dancing ones.

As I said earlier...the team was built with the thought of "Breloom is on the team"...well, if Breloom is on the team, then guess who else MUST be on the team because they both hit each other's counters very well...

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Jolly | Sand Stream
4 Hit Points | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
Crunch
Pursuit
Stone Edge
Superpower

When I quit playing Pokémon a while back, ScarfTar didn't exist...in fact, if someone said "Scarf on Tyranitar" I would have been like "WTF" because it just wasn't "the set" to use on it. Well, times have changed, and I love it now. This set allows me to kill Azelf lead 100% of the time (U-Turn -> Tyranitar -> Pursuit) which is very awesome. Stone Edge wrecks Gyarados and Salamence (even after Intimidate if they aren't bulky) as well as Zapdos. Pursuit allows it to kill anything frail that has to switch (like SpecsJolteon stuck on HP Ice) or most Ghost types (nom nom nom gengar azelf rotom starmie nom nom nom). Superpower > Earthquake because it hits opposing Tyranitar, Heatran, and Blissey harder. The last spot obviously has to be Crunch so it can just dent a lot of stuff on the switch or if I think they'll stay in rather than Pursuit if Pursuit isn't a kill if they don't switch.


Finalview

The team has been playing extremely successfully, and I'm really liking the team - even though it is very standard and has little to no creativity. So post comments on the team in general, fixes, tweaks, etc on the team - but please be sure to justify your answers with valid data. I'll listen to what you have to say but not if you don't give me "proof" or good "reasoning" for why I should or should not do _____ on or with the team.

Thanks,
Matt​

 

[jc104]

This looks like a very solid team, with most checks well-covered.

I would suggest raising the speed Evs on your Gliscor to 252. This is fast becoming standard. Winning the speed battle againt other Gliscor is crucial so that you can beat them to the taunt, so people began to add extra speed points until a number became sick of this and ismply maximised their speed. This will guarantee at least a tie with those opposing Gliscor.

Your team has a rather large weakness to Dragon Dance Salamence. Salamence can find an opportunity to set up on Gliscor, Breloom, and Tyranitar locked into Pursuit or Superpower and can outrun and OHKO any member of your team after this point. You current best hope is lure an Outrage, sack something to it and bring Jirachi in. Your Jirachi still has a considerable chance of being 2HKOed by Outrage, even without any prior damage. You can then deal 40-50% damage back, which potentially allows him to OHKO another member of your team with Outrage before falling to LO recoil. If Jirachi has fainted or fallen below 50%, the sweep is almost guaranteed. Though you can deal with MixMence with some prediction, the situation here is far from ideal either. Leftovers Dragon claw versions of DDmence can also pose a huge problem if your Rotom is weakened, and Lum berry versions are virtually guaranteed a sweep.

Unfortunately, dealing with Salamence through one simple change is not really possible without seriously jeopordising your team. The choice Band Scizor that used to be in Jirachi's place would presumably have done a decent job of it, but I understand what a valuable sweeper CM Rachi is, particularly to this sort of team. Nonetheless, a more defensive spread might help slightly. Things that can outrun a Max speed Salamence after a DD are few and far between. Scarf Starmie and Gengar are notable ones, but are massive pursuit bait, and far inferior to your current Life Orb Starmie in cleaning up. Scarf Jirachi is another possibility, and although he is not guaranteed to outrun +1 mence, can easily revenge one locked into Outrage, and can deal with Mixed versions with relative ease. Often, on this variety of team, I try to use a Calm Mind + 3 attacks (or Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Surf, Rest) Suicune, with a defensive spread, as my "counter" to Salamence, but remember that if slightly weakened this will fail.

The very least you can do is put a Steel Type on the team that can actually KO a Salamence in a tight situation. A support Jirachi could, for instance, paralyse Salamence and flinch it do death with Iron Head (or use Ice punch if you put it on there.)

Lets just hope mence gets banned. Good luck.

 

[Shimrit As]

Hi, your team has a stable core and decent synergy type-wise. However, I have a few comments to make.

Firstly, your team seems rather weak to stall, because such teams can set-up entry hazards on stuff like Jirachi and Tyranitar. Although Gliscor carries Taunt to break down stall teams, lacking Roost is a big headache because he cannot hope to continually switch-in while having to tank hits from Machamp and Tyranitar. And LO Starmie is a great weapon against stall, but the lack of Rapid Spin means Blissey can just stall you out. Another thing I noticed was that you are quite vulnerable to DDMence and DDGyara, especially the former.

The first thing to do would be to swap U-turn to Roost on Gliscor. Against Azelf you can still switch to Tyranitar and break its sash with Sand Stream, and for other Taunters like Aerodactyl you can use Breloom with its resistance to SE/EQ to 2HKO it.

Next, with Rotom losing HP to Substitute and Jirachi not being nearly bulky enough, Offensive Gyarados and Salamence can be hell if you let them get a Dragon Dance in. May I suggest you scarfing Jirachi to take on these theats better? Iron Head + Thunderpunch will allow you to revenge both, Trick can cripple stall teams and U-turn is a good scouting move against offensive teams. Although you lose a potential sweep and Wish support, given that it patches up such gaping weaknesses, I think it is worth it.

I hope I helped, please take my suggestions into consideration.

EDIT: Oh no I type too slowly..

 

[Matt_Lane]

This looks like a very solid team, with most checks well-covered.

I would suggest raising the speed Evs on your Gliscor to 252. This is fast becoming standard. Winning the speed battle againt other Gliscor is crucial so that you can beat them to the taunt, so people began to add extra speed points until a number became sick of this and ismply maximised their speed. This will guarantee at least a tie with those opposing Gliscor.

Your team has a rather large weakness to Dragon Dance Salamence. Salamence can find an opportunity to set up on Gliscor, Breloom, and Tyranitar locked into Pursuit or Superpower and can outrun and OHKO any member of your team after this point. You current best hope is lure an Outrage, sack something to it and bring Jirachi in. Your Jirachi still has a considerable chance of being 2HKOed by Outrage, even without any prior damage. You can then deal 40-50% damage back, which potentially allows him to OHKO another member of your team with Outrage before falling to LO recoil. If Jirachi has fainted or fallen below 50%, the sweep is almost guaranteed. Though you can deal with MixMence with some prediction, the situation here is far from ideal either. Leftovers Dragon claw versions of DDmence can also pose a huge problem if your Rotom is weakened, and Lum berry versions are virtually guaranteed a sweep.

Unfortunately, dealing with Salamence through one simple change is not really possible without seriously jeopordising your team. The choice Band Scizor that used to be in Jirachi's place would presumably have done a decent job of it, but I understand what a valuable sweeper CM Rachi is, particularly to this sort of team. Nonetheless, a more defensive spread might help slightly. Things that can outrun a Max speed Salamence after a DD are few and far between. Scarf Starmie and Gengar are notable ones, but are massive pursuit bait, and far inferior to your current Life Orb Starmie in cleaning up. Scarf Jirachi is another possibility, and although he is not guaranteed to outrun +1 mence, can easily revenge one locked into Outrage, and can deal with Mixed versions with relative ease. Often, on this variety of team, I try to use a Calm Mind + 3 attacks (or Calm Mind, Ice Beam, Surf, Rest) Suicune, with a defensive spread, as my "counter" to Salamence, but remember that if slightly weakened this will fail.

The very least you can do is put a Steel Type on the team that can actually KO a Salamence in a tight situation. A support Jirachi could, for instance, paralyse Salamence and flinch it do death with Iron Head (or use Ice punch if you put it on there.)

Lets just hope mence gets banned. Good luck.

To be completely honest I know that DDMence is pretty difficult for my team to take on, and the only reason why I haven't altered anything to specific be able to handle it is because it's just going to get banned soon anyway (there's really no question if it will or not) so I'm just kind of "riding" out the rest of it's reign. In fact, I might just play suspect ladder more with this team to further test it out.

As for Gliscor, I want mine to have that little bulk to be at least a little more tank-ish while still being able to outspeed things for taunt. I can not stand Taunt speed tie battles becuase it's just too risky putting such a thing on a 50/50 because losing the tie results in their Stealth Rock automatically getting set up with no problems. So far, when I face a Gliscor lead (which is really uncommon to begin with) I just use U-Turn on their Taunt and go to Starmie. This nullify's their Taunt and forces the switch to prevent the Stealth Rock. The only reason that having to speedtie the oppossing Gliscor is if they use Toxic (instead of Taunt or Stealth Rock) the Gliscor before it U-Turns out. Also, if the opposing Gliscor opts for max speed and U-Turns, that makes the lower speed even better for the lead spot.

So this all basically comes down to I'm willing to struggle with he Salamence sets until he gets banned rather than alter the team to handle it better.

Hi, your team has a stable core and decent synergy type-wise. However, I have a few comments to make.

Firstly, your team seems rather weak to stall, because such teams can set-up entry hazards on stuff like Jirachi and Tyranitar. Although Gliscor carries Taunt to break down stall teams, lacking Roost is a big headache because he cannot hope to continually switch-in while having to tank hits from Machamp and Tyranitar. And LO Starmie is a great weapon against stall, but the lack of Rapid Spin means Blissey can just stall you out. Another thing I noticed was that you are quite vulnerable to DDMence and DDGyara, especially the former.

The first thing to do would be to swap U-turn to Roost on Gliscor. Against Azelf you can still switch to Tyranitar and break its sash with Sand Stream, and for other Taunters like Aerodactyl you can use Breloom with its resistance to SE/EQ to 2HKO it.

Next, with Rotom losing HP to Substitute and Jirachi not being nearly bulky enough, Offensive Gyarados and Salamence can be hell if you let them get a Dragon Dance in. May I suggest you scarfing Jirachi to take on these theats better? Iron Head + Thunderpunch will allow you to revenge both, Trick can cripple stall teams and U-turn is a good scouting move against offensive teams. Although you lose a potential sweep and Wish support, given that it patches up such gaping weaknesses, I think it is worth it.

I hope I helped, please take my suggestions into consideration.

EDIT: Oh no I type too slowly..

The team really isn't weak to stall. We lead with a Taunt Gliscor which can slow down Stall teams from the beginning and force switches. Starmie can clean up almost everything on a Stall team besides Blissey. Jirachi can Calm Mind + Wish on most things on Stall while killing the Skarmory trying to Whirlwind and doing over 1/2 to Hippowdon (who then cannot Roar me into Gliscor, Starmie, Breloom, or Rotom) and then finish the kill after the Roar.

Roost is only used on Gliscor when it is intended to be a "check" for Pokemon like Lucario or Heracross. This Gliscor is not desgined for that. Although it CAN be used as that if the need arises, the "purpose" of this Gliscor is to give a good position against opposing leads - even killing some of them. U-Turn gives the team momentum by allowing me to switch to force pressure on the battle or to break sash and kill a lead giving me an advantage by forcing them down a Pokemon and not allowing the Pokemon to be damage fodder.

Gyarados really is not a problem for the team. Rotom can threaten it with both Thunderbolt and Wil-o-Wisp and can take the +1 Waterfall (you were assuming my Rotom was always hurt...it doesn't even come in until a steel type, Gyarados, or Lead Machamp are present). Jirachi is also a secondary "check" on Gyarados if the need arises. Due to it's bulk, Jirachi can take the +1 Earthquake (or Waterfall) and KO with Thunderbolt.

I explained above about the Salamence issue. I really would rather not change my entire team base over something that will be banned shortly. I will probably just play on suspect from here on out until it is banned.


____

I'm going to try Discharge on Rotom-h. Since I am sometimes behind a Sub on the switch, having a 30% chance to Paralize certain things could prove to be very useful (notably Heatran) and is worth the 10 base drop because it still KO's Gyarados and other specific threats. Also, the parahax could be proven useful against more offensive teams where Breloom won't really be able to Spore anyway - while slower teams are open to Breloom as it is. So I believe the move change is definately worth a try.


Matt