All Gens Past Gens Research Thread

Marty

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yes hello. with the help of SuperEpicAmpharos and zeefable i am here to report a new finding in adv doubles mechanics.

there is a bug in which, when both of your pokemon are holding quick claw, the claw proc will affect both of the mons.
Nice find! Seems like the random number they use to check against the Quick Claw activation chance is actually just shared between every Pokemon holding Quick Claw at any given time.

See https://github.com/pret/pokeemerald...5caf709de426bf5/src/battle_main.c#L4517-L4670
and more specifically the top and bottom lines here: https://github.com/pret/pokeemerald...5caf709de426bf5/src/battle_main.c#L4575-L4609

This random number is only re-rolled when a battle starts, right before the first turn, and at the end of each turn. So whenever they are checking Speed interactions between any two active Pokemon, this number is the same for all of them. Notably, Quick Claw sets your Speed to the max value, which also means anything holding Quick Claw Speed ties everything else holding Quick Claw when it activates, for more RNG fun. This is some questionable design choice.
Edit: It's actually been on poccil's site for at least 12 years so not that new! :psynervous:

Quick Claw has this same behaviour in Gen 2 as well. Only in Gen 4 is it finally an independent chance for each activation, and they make a point to compare Speeds if two or more Pokemon activated either it or Custap Berry.
 
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hello and welcome to my post. SuperEpicAmpharos asked me to test a gen 3 mechanic. currently on showdown, if you kill a mon that has used destiny bond last turn with pursuit as it switches out, destiny bond does not proc. here is a replay of how showdown currently processes it: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-1351410899

after testing this on cart, this does not seem to be the case.


i tested this mechanic with a mon that would either underspeed or outspeed the pursuiter. on cart, it seems that destiny bond will still activate on the mon using pursuit even if we switch out. im going to also test this in dpp, in the future..
 
I decided to test the Pursuit + Destiny Bond interaction on cartridge and on PS in GSC. Here's what happens when the Destiny Bond Pokemon is faster than the opponent, and here's what happens when the Destiny Bond Pokemon is slower than the opponent.
Warning, these are quite loud, be careful with your sound.
Basically, if the Destiny Bond user is slower than the Pokemon using Pursuit, the Pokemon using Pursuit will faint. However, if the Destiny Bond user is faster than the Pokemon using Pursuit, the Pokemon using Pursuit will NOT faint. However, on PS, the Pokemon using Pursuit will not faint under either circumstance.
 
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Going to double post here. I decided to test this in DPP/HGSS as well, and here were my findings. I tested this in Platinum on an emulator, although I had somebody test it in HGSS on the side, which they confirmed to work identically. If you want to check if it works differently in link battles, perhaps that's worth a shot.

So, much like in ADV, in DPP, if a Pokemon uses Destiny Bond, switches out and dies to Pursuit, no matter the speed of the Destiny Bond user, the Pokemon using Pursuit will faint.

This does not line up with the mechanics on PS currently, which is that the Pursuit user will not faint no matter what.
 
hello xzern fans. i know you have all been waiting for the next big discovery in adv doubles mechanics. the wait is finally over.

redirection is a vital facet of doubles. in gen 3, only a select few are able to learn the coveted move, follow me. the situation we are investigating today is what happens when a redirector faints to the first attack it receives. in modern games, this is handled by having its partner tank the second attack, since that partner becomes the only mon on the field. this is also how showdown currently processes this situation. but in adv... the replacement for a fainted mon is sent out before the turn actually ends. so whats the truth??


as you can see in our modified pokemon emerald; even after togetic faints, it posthumously redirects the oncoming second attack, brutally martyring calvin's zigzagoon in the process. therefore, we can make the conclusion that in adv doubles, follow me will affect the entire slot that it is used on for the entire turn, as long as the battle is still a 2v2. i rest my case.
 
hey, recently noticed a change in the end-of-turn mechanics in ADV on pokemon showdown.
oldtoxmech.PNG
newtoxmech.PNG
and couldn't find any discussion on this in my 2 minutes of searching, just wanted to know if this has been tested because how it worked before makes more intuitive sense to me. It seems pretty rare that this would be impactful to an actual game.
vapicunoToday at 7:29 PM
ok, it could actually affect something concretely



[7:30 PM]
for example, if two mons are both seeded and tox'd



[7:30 PM]
faster mon needs seed and tox to die but slower mon only needs seed to die(edited)



SiglutToday at 7:30 PM
yeah it totally could



@UD
it is as good as any other loom set
JesterToday at 7:30 PM
why do you throw so much shade at zoomer mons
:GrumpyTooty:




SiglutToday at 7:30 PM
I think that must have been changed or something



UDToday at 7:30 PM
:WaryTooty:




SiglutToday at 7:30 PM
because I swear it didn't use to work like that



UDToday at 7:30 PM
Subpunch was the old standard!



vapicunoToday at 7:30 PM
if the faster mon gets all effects applied first it dies first
 

Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcher
Research Leader
hey, recently noticed a change in the end-of-turn mechanics in ADV on pokemon showdown.
Good eye! This was changed almost two months ago when DaWoblefet updated end of turn effects for Gens 5-8. I spent a few days checking Gens 2-4 and updated them at the same time so there wouldn't be any regressions: https://git.io/Jc6bM
and couldn't find any discussion on this in my 2 minutes of searching, just wanted to know if this has been tested because how it worked before makes more intuitive sense to me. It seems pretty rare that this would be impactful to an actual game.
You're right that it's intuitive since almost every effect in the game for the last 10 years has been done for the faster Pokemon first then the slower one immediately after, before moving on to the next effect in the list. A commonly seen exception is Grassy Terrain and Leftovers both happening for a faster Pokemon before a slower one. In Gens 3 and 4 exceptions like that were actually the majority of end of turn effects, though.

(Each effect in these lists is done from fastest Pokemon to slowest, except for the lists in the hide tags.)

Gen 3

REFLECT
LIGHTSCREEN
MIST
SAFEGUARD
WISH
RAIN
SANDSTORM
SUN
HAIL
INGRAIN
RAINDISH/SHEDSKIN/SPEEDBOOST/TRUANT
half HP items, Leppa, White Herb, Leftovers, confusion Berries, pinch Berries, status Berries, Mental Herb
LEECHSEED
POISON
TOXIC
BURN
NIGHTMARE
CURSE
BINDING
UPROAR
THRASH
DISABLE
ENCORE
LOCKON
CHARGE
TAUNT
YAWN
White Herb, status Berries, Mental Herb
FUTURESIGHT
PERISHSONG


Gen 4

REFLECT
LIGHTSCREEN
MIST
SAFEGUARD
TAILWIND
LUCKYCHANT
WISH
RAINDANCE/DRYSKIN/RAINDISH/HYDRATION
SANDSTORM
SUNNYDAY
HAIL/ICEBODY
FOG
GRAVITY
INGRAIN
AQUARING
SPEEDBOOST/SHEDSKIN/TRUANT
LEFTOVERS/BLACKSLUDGE
LEECHSEED
POISON
TOXIC
BURN
NIGHTMARE
CURSE
BINDING
BADDREAMS
UPROAR
THRASH
DISABLE
ENCORE
LOCKON
CHARGE
TAUNT
MAGNETRISE
HEALBLOCK
EMBARGO
YAWN
TOXICORB/FLAMEORB/STICKYBARB
FUTURESIGHT
PERISHSONG
TRICKROOM


I also implemented everything else mentioned on this current page of the thread at some point. Thanks for all the reports and testing!

Gen 2-3 Quick Claw stuff
Gen 4 Healing Wish thing
Gen 2-4 Destiny Bond and Pursuit shenanigans
Gen 3 Follow Me persistence
 

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