Gen 1 Pinsir (NU Partial Rewrite) [QC 1/1] [GP 1/1]

[Plague von Karma]

On-site analysis is a bit bare and has started to show its age. Pinsir is a pretty viable Pokemon all things considered, possibly a B- Pokemon, so I thought I'd upgrade this to full now with NU QC's approval. Analysis is mostly the same until the second paragraph of set details.

--

[OVERVIEW]

Pinsir is a frightening Swords Dance sweeper in RBY NU, possessing one of the highest power levels in the tier in the tier alongside Bind and Slash. Once set up, Pinsir goes on a rampage, quickly chipping down Pokemon with Bind before letting loose one of the strongest Hyper Beams in the game. Pokemon like Mr. Mime, Dragonair, Venomoth, Exeggcute, and Poliwhirl are even threatened with outright OHKOs at +2, while Blastoise and Clefable need minimal Bind chip damage to OHKO as well. Pinsir is by no means slow either, tying Nidoking and Seadra and getting the jump on Blastoise and Kabutops. When forming a core with wrappers such as Rapidash, Moltres, and Charizard, Pinsir can add some much-needed physical attacking prowess. With paralysis support from the likes of Mr. Mime, Venomoth, and Porygon, Pinsir can also sweep past otherwise faster checks like Charizard and Moltres.

However, Pinsir's movepool is extremely shallow, making it linear and open to very simple counterplay, such as switching in Golem or even just having Counter. With the high viability of Fire-types in RBY NU, Pinsir's low Special also comes back to haunt it, leaving it OHKOed by even Charizard's Fire Blast and limiting setup opportunities against special attackers like Seadra. This special frailty means Pinsir is best used on teams populated by Water-types such as Blastoise and Kabutops, the latter with which actually competes heavily with it. That competition further extends to Kingler, which possesses similar qualities to Pinsir while having reliable counterplay to Rock-types in Crabhammer, as well as other Pokemon like Sandslash. However, it fares well alongside these Swords Dance users, and Bind can be enough for it to distinguish itself over themmWorse still, Pinsir's Speed, while good, is still not quite desirable; Fire-types revenge kill it, as do Venomoth, Fearow, and tier-king Mr. Mime. Its suboptimal Speed also makes paralysis even worse, exposing its fragility and making it very difficult to clean up even paralyzed teams. Regardless, Pinsir functions as an effective wallbreaker or sweeper, supporting top-tier Pokemon like Charizard very well in the metagame.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance + Bind
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Hyper Beam
move 3: Slash / Body Slam / Submission
move 4: Bind

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance is Pinsir's claim to fame, allowing it to rapidly chip down teams with Bind before blasting them away with Hyper Beam. Swords Dance also ensures paralysis doesn't immediately ruin Pinsir, allowing it to reapply a foe's paralysis Speed drop and keep the momentum in its favor. For example, against a paralyzed Mr. Mime—a common sight after Mr. Mime have a mirror match—Pinsir can enter and set up, remaining faster despite Thunder Wave, and OHKO Mr. Mime with Hyper Beam the next turn. Pinsir's third moveslot is flexible; Slash provides immediate power for safer revenge killing than Hyper Beam, while the weaker Body Slam makes Pinsir more self-sufficient, spreading paralysis and being boosted by Swords Dance. Body Slam also strongly deters Fire Spin users such as Ninetales and Charizard, which otherwise switch in on Pinsir easily. Finally, Submission OHKOes Porygon and 2HKOes Kabutops and Golem at +2, which Pinsir otherwise struggles to break through, although the steep drop in consistency is a pain for it to deal with.

Pinsir functions best late-game when it's not at risk of being paralyzed during its sweep. It's also strongly recommended to paralyze Fire-types like Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres with teammates like Mr. Mime and Clefable; otherwise, Pinsir is easily revenge killed. Kabutops checks Charizard and can KO it outright while quadruply resisting Fire Spin, and it forms a strong physical attacking core with Pinsir that has decent defensive integrity. If not running Submission, Golem and Kabutops should also be removed, with Water-types like Blastoise being great against the former, as Pinsir has issues breaking through them. Pinsir can find switch-in opportunities against Rest users like Blastoise with Rest giving free turns for Pinsir to set up. Outside of this, Pinsir is a great switch-in to Earthquake from the likes of Pokemon like Nidoking; in this case, it can Speed tie Nidoking and either deal serious damage with Slash or gain momentum with Bind. Pinsir works well with fellow wrappers such as Charizard, sometimes alongside other Fire-types like Ninetales, as Pinsir can threaten Golem with Submission while having a wrapping move itself and a Ground resistance for pivoting.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Pinsir can drop Bind for more offensive flexibility, but this makes it more of a momentum sink, forcing Pinsir to manually switch out against slower Pokemon if threatened with paralysis or heavy damage. Ergo, many teams have to use a deliberate game plan centered around strictly late-game usage for these sets to work. However, sets like Swords Dance / Hyper Beam / Body Slam / Submission provide Pinsir with alternative midground options once successfully switched in, more effectively contesting common switch-ins like Golem and Charizard.

In terms of niche move choices, Pinsir has few that are justifiable because of its terrible movepool. Toxic is feasible for incapacitating Fire Spin users as they switch in, such as Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres, but Body Slam is normally enough of a deterrent. However, it does come with the added bonus of piling chip damage on Rock-types when used alongside Bind. Seismic Toss is all Pinsir can muster for the very rare Gastly, but Bind can at least secure a safe pivot, and Seismic Toss is rarely helpful.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: All Fire-types in RBY NU, with the exception of Flareon, outspeed and mortally threaten Pinsir with Fire Blast and Fire Spin, namely Charizard, Ninetales, Rapidash, Arcanine, Moltres, and the rare Magmar. Even if Pinsir survives a Fire Blast from Rapidash or Magmar, it is still at risk of being burned and instantly fainting. However, if the Fire-types are paralyzed, Pinsir poses a serious threat, as a +2 Hyper Beam will KO any of them if they have taken minor damage prior.

**Rock-types**: If Pinsir lacks Submission, it can hardly scratch Rock-types like Golem and Kabutops, immediately losing momentum and having to pivot with Bind. If it does have Submission, however, Pinsir is capable of dealing massive damage, 2HKOing them at +2.

**Paralysis**: Pinsir needs foe paralysis to outspeed the faster threats of RBY NU and therefore despises taking it itself; ergo, faster paralysis users such as tier-king Mr. MIme, Venomoth, Electrode, and the rare Abra can force Pinsir out after it gets a KO. Clefable, Wigglytuff, and Porygon are also capable of absorbing hits from an unboosted Pinsir and paralyzing it in return. Body Slam is also common on a myriad of Pokemon, most commonly Clefable, Wigglytuff, Kingler, and some Blastoise variants, which can pose further risk. While Pinsir can threaten Clefable and Wigglytuff with Submission, it will take high recoil damage in the process, with the latter costing around a third of its health at +2. While Swords Dance can reapply the paralysis Speed drop on foes to help if Pinsir has been paralyzed, this is unreliable and leaves it open to attack.

**Counter Users**: Pinsir is the sole fully-evolved Pokemon that has no damaging moves that can circumvent Counter. This means that Pokemon such as Charizard, Blastoise, Poliwhirl, Clefable, and Wigglytuff can all pose a mortal risk to Pinsir by existing. This also makes Hyper Beam use somewhat risky, as a Counter user can switch in, stomach the hit, and hit Pinsir with Counter next turn for the KO. Pinsir can use Bind to bring Counter users down to Hyper Beam range and KO them, but this isn't always mathematically probable. Using Swords Dance to bait out an early Counter and KO the following turn is also possible, but very risky, especially against paralysis users Clefable and Wigglytuff. Consequently, Pinsir teams must scout for Counter early into a game.

**Gastly**: While rare, Gastly completely walls Pinsir. To even damage it, Pinsir requires Seismic Toss, which it cannot afford, and the only other attack that has any effect is Bind, which doesn't damage it but allows Pinsir to pivot into a check safely. In turn, Gastly can use Hypnosis uncontested or 4HKO Pinsir with Thunderbolt.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353]]
- Quality checked by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074], [pac, 520967], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

Cinnebts

On-site analysis is a bit bare and has started to show its age. Pinsir is a pretty viable Pokemon all things considered, possibly a B- Pokemon, so I thought I'd upgrade this to full now with NU QC's approval. Analysis is mostly the same until the second paragraph of set details.

--

[OVERVIEW]

Pinsir is a frightening Swords Dance sweeper in RBY NU, possessing some of the highest damage output in the tier alongside access to Bind and Slash. Once set up, Pinsir goes on a rampage, quickly chipping down Pokemon with Bind before letting loose one of the strongest Hyper Beams in the game. Pokemon like Mr. Mime and Dragonair are even threatened with outright OHKOs at +2 Comment 1, while Blastoise and Clefable need meager Bind chip damage to OHKO as well. Pinsir is by no means slow either, tieing speed tying Nidoking and Seadra and getting the jump on Clefable Blastoise and Kabutops Comment 2. When forming a core with wrappers such as Rapidash, Moltres, or Charizard, Pinsir can add some much-needed physical attacking prowess. With paralysis support from Mr. Mime, Venomoth, or Porygon, Pinsir also has a chance to sweep past otherwise faster checks like Charizard and Moltres.

1. Probably best mention stuff something more common than Dragonair here too, Venomoth is also a OHKO Poliwhirl all except 3/32 rolls, roll to OHKO Porygon and Exeggcute too.

2. Clef is way slower, next major speed tier is like blastoise/kabutops which pinsir can break through


However, Pinsir's movepool is extremely shallow, making it linear, predictable, and open to very simple counterplay, such as switching in Golem or even just having Counter. With the high viability of Fire-types in RBY NU, Pinsir's low Special also comes back to haunt it, leaving it OHKOed by even Charizard's Fire Blast and limiting setup opportunities against special attackers like Seadra Comment 3. This means Pinsir is best used on teams populated by Water-types such as Blastoise and Kabutops, the latter of which actually competes with it heavily. This competition further extends to Pokemon like Kingler, which possesses similar qualities while having reliable counterplay to Rock-types in Crabhammer. Worse still, Pinsir's Speed, while good, is still not quite enough; Fire-types revenge kill it, as do Venomoth, Fearow, and tier-king Mr. Mime. Its imperfect Speed also makes paralysis even worse, exposing its fragility and making it very difficult to clean up even paralyzed teams.

3. Really sadtimes that any fire attack has a decent chance of KOing Pinsir even Golems Fire Blast 2HKOs (not that rock slide doesnt already 2HKO but ye). Also good to mention that pinsirs predictability can gives it predictable checks and it can be used as a breaker rather as a primary sweeper to get pokemon in range of SD charizard if you are just going Golem for example.

[SET]
name: Bind Pivot
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Hyper Beam
move 3: Slash / Body Slam / Submission
move 4: Bind

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance is Pinsir's claim to fame, allowing it to rapidly chip down teams with Bind before blasting them away with Hyper Beam. Swords Dance also ensures Pinsir isn't immediately ruined by paralysis, allowing it to reapply a foes's paralysis Speed drop and keep the momentum in its favor. For example, against a paralyzed Mr. Mime(add comma)—a common sight after they have a mirror match—(add comma) Pinsir can enter and set up, remaining faster despite Thunder Wave and capable of OHKOing Mr. Mime with Hyper Beam the next turn Comment 4. Pinsir's third moveslot is flexible; Slash provides immediate power suited for safely revenge killing compared to Hyper Beam, while the weaker Body Slam makes Pinsir more self-sufficient, spreading paralysis and being boosted by Swords Dance. This also strongly deters Fire Spin users such as Ninetales and Charizard from switching in, which otherwise switch in on Pinsir much more easily. Finally, Submission is a viable option for dealing with Golem, dealing 62.2% minimum at +2, albeit at the cost of recoil and a steep drop in consistency Comment 5.

4. This sentence I wonder whether it is needed or if there is an assumption of an understanding of general RBY mechanics.

5. Submission here I think is better than you give it credit for, it is also good vs. Kabutops whilst you guarantee the OHKO on Porygon and okayish for mindgames on hyper beam. Obviously a terrible move in general tho I hate this move. I'd generally use it if I was dropping Bind, I think Bindless is a decent option on Pinsir in general since Bind misses and therefore using it as a pivot vs. Pokemon is a risk when you are potentially taking a Golem RS, Kabutops Surf or a fire move. Tho it is main selling point, secondary selling point is it doesnt quite fall as much over to mime revenge killing as SD Kabutops/Kingler do (Charizard is still a huge issue mind you) since Psychic doesnt 2HKO.

Pinsir functions best late-game when it's not at risk of being paralyzed during its sweep. It's also strongly recommended to try and paralyze Fire-types like Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres with teammates like Mr. Mime; otherwise, Pinsir is easily revenge killed. Pinsir normally finds switch-in opportunities against Rest users like Blastoise, which become passive and thus allow free turns for Pinsir to set up. Outside of this, Pinsir is a great switch-in to Earthquake from the likes of Pokemon like Nidoking; in this case, Pinsir can Speed tie it and try to gain momentum with Bind. Pinsir functions best with fellow wrappers such as Charizard, particularly alongside other Fire-types like Ninetales; here, it can support them with its Ground resistance while a forming trapping core. Pinsir appreciates Water-types that can check Golem if it lacks Submission, such as Blastoise, as it otherwise struggles mightily against it. Kabutops is also a fair partner for checking non-Earthquake Charizard while quadruple resisting Fire Spin, forming a strong physical attacking core with decent defensive integrity.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Pinsir can drop Bind to use a more flexible offensive moveset, but this makes it more of a momentum sink, forcing Pinsir to manually switch out; ergo, many teams struggle to make up for it. Sets that drop Bind, such as Swords Dance / Hyper Beam / Body Slam / Submission, provide Pinsir with alternative midground options once successfully switched in, more effectively contesting common switch-ins like Golem and Charizard.

In terms of niche move choices, Pinsir has few that are justifiable because of its terrible movepool. Toxic is feasible for incapacitating Fire Spin users as they switch in, such as Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres, but Body Slam is normally enough of a deterrent. However, it does come with the added bonus of piling on chip damage against Rock-types when used alongside Bind. Seismic Toss is all Pinsir can muster for the very rare Gastly, which it otherwise cannot hit outside of Bind, but this often hurts Pinsir more than it helps it.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: All Fire-types in RBY NU outspeed and mortally threaten Pinsir with Fire Blast and Fire Spin, namely Charizard, Ninetales, Rapidash, Arcanine, Moltres, and the rare Magmar. Even if Pinsir survives a Fire Blast from Rapidash or Magmar, it is still at risk of being burned and KOed from there. However, if the Fire-types are paralyzed, Pinsir poses a serious threat, as a +2 Hyper Beam will KO any of them if they have taken minor damage prior.

**Rock-types**: If Pinsir lacks Submission, it can hardly scratch Rock-types like Golem and Kabutops, immediately losing momentum and forcing it to pivot with Bind. If it does have Submission, however, Pinsir is capable of dealing massive damage, 2HKOing them.

**Paralysis**: Pinsir appreciates paralysis to help get the jump on the faster threats of RBY NU, and therefore despises taking it itself; this makes KOing a Pokemon with Pinsir sometimes result in it being forced out afterwards. While Swords Dance can reapply the paralysis Speed drop on foes to help if it has been paralyzed, this is unreliable and leaves it open to attack. Pokemon such as tier-king Mr. Mime, Electrode, Venomoth, and the rare Abra can outspeed and threaten Pinsir with Thunder Wave or Stun Spore, and are thus dangers to its sweep, forcing it out. Porygon is also capable of absorbing hits from an unboosted Pinsir and paralyzing it in return. Body Slam is also a common move in the tier, being used by a myriad of Pokemon, most commonly Clefable, Kingler, and some Blastoise variants, which can pose further risk if not accounted for.

**Counter users**: Pinsir has the unique distinction of having no damaging moves that can play around Counter, only having Normal- and Fighting-type attacks. Thus, Pokemon such as Charizard, Blastoise, Poliwhirl, and the uncommon Wigglytuff can all pose a risk to Pinsir by existing, lest it gets KOed. This also makes Hyper Beam use somewhat risky, as a Counter user can switch in, stomach the hit, and Counter Pinsir next turn for the KO. Consequently, scouting for this option early into a game is necessary for Pinsir to succeed.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353]]
- Quality checked by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074], [pac, 520967], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [name, id]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

Cinnebts

Implemented the stuff here after a brief Discord discussion

 

[Volk]

So... I'm still on this QC Team.

Pokemon like Mr. Mime and Dragonair are even threatened with outright OHKOs at +2, while Blastoise and Clefable need meager Bind chip damage to OHKO as well.

We're going to start this check off right with what might be my biggest nitpick ever. I would say the word "meager" is misused here. Meager usually means "lacking in quantity" rather than "in a small quantity." There is a minute nuance here: meager usually implies "inadequate" or "insufficient" rather than "a little." It's hard to explain but I think you'll get what I mean.

When forming a core with wrappers such as Rapidash, Moltres, or Charizard, Pinsir can add some much-needed physical attacking prowess.

Aside from my aversion to the term wrappers, I don't really know how helpful this statement is. Fire Spam teams and cores formed from multiple partial-trappers are not really a part of the meta right now, so I think this sentence could mislead readers. Not to mention all three of those Pokemon are actually pretty decent physical attackers.

This means Pinsir is best used on teams populated by Water-types such as Blastoise and Kabutops, the latter of which actually competes with it heavily.

"...the latter with which it actually competes heavily."

That competition further extends to Pokemon like Kingler, which possesses similar qualities while having reliable counterplay to Rock-types in Crabhammer.

The way this sentence is written implies that other Pokemon besides Kingler have Crabhammer as counterplay to Rock-types.

Worse still, Pinsir's Speed, while good, is still not quite enough; Fire-types revenge kill it, as do Venomoth, Fearow, and tier-king Mr. Mime.

Mr. Mime's crown is still disputed in my book.

name: Bind Pivot

Not going to call this name wrong, but I'm surprised you didn't go with something involving Swords Dance.

This also strongly deters Fire Spin users such as Ninetales and Charizard from switching in, which otherwise switch in on Pinsir much more easily.

Remove "much more." It is redundant with "otherwise."

It's also strongly recommended to try and paralyze Fire-types like Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres with teammates like Mr. Mime; otherwise, Pinsir is easily revenge killed.

Golem is another Pokemon you probably want to weaken / KO / confirm its absence before Pinsir enters the battle, especially if it lacks Submission. Kabutops may also be troublesome.

Pinsir normally finds switch-in opportunities against Rest users like Blastoise, which become passive and thus allow free turns for Pinsir to set up.

Apparently Rest users are out of fashion in NU right now so it might be better to say Pinsir can exploit Rest, rather than saying it normally will.

Outside of this, Pinsir is a great switch-in to Earthquake from the likes of Pokemon like Nidoking; in this case, Pinsir can Speed tie it and try to gain momentum with Bind.

Is this really the best thing to do here? Like you manage to predict an Earthquake and get Pinsir in only switch out again? Not to mention 50% of the time you're eating at least one additional hit on the way out and 25% of the time you get a chance to eat another. I think if your goal is to get Pinsir in against Nidoking, you either can probably KO it with Slash/Hyper Beam or just really need some significant chip on it right away (for example, Slash into Nidoking Earthquake is a KO on an opposing Nidoking).

Pinsir functions best with fellow wrappers such as Charizard, particularly alongside other Fire-types like Ninetales; here, it can support them with its Ground resistance while a forming trapping core.

This is a bit iffy because these kinds of teams are really not common anymore. Plus, you get a pretty awful weakness to Golem and Kabutops with a build like this. Not sure if this statement is accurate in the modern meta.

Kabutops is also a fair partner for checking non-Earthquake Charizard while quadruple resisting Fire Spin, forming a strong physical attacking core with decent defensive integrity.

This is not a set. I don't think I have ever seen Charizard not run Earthquake in NU.

Pinsir can drop Bind to use a more flexible offensive moveset, but this makes it more of a momentum sink, forcing Pinsir to manually switch out; ergo, many teams struggle to make up for it.

I don't know to what the final "it" in this sentence is referring. Pinsir? The loss of momentum? The offensive moveset?

Checks and Counters

You can probably justify giving Gastly a short entry somewhere in here, given it is currently in C Rank and is a very hard counter to Pinsir. Compare it to how the Venusaur and Tangela analyses in UU casually mention Moltres.

All Fire-types in RBY NU outspeed and mortally threaten Pinsir with Fire Blast and Fire Spin, namely Charizard, Ninetales, Rapidash, Arcanine, Moltres, and the rare Magmar.

Drop an F in the chat for our boy Flareon. Couldn't even make the exhaustive list. (You don't have to add Flareon, it is just funny and sad.)

If it does have Submission, however, Pinsir is capable of dealing massive damage, 2HKOing them.

I'm assuming you mean after a Swords Dance. Without it, Pinsir only 3HKOes (and it's a roll against Golem).

Pokemon such as tier-king Mr. Mime, Electrode, Venomoth, and the rare Abra can outspeed and threaten Pinsir with Thunder Wave or Stun Spore, and are thus dangers to its sweep, forcing it out.

Venomoth before Electrode.

Body Slam is also a common move in the tier, being used by a myriad of Pokemon, most commonly Clefable, Kingler, and some Blastoise variants, which can pose further risk if not accounted for.

Clefable also just has Thunder Wave. As does Wigglytuff. Also, fun fact, +2 Submission against Wigglytuff will cost Pinsir over a third of its health.

Call it there for now. Implement, tag, review, repeat. Cheers!

 

[Plague von Karma]

So... I'm still on this QC Team.

Implemented a majority of this, just a few gripes.

Mr. Mime's crown is still disputed in my book.

Everything statistically states it is, it's completely undroppable, and thus I will treat it as such.

Fire Spam teams and cores formed from multiple partial-trappers are not really a part of the meta right now, so I think this sentence could mislead readers. Not to mention all three of those Pokemon are actually pretty decent physical attackers.

I have seen it around recently, but not much, I agree. I do see it as viable, though, and its reduced popularity is fairly recent. I think that the general "Fire Spin bad" notion is just...very kneejerky for something that was treated with ire and even called banworthy literally last month. It's of divisive opinion, but certainly exists and should not be dismissed out of hand. I've modified the statement to be a bit more open-ended, though, I do think it was a bit too positive.

This is not a set. I don't think I have ever seen Charizard not run Earthquake in NU.

And I have, I've even used it myself! Some lead sets can definitely afford to drop it, but it is extremely rare and I do agree that it shouldn't have been framed the way it was. I think we can agree Charizard is at least soft-checked by Kabutops, so I just cut "non-Earthquake" out.

Drop an F in the chat for our boy Flareon. Couldn't even make the exhaustive list. (You don't have to add Flareon, it is just funny and sad.)

I plugged it in as an exception for accuracy. I think like...4 people have tried to make it work, I guess? lol

Apparently Rest users are out of fashion in NU right now so it might be better to say Pinsir can exploit Rest, rather than saying it normally will.

Hardly, Rest is still one of the most popular 4th moves on Blastoise and I know for a fact Arcanine still runs it, though in the latter's case I guess it's like being the king of the nursery with its current usage. I've amended the statement to be a touch more reflective, but I will define Blastoise as a Rest "user" on account of it being a popular move choice.

 

[Volk]

Okay, let's close this out.

Pokemon like Mr. Mime and Dragonair are even threatened with outright OHKOs at +2, while Blastoise and Clefable need minimal Bind chip damage to OHKO as well. It is also possible, albeit not guaranteed, for Venomoth, Exeggcute, and Poliwhirl to be OHKOed.

Might as well lump these two sentences together. If nothing else, it'll make it clear that the OHKO can only occur when Pinsir is at +2.

Pinsir is by no means slow either, tieing Nidoking and Seadra and getting the jump on Blastoise and Kabutops.

Generally, it is spelled "tying," though I think technically both are correct.

With paralysis support from Mr. Mime, Venomoth, or Porygon, Pinsir also has a chance to sweep past otherwise faster checks like Charizard and Moltres.

Nitpick, but I'd say "from the likes of..." just to clarify that other options for paralysis do exist, like Exeggcute or Body Slam. Also, I figure Clefable can make the shortlist.

Its imperfect Speed also makes paralysis even worse, exposing its fragility and making it very difficult to clean up even paralyzed teams.

"Suboptimal" over "imperfect."

For example, against a paralyzed Mr. Mime—a common sight after they have a mirror match—Pinsir can enter and set up, remaining faster despite Thunder Wave and capable of OHKOing Mr. Mime with Hyper Beam the next turn.

This is more for my own curiosity than it is a correction, but what is the game plan after this? Like is the rest of the opponent's team knocked out or paralyzed? I definitely see the line described here being played from time to time, especially in endgames, but I think if a paralyzed Mr. Mime isn't in range of Hyper Beam, Pinsir is probably swapping or using Bind.

Pinsir functions best with fellow wrappers such as Charizard, sometimes alongside other Fire-types like Ninetales; here, it can support them with its Ground resistance while a forming trapping core, particularly if running Submission.

Reword this sentence. I'm not really sure how to correct it because I'm honestly very lost.

Pinsir appreciates Water-types that can check Golem if it lacks Submission, such as the common Blastoise, as it otherwise struggles mightily against it.

Probably don't need to mention Submission here as you acknowledged it earlier. Also, this sentence makes it sound like Golem has Submission.

Pinsir can drop Bind to use a more flexible offensive moveset, but this makes Pinsir more of a momentum sink, forcing Pinsir to manually switch out; ergo, many teams struggle to make up for it.

I'll still don't get what you're trying to say after the semicolon here.

Seismic Toss is all Pinsir can muster for the very rare Gastly, which it otherwise cannot hit outside of Bind, but this often hurts Pinsir more than it helps it.

I don't think you should even mention Bind here, as I don't know if that really counts as "hitting it."

All Fire-types in RBY NU, with the exception of Flareon, outspeed and mortally threaten Pinsir with Fire Blast and Fire Spin, namely Charizard, Ninetales, Rapidash, Arcanine, Moltres, and the rare Magmar.

This is funny because it also technically includes Ponyta.

While Pinsir can threaten Clefable and Wigglytuff with Submission, it will take high recoil damage in the process, with the latter costing around a third of its health.

My little 1/3 fact is only true at +2. Also, you didn't need to include this if you didn't want to, it was just a little fun fact I encountered while responding last time. Your choice.

Pinsir has the unique distinction of being the sole fully-evolved Pokemon that has no damaging moves that can play around Counter, only having Normal- and Fighting-type attacks. While Swords Dance and Bind are ways to work around it, it does also mean that Pokemon such as Charizard, Blastoise, Poliwhirl, and the uncommon Wigglytuff can all pose a risk to Pinsir by existing, lest it gets KOed.

This is a bit cumbersome because you say "no damaging moves that can play around Counter" and then immediately list moves that "are ways to work around it." I understand the distinction you are making, but I still think it can be a little confusing. Also, I think Wigglytuff is popular enough to drop the title "the uncommon."

Pretty much all of these points are either prose-related or very minor, so I'm comfortable with calling this done for now. That's a QC 1/1 from me... first one in a while actually. Cheers!

 

[Plague von Karma]

That's a QC 1/1 from me... first one in a while actually. Cheers!

Implemented and sending off to GP!

 

[Adeleine]

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[OVERVIEW]

Pinsir is a frightening Swords Dance sweeper in RBY NU, possessing some of the highest damage output one of the highest power levels in the tier (bc pairing its slash as an "alongside" to damage output rather than a part of it feels odd, if that makes sense) in the tier alongside access to Bind and Slash. Once set up, Pinsir goes on a rampage, quickly chipping down Pokemon with Bind before letting loose one of the strongest Hyper Beams in the game. Pokemon like Mr. Mime, Dragonair, Venomoth, Exeggcute, and Poliwhirl are even threatened with outright OHKOs at +2, while Blastoise and Clefable need minimal Bind chip damage to OHKO as well. Pinsir is by no means slow either, tieing tying Nidoking and Seadra and getting the jump on Blastoise and Kabutops. When forming a core with wrappers such as Rapidash, Moltres, or and Charizard, Pinsir can add some much-needed physical attacking prowess. With paralysis support from the likes of Mr. Mime, Venomoth, or and Porygon, Pinsir also has a chance to can also sweep past otherwise faster checks like Charizard and Moltres.

However, Pinsir's movepool is extremely shallow, making it linear, predictable, and open to very simple counterplay, such as switching in Golem or even just having Counter. With the high viability of Fire-types in RBY NU, Pinsir's low Special also comes back to haunt it, leaving it OHKOed by even Charizard's Fire Blast and limiting setup opportunities against special attackers like Seadra. This special frailty means Pinsir is best used on teams populated by Water-types such as Blastoise and Kabutops, the latter with which is actually competes heavily with it. That competition further extends to Kingler, which possesses similar qualities to Pinsir while having reliable counterplay to Rock-types in Crabhammer, as well as other Pokemon like Sandslash. Worse still, Pinsir's Speed, while good, is still not quite enough desirable; Fire-types revenge kill it, as do Venomoth, Fearow, and tier-king Mr. Mime. Its suboptimal Speed also makes paralysis even worse, exposing its fragility and making it very difficult to clean up even paralyzed teams. Regardless, Pinsir functions as an effective wallbreaker or sweeper, supporting top-tier Pokemon like Charizard very well in the metagame. (imo you should explicitly set out somewhere what pinsir has over cringe crab and kabutops, or mention you can do some pairing them together, or both. whatever works)

[SET]
name: Swords Dance + Bind
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Hyper Beam
move 3: Slash / Body Slam / Submission
move 4: Bind

[SET COMMENTS]

Swords Dance is Pinsir's claim to fame, allowing it to rapidly chip down teams with Bind before blasting them away with Hyper Beam. Swords Dance also ensures Pinsir isn't immediately ruined by paralysis, paralysis doesn't immediately ruin Pinsir, allowing it to reapply a foes's foe's paralysis Speed drop and keep the momentum in its favor. For example, against a paralyzed Mr. Mime—a common sight after they Mr. Mime have a mirror match—Pinsir can enter and set up, remaining faster despite Thunder Wave, (AC) and capable of OHKOing OHKO Mr. Mime with Hyper Beam the next turn. Pinsir's third moveslot is flexible; Slash provides immediate power suited for safely revenge killing compared to for safer revenge killing than Hyper Beam, while the weaker Body Slam makes Pinsir more self-sufficient, spreading paralysis and being boosted by Swords Dance. This Body Slam also strongly deters Fire Spin users such as Ninetales and Charizard from switching in, which otherwise switch in on Pinsir easily. Finally, Submission OHKOes Porygon and 2HKOes Kabutops and Golem at +2, which Pinsir otherwise struggles to break through, although the steep drop in consistency is a pain for it to deal with.

Pinsir functions best late-game when it's not at risk of being paralyzed during its sweep. It's also strongly recommended to try and paralyze Fire-types like Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres with teammates like Mr. Mime and Clefable; otherwise, Pinsir is easily revenge killed. Kabutops checks Charizard and can KO it outright while quadruply resisting Fire Spin, and it forms a strong physical attacking core with Pinsir that has decent defensive integrity. (tinker if/as needed) If not running Submission, Golem and Kabutops should also be removed, with Water-types like Blastoise being great against the former, (tinker if/as needed) as Pinsir has issues breaking through them. Pinsir can find switch-in opportunities against Rest users like Blastoise, which become passive and thus allow with Rest giving free turns for Pinsir to set up. Outside of this, Pinsir is a great switch-in to Earthquake from the likes of Pokemon like Nidoking; in this case, it can Speed tie it Nidoking and either deal serious damage with Slash or gain momentum with Bind. Pinsir works well with fellow wrappers such as Charizard, sometimes alongside other Fire-types like Ninetales, as it threatens Pinsir can threaten Golem with Submission while having a wrapping move itself and a Ground resistance for pivoting. Pinsir appreciates Water-types that can check Golem if Pinsir lacks Submission, such as the common Blastoise, as it otherwise struggles mightily against it. Kabutops is also a fair partner for checking Charizard while quadruple resisting Fire Spin, forming a strong physical attacking core with decent defensive integrity.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Pinsir can drop Bind to use a more flexible offensive moveset, but this makes Pinsir for more offensive flexibility, but this makes it more of a momentum sink, forcing Pinsir to manually switch out against slower Pokemon if threatened with paralysis or heavy damage. Ergo, many teams have to use a deliberate game plan centered around strictly late-game usage for it these sets to work. Sets that drop Bind, such as However, sets like Swords Dance / Hyper Beam / Body Slam / Submission (RC) provide Pinsir with alternative midground options once successfully switched in, more effectively contesting common switch-ins like Golem and Charizard.

In terms of niche move choices, Pinsir has few that are justifiable because of its terrible movepool. Toxic is feasible for incapacitating Fire Spin users as they switch in, such as Charizard, Ninetales, and Moltres, but Body Slam is normally enough of a deterrent. However, it does come with the added bonus of piling on chip damage against chip damage on Rock-types when used alongside Bind. Seismic Toss is all Pinsir can muster for the very rare Gastly, which it otherwise cannot affect outside of Bind, but this often hurts Pinsir more than it helps it. but Bind can at least secure a safe pivot, and Seismic Toss is rarely helpful.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Fire-types**: All Fire-types in RBY NU, with the exception of Flareon, outspeed and mortally threaten Pinsir with Fire Blast and Fire Spin, namely Charizard, Ninetales, Rapidash, Arcanine, Moltres, and the rare Magmar. Even if Pinsir survives a Fire Blast from Rapidash or Magmar, it is still at risk of being burned and KOed from there. instantly fainting. (is this what you meant? if not, maybe like "easily dispatched from there.") However, if the Fire-types are paralyzed, Pinsir poses a serious threat, as a +2 Hyper Beam will KO any of them if they have taken minor damage prior.

**Rock-types**: If Pinsir lacks Submission, it can hardly scratch Rock-types like Golem and Kabutops, immediately losing momentum and forcing it having to pivot with Bind. If it does have Submission, however, Pinsir is capable of dealing massive damage, 2HKOing them at +2.

**Paralysis**: Pinsir appreciates paralysis to help get the jump on needs foe paralysis to outspeed the faster threats of RBY NU (RC) and therefore despises taking it itself; this makes KOing a Pokemon with Pinsir sometimes result in it being forced out afterwards. While Swords Dance can reapply the paralysis Speed drop on foes to help if it Pinsir has been paralyzed, this is unreliable and leaves it open to attack. Pokemon such as tier-king Mr. Mime, Venomoth, Clefable, Wigglytuff, Electrode, and the rare Abra can outspeed and threaten Pinsir with Thunder Wave or Stun Spore, and are thus dangers to its sweep, forcing it out. ergo, faster paralysis users such as tier-king Mr. MIme, Venomoth, Electrode, and the rare Abra can force Pinsir out after it gets a KO. Clefable, Wigglytuff, and Porygon is are (some changes here are because clefable and wigglytuff were listed as able to outspeed pinsir but are slower. just make sure things make sense when you're done here; i'm also down to talk about anything here) also capable of absorbing hits from an unboosted Pinsir and paralyzing it in return. Body Slam is also a common move in the tier, being used by common on a myriad of Pokemon, most commonly Clefable, Wigglytuff, Kingler, and some Blastoise variants, which can pose further risk if not accounted for. While Pinsir can threaten Clefable and Wigglytuff with Submission, it will take high recoil damage in the process, with the latter costing around a third of its health at +2. While Swords Dance can reapply the paralysis Speed drop on foes to help if Pinsir has been paralyzed, this is unreliable and leaves it open to attack.

**Counter Users**: Pinsir has the unique distinction of being is the sole fully-evolved Pokemon that has no damaging moves that can play around Counter, only having Normal- and Fighting-type attacks. circumvent Counter. This means that Pokemon such as Charizard, Blastoise, Poliwhirl, Clefable, and Wigglytuff can all pose a mortal (or other word) risk to Pinsir by existing, lest it gets KOed. This also makes Hyper Beam use somewhat risky, as a Counter user can switch in, stomach the hit, and Counter Pinsir hit Pinsir with Counter next turn for the KO. Pinsir can use Bind to bring Counter users down to Hyper Beam range and KO them, but this isn't always mathematically probable. Using Swords Dance to bait out an early Counter and KO the following turn is also possible, but very risky, especially against paralysis users (or ignore/replace if this isn't the reason you these two are especially risky) Clefable and Wigglytuff. Consequently, scouting for this option early into a game is necessary for Pinsir to succeed. Pinsir teams must scout for Counter early into a game.

**Gastly**: While rare, Gastly completely walls Pinsir, as it only learns Normal- and Fighting-type attacks. To even damage it, it Pinsir requires Seismic Toss, which it cannot afford, and the only other attack that has any effect is Bind, which doesn't damage it (RC) but allows Pinsir to pivot into a check safely. In turn, Gastly can use Hypnosis uncontested or 4HKO Pinsir with Thunderbolt.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353]]
- Quality checked by: [[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d, 231074], [pac, 520967], [Volk, 530877]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429], [name, id]]

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[Plague von Karma]

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Implemented, ready for upload Amaranth