Please mod the Sucker Punch glitch out of Smogon formats


Banned deucer.
A quick summary: There is a glitch in SS Double battles that can cause sucker punch to fail when it should succeed. As far as I am aware, this hasn't been implemented on PS yet, but Zarel has stated his intention to do so, which makes sense for the VGC ladder. But I strongly believe we should mod this out of all of our Smogon formats (notably DOU).

Simply put, we should mod this because it causes asymmetrical gameplay based on who is hosting the battle. There are a few instances of host-based mechanics that I am aware we left untouched, such as:
  • the order in which Tailwind expires
  • the order in which Gravity drops Pokemon
But in all of these other cases, it does not cause asymmetrical gameplay. Both the host and non-host are affected the same way (i.e. they can't use these interactions to determine speed order, and there's no other functional effect).

In the case of the sucker punch glitch, the host and non-host are not affected symmetrically. The only other mechanic of this nature that I know is ADV switch order, which we fixed with a mod. Admittedly that was a much more relevant example, but the principle is still the same. It's stupid for one player to get an advantage because they are the host of the match—unlike other luck-based 50/50s (such as speed ties), they have the ability to plan around this advantage turns in advance. Well, it's the same arguments as in the ADV thread honestly so I won't rehash them. Thanks for reading.


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Game Freak seems to have modded out the Sucker Punch / Quash glitch with host mechanics themselves in version 1.1 of Sword and Shield.

There still exists the host mechanics bug with Instruct + Stalwart / Propeller Tail / Snipe Shot, however. This glitch is much more niche, but it forces the Pokemon with the Ability or move to use its previously used attack on the host's first Pokemon, if it is out on the field. If the Pokemon attacking is the first Pokemon on the host's side, the move will fail; otherwise, you may end up attacking yourself or the wrong opponent slot.

I don't have any particular feelings on this as far as the modding host mechanics out goes. We implemented other glitches that Game Freak later removed (e.g. Wide Guard reducing the damage of Z-moves instead of just Clangorous Soulblaze), and I'd definitely want to see it in VGC formats, but I think right now the best response on our end is to just focus on getting the plethora of other mechanics right. Then we can work on implementing Game Freak's bugs before subsequently modding them out, if desired.

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