Metagame Pokébilities [OM of the Month]

1) Please, give me a case for keeping Ninetales-A. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebilities-860034270
Yeah, I agree that Ninetales-A is gimmicky, but that's about it, and I don't think it's banworthy. (Also in the replay you posted, all it did was avoid a Close Combat, and the team with the Ninetales-A lost anyway). Evasion boosting abilities aren't fun to play against but I think they are pretty manageable.

Can we ban Porygon-Z? If you let it get a free turn, you lose. There's no real counterplay. If you let your Koko or whatever KO a threat, there's a good chance it can't also deal with an omniboosted Ghost-type monstrosity. Clef is hardly an answer: you have to hope for low rolls, no SpDef drops, no crits, all while boosting with Cosmic Power and slowly tanking hits until your Stored Power can be a 2HKO. At which point your answer to the myriad other threats is sufficiently worn down to the point of uselessness; or, you have enough boosts to Charge Beam and Stored Power your way to victory. I got to the high 1200s (top 100 on this ladder) before the strategy of Aurora Veil+Snow Veil Ninetales (which is its own brand of shit) into P-Z was getting used against me, with equal effectiveness and equal brainlessness. I'm not good at battling, so I know that when I'm getting up in points, it's probably because something is fucky. P-Z is too easy and too centralizing and should be banned.
To start, I'm not completely against banning PZ, but the way you're presenting it makes it seem a lot better than it actually is imo. Cosmic Power Clefable is a bad set (like G-Luke already mentioned), so if you are using that as your check then you are doing something wrong. Physically defensive Clefable can take at least one Tri Attack from full and then T-Wave PZ, allowing you to Moonblast next turn and revenge KO after. This works against any Porygon Z set except Electric Z-Conversion, which loses to Clefable anyway.

For those wanting better checks to PZ, I'd recommend using Assault Vest Magearna, which is a very consistent check especially with Sand support. It also has the added benefit of checking Yanmega. Porygon-Z can also be checked offensively by Mach Punch Conkeldurr, as well as the abundance of faster offensive Pokemon in general (PZ is only base 90!).
 

Someone mentioned MegAltaria being a rain check? Didn't even need it here. (because lol Tri Attack froze the Drizzler)


In other news, Hail is still bad.
 
Last edited:
Hammerhead96 implies that neither mon works fine in-game under conditions where they should (with the statements "when I'm burned it says it has negative attack" and "won't get it's speed boost from unburnden"), although replays would be nice and absurd luck with Hustle is possible.
techincally, you were both right. I figured out that the raticate glitch was in fact just visual, I did start missing with Guts as the ability selected, however selecting hustle DOES reduce attack when burned. Also I know I should post replays, and I'm sorry for that, but I have been outsped by non-scarf tapu kokos after consuming an item.
 

MacChaeger

Go ahead, I’m bulletproof!
is a Programmeris a Battle Simulator Moderator
techincally, you were both right. I figured out that the raticate glitch was in fact just visual, I did start missing with Guts as the ability selected, however selecting hustle DOES reduce attack when burned. Also I know I should post replays, and I'm sorry for that, but I have been outsped by non-scarf tapu kokos after consuming an item.
There’s currently a bug with Hawlucha where if your item is a Seed and you switch into the corresponding terrain, your speed won’t double unless your ability in the teambuilder is Unburden. This is because the item is made active before the innate abilities are, but after the regular ability. At least, I think that’s it; I’ll look into the code tomorrow.

In the meantime, I’d like to announce that Pokébilities is suspecting Porygon-Z. Voting will begin 24 hours after this post was made, and will end 9 days after that. To qualify, get an alt with “PZ” in the name up to 1700 GLICKO (not ELO).

Our last suspect didn’t go so well, so I hope at least somebody votes this time.
 
BAN Porygon-Z
I think the current meta is really fun but still have some problems. A fact:build a defensive team is much harder than offense
team.I have to run both Marowak-A and chansey to do with p-z in one team and trick is still annoying.So I am willing to vote ban
p-z.
A funny set: can beat Conkeldurr and Azumarill.
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off/hp fire
159847
 
Last edited:
A funny set: can beat Conkeldurr and Azumarill.
Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Synthesis
- Knock Off/hp fire
This set actually fails to check max attack Conk, which is a mon I feel needs a lot of attention. I understand PZ is being suspect tested (and I do agree it is hard to check), and I was going to try for reqs myself, but Conk is just broken; it's almost an auto-lose for defensive teams.

Even if you have max defense on Mega Venusaur, Conk has a very high chance to 2HKO it (49.8% min), not to mention facade just dunks on it. Of course, this doesn't account for giga drain recovery, so maybe that could help with ice/fire punch.

Psychic types can't switch in comfortably because of knock off, scratching pokemon like Mew off the check list (pun intended). Even max physical defense Mega Sableye is 2HKOed (by elemental punches). Conk's great coverage with elemental punches (sheer force, iron fist, guts boosted) means you probably need a Pokemon with absurd defense (and/or intimidate) to check it. However, these Pokemon tend to be weak to Conk's coverage (Steelix, Avalugg, Buzzwole, Mega Slowbro).

Now, you might be thinking... "Conk can't have all of its coverage moves on one set". This is true, but you can't know what moves it has until it uses them. It could have any of these moves, meaning you'd have to have several Pokemon to check this one Pokemon.

Of course, it's no slouch against other archetypes as well, thanks to mach punch picking off frail sweepers. However, I feel that Conk's ability to single-handedly invalidate defensive playstyles is more than enough to at least suspect test it.
 
This set actually fails to check max attack Conk, which is a mon I feel needs a lot of attention. I understand PZ is being suspect tested (and I do agree it is hard to check), and I was going to try for reqs myself, but Conk is just broken; it's almost an auto-lose for defensive teams.

Even if you have max defense on Mega Venusaur, Conk has a very high chance to 2HKO it (49.8% min), not to mention facade just dunks on it. Of course, this doesn't account for giga drain recovery, so maybe that could help with ice/fire punch.

Psychic types can't switch in comfortably because of knock off, scratching pokemon like Mew off the check list (pun intended). Even max physical defense Mega Sableye is 2HKOed (by elemental punches). Conk's great coverage with elemental punches (sheer force, iron fist, guts boosted) means you probably need a Pokemon with absurd defense (and/or intimidate) to check it. However, these Pokemon tend to be weak to Conk's coverage (Steelix, Avalugg, Buzzwole, Mega Slowbro).

Now, you might be thinking... "Conk can't have all of its coverage moves on one set". This is true, but you can't know what moves it has until it uses them. It could have any of these moves, meaning you'd have to have several Pokemon to check this one Pokemon.

Of course, it's no slouch against other archetypes as well, thanks to mach punch picking off frail sweepers. However, I feel that Conk's ability to single-handedly invalidate defensive playstyles is more than enough to at least suspect test it.
some calculations:

136+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 202-238 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

136+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Icicle Plate Sheer Force Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 170-200 (46.8 - 55%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Fist Plate Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Venusaur-Mega: 51-61 (14 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Venusaur-Mega: 201-237 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

giga drain can restore about 25% hp of venus

So this mon could Check all kinds of conk and Counter conks without facade after mega.

in fact, giga drain-synthesis-giga drain is a good combo. u can still about 50% hp after knock down conk.
 
some calculations:

136+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 202-238 (48.7 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

136+ SpA Venusaur-Mega Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 168-198 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

+1 252+ Atk Icicle Plate Sheer Force Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 170-200 (46.8 - 55%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Fist Plate Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Venusaur-Mega: 51-61 (14 - 16.8%) -- possible 6HKO

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Venusaur-Mega: 201-237 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

giga drain can restore about 25% hp of venus

So this mon could Check all kinds of conk and Counter conks without facade after mega.

in fact, giga drain-synthesis-giga drain is a good combo. u can still about 50% hp after knock down conk.
My bad, I must have been calculating fir base Venusaur. Still, facade 2HKOs, and although you're right about Mega Venusaur being a check, my point about Conk remains. Mandating a specific Pokemon (a mega, at that) to defensively check a threat means that threat is overcentralizing (not to mention overpowered).
 
I've been having great success with Bruxish. Mach Punches are flying around like nobody's business in this meta, and Dazzling+Strong Jaw Bruxish is an amazing way to capitalize on that.

It is particularly useful as a check for three big, dangerous priority users--Azumarill, Breloom, and most importantly, Conkeldurr. Psychic Fangs OHKOs almost all Conkeldurr (the few that it fails to kill are put into the range for Flame Orb recoil), and takes out Breloom and weakened Azumarill (so you can take out Azu that Belly Drum on the switch).

It's best with Focus Sash to provide it with some insurance in case the opposition predicts the switch and uses a different attack, and when Bruxish does come in for free at full health, you then have two turns to slam something with Psychic Fangs. Focus Sash Psychic Fangs is also my emergency kill on Hawlucha.

I run it with Sticky Webs support alongside Porygon-Z and Ursaring. Webs make all three fast enough to wallop basically everything that isn't flying, scarfed, or boosted by weather, with PZ and Ursaring luring the Mach Punches for Bruxish to handle.

I've been using Swords Dance, Liquidation, and Crunch for coverage and sweeping potential.
 
161453

DO NOT BAN
ok controversial opinion but i've played like 50+ games of this meta now and lost to pz maybe twice. I haven't actually found PZ that hard to deal with due to the fact that it's really easy to chip with hazards and the plentiful priority in this meta, and is prone to revenge killing. Generally from what I've seen some form of speed control (e.g. trick room or choice scarf) in addition to one specially bulky normal resist (Vest Gearna and Vest TTar work especially well in this regard) with some form of entry hazard support, as well as priority support should be more than enough to deal with it. While this might seem quite restrictive on paper, these are things that almost every team should have anyway. I get that its an OM and its fun to screw around with new toys but I've literally been using an OU team i ripped from samples and its having almost no troubles with pz (i.e. it hasn't been purpose built to deal with it). Yes, it doesn't have many switchins, but this is arguably true to a greater extent with Mega Medicham and Mega Mawile, neither of which I see being put up for a ban. Ultimately it's low speed tier and poor bulk makes specs and scarf sets easy to revenge kill. As for zconversion sets, the limited chance to setup and restrictive movepool make it still difficult to deal with, but a far cry from impossible. So, while PZ is a very strong pokemon in the tier, and can pose some restriction on teambuilding, I wouldn't say it is restrictive to the point where it is worthy of a ban.
tl;dr PZ is very good but the ease with which it can be revenge killed and the myriad of checks within the tier that shouldn't be considered niche don't make it worth a ban in my opinion
e: this is very rambly will edit later to make it easier to read lmao
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 4, Guests: 3)

Top