Metagame Pokébilities

[Ivy]

Sending in a ban for the old ex-OU menaces . We're still pondering Magearna and potentially Pheromosa, but it's clear the initial unbans were a little too liberal.

Also, please don't hesitate to post any bug reports here, preferably with at least one replay and whether the ability that's behaving weirdly was in the teambuilder slot or not.

 

[drfrankenbaum]

here's some bitch ass hyper offense i vomited up in like 34 seconds it's not even that good
happy april fools everyone


Tapu Koko @ Light Clay
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
tapu koko sets up screens clicks u-turn to abuse pivot moves and has tbolt to actually deal damage should the time come. light clay is great to maximize extra setup turns.

I get the point of having a pokemons worst ability first in this OM, but dont you want the occasional reset on electric terrain from an opposing trace mon?

 

[OctoMystic]

Just gonna express my thoughts on

I feel this mon is about the bane of my existence in this OM. Every team that isnt HO or some weather teams has this and every team needs something that can kill it, which restricts building alot. It is also impossible to wear it down passively or kill it with setup allowing to to cosmic power or calm mind making it bulkier/more powerful.

I think this mon is a bit too unhealthy for this metagame because 90% of teams have it and it restricts building because you need to have checks and it is a bitch for ho. Which I havent lost to yet thanks to this pink blob.

I get the point of having a pokemons worst ability first in this OM, but dont you want the occasional reset on electric terrain from an opposing trace mon?

Trace copies a random ability iirc so itl make no difference

 

[Achelexus]

Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind

Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Protect

Dugtrio-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Weather Ball

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Pain Split
- Sludge Bomb
- Defog
- Strange Steam

I got to about rank 4 or so with this sand team, but it doesn't deal with some threats that well so.

 

[readytolose]

Good bans. Can't speak on Magearna as I haven't seen too much of it, and Pheromosa hasn't impressed me too much as it struggles with the Clefable and Toxapex that are on every team.

I'd also like to suggest potentially banning or suspecting Clefable. It's the most centralizing mon in the format currently and there's no reason not to run it on every team. It's the best CM user since no other CM users can set up alongside it thanks to Unaware. Variants with LO and some offense are among the best checks to the CM variants (again thanks to Unaware), and you can see how that leads to centralization. Setup sweepers that can't break through Clefable (things like SD Garchomp for instance) feel almost unviable due to how present Clefable is on every team. Although you see some people running bulky Fairy resists with a physical move to break CM Clefable, but there are some flaws in that too. If you're running something like uninvested Heavy Slam Heatran or Shell Side Arm Slowbro-Galar (both of these attacks do about half to phys def Clefable) and your Pokemon's genders happen to be congruent, you run a decent chance of proccing the Cute Charm and turning your chance of being able to break through into a series of coin flips. The fact that people are even running Heavy Slam Heatran is pretty telling about the kind of influence Clefable is having. Clefable is not completely unbeatable (although it sometimes beats things it really shouldn't) but it's completely centralizing and I'd argue it's unhealthy.

I also think we should keep an eye on Dracozolt and Conkeldurr. Dracozolt has few checks. The most prominent is probably Hippowdon, which is also one of its best partners. Hippowdon is a good mon, but besides that the options feel very scarce. It can hit other electric-immune mons like Landorus-T and Garchomp very hard with its secondary STAB, and bulky electric resists like Eldegoss or Ferrothorn, besides being weak to Fire coverage, take exorbitant amounts from LO or CB Bolt Beak anyways. Dracozolt necessitates sand support, but it can get even better with other forms of support. I've seen one player running allied Tapu Koko to power up Bolt Beak even further, one player using Gravity to remedy Dracozolt's accuracy (they were also using Drilbur lol). You could even use something like Trick + Ring Target to set up for a Dracozolt sweep in the late game. Even with Hustle, Dracozolt is very consistent, not to mention common... it seems like everyone is using Sand. If Hippowdon is one of the best checks to Dracozolt, and Dracozolt is also one of the best Electric-immune mons, might as well run your own Dracozolt and Hippowdon.

Conkeldurr I feel even less strongly about, but it really is stupidly powerful. It's not as reliant on prediction as in standard play, as it can easily just throw out a safe move like Ice Punch and still have a decent to good chance at 2HKOing "checks" like phys def Clefable and Reuniclus. Ice Punch into Thunder Punch also generally 2HKO's phys def Toxapex, so you need to try and dance around it even with phys def Toxapex. So the most common Fighting resists can't even switch in on it really. You would need to run very specialized Fighting-resists like Aegislash in order to switch in on it, and that still loses to tech like Knock Off or Earthquake. If you run offenses not weak to Mach Punch, Conkeldurr doesn't feel that bad, but it really is second to none at breaking defensive cores. Unless you are a prediction god Conkeldurr can wreck you pretty easily.

 

[shnowshner]

I get the point of having a pokemons worst ability first in this OM, but dont you want the occasional reset on electric terrain from an opposing trace mon?

It's my terrain setting ability they can't have it.

Also BIG thanks for the bans, I didn't even know Phero was allowed until after I posted. I do think its still problematic due to its insane Speed tier and offensive presence, but it's also not a fan of Clef's dominance. Poison Jab is a workaround but it can't 2HKO Leftovers sets without Band, and running Poison Jab is compromising your ability to deal with other threats (pex namely). Also nice having a viable spinner around.

 

[OctoMystic]

It's my terrain setting ability they can't have it.

Also BIG thanks for the bans, I didn't even know Phero was allowed until after I posted. I do think its still problematic due to its insane Speed tier and offensive presence, but it's also not a fan of Clef's dominance. Poison Jab is a workaround but it can't 2HKO Leftovers sets without Band, and running Poison Jab is compromising your ability to deal with other threats (pex namely). Also nice having a viable spinner around.

I mean as I said trace copies a random ability so it makes 0 difference

 

[Ivy]

Late on this but Hamlette is joining the council and even made a delightful piece of art to boot!

 

[ChoiceScarfed]

Reuniclus is a defensive BEAST.
Immune to Status, and regenerator, and access to recover makes this thing a force to be reckoned with.
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Recover
- Toxic
- Acid Armor/Calm Mind
So, yeah, crazy.

 

[dhelmise]

This is a bug btw, as well as some other interactions like Scrappy, inner focus, etc. only blocking main slot Intimidate. Expect these edge cases to change around in behavior without warning. Theoretically the ngas is to remove all abilities including Weezing's own.

The Neutralizing Gas thing is not a bug, when you have all 3 abilities at once the other two will trigger first because they have faster priority than neutralizing gas, and neutralizing gas intentionally doesnt nullify the source pokemon's ability, because then that would nullify neutralizing gas, basically defeating the point of the ability. the other stuff was fixed tho

 

[alaserdolphin]

So this is definitely a meta I have missed, and one of my favorite sets from Gen 7 (which I haven't really seen mentioned much here) is this:


Snorlax @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 188 HP / 196 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Body Slam
- Darkest Lariat / Coverage
- Earthquake / Coverage
This is Snorlax at some of his finest. +6 Base 110 Atk on a (basically) full-health tank is wonderful, and you can do some really nasty stuff:

Some Calcs

196+ Atk Snorlax Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 388-460 (100.5 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 426-502 (106.5 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Conkeldurr: 385-454 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO (and max HP max Def Bold Conk is approaching unset territory)
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o: 319-376 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 214-254 (54.3 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 276-325 (90.7 - 106.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes (EQ obviously cleanly kills)
+6 196+ Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 349-412 (88.5 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (Lariat also obviously cleanly kills)

And even on the receiving end:
252 Atk Technician Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 350-420 (68.8 - 82.6%) -- approx. 2HKO
252+ Def Kommo-o Body Press vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 398-470 (78.3 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Iron Fist Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 390-458 (76.7 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (+1 is to simulate Guts)
252+ Atk Hawlucha Close Combat vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 482-570 (94.8 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (this could probably get optimized so it's not even a roll)
252 Atk Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 358-422 (70.4 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

There are a lot more, but I'd like to think this shows a fair bit how great this big boi is.

In terms of the EVs:
192+ Atk EVs guarantees you OHKO 252HP Heatran when you're unboosted.
124 Spe EVs outspeeds uninvested base 45s (most notably Conk)
That leaves 192 EVs. 192 HP EVs makes it an odd value, so 4 of those EVs are moved over to Atk.

I expect this thing banned ASAP

 

[Heinte]

I literally just made a forum account today to post a team that I am proud of... currently hovering around 1300 on the ladder... feel free to give feedback.
So the essence of this team was building around Life Orb Mienshao, as missing the absurdly strong Reckless HJK is less detrimental alongside Regenerator. Following that, I decided to add Nidoqueen, which capitalizes on Mienshao's inability to touch Weezing-G, as well as sets rocks and checks Clefable for the team. EDIT: Admittedly, Rivalry can get in the way sometimes with damage output on Clefable, Corviknight, Hippowdown, etc. I will probably struggle more if people start teching Male gender. Next, I needed a way to deal with Reuniclus, which led me to choose Krookodile; Scarf Krook also functions as a late-game sweeper as well that benefits from Mienshao/Nidoqueen's core-breaking prowess. I might consider running Darkest Lariat over Stone Edge to help vs. Acid Armor variants of Reuniclus. The rest of the team serves as my backbone when Nidoqueen and Mienshao aren't out bashing the opponent.

^click for team

Threatlist:
Trick Room- I've seen a bunch of TR teams so far and they are pretty tough to deal with; Nidoqueen usually puts in a lot of work but struggles to deny TR setup. I guess running Knock Off on Ferrothorn would help vs. Marowak-A, which consistently murders me.
Azumarill- Letting BD Azu set up is usually a death sentence for this team unless I can cheese it with Static.
There's probably a bunch of other stuff out there that I haven't yet seen that gives me major trouble.

 

[Poké Legend]

Can I suggest taking a look at Conkeldur? Feel like an Exscadrill scenerio. Iron fist, Guts, and sheer force? Ice and Thunder Punch become casual 117 bp moves. You don't necessarily have to run flame orb to activate guts.

As for the person who said set up sweepers feel almost unviable against clef....that's kind of the point of unaware ... literally to prevent set up sweepers from doing what their name implies: sweeping you. Literally doing its job...just so happens that every unaware pokemon has access set up moves that lets them become sweepers them selves.

 

[Achelexus]

Can I suggest taking a look at Conkeldur? Feel like an Exscadrill scenerio. Iron fist, Guts, and sheer force? Ice and Thunder Punch become casual 117 bp moves. You don't necessarily have to run flame orb to activate guts.

As for the person who said set up sweepers feel almost unviable against clef....that's kind of the point of unaware ... literally to prevent set up sweepers from doing what their name implies: sweeping you. Literally doing its job...just so happens that every unaware pokemon has access set up moves that lets them become sweepers them selves.

The thing is that Clefable is countering setup sweepers while being unable to be worn down by chip damage. It's unkillable unless you're able to consistently OHKO it, which is very unlikely when it has cosmic power. At that point you're either fishing for crits or just not killing it.

 

[Anpawo]

hi everyone,
i'm here to talk about conkeldurr and why i think he should be banned.
I'm going to show you calcs and try to make you understand that a pokemon that one shot without boost all the other pokemons even those that are defensive must be BAN.
Since the calculator can't calculate with 3 talents, I'm going to assume that he is boosted to +1 in Atk for the Guts, that he has Sheer Sorce as a talent and the item that boosts the moves of certain types by 1,2 for the Iron Fist.

Vs clefable :
Poison jab :
+1 252+ Atk Sheer Force Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Mach punch :
+1 252+ Atk Black Belt Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 60-71 (15.2 - 18%)
Thunder punch (in case you don't predict well) :
+1 252+ Atk Magnet Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 194-229 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Facade (even though I think it's bad) :
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs toxapex :
Thunder punch :
+1 252+ Atk Magnet Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 238-280 (78.2 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs slowbro :
Thunder punch :
+1 252+ Atk Magnet Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs corviknight :
Thunder punch :
+1 252+ Atk Magnet Sheer Force Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 308-364 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs hippowdon :

Ice munch one shot every intimidate and 2hko hippowdon.

The only counter is weezing / galar or not, but he takes :
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 113-133 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- 31.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Plus weezing cannot heal well (pain split).

Not much else to say except ban conk.

 

[necrobones]

The thing is that Clefable is countering setup sweepers while being unable to be worn down by chip damage. It's unkillable unless you're able to consistently OHKO it, which is very unlikely when it has cosmic power. At that point you're either fishing for crits or just not killing it.

Phasing, Haze/Clear Smog, Neutralizing Gas + Toxic (Spikes), and powerful breakers like Obstagoon, Conkeldurr (Facade does 60-70% to physdef and Poison Jab OHKOs), Magnezone, Nidoking/queen and Alolan Marowak are all great ways of keeping Clefable in check. While I do think Clefable is potentially unhealthy, I'd much rather see Magearna and potentially Pheromosa go first.

On another note: I personally think Conkeldurr is fine - very very strong, but far from broken. Ignoring the fact that it's hard countered by (Galarian) Weezing (Conkeldurr can't activate its Flame Orb in Misty Terrain so you can't even reliably use Facade against it), it has trouble fitting the moves that get boosted so well by its abilities: Knock Off, Mach Punch and Close Combat (Drain Punch is like 30bp lower, you're a breaker first and foremost so run your actually powerful attacks) are all mandatory and thus you have to choose between Thunder Punch, Drain Punch, Facade, and Ice Punch in your last slot. Missing each leaves you checked by various threats - you want Thunder Punch for Slowbro and Toxapex, Drain Punch for longer games against multiple physically defensive mons (you take A LOT of damage between burn, hazards, and potentially Rocky Helmet chip), Facade for Clefable, and Ice Punch for Landorus and Tangrowth. It's a very strong breaker that requires lots of preparation for defensive teams, for sure, but I wouldn't say it's anywhere near as threatening to those teams as the likes of Gengar, Kyurem, and Clefable/Reuniclus are (and two of those don't even benefit from this meta). And offensively speaking - Conkeldurr has poor special bulk, needs nearly maximum speed investment for Corviknight (you don't want to get into position to break only to die to Brave Bird), has a poor defensive typing that offers few resistances, and can only hit faster mons with Mach Punch, so realistically any breaker not weak to Fighting can threaten it out fairly well, as can defensive mons that naturally outspeed and have a strong attack (Tapu Fini, Zapdos/Moltres, Landorus). Especially notable in this regard are Fairy-type breakers Azumarill and Magearna, who both offensively check Conkeldurr while being just as hard or harder to consistently switch into AND providing more defensive utility and set variety.

Obviously both of these mons should be watched carefully, but I think it's hasty to cry out against them so soon. It hasn't even been a week - give the meta some time to adapt and find more ways to deal with them.

 

[Talpr0ne]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilities-1315789162

Either Mirror Armor or Intimidate appear to be bugged, Intimidate was supposed to be reflected by Corviknight here.

 

[Achelexus]

Phasing, Haze/Clear Smog, Neutralizing Gas + Toxic (Spikes), and powerful breakers like Obstagoon, Conkeldurr (Facade does 60-70% to physdef and Poison Jab OHKOs), Magnezone, Nidoking/queen and Alolan Marowak are all great ways of keeping Clefable in check. While I do think Clefable is potentially unhealthy, I'd much rather see Magearna and potentially Pheromosa go first.

That's a lot of work to check a single mon. The only real counter I see there is Toxic (G)Weezing, and it doesn't work if Misty Terrain is up. All the others have trouble either coming in (and potentially getting moonblasted in the face) or just have trouble KOing it depending on the set. The thing is that Clefable doesn't really have counters right now. In regular metagames, Unaware Clef is worn down by chip damage, and MG Clef is countered by setup breakers. There's nothing that can counter all of the possible Clef sets right now. I haven't had any trouble with Mag or Phero, but Clef has given me headaches.

 

[necrobones]

That's a lot of work to check a single mon. The only real counter I see there is Toxic (G)Weezing, and it doesn't work if Misty Terrain is up. All the others have trouble either coming in (and potentially getting moonblasted in the face) or just have trouble KOing it depending on the set. The thing is that Clefable doesn't really have counters right now. In regular metagames, Unaware Clef is worn down by chip damage, and MG Clef is countered by setup breakers. There's nothing that can counter all of the possible Clef sets right now. I haven't had any trouble with Mag or Phero, but Clef has given me headaches.

I'm not sure how a bunch of things that you would use anyway are "a lot of work." Phasing and Haze/Clear Smog are useful for every single setup sweeper (Magearna, Reuniclus, Kommo-o etc.), (Galarian) Weezing is one of the best physical walls around, and all of those breakers are excellent choices on various kinds of teams. That's not even mentioning specific mons that don't benefit from the metagame much like Heatran, Tapu Lele, Toxapex, Amoonguss, Venusaur...

I think Clefable's unhealthiness doesn't at all stem from lacking counterplay, given that any good team is going to have good answers to it one way or another - rather, it stems from its versatility and splashability. A vast majority of teams are shooting themselves in the foot by not using Clefable due to how much it does.

 

[Cuddly]

Out of curiosity, does anyone else think Solgaleo could be dropped just fine?
I say this since has been unbanned in the meta, and looking at Solgaleo, nothing seems to stand out that otherwise would make it too hard to handle, and both are similarly awful.

Here are some comparisons:

Comparisons

Bulk Comparison

Physical Side:
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 170-204 (52.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Solgaleo: 336-396 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Special Side:
252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned: 218-260 (67 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Solgaleo: 336-396 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Between Solgaleo and Zama-C, Solgaleo has a notably less bulk on the physical side. Their special bulk is closer, but Zamazenta-C is still bulkier and will tank similar effectiveness.
In addition, defensive utility is most than just their defensives with HP either. It is also their typing, immunities, passive damage handling, healing, what do they do to make threats leave the field, and some quirks.
In this regard, both Zama-C and Solgaleo are extremely similar in everything besides typing and healing.
They both are immune to Toxic and Sand, they are as vulnerable to Spikes, they resist Stealth Rock (although Zamazenta-C has a better resist), both have some pretty hard hitting moves, and both have some quirks (Zamazenta-C can't remove its item, and Solgaleo can't have its Def/SpD dropped. They have some negative quirks too, like Close Combat dropping stats and Flare Blitz causing recoil)
For typing, while Solgaleo does resist Fairy and Psychic instead of being neutral while also being neutral to Fighting, Zamazenta-C is not weak to Ghost, resists Dark and Bug, and x4 resists Rock.
For healing, Zamazenta-C's only means of self healing is with Rest. Meanwhile, Solgaleo has Morning Sun and rest, in addition to being able to hold Leftovers and Berries.

For this comparison, the defensive profiles between these 2 are very similar, but Zamazenta-C I'd say edges out Solgaleo. The physical side of Zamazenta-C can tank multiple super effective attacks from Pokemon like Scarf Landorus-T while still having room for weaker attackers. A bit of chip damage from a Pokemon like Slowbro's Scald or Tangrowth's Knock Off will put Solgaleo is ranges where it'll faint. The Fighting/Steel typing, coupled with anti-knock off and anti-trick item is also insanely useful when some of the best attacks are U-turn and Knock Off. Not having your defenses dropped by secondary effects may be nice, but Dauntless Shield is guaranteed switching in.
As for healing, Morning Sun is definitely great, that is if you can fit it into your set, and having Leftovers (which can be removed by a super effective Knock Off) means you'll be compromising your power. It also isn't too much to put in a Grassy Terrain setter or Healing/Wish for Zama, although I didn't mention this since both benefit from those things.

Speed Tier comparison

Now obviously, Zamazenta-C blows Solgaleo out of the water when it comes to speed tiers, with the only advantage Solgaleo having is Trick Room (which it shouldn't use), FMB blocking Sticky Web, and Choice Scarf. Both have access to Agility in the cause they want to use that.
But given that Zamazenta-C has 128 Spe, while Solgaleo only have 97 Spe, it's pretty self evident which one wins the speed war. Solgaleo's best option for speed control is Scarf, which again can be Knocked Off and in addition restricts your move selection, and it also still cuts into your power, especially when you're going Jolly. Zamazenta-C still outspeeds a fair amount of Pokemon with Adamant and no boosts due to how naturely fast it is, and it can compromise some speed due to that bulk.

Power/Coverage Comparison

First, let's take a look at just raw power on viable moves against the same effectiveness.
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 258-306 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And for a control comparison, where is how much Urshifu can do
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This power difference is actually pretty surprising. Given how Solgaleo has a higher attack and can hold Choice Band, you would think that it would be doing a lot more than just 15% more vs Avalugg. It is still a notable difference, but remember, Zamazenta's other advantages to Solgaleo without Leftovers or Choice Scarf. By using Choice Band, won't have the same passive recovery that gives it an edge over Zamazenta-C defensively and won't get a +1 to speed instantly to outspeed more Pokemon than Zamazenta-C.

Let us not forget that is also Solgaleo's stongest viable STAB (Way too fast for Gyro Ball, Steel Roller is situational, and Solgaleo needs something with 46kg or less weight to maximize Heavy Slam). Solgaleo's other STAB isn't so great.
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 228-270 (68.2 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Solgaleo Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 306-360 (91.6 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Yeah, it's strongest physical Psyhic STAB is Psychic Fangs. And that's just for raw power.

Now consider the synergy between Steel/Psychic and Steel/Fighting. While Steel/Fighting can be blanked by Toxapex, Steel/Psychic gets blanked by most Steel types, and both struggle against Water/Psychic.
That isn't the end however, as these Pokemon do have coverage and set up.

For coverage, Solgaleo is absolutely the winner her.
It has pretty much every move Zama-C has and what Zama-C wants. Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Knock Off, and Stone Edge are some moves Zamazenta-C wishes it has since the only Non-STAB physical attack with more than 100 BP is Giga Impact. You also shouldn't ignore Solgaleo's special moves. While not as stong, Solgaleo has a respectable 113 SpA with moves like Psychic, Psyshock, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Steel Beam, and Thunderbolt. That'll be important for consideration up next as well.

Lastly, let's look at the extremely barren pool of set up.
Since neither get Body Press (Rip Zamazenta-C), means for each to raise (or lower opposing) stats for increasing damage are;
Solgaleo:
-Calm Mind (Special Only)
-Work Up (Only one stage)
-Metal Sound (Lower's special for the opponent)
-Swagger+Psych Up (God Awful and Stupid)
-Pinch Berries (Mediocre at best)
-Meteor Beam (Is only good with Power Herb so only usable once and only raise SpA)
-Iron Tail (Effectively a 22.5% only chance to even lower your opponent's Defense)
-Metal Claw (1 stage with a low chance and pathetic BP)
-Crunch
-Flash Cannon
-Focus Blast
-Psychic
-Knock Off vs Leftovers/HDB/Eviolite (technically doesn't increase stats, but is worth mentioning)

Zamazenta:
-Having most of those secondary stat raising/dropping moves besides Psychic and Meteor Beam
-Howl
-Also Work Up
-Guard Swap after using Close Combat
-Focus Energy/Laser Focus

So Solgaleo has some niche extra options Zamazenta-C doesn't have, most of which are terrible besides Calm Mind and Knock Off.
Meanwhile, Zamazenta-C not only gets Work Up, but Zamazenta-C also gets Howl. If you are going straight physical attacker, Howl is objectively better set up than Work Up, as it has the most PP a move can have, so it can beat out Haze attempts. Neither have Power Trip, so that SpA bonus would mostly be pointless.
Solgaleo does have an advantage, in being immune to Intimidate.
For boosting, the winner is neither, since they both equally suck ass and Knock Off isn't a boosting move. Solgaleo has slightly more options and can bypass Unaware with Sunsteel Strike, but Zamazenta-C can set up for longer as well and beats Haze and wins PP wars more often.

Utility comparison

The last comparison for this post (mostly because I should be doing projects instead of this) is Utility.
Solgaleo wins by far.
It has Teleport and Knock Off and Thunder Wave and Toxic and can set up Screens with Light Clay if it wants and gets FUCKING ROAR WHILE ZAMAZENTA-C DOESN'T COME ON GAMEFREAK YOU ALREADY DIDN'T GIVE IT BODY PRESS WHY CAN'T IT LEARN ROAR EVEN XERNEAS AND TAPU KOKO GET ROAR ALONG WITH KELDEO AND LYCANROC WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WHY WOULD THE WOLF LEGENDARY THAT ALREADY KNOWS HOWL NOT KNOW ROAR

Due to their similarities, the advantages and weaknesses Solgaleo has compared to Zamazenta-Crowned, and the meta already allowing Zamazenta-Crowned, I think it could be considered for a drop. Even the ability to hold an item, which means it has to choose longevity, speed, or power. Sunsteel Strike is also not particularly that gamebreaking either, as it only affects it's match-up against Unaware, and Fluffy/Fur Coat only the former if it runs a Work Up set.
In my opinion, it would be more of a welcomed addition. It isn't as polarizing with it's Defensives and Speed, where Zamazenta-C goes with doing the extreme, while also having a nice presence as being a good answer to Clefable, with Sunsteel Strike, without being broken itself. Not to say Zamazenta-C is broken either.

 

[QY_CS]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilities-1316067401

Obstagoon does NOT get Defiant where it should if the default ability is reckless (might happen with guts too, haven't tested it out)
Makes me a bit worried on how much of these problems still exist in Pokebilities.
P.S. if this is not the place to post it plz give me a link / tell me where i should go, thx

 

[Hardyzfan1]

I wanna bring some special attention to a pokemon in this meta that is used but very underrated

Heracross: Heracross is my personal favorite pokemon, and in this meta, it has some super valuable traits. Guts is a phenomenal ability that made Obstagoon in this meta a threat, however, Heracross's Hidden Ability Moxie is what kicks this mon up to 11. using its RU Guts wallbreaker Smogon set is the most likely set as it has the most coverage. With close combat steel types bar Corvinight, pre moxie, The best way to use this mon is on a Hazards team that uses Sticky web Araquanid. I'm still testing the waters of this meta, but I think that Heracross is very good in this Meta

 

[Hamlette]

A few thoughts on potentially bannable mons:
leaning on banning Magearna, it pulls more its weight even in bad matchups; while it has quite a few checks, they are all soft checks and a bad predict costs you the game. It checking Clef is nice, but that just makes it even more indispensable.
it seems clear that when the meta stabilizes, Clef will still be dominating. It invalidates several setup mons, has limited counterplay options, and is hard not to justify it in a team, blanket checking half the tier. Clefable has been moved to the watchlist for now.
Dracozolt seems borderline, it does a nasty chunk to its checks with neutral coverage, and can easily go mixed for DMeteor and FireBlast. Its unreliability and Hippowdon's presence is holding it back – though that shouldn't be the only factor.
Conkeldurr seems fine, boosted EPunches are awesome, but it's very limited by 4MSS; forgoing Façade or any other move is significant cost. Its speed, typing, special bulk and having to run FlameOrb holds it back. The format seems to lack Wispers it can abuse for a AV set, too.
haven't seen many Pheromosa, and those I saw haven't done anything extraordinary. It'll still be on the watchlist, though.
doggo seems healthy to me, it checks Clef and its insane physical bulk helps it vs several threats in the metagame, without being busted itself.

Out of curiosity, does anyone else think Solgaleo could be dropped just fine?
I say this since has been unbanned in the meta, and looking at Solgaleo, nothing seems to stand out that otherwise would make it too hard to handle, and both are similarly awful.

It being comparable stats-wise to Zama-C, but with access to coverage such as EQ and FlareBlitz, utility such as Teleport, Knock, Toxic and Twave, recovery, a signature move that ignores abilities, immunity to Intimidate/Webs, in addition to having an item slot, makes it unquestionably busted. I am no Ubers player, but its lack of presence in Ubers seems to have more to do with Necro-DM outclassing it than it being insanely bad.

P.S.: underrated mons I haven't seen much used/discussed:
Insane speed, and it ignores Unaware and paralysis. It still won't 1HK Clefable at +2, (though +4 has a chance to), but with Psychic or Misty Seed (which you can use with Weezing-Galar), Hawlucha is guaranteed to live a Moonblast, which might let it 2HK Clefable and sweep.
at +2 crit (with ScopeLens), Togekiss gets 50% chance of critting, significantly boosting its damage output while maintaining its hax chance. Crits also ignore Clefable's CM/CP boosts, which can be situationally helpful with some (super) luck.

 

[OctoMystic]

A few thoughts on potentially bannable mons:
leaning on banning Magearna, it pulls more its weight even in bad matchups; while it has quite a few checks, they are all soft checks and a bad predict costs you the game. It checking Clef is nice, but that just makes it even more indispensable.
it seems clear that when the meta stabilizes, Clef will still be dominating. It invalidates several setup mons, has limited counterplay options, and is hard not to justify it in a team, blanket checking half the tier. Clefable has been moved to the watchlist for now.
Dracozolt seems borderline, it does a nasty chunk to its checks with neutral coverage, and can easily go mixed for DMeteor and FireBlast. Its unreliability and Hippowdon's presence is holding it back – though that shouldn't be the only factor.
Conkeldurr seems fine, boosted EPunches are awesome, but it's very limited by 4MSS; forgoing Façade or any other move is significant cost. Its speed, typing, special bulk and having to run FlameOrb holds it back. The format seems to lack Wispers it can abuse for a AV set, too.
haven't seen many Pheromosa, and those I saw haven't done anything extraordinary. It'll still be on the watchlist, though.
doggo seems healthy to me, it checks Clef and its insane physical bulk helps it vs several threats in the metagame, without being busted itself.

It being comparable stats-wise to Zama-C, but with access to coverage such as EQ and FlareBlitz, utility such as Teleport, Knock, Toxic and Twave, recovery, a signature move that ignores abilities, immunity to Intimidate/Webs, in addition to having an item slot, makes it unquestionably busted. I am no Ubers player, but its lack of presence in Ubers seems to have more to do with Necro-DM outclassing it than it being insanely bad.

P.S.: underrated mons I haven't seen much used/discussed:
Insane speed, and it ignores Unaware and paralysis. It still won't 1HK Clefable at +2, (though +4 will do with IronHead), but with Psychic or Misty Seed (which you can use with Weezing-Galar), Hawlucha is guaranteed to live a Moonblast, which might let it 2HK Clefable and sweep.
at +2 crit (with ScopeLens), Togekiss gets 50% chance of critting, significantly boosting its damage output while maintaining its hax chance. Crits also ignore Clefable's CM/CP boosts, which can be situationally helpful with some (super) luck.

Agree with mage, I've been using it and got to a peak of top 5 like 2 days ago. It's pretty much impossible to swap into (especially without a viable ground that lives fleur) so it just volts or gets a kill. Checks like magnezone and heatran get overwhelmed by focus blast and it just exerts incredible offensive power, and this is just the choice specs variant. Double dance sets are also extremely lethal and can often win games with minimal effort.
Clef, zolt, conk, zama, seem fine
Havent seen mich phero either

I've made a ho with lucha which did fine (however acrobatics does more than iron head i think). But both of them are defo underrated and would love to see them in the metagame.

 

[Gojira1150]

How does Sheer Force interact with Poison Touch? Just curious if Physical Nidoking might be an option here, and whether or not stuff like Megahorn will get Poison Touch's benefit or Sheer Force's benefit