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Pokémon Movepool Oddities & Explanations

I never really got the distinction between those moves in terms of what can learn either.

Sure, Rock Slide feels less like a precision move (in that it's just hurling a load of boulders at the foe) but Stone Edge is described as "stabbing the target from below with sharpened stones". That suggests an additional degree of precision, but... they're rocks. Hell, I could pick up a handful of rocks right now and a couple of them would probably be sufficiently sharp enough to stab with. And it's not as if most of the Pokemon which get Stone Edge are specifically noted for being precision warriors (I'm thinking of Gallade or Throh or Sawk here) - Gigalith, Nidoking, Golem, Coalossal, Steelix, Muk, Darmanitan, Quagsire, Tauros, and even Shuckle learn it.
 
Ampharos can't learn Tail Glow, even though its tail can light up brightly. Manaphy and Xurkitree (only in Gen 7, the move was removed in Gen 8) can learn the move, so why can't Ampharos?
It's the Light Pokemon, and GSC involves a segment where you would have to cure a sick Ampharos so it can light the lighthouse in Olivine City.

I don't think it would be overpowered on Ampharos, given its low speed and lack of secondary STAB. It would kinda be a mini Xurkitree.
 
Omastar68 said:
I saw fell stinger togedemaru. In 8, and why sobble? IDK these weird ones
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Inteleon has a knife at the end of its tail, something only mentioned in, like, the official website and nowhere else.
Inteleon’s rail-thin body hides a variety of surprising tricks within it. For example, its fingertips can fire out water that has been compressed within its body—shooting it out at a speed of Mach 3—to hit opponents where they’re weakest. Inteleon also has special lenses in its eyes and a sharp knife hidden in its tail. These hidden tricks allow it to adapt to any situation!
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It does have an animation of it making a bunch of frills shoot out along its tail, though that doesn't feel quite the same. Maybe something that got a bit lost in translation (or development).

Togedemaru is a spiky ball; there's a question of why they dont give it to EVERY spiky or sharp pokemon, but that's what they're going for. Perhaps the central "tail" was considered especially stinger-like.
 
Krockodile said:
Ampharos can't learn Tail Glow, even though its tail can light up brightly. Manaphy and Xurkitree (only in Gen 7, the move was removed in Gen 8) can learn the move, so why can't Ampharos?
It's the Light Pokemon, and GSC involves a segment where you would have to cure a sick Ampharos so it can light the lighthouse in Olivine City.

I don't think it would be overpowered on Ampharos, given its low speed and lack of secondary STAB. It would kinda be a mini Xurkitree.
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It's because the Japanese name of the move translates to "Firefly Glow". Manaphy gets its because it's based on a sea angel (slight stretch but it works I guess) while Xurkitree gets its because. Uh. It's an Ultra Beast and weird? Point is, doesn't fit for Ampharos.
 
Karxrida said:
It's because the Japanese name of the move translates to "Firefly Glow". Manaphy gets its because it's based on a sea angel (slight stretch but it works I guess) while Xurkitree gets its because. Uh. It's an Ultra Beast and weird? Point is, doesn't fit for Ampharos.
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Whilst the move is translated to "Firefly Glow", a mon does not necessarily need to be a Firefly or related to one just so it can learn the move. Pokemon learning moves aren't strictly themed: Primeape learning Overheat because its always angry or Aggron learning Surf and Thunderbolt because it's based on a Kaiju. Both are based on the themes of the Pokemon based on lore.

Considering that Manaphy and Xuritree can learn Tail Glow, it can likely imply that GF favours the move more towards mons that just flash their light brightly, like Ampharos.

Plus Manaphy is a sea angel that can learn Tail Glow (which don't glow as bright as fireflies), so Ampharos should be able to learn it.
 
The fact the move was at one point on 3 pokemon, two of which were not fireflies and you have to stretch to fit in the box, really just means the box is a lot less strict than it seems and yeah honestly Ampharos could have gotten it. The description of the move is even more vague "it flashes a light" and "looks at a flashing light to sharpen the mind" so it kind of feels like they left it open.
But even if you want to be cute and say its just more minor, flashing bioluminescence that Ampharos doesn't count for, you can probably make the case for other Pokemon getting the move. Lumineon, perhaps. I think they just didn't want to hand it out to a bunch of Pokemon, with the 2 legends/mythics getting preferential treatment. And even then who knows if Xurkitree ever gets it back, like how Magearna lost Heart Swap.

I commented on this in the Z-A thread when it came to huge power but sometimes I think we can be a bit too literal on ~*japanese names*~. Sure it's something to consider but just....Like, Quiver Dance is "Butterfly Dance" & sure enough primarily goes to Butterflies and Moths. Clearly they want that connection to be the primary way you look at it. But they still gave it to two flower people, a roach & Oricorio finally got the move in SV even. Definitely leaves open something like Ludicolo getting it. Or Lumineon, perhaps. Maybe one day they will, who knows, they can go a while without giving those moves out but I don't think the reason they (or other candidates) didn't get the move is because of a lack of butterfly motif, dancing &/or plant.
 
Karxrida said:
It's because the Japanese name of the move translates to "Firefly Glow". Manaphy gets its because it's based on a sea angel (slight stretch but it works I guess) while Xurkitree gets its because. Uh. It's an Ultra Beast and weird? Point is, doesn't fit for Ampharos.
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I still do not understand why Lanturn doesn't get Tail Glow, technically its not a tail but like, its way closer to what Manaphy does.
 
Not to mention an even weirder thing about that particular move:

So in Gen III it was Volbeat's signature attack, and the description was

Flashes a light that sharply raises Sp. Atk.

K, sure, whatever, bit vague but never mind. Then a couple of generations later after Manaphy got it too, the move's description got updated to

The user stares at flashing lights to focus its mind, drastically raising its Sp. Atk stat.

Oh so it actually has to look at its own tail? I see. Wait but Manaphy doesn't have a tail ...but it has that long antannae, so that's what it looks at instead.

...okay but how tf is that little chubster Volbeat looking at its own tail exactly. I'd have a better chance of licking my own elbow.

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QuentinQuonce said:
Not to mention an even weirder thing about that particular move:

So in Gen III it was Volbeat's signature attack, and the description was

Flashes a light that sharply raises Sp. Atk.

K, sure, whatever, bit vague but never mind. Then a couple of generations later after Manaphy got it too, the move's description got updated to

The user stares at flashing lights to focus its mind, drastically raising its Sp. Atk stat.

Oh so it actually has to look at its own tail? I see. Wait but Manaphy doesn't have a tail ...but it has that long antannae, so that's what it looks at instead.

...okay but how tf is that little chubster Volbeat looking at its own tail exactly. I'd have a better chance of licking my own elbow.

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Game theory time: volbeat has an extendable neck like drednaw does and it uses sheer willpower to look at its own tail.
 
I'm intrigued about the move Swords Dance, which its description states as: "The user boosts its Attack stat for a while by performing a frenetic dance."
My question presides on who learns it and who doesn't. I can understand mons like Sirfetch'd, Glastier, Kingambit, Aegislash, Samurott and Gallade learning it because their personage includes swords or sharp objects, so it makes sense. I could also understand mons like Charizard, Drapion, Dodrio, Raticate and Heracross learning it because they are either aggressive mons or those that would be prepared for combat if in danger. I can also understand Azumarill and Slurpuff not learning it because they aren't aggressive in nature. However, not every aggressive mon can learn it.

Mons like Mamoswine, Tyranitar, Krookodile, Tauros (though its Gen 5 counterpart Bouffalant can), Emboar, Hitmontop and Machamp can't, even though they meet the standard of mons being either aggressive or those prepared for combat. If they had an alternative like Bulk Up or Work Up that would be fine, but I feel that's not a good move to use compared to Swords Dance. Not to mention I think mons like Emboar and Machamp do need to buffed.

Also for some reason Jumpluff can learn Swords Dance, even though it mentions nothing about combat and more talks about on how it drifts by the wind.

I get if Swords dance isn't taught to mons like Mamoswine if it would be too powerful, or if Krookodile didn't learn it as it may come across as an expy of Garchomp or Feraligatr offensive wise.
 
I think with swords dance, they just give it to anything with a sword or sharp blades to fit the move's theming, and then just whatever else they feel like should have it for gameplay purposes, rather than there being a strong reasoning.
 
WinterArcanine said:
I think with swords dance, they just give it to anything with a sword or sharp blades to fit the move's theming, and then just whatever else they feel like should have it for gameplay purposes, rather than there being a strong reasoning.
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^ this. It's the generic "raise Attack" move. Meditate and Howl and Bulk Up and Dragon Dance are all fairly restricted because they're more characteristic of certain Pokemon archetypes, but Swords Dance is given to just about anything with sharp teeth or claws or any sort of protruding limb or implement. And also some stuff without those - like there's a bunch of weird ones: Hitmonchan and Swalot and Dodrio and Solrock and Dwebble and Venusaur and Meganium and Tangela and Vileplume and Jumpluff and Celebi and Budew... wow, there's a weird amount of Grass-types who get that move actually. I guess some of them get Razor Leaf so maybe that's their sharp implement.
 
QuentinQuonce said:
Venusaur and Meganium and Tangela and Vileplume and Jumpluff and Celebi and Budew... wow, there's a weird amount of Grass-types who get that move actually. I guess some of them get Razor Leaf so maybe that's their sharp implement.
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That's actually interesting, I didn't consider on how even leaves can be sharpened. I used to think Swords Dance was more of a battle cry (for a lack of a better word), which is why I was confused about Jumpluff using it. I can see it could just be a preparation stance, like Bulk Up.
 
Krockodile said:
That's actually interesting, I didn't consider on how even leaves can be sharpened. I used to think Swords Dance was more of a battle cry (for a lack of a better word), which is why I was confused about Jumpluff using it. I can see it could just be a preparation stance, like Bulk Up.
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I mean really anything can do a frenetic fighting dance if you broaden the definition of the term "dance" - stomping, flexing, posturing. But Jumpluff still makes a weird candidate for Swords Dance, it's not particularly barbaric or aggressive.
 
Focus Blast has a really weird history for what learns it by level-up. As in it was TM exclusive in its debut gen and was only given to Yveltal for some reason in Gen 6. It wasn't until ZA that the move was bequeathed naturally to other Pokémon: the elemental monkeys and Clawitzer.

I've always imaged Focus Blast to be Kamehamha-esque, so the monkeys learning it naturally is a cute (potential) Dragon Ball reference.
 
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QuentinQuonce said:
^ this. It's the generic "raise Attack" move. Meditate and Howl and Bulk Up and Dragon Dance are all fairly restricted because they're more characteristic of certain Pokemon archetypes, but Swords Dance is given to just about anything with sharp teeth or claws or any sort of protruding limb or implement. And also some stuff without those - like there's a bunch of weird ones: Hitmonchan and Swalot and Dodrio and Solrock and Dwebble and Venusaur and Meganium and Tangela and Vileplume and Jumpluff and Celebi and Budew... wow, there's a weird amount of Grass-types who get that move actually. I guess some of them get Razor Leaf so maybe that's their sharp implement.
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I think that for the grass types it is because they have blades of grass but that doesn’t seem to fit the theme of Venusaur specifically
 
Karxrida said:
Focus Blast has a really weird history for what learns it by level-up. As in it was TM exclusive in its debut gen and was only given to Yveltal for some reason in Gen 6. It wasn't until ZA that the move was bequeathed naturally to other Pokémon: the elemental monkeys and Clawitzer.

I've always imaged Focus Blast to be Kamehamha-esque, so the monkeys learning it naturally is a cute (potential) Dragon Ball reference.
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...Even by TM, Octillery doesn't learn it. Why? And why do so many starters(and almost all fire-type starters) learn it? Someone needs to sit down and figure out what that move actually means.
 
Something interesting I just realized.

In FireRed and LeafGreen the move Magical Leaf was randomly added to the movepools of a bunch of non-Grass Pokémon. The Clefairy line (via Cleffa), Mr. Mime, the Togepi line, and the Ralts line. What do these all have in common? They were all retconned to be Fairy-type in Gen 6.

The only other non-Grass Pokémon that was given access to the move before Gen 6 was Mismagius, which does have a relation to the Fairy-type via Flutter Mane. All other Pokémon with the move currently are either Grass-types or Fairies (or Fairies with grass theming like Florges and Comfey), with the only other exceptions being Gallade (gets the move from Kirila) and female Meowstic.

I'm curious if there's some sort of untranslatable pun in the Japanese name that explains this connection. There is a general "fairies and nature" theme but I feel like there might be more to it.
 
BIG ASHLEY said:
most fire-type starters are joint -fighting type, so that makes sense at least
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You would think that's it, but, by generation:
Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Blastoise. Why do any of the Chars get it, and why Charmander but not Squirtle if we had to pick a pre-evo?
Typhlosion(and H), Feraligatr. Because screw Meganium, amirite?
Sceptile, Combusken, Blaziken, Swampert. Fighting-type justifies Combusken but no other pre-evos, sure. But Swampert breaks the trend of only bipeds getting the move, and seems...less suited than most of the other options(this is pure vibes). Sceptile is at least the first grass-type starter to get it.
Monferno, Infernape. Again, fighting makes sense. Why is Empoleon the first water-type to miss the move?
Pignite, Emboar. Again, fighting.
Chesnaught, Delphox. Psychic and fighting, fine. But the dark-type projectile-focused ninja doesn't get it?
Decidueye H(not A), Incineroar. Basically a fire/fighting, fine. Though again, both of the other starters are more focused on ranged attacks with mental powers than he is, which is odd.
Rillaboom, Cinderace. ???
And no starters in SV get it, which makes the first time the fully-evolved fire type cannot learn the move.

Like I said, I think there are various explanations for what does and doesn't get the move, I just don't think any of those explanations are consistent with each other.
 
Hugin said:
You would think that's it, but, by generation:
Charmander, Charmeleon, Charizard, Blastoise. Why do any of the Chars get it, and why Charmander but not Squirtle if we had to pick a pre-evo?
Typhlosion(and H), Feraligatr. Because screw Meganium, amirite?
Sceptile, Combusken, Blaziken, Swampert. Fighting-type justifies Combusken but no other pre-evos, sure. But Swampert breaks the trend of only bipeds getting the move, and seems...less suited than most of the other options(this is pure vibes). Sceptile is at least the first grass-type starter to get it.
Monferno, Infernape. Again, fighting makes sense. Why is Empoleon the first water-type to miss the move?
Pignite, Emboar. Again, fighting.
Chesnaught, Delphox. Psychic and fighting, fine. But the dark-type projectile-focused ninja doesn't get it?
Decidueye H(not A), Incineroar. Basically a fire/fighting, fine. Though again, both of the other starters are more focused on ranged attacks with mental powers than he is, which is odd.
Rillaboom, Cinderace. ???
And no starters in SV get it, which makes the first time the fully-evolved fire type cannot learn the move.

Like I said, I think there are various explanations for what does and doesn't get the move, I just don't think any of those explanations are consistent with each other.
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The distribution for the fully evolved starters makes sense to me, although the reasons I'd give definitely don't apply to all the other mons that learn Focus Blast. I'd argue that Swampert is bipedal enough for that criterion to still apply here (it's on two legs in all of its 2D spites). Empoleon and regular Decidueye miss out because they don't have distinct enough hands to form the ball between, DBZ-style, while Hisuian Decidueye gets a pass as a Fighting-type. Greninja, Inteleon, and Meowscarada just don't suit the move from a disposition/fighting style perspective. The direct, stand-and-deliver nature of Focus Blast just doesn't jive with their more subtle approaches.

As for why everything else does get it, I think Focus Blast's inspiration and its 'high risk, high reward' stats make it a very protagonist-coded move, which therefore suits the most protagonist-coded group of Pokemon.

Having said all that, I agree that the rest of its distribution is pretty bizarre...
 
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