Pokémon Presents - Pokémon Day 2025 - Pokemon ZA Info & Pokemon Champions Announced

Worldie said:
Also this is where I remind you to stop trying to put logic and consistency in a game series famous for retconning itself every other generation :wo:
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Also reminder that a bunch of the early-game in Kalos was really just driving the point of "Hey! There's a new type! It didn't exist before! Don't go switching that Marill into a Poison move now, haha!"

Oh well, even though Tepid is my least favorite Johto starter, he's still part of the trio, right?
 
Worldie said:
Also this is where I remind you to stop trying to put logic and consistency in a game series famous for retconning itself every other generation :wo:
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You know..outside the fact that the game series overall has been consistent with most things for most of its early existence and really only started to break that in the switch era..and even then not that much. And no; giving a mon a new evolution is not retconning; double so when it is obtained through a method not around before hand.
 
pharaohcalvin said:
You know..outside the fact that the game series overall has been consistent with most things for most of its early existence and really only started to break that in the switch era..and even then not that much. And no; giving a mon a new evolution is not retconning; double so when it is obtained through a method not around before hand.
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I don't think I can agree with this when XY constantly reminded us Megaevolution was exclusive to Kalos and Lucario was the first mega, or even why Mega stones exist...only for ORAS to completely ignore that. "Mega stones? Oh yeah, we also have them here in Hoenn and even before XY takes place. The first Megaevolution? You mean Rayquaza who doesn't even need a stone?" Retconning the entire new gimmick in the literal next entry isn't exactly been consistent on my eyes.

Like yes, Switch era has retconned Thunder Stone now working on other mons but come on, lwt's not pretend it didn't hapoen before. Specially with the "a new type was discovered!" bs.
 
The Mega evolution retcon is honestly probably the most egregious retcon considering it was literally one game later and imo the only one worth really talking about.

Like the type retcons are goofy, but kind of whatever. Gameplay is king, need to acknowledge the new types and then just sweep it under the rug. FRLG & HGSS even retcon out the retcon.
Other stuff is similarly just marginal (evolution methods, evolutions) or you can hand wave away (time periods, exact reading of the text, AUs, etc).

This wasn't just a mechanic it had all the lore written for it!
 
Maybe it’s because I am that old and my first new videogame was Pokémon Red in the Christmas of 1997, but I have always understood, and played every generation as, with the exception of generation 2, a new interpretation of the basic form and factors of Pokemon Red and Blue.

In other words, it’s okay to have complete inconsistency from one generation to the next. It’s genuinely always a case of “it’s a whole new world we live in” and thus it’s always going to be different, but vaguely the same.

The lore of the Pokemon games is always going to be inconsistent - it’s not the exact same team of people, or directors, working on it every generation.

The bit I am always interested in is: how has this team interpreted the brief this generation? It’s part of why I never have a team of Pokemon that are not from the generation I’m planning, aside from online competitive, any play through has to use that generation’s ‘mons.

PLZA feels strongly to me as if it was being interpreted as “what happened next” and “how do we reimagine this world for the new generations”. Lore makes up part of that but it’s not hard and fast rules, obviously. Which is good, frankly, artistic direction shouldn’t be hampered by rules.
 
S.A.C. Martin said:
Maybe it’s because I am that old and my first new videogame was Pokémon Red in the Christmas of 1997, but I have always understood, and played every generation as, with the exception of generation 2, a new interpretation of the basic form and factors of Pokemon Red and Blue.

In other words, it’s okay to have complete inconsistency from one generation to the next. It’s genuinely always a case of “it’s a whole new world we live in” and thus it’s always going to be different, but vaguely the same.

The lore of the Pokemon games is always going to be inconsistent - it’s not the exact same team of people, or directors, working on it every generation.
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To add to this, we have literally seen characters from parallel worlds in gen 7 (ORAS already played with the idea of AUs anyways, but the Alola games outright confirmed their existence) so you can argue every game is still canon. Again it isn't even a gen by gen basis but literally from one game to another with ORAS itself.

They don't care that much about consistency and that's fine, we shouldn't pretend otherwise. ZA could literally reveal/retcon everything about Megaevolution and it would still be on line with past titles. A bad call for a sequel? Sure, I would agree. But would it be some kind of new thing that is going to break some tighly crafted lore and interconected universe? We have been there before. Even ignoring this whole inconsistencies thing, we have had sequels before than not make much sense retroactively, like gen 2 making Oak incompetent enough to teally think there is only 150 mons when Johto is literally next to Kanto, or BW2 completely changing the wildlife in Unova and never really giving any actual explanation about it (characters mention it briefly at the start like if it wasn't a big deal when it should have catrastophic consecuences realistically). And again that's fine. If we start pretending GF doesn't prioritize gameplay and new ideas before consistency we would end up trying to make sense of the National Dex order, or SV requiring you to catch Paradox mons that don't even exist in your world. Or as mentioned why suddenly one day your Cleffa can tank Draco Meteor.

I do understand wanting consistency. But I don't get trying to act like if it was ever some hard rule in Pokemon. It just can't be.

This whole talk does make me wonder how they will handle ORAS lore tho. Maybe ignoring it is for the best but it would still be goofy if they keep pretending Megas only happen in Kalos by now when we have seen it in both Hoenn and Alola.
 
DrrT said:
This whole talk does make me wonder how they will handle ORAS lore tho. Maybe ignoring it is for the best but it would still be goofy if they keep pretending Megas only happen in Kalos by now when we have seen it in both Hoenn and Alola.
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I am confident they will handle it in the simplest way possible: forget it's even a thing.

As in, I don't expect any explanation about how Mega evolution came to be, kinda like in SM/USUM, where Dexio/Sina just give you mega stones and tell you to have fun with it. Similar to also how it's done in Let's Go.
They aren't introducing a new mechanic after all, in fact it's something that's been existing for a while and that Pokemon are able to do. It doesn't need major exposition.
 
Worldie said:
I am confident they will handle it in the simplest way possible: forget it's even a thing.

As in, I don't expect any explanation about how Mega evolution came to be, kinda like in SM/USUM, where Dexio/Sina just give you mega stones and tell you to have fun with it. Similar to also how it's done in Let's Go.
They aren't introducing a new mechanic after all, in fact it's something that's been existing for a while and that Pokemon are able to do. It doesn't need major exposition.
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I mean I wouldn't like put large amounts of flashbacks or cinematics like in XY but it would feel pretty weird for a sequel to not acknowledge the man who owns the cozy hotel is actually a 3000+ year old inmortal who became Super Oppenheimer and caused the creation of Mega Stones. That's like the very least in a Kalos game that is set after XY, at least imho.

Even if we assume no other returning character will show up, AZ is still too big of a deal to let new players think he is just a chill old man with a weird Floette.
 
DrrT said:
This whole talk does make me wonder how they will handle ORAS lore tho. Maybe ignoring it is for the best but it would still be goofy if they keep pretending Megas only happen in Kalos by now when we have seen it in both Hoenn and Alola.
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Sycamore: "So it was originally believed Mega Evolution only occurred in Kalos, but after the Ultimate Weapon incident I expanded my research and discovered Mega Evolution started naturally happening in other regions! Not only that, but they also have legends depicting Mega Evolutions older than the first recorded instance in Kalos! However, outside of Kalos, Mega Evolution is still relatively rare and only used by a handful of capable trainers. Kalos is the only region where Mega Evolution is commonly used by many skilled trainers and has a long history of use. It could be that, while other regions have earlier legends depicting Mega Evolution, the Infinity Energy which is the power behind Mega Evolution is more abundant in Kalos, or at least more accessible. It may very well be Kalos is where Infinity Energy originated!
But that's enough about my research, for humoring my long-winded explanation here's your reward: the Mega Ring; now you can Mega Evolve your Pokemon! But first you need a Pokemon that can Mega Evolve and its Mega Stone, and I just so happen to have three Pokemon and their Mega Stones! Go ahead, pick one; though you'll have to wait until it has fully evolved to Mega Evolve it."
 
After another round of map perusing I have a new observation
1744868093144.png

People are debating whether this game will have ride Pokemon so I might as well point out how there are open entranceways along the bodies of water, implying some form of surfing/aquatic traversal. Could be a technological solution like SWSH's Rotom Bike, but maybe not, who knows
 
Yung Dramps said:
After another round of map perusing I have a new observation
View attachment 733085
People are debating whether this game will have ride Pokemon so I might as well point out how there are open entranceways along the bodies of water, implying some form of surfing/aquatic traversal. Could be a technological solution like SWSH's Rotom Bike, but maybe not, who knows
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The whole terrain thing is a mess. We have canals, rooftops, city streets, and parks. On a rooftop, presumably Flying/Levitating/otherwise not grounded mons have significantly more maneuverability than the rest. If they don't, it'll feel weird and restrictive. City streets and parks would theoretically have a significant influence on how mons act and what moves they can use(though this will definitely not happen). And then there's water. Will Seaking and Skrelp just float outside of water, and how will that interact with rooftops? Are land-based mons like Eevee and Ekans going to be normal speed or slowed when fighting in a canal? What about fire-types or worse, Diglett?

Basically, if it was up to me, I'd be balancing around the idea that the battlefield WILL provide a significant boost or nerf to certain species, and accounting for that is as much a strategic choice as walking into a mining town whose gym has Rhydon statues out front and deciding to box your Arcanine. Otherwise we get Talonflame not able to fly past the edge of a bldg, water types being a worse choice for canal exploration than Chikorita, and all this magnificent architecture not influencing the gameplay at all.

But also that seems like a LOT of work.
 
I’m curious of how much of XY’s story will be carried over. It’s been over a decade at this point and the kids who played XY are teenagers at the very least. Chances are that most people ( especially children ) are unfamiliar with XY’s story, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this game had very little references to XY considering that there was remake to compliment this game unlike Legends Arceus. Of course, I do expect characters like Sycamore and Diantha to make cameos, but I’m unsure how unlikely it will be closely tied to XY’s plot.
 
Yung Dramps said:
After another round of map perusing I have a new observation
View attachment 733085
People are debating whether this game will have ride Pokemon so I might as well point out how there are open entranceways along the bodies of water, implying some form of surfing/aquatic traversal. Could be a technological solution like SWSH's Rotom Bike, but maybe not, who knows
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I think it'd be funny if it was like the swsh bike with inflatable wheels but on rollerskates instead since its Kalos
 
Yung Dramps said:
After another round of map perusing I have a new observation
View attachment 733085
People are debating whether this game will have ride Pokemon so I might as well point out how there are open entranceways along the bodies of water, implying some form of surfing/aquatic traversal. Could be a technological solution like SWSH's Rotom Bike, but maybe not, who knows
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I can't wait for the giant Trubbish fight
what do you mean it's just a decoration on the map
 
It may be pure copium because I want the city to be huge and not what many of us fear about being a too limited enviroment...but XY tecnically strarted ride Pokemon even if it was just with Gogoat. Not having them would be such a waste after SV improved on the LA system. Like yeah, maybe we can't have something as smooth as the Raidons (unless Zygarde had a billion new forms for it) but at least something. If I can get everywhere with just the phone that would be pretty lame unless you have seriously managed to make many buildings that are worth visiting constantly which Pokemon had never really done.

I was never a fan of the rollerskates and replaying Y has not changed my mind of that, trough I guess they could easily be made less annoying to use. Still is not beating riding a Pokemon tho.

Worldie said:
Very little relevance but judging by today's post from their twitter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912581833130205200

does somewhat confirm to me that it is the "same" 3000 year old AZ and not a retconned version that is just a generic old man.
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I know we just talked about how inconsistent GF can be but I think there is a huge difference between that and reusing the same name and looks (changed clothes of course, but he keeps the hair and height) on a trainer that has the very extremely specific Pokemon that AZ did but he being a different person. I don't get why you would ever question this was the case. Like why would a generic old man have that name, be so ridiculously tall or have Eternal Floette of all mons, in Kalos but somehow not be the inmortal one.

This would be like thinking the Oak of Johto games could reasonably be any other person. ZA is very clearly trying to be a sequel to XY. I could understand it if it was a ORAS-style remake or something but that has never been even implied. They clearly want us to assume he is the same guy, unless there is some kind of crazy twist (that would not even work on new players).

Arcticblast said:
I can't wait for the giant Trubbish fight
what do you mean it's just a decoration on the map
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It's clearly a Gigantamax Garbodor that will finally make canon the fan theory about its trainer in SWSH tht everyone kept talking about for some reason.
 
DrrT said:
I don't get why you would ever question this was the case. Like why would a generic old man have that name, be so ridiculously tall or have Eternal Floette of all mons, in Kalos but somehow not be the inmortal one.

This would be like thinking the Oak of Johto games could reasonably be any other person. ZA is very clearly trying to be a sequel to XY. I could understand it if it was a ORAS-style remake or something but that has never been even implied. They clearly want us to assume he is the same guy, unless there is some kind of crazy twist (that would not even work on new players).
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It's not so much a retconning issue (though I did use the word somewhat liberarly), but rather, any chance of "separated universe" or anything the likes.
It being the exact same AZ simply works as confirmation this is supposed to be in possibly the same timeline as mainline games.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
While I know you specified the Johto games, at the same time I wouldn't use Oak as an example of "their physical appearance is basically the same so it's of course them" cause, well...
SM_Prerelease_Samson_Oak.png
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Come on now. I specifically mentioned they have the same appareance, same name and same Pokemon. Oak doesn't have a special height or cryptic name, and in some media Oak is not even a first name...like talk about a nitpick, if you don't like the example just use any returning character in Johto or BW2 lol

The hair is also, like radically different? Not the case with AZ in ZA at all.

Worldie said:
It's not so much a retconning issue (though I did use the word somewhat liberarly), but rather, any chance of "separated universe" or anything the likes.
It being the exact same AZ simply works as confirmation this is supposed to be in possibly the same timeline as mainline games.
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I still don't understand the logic. Even on a separate universe, there is no reason to assume the guy with so many similarities to AZ had any different backstory if we are not dealing with a remake, let alone that he's a generic old man. It would be such a pointless move on their part.
 
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