Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

I don't know if I'm understanding the new Underground correctly, but is it basically just Gens 1 - 3 Pokémon available Underground at any time? If so, that doesn't really address the problem with the original DP dex which was nerfing its own region's Pokémon. I think there was a post on OI about the breakdown of each regional dex and DP's dex only had a woeful 75% of its dex available, due to many of the cross gen evo's being locked into post game.

That is the main problem with BDSP not sticking with Platinum's dex. The new Underground doesn't really address the core issue. This isn't even mentioning Platinum's vastly superior boss rosters.
Though the full extent of availability obviously until the games are in hand, we've seen many Pokemon available in it including gen 4 Pokemon lines both in the dex (Munchlax....hello) and "out" of the dex

There's a magby, as an example


Also I believe that post you're talking about is by me :V
 
I also don't think there's any need to give up hope on Platinum boss teams. I have a hard time believing they'd sign off on Flint's DP squad in 2021
After today's reveal, I literally have zero confidence that they won't do this.

Also I believe that post you're talking about is by me :V
You're right lol. Here it is as reference to my earlier post. 76% but my point still stands.
 
even though nobody fucking wanted them.
I'm gonna be the devil's advocate here in that people did complain that infinite use TMs made the game's item management too easy.

Which I think its fucking stupid LOL being able to make more than one pokemon usable is like. Bare minimum. TRs still pisses me off and returning to expendable TMs does it too.
 
I'm willing to bet they changed the exp gain slightly. I mean, they're not that incompetent, right? Oh, right. Game Freak. Okay, I'm not taking bets, but one of the reviews showed Exp gained after a Pokemon was KOed. Can someone check to see if it's different than how much exp it gave in Gen 4? If it's about the same, I'll admit it sucks.
I haven't confirmed it, but I'm pretty sure this is using Gen 8 EXP yields (changed for about every mon in Gen 5) and the modern scaling formula.
Comparing directly to old EXP calculators, technically you should be getting less EXP on actual participants than the original games, basing on Staravia being the sole fighter and just this example so far, where everyone is being scaled down from the level advantage. You can double the other exp amounts to see how much they would gain normally.
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Comparing to actual video results, it seems this is off by 1 but still about what's expected.
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Collating different information sources here.
https://www.vooks.net/preview-pokemon-brilliant-diamond-and-shining-pearl/
This is the article where a lot of details are being cited from, like the TMs being replenishable. It also mentions trainers give more money than the originals, and since they mention trainer levels are the same I assume they're directly comparing the data. Apparently it seems you can still press A as usual to use a HM move but with the classic pokemon animation every time, or you can use the poketch to use it with no animation which is an interesting choice.

From r/pokeleaks:
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This affection/happiness related message seems to be back. Honestly I don't mind this either but with all the difficulty talk recently, I think SWSH did it pretty well with forcing you to actually engage in the camp to unlock happiness beyond a certain point and still having happiness evos available before that, so hopefully they follow that route.
 
I dont even like dppt and theres a 99% chance i wont like this game, I just think acting like hp bars are something to worry about when they havent been a problem for over 10 years is extremely funny

Also this made me realize bw is more than 10 years old what the fuck
They're not something to worry about, but if HP bars draining faster is high up on the list of improvements after 15 years (especially when the 3rd version of the game that came out just a couple years later largely fixed that already) and much better hardware, that's pretty sad.

This is pretty much par for the course with the lead-up to these games, where none of the things they've definitively confirmed are damning on their own but the lack of things that would compel someone who already has D/P/Pt and/or could just trade for the new mons on Sw/Sh or play on Showdown to get these games tells enough of a story.

I'll admit I wasn't as tapped in to the pre-release hype back then, but I would put B2/W2 as the last Pokemon games that offered a positive surprise in terms of including features you didn't expect; even if something like Challenge Mode or Black Tower/White Treehollow weren't your favorite parts of the game, at least they tried to do something different as opposed to gradually eliminating stuff that was already implemented in previous games just so they could try some half-assed 3-D models with an overmatched dev team or put in more Tamagotchi simulator elements.

With BDSP, I don't know how you could seriously tell yourself that any new revelations between now and release day are more likely to be positive than negative; the chances of Flint having the same goofy lineup or there being no way to use non-Sinnoh dex Pokémon even after completing the story mode are just as likely, if not more so, than there being a Battle Frontier or Distortion World.
 
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I haven't confirmed it, but I'm pretty sure this is using Gen 8 EXP yields (changed for about every mon in Gen 5) and the modern scaling formula.
Comparing directly to old EXP calculators, technically you should be getting less EXP on actual participants than the original games, basing on Staravia being the sole fighter and just this example so far, where everyone is being scaled down from the level advantage. You can double the other exp amounts to see how much they would gain normally.
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Comparing to actual video results, it seems this is off by 1 but still about what's expected.
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Thanks for comparing. :)

So Pokemon used get about 1/2 Exp and unused Pokemon get 1/4. That makes solo runs harder and would let the Bibarel with 4 HMs you never use in battle be somewhat usable useful in an emergency, if that mattered any more. This isn't bad enough to make me say it sucks, but it's bad enough to be kind of worrying. I'm also still optomistic because of the Level 19 Dustox gaining 10 and 25 Exp more Exp than the Level 22 Machop. Even if the scaling doesn't add up, I doubt it's outleveling Cynthia amounts of extra Exp.

I can't help but feel like I'm being way too optimistic about this. Bring on Flint's team so everyone can tell me "I told you so" about the game sucking! (Or let me say I told you so if it's Platinum's Team.)
 
I'm mostly indifferent to forced Exp Share, even as a "hardcore" player. There's a common notion that the games aren't balanced around it, and I just don't think that's the case. XY obviously weren't, but the idea has stuck. My last run was what I, and I assume a lot of people, would consider a pretty typical run where I battle every trainer and catch a modest amount of Pokemon. I will admit I didn't raid at all, but given that 1) the raids are obviously optional, 2) even if you do them the candies are optional to use (in other words, analogous to a toggle), and 3) aren't even affected by the Exp Share, I don't think that matters. Here's a nice big image showing my levels throughout the game compared to my opponent's:

click

(if you're astute you'll notice that there's more than 6 pokemon of mine shown, but to be clear I wasn't actually raising over 6 at a time, a few were dropped over the course of the run)

Yes, I'm higher leveled than the lead a number of times, but only by a few levels, and I've even made this image in disservice to my point by showing off the opponent's lead which is 2-4 levels lower than the ace. I'm around the levels of the trainers I'm fighting, even with this "extra" exp I'm supposedly receiving. So to me it seems clear that the level curve is designed with the amount of exp offered from the Exp Share, and is essentially just a switch to a simple party wide exp system rather than one based on individual merit. Which, for the record, I don't think is necessarily better, but I don't think it's a matter of difficulty one way or the other.
 
The way I play Pokemon seems to be different to everyone else, as I used to focus greatly on the Evs given out from wild Pokemon and trainer battles. I would only send certain Pokemon into battle if they gained favorable EVs (e.g. I would never send my Kadabra to fight a Machop, otherwise he would get useless attack Evs that I would have to remove afterwards), so that by post-game my in-game team are either fully EV trained or close to it. It also increases the difficulty of the game, as I had to find ways of winning against occasional poor type matchups, but that makes the game more fun for me.

EXP all completly screws this up, as you are not only sharing EXP around the party but also EVs! It means post game I cannot EV train more than 1 pokemon at the time, unless the both need speed or attack EVs etc. at the same time. I had to spend DAYS collecting EV reducing berries post-game per Pokemon in Sword in order to remove all the useless EVs picked up though the game, which was a absolute pain and delayed me being able to use the battle tower properly for weeks. I hate EXP-All with a passion and it still being on all the time really kills my interest in the game (also 1 use TMs returning sucks!)
 
They're not something to worry about, but if HP bars draining faster is high up on the list of improvements after 15 years (especially when the 3rd version of the game that came out just a couple years later largely fixed that already) and much better hardware, that's pretty sad.
I dont think anyone thought they were high improvement, it was expected from the gen 8 engine, but people just acted like it wasnt going to happen and i thought that was funny lol. It aint that deep chief it was a joke
 
Im surprised by this exp shitstorm, like we didnt knew about it from the beginning, when they said it would have QoL stuff from modern games it was obviously exp share and box-bag, it sucks but not something new. And this is Pokémon, the games arent hard useless you go out of your way to make them harder, you can always box half of your team to prevent exp gain from random trainers just like how you could not use items, ignore the cover legendary and not catch a strong ice shard user to not cheese Cynthia.
If anything, TM being a grind again is the real problem (but we are going to drop the game after the league and play showdown instead because no battle stop so whatever, that if you still want to buy this).
 
Thanks for comparing. :)

So Pokemon used get about 1/2 Exp and unused Pokemon get 1/4. That makes solo runs harder and would let the Bibarel with 4 HMs you never use in battle be somewhat usable useful in an emergency, if that mattered any more. This isn't bad enough to make me say it sucks, but it's bad enough to be kind of worrying. I'm also still optomistic because of the Level 19 Dustox gaining 10 and 25 Exp more Exp than the Level 22 Machop. Even if the scaling doesn't add up, I doubt it's outleveling Cynthia amounts of extra Exp.
Yeah at this point it's pretty obvious they're nudging people to using a full team and the number of people calling Exp. Share a dealbreaker (even if everyone who whined about it actually abstained from buying the game, which is obviously far from the case) is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of younger players who might just use the starter with 4 STAB moves and then give up once they run into a matchup they can't brute-force their way through and realize they might have to grind some other Pokemon up 30+ levels.

When someone uses a more balanced team of 6 Pokemon without focusing on an overleveled starter whose moveset they can easily customize depending on the matchup or 2-3 Pokemon that do the actual battling while the rest of the party is just there as HM slaves, I'm sure they have data indicating that it presents more opportunities for players to find Pokemon they become attached to to the point of wanting to buy more merchandise or future games.

Additionally, I'm sure there are even more players in the past who didn't have much of a problem beating the game without Exp. Share but then ran into a brick wall and were out in terms of future games when it turned out that all the Pokemon they spent hours training actually sucked and they'd have to either get a cheat device or spend much more time than they'd spent on beating the game itself in a boring breeding loop just to get the good ones. If the Exp. Share now means that simply beating the game is going to result in that many more level 60+ Pokemon, that along with stuff like mints and bottle caps makes getting into competitive play much easier for new players.

I dont think anyone thought they were high improvement, it was expected from the gen 8 engine, but people just acted like it wasnt going to happen and i thought that was funny lol. It aint that deep chief it was a joke
They objectively are high on the list of improvements when the promotional material is focused on stuff like 'Pokemon can follow you around now' or 'you can make Poffins again' whereas in the leadup to ORAS it was known for months that there would at least be new Mega Evolutions and different versions of the cover legendaries.

The phrases they are hammering the most in marketing these games are 'faithful remakes' and 'quality of life' which indicate that the only non-cosmetic differences between the originals and the remakes will just be stuff that makes completing the story mode or breeding Pokemon more convenient. That doesn’t seem to offer much for anyone who’s already played a Sinnoh game, especially when making it easier to obtain flawless Pokémon compared to Diamond/Pearl is offset by needing to transfer them to a different game to actually use them competitively.
 
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My main concern here is that if there's "technically not one use but the only way to get them multiple times is in the post game, making the option useless because whos gonna play this game after the credits roll" TMs. The decision is stupid but if they make all tms available in the normal game, even if a bit late, it won't be as stupid I guess.
If it's easy to replenish a la TRs in Sword and Shield, it won't be much of an issue.

Unless you are planning to constantly rotate more than 30 Pokémon, but that's my problem.
 
All I want for this game is for it to have two way communication with Home so I can transfer my old pokemon somewhere

...

man, we really turned into the Madden fandom haven't we? "I know the games are shitty but I sure hope the next one isn't as shitty"
Remember in gen 5 when we were dunking on the "genwunners" were taking things way too seriously over games for children?

How turntables have table turned...
 

Fusion Flare

LIVING IN A GODDAMN GARBAGE CAN???
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fwiw i found this clip which has 2 different wild battle themes (midi hell vs actual remaster)
the first battle theme is actually thetrainer battle theme and the second is the actual wild battle theme
I'm gonna be the devil's advocate here in that people did complain that infinite use TMs made the game's item management too easy.

Which I think its fucking stupid LOL being able to make more than one pokemon usable is like. Bare minimum. TRs still pisses me off and returning to expendable TMs does it too.
i thought trs were pretty cool when you considered how they revolved around max raids and the watts system, tbh.
 
I genuinely feel like the creators of these games are totally oblivious to what fans want.

Pokemon has ALWAYS been a series that has suffered from poor QoL choices and mechanic implementations. The IV/EV system, Hidden Power, antiquated mechanics, single-use TM's, HM's, etc. have always felt like straight up burdens to the player, detracting from the overall fun of the experience. I genuinely cannot comprehend why Pokemon games always seem to take 1 step forward and two steps backward, constantly undoing their own progress with erratic and insensible decisions. The Exp Share should have been an option, no questions asked. Why force that at the player? Single-use TMs are simply laughable and a big fuck you to the players. This worries me that they will continue to make poor decisions in the future.
 
It also makes it feel a bit... inconsistent? If you assume one-use TMs were kept to preserve the original, literally why do an entirely new area of catchable pokémon, revert the exp share, and add mobile PC?
Maybe I'm just stupid, but it feels like there's no rhyme or reason to the things that are considered necessary for an authentic remake vs what's ok to be added in.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I feel like one-use TMs isnt a symptom of overbearing faithfulness considering all the other tricks they've pulled. Why they did it this way will only be parsable once we see how they work in the final game or some sort of interview. Very strange decision but we don't got much context for it as of yet.

Off the cuff personal theory: Since SWSH is gonna remain the competitive hub, ILCA just wanted to experiment with the old ethos of TM management for the main story in a safe environment. Ice Beam or Earthquake shortages aren't as big a deal when the game they belong to isn't gonna be supported for official tournaments anyway
 
It also makes it feel a bit... inconsistent? If you assume one-use TMs were kept to preserve the original, literally why do an entirely new area of catchable pokémon, revert the exp share, and add mobile PC?
Maybe I'm just stupid, but it feels like there's no rhyme or reason to the things that are considered necessary for an authentic remake vs what's ok to be added in.
The two design choices of one time TM use vs. mandatory Exp. All are remarkably contradictory. The former is a relic of the past, stays faithful to the original, and adds to the "challenge" in some way. While the latter is a modern mechanic, not in the original, and detracts from the challenge.

Yet GF somehow thought it was a good idea to give us the former, which almost nobody asked for, instead of the latter which a huge majority asked to be optional. They really are a baffling company.
 

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