Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

Man even for me that's harsh. I do think this is in contention with LGPE as the worst remakes in the series from what I've seen so far.
LGPE get more hate than what it deserve, most of the complains i see are for the catching system but i think is a better chalange than what the other games have (in the regular games is only a challange when the mon has a low catch rate and can easly ko yours, most of the time you just spam balls), and is better looking than SWSH. Its biggest flaws are the starters being too overpowered (the special moves should come way later and most starters can solo their own games easly anyway) and the lack of abilities ruining most megas (what is even the point of Pinsir). They are fine as Yellow remakes and as a introduction for casuals.

I do think BDSP may end as the worst in the series but thats because, well, most pokemon games are mostly the same (and thats fine, the pokemon formula works), BDSP dont really seems to be adding much or doing anything special to be different from the other 20 or something games, and as remakes they have to be directly compared to the originals and their third version, and we know something like 80% of the game is the same as DP, with the underground being the most interesting change so far, but i still have to play it, and maybe there are more changes that could turn these games into something other than -those games we got while waiting for legends-.
 
Since BW2 GF has done nothing but sleep, and BDSP have put zero effort or ambition in trying to actually portray a game from Nintendo DS in a really faithful way to the Nintendo Switch.

But ey, the game isnt out yet.
Itll be Pokémon Insurgence content wise, but we dont know it yet.
Please dont say anything, dont complain.


These games are perfect ok? Very good. They arent attempting to reach the minimust, minimundum mininum. No. Its because they are faithful. Theyll have less content than games from GBA on the same franchise but whats the problem? Uh? Why you complaining? I cant stand it, please dont complain or ill destroy your life ok??? Ok????

You could literally play Pokémon Platinum, a game you bought for 35 dollars in like 2008 and youll objetively outcontent everyone playing BDSP, and if online NDS were still a thing you would have 0 reason to play BDSP apart from graphics, graphics that are appropiate for the Game Gear.

Ill share with you some key info about forums (this is universal, works in all forums). Ill share with you the most common and easy strategies to earn likes.

1. Make a joke.

2. Deeply elaborate on something.

3. Quote someone who is critizing something and make a post telling everyone how unbearable it is, then write something condescendant addressing that person and dont forget to include some falacies here and there, to make it seem like they are only complaining because they hate the franchise or they have grown up (remember, you have grown up and still love a ton of videogames, but not Pokémon), deflecting from the universal fact of game freak being lazy af in the past years.

3.1 This is the most advanced tech, but requires self sacrifice. Do the same as point 3, but insult the person. Say something like "i know ill be banned but i dont care" (this is vital, everyone has to know that you are sacrificing yourself for the greater good and dont give a shit about being banned), then proceed, "but you are a clown and a fkn idiot, a hater whose only purpose is to spite at gamefreaks work blablabla". Then finish the post with another "i dont care if i get banned".

_________________________________

Ill but the games, but you should really stop telling others what can or cant critizise. No one cares when someone says how much they love a game, but everyone seems to care when that person dislikes aspects of the game.

Forums are made to reunite different individuals with different opinions on any kind of topic, and some of you are trying to force an unique point of view upon everyone else. I dont care who dislikes a game I like, i may discuss with them, but ill never say to them that they should just not play or stop complaining. Its their opinion.
 
There's a new commercial up on the Italian Nintendo youtube channel really playing up the nostalgia factor.
This shows Candice using a L38 Snover matching her DP team and also Cyrus's intro pose.

View attachment 380929View attachment 380930
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EDIT: A bit of a reach but there might be a HP bar drain speed option or it's still related to raw HP, as the Pikachu using Thunderbolt killed the wild Floatzel in 8 frames, but Chimchar using Fire Spin only does a bit over half health in 14 frames.
Also the Cyrus battle being the first one could mean that Weavile is indeed in the first battle if the trailer used footage from this point as well.
who the actual fuck is still using a chimchar by that point in the game

Another nice detail is the bibarel is seen being surfed on in the other trailer. I wonder if overworld moves will be accessible without needing HM slaves like in gen 7.

EDIT: A bit of a reach but there might be a HP bar drain speed option or it's still related to raw HP, as the Pikachu using Thunderbolt killed the wild Floatzel in 8 frames, but Chimchar using Fire Spin only does a bit over half health in 14 frames.
Also the Cyrus battle being the first one could mean that Weavile is indeed in the first battle if the trailer used footage from this point as well.
Perhaps it scales with the text speed. slow/med/fast
 
who the actual fuck is still using a chimchar by that point in the game

Another nice detail is the bibarel is seen being surfed on in the other trailer. I wonder if overworld moves will be accessible without needing HM slaves like in gen 7.
You know, I've been using the fact that we haven't seen the Legends starters past their first evolutions as a bit of evidence there might be new evolutions...but maybe they just love pressing the B button
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Very strangely they have shown off Empoleon in trailers for this game and even Legends, but Infernape and Torterra have been completely absent and have not been shown off at all. Granted Empoleon was only shown off in this game through a Poketch appearance, but the other two have not been seen in marketing for this game in any capacity.

They seem to adamantly not want to show off Infernape or Torterra in particular while Empoleon has been soft-shown-off in shots that are easy to miss. I do wonder why they feel compelled to only show off Empoleon but explicitly conceal Infernape and Torterra from existence thus far.
 
Very strangely they have shown off Empoleon in trailers for this game and even Legends, but Infernape and Torterra have been completely absent and have not been shown off at all. Granted Empoleon was only shown off in this game through a Poketch appearance, but the other two have not been seen in marketing for this game in any capacity.

They seem to adamantly not want to show off Infernape or Torterra in particular while Empoleon has been soft-shown-off in shots that are easy to miss. I do wonder why they feel compelled to only show off Empoleon but explicitly conceal Infernape and Torterra from existence thus far.
The fact they're, uh, well i mean guess for lack of a better term hiding Infernape & Torterra just makes me feel Empoleon was also meant to be "hidden" and someone missed it in their footage.
Although funnily enough, I think we've seen Prinplup but not Monferno & Grotle?

how odd
 
Since BW2 GF has done nothing but sleep, and BDSP have put zero effort or ambition in trying to actually portray a game from Nintendo DS in a really faithful way to the Nintendo Switch.

But ey, the game isnt out yet.
Itll be Pokémon Insurgence content wise, but we dont know it yet.
Please dont say anything, dont complain.


These games are perfect ok? Very good. They arent attempting to reach the minimust, minimundum mininum. No. Its because they are faithful. Theyll have less content than games from GBA on the same franchise but whats the problem? Uh? Why you complaining? I cant stand it, please dont complain or ill destroy your life ok??? Ok????

You could literally play Pokémon Platinum, a game you bought for 35 dollars in like 2008 and youll objetively outcontent everyone playing BDSP, and if online NDS were still a thing you would have 0 reason to play BDSP apart from graphics, graphics that are appropiate for the Game Gear.

Ill share with you some key info about forums (this is universal, works in all forums). Ill share with you the most common and easy strategies to earn likes.

1. Make a joke.

2. Deeply elaborate on something.

3. Quote someone who is critizing something and make a post telling everyone how unbearable it is, then write something condescendant addressing that person and dont forget to include some falacies here and there, to make it seem like they are only complaining because they hate the franchise or they have grown up (remember, you have grown up and still love a ton of videogames, but not Pokémon), deflecting from the universal fact of game freak being lazy af in the past years.

3.1 This is the most advanced tech, but requires self sacrifice. Do the same as point 3, but insult the person. Say something like "i know ill be banned but i dont care" (this is vital, everyone has to know that you are sacrificing yourself for the greater good and dont give a shit about being banned), then proceed, "but you are a clown and a fkn idiot, a hater whose only purpose is to spite at gamefreaks work blablabla". Then finish the post with another "i dont care if i get banned".

_________________________________

Ill but the games, but you should really stop telling others what can or cant critizise. No one cares when someone says how much they love a game, but everyone seems to care when that person dislikes aspects of the game.
Its been a while since I've played Pokemon Insurgence, so IDK if its improved or not, but I don't think that's the best example to use. The game did have a lot of cool moments in the story, good music, cool locations, and an interesting concept in Delta Pokemon (which I think GF itself was inspired by for Alola forms), but the game was INSANELY grindy and had you fight against some near impossible mons and strategies (I remember that one boss with the Mega Beedrill being a HUGE pain in the ass). Its definetly a good game, but its something that is probably better for more hardcore players. It is also an open-source project, which makes it easier for players to give feedback on what they like and dislike, easier to get devs on board, and it doesn't matter nor harm the company as much if information is leaked (especially since the team is catering to a smaller audience). I would like Pokemon games to have as much content as Insurance, but I also understand if it doesn't since the game is made for a general audience and has a stricter deadline schedule (which I am indifferent on personally, though there are times where I am itching for a new Pokemon game like before SwSh came out).
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Like, unpopular as much as you want, but who cares if it's the same old rosters?
I do. Why? Because I'm a customer. And so is everyone else who is complaining.

GameFreak, the Pokemon Company, and Nintendo wants to sell us this product, it's their job to convince us this product is worth buying.

But, from what they have shown us, to many of us who had played the original DP, many who were eagerly awaiting the Sinnoh remakes seeing how well the remakes for the first 3 gens were like, many who had played Platinum which had made significant improvements to the Diamond & Pearl experience, this is a subpar product. They want to sell us what is essentially a 3D facelift of the original Diamond & Pearl games with some slight new additions, features, & mechanics which are mostly just background or likely a necessary forced change. And notably, none of these shown changes are the improvements done in Platinum.

"Then don't buy it!"

I wasn't. But it doesn't end there. Because these aren't the last games they're ever going to make a remake of, we still have other generations which are getting older and no doubt they'd want to think about ways to rerelease Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn again sometime in the future.

Right now, GF could possibly be setting a precedent; testing the waters. "Can we just do a 3D facelift of the original vanilla games, being as lazy as possible, and still make a ton of money"? And if that answers comes out as "yes", well, unless someone on the staff has an exciting idea for the remakes than ORAS could end up as the last remake with any honest effort put into updating the region to modern standards. And ORAS itself wasn't a perfect game, once again also using the initial games as a basis instead of the better Emerald. Heck, even the current gen games have started to show GF cutting corners with it.

I like Pokemon. I want to buy the games. But not if they're like this. Pokemon can do better. It should be doing better. But GF have gotten either too complacent or in a rut (or both) with the core series games but refuse to ease their grip on it (letting the Pokemon Company or Nintendo take the reins, which possibly could mean making new games with little involvement from them; no, these games don't count, Masuda is still in charge of them).

I don't recall GF or the company that handles this game announcing a roster change, the game clearly imples it's a DP remake and not a Plat remake, so why are several people pissed off the fact this game is not a Plat remake or doesn't include Plat features?
Because it's a simple thing to do. Why not use the Platinum teams? Why not use the Platinum dex? Why not go around and add in the Pokemon onto each route and wild location that Platinum added instead of putting them all in the Underground where we have to mess around with statues to change the environment?

Simple question.

How about another simple question, this time for you Worldie, Scorpio, and anyone else who has the problems with us criticizing the game: Why do you care? Why do you, who have decided you'll be getting the game, care that we are voicing what we see as problems with the game?

Is is because there's something about the game you like and want to discuss? Go right ahead! No one is stopping you. We'll all be happy to talk about something positive.

Are you worried our criticism will change your mind? If that's the concern, maybe that's something to look into.

Are you worried about GF, Pokemon Company, and Nintendo? They'll be fine. Are you worried about the 3rd party development team making the games? To be honest I am too, I have a feeling a lot of these baffling design decisions had been ordered by Masuda with possible backup from GF higher ups and they had no choice to do them. Sadly if that's the case I don't see them really coming out of this ahead: if the games are successful GF will take the credit, if it flops they'll blame it on the 3rd party developers. It's a lose-lose scenario GF purposely setup.

You too are customers and GF & Pokemon Company have shown you enough to convince you to buy the game. Great for you. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are convinced. But that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of a game that hasn't been released yet.

I wonder if I should give Garchomp Dragon Dance while I'm at it...
Does it need it?

post responds to post talking about the excessive complaining of posts. did i get it?


It seems to me the Piplup line is Gamefreak's "favorite" of the 3

Doesn't Piplup have it's own twitter account?
It has its own entire promotion. This was posted just a few days ago:

... WAIT! They're saying PIPLUP!? Why are they using Piplup's English name? The Piplup Promotion, or rather the Pochama Promotion, is a Japanese promotion, like maybe a few of the products from it made it to the English store but not any of the promotional material nor the videos they've been posting for it on the Japanese Youtube channel.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I do. Why? Because I'm a customer. And so is everyone else who is complaining.

GameFreak, the Pokemon Company, and Nintendo wants to sell us this product, it's their job to convince us this product is worth buying.

But, from what they have shown us, to many of us who had played the original DP, many who were eagerly awaiting the Sinnoh remakes seeing how well the remakes for the first 3 gens were like, many who had played Platinum which had made significant improvements to the Diamond & Pearl experience, this is a subpar product. They want to sell us what is essentially a 3D facelift of the original Diamond & Pearl games with some slight new additions, features, & mechanics which are mostly just background or likely a necessary forced change. And notably, none of these shown changes are the improvements done in Platinum.

"Then don't buy it!"

I wasn't. But it doesn't end there. Because these aren't the last games they're ever going to make a remake of, we still have other generations which are getting older and no doubt they'd want to think about ways to rerelease Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn again sometime in the future.

Right now, GF could possibly be setting a precedent; testing the waters. "Can we just do a 3D facelift of the original vanilla games, being as lazy as possible, and still make a ton of money"? And if that answers comes out as "yes", well, unless someone on the staff has an exciting idea for the remakes than ORAS could end up as the last remake with any honest effort put into updating the region to modern standards. And ORAS itself wasn't a perfect game, once again also using the initial games as a basis instead of the better Emerald. Heck, even the current gen games have started to show GF cutting corners with it.

I like Pokemon. I want to buy the games. But not if they're like this. Pokemon can do better. It should be doing better. But GF have gotten either too complacent or in a rut (or both) with the core series games but refuse to ease their grip on it (letting the Pokemon Company or Nintendo take the reins, which possibly could mean making new games with little involvement from them; no, these games don't count, Masuda is still in charge of them).



Because it's a simple thing to do. Why not use the Platinum teams? Why not use the Platinum dex? Why not go around and add in the Pokemon onto each route and wild location that Platinum added instead of putting them all in the Underground where we have to mess around with statues to change the environment?

Simple question.

How about another simple question, this time for you Worldie, Scorpio, and anyone else who has the problems with us criticizing the game: Why do you care? Why do you, who have decided you'll be getting the game, care that we are voicing what we see as problems with the game?

Is is because there's something about the game you like and want to discuss? Go right ahead! No one is stopping you. We'll all be happy to talk about something positive.

Are you worried our criticism will change your mind? If that's the concern, maybe that's something to look into.

Are you worried about GF, Pokemon Company, and Nintendo? They'll be fine. Are you worried about the 3rd party development team making the games? To be honest I am too, I have a feeling a lot of these baffling design decisions had been ordered by Masuda with possible backup from GF higher ups and they had no choice to do them. Sadly if that's the case I don't see them really coming out of this ahead: if the games are successful GF will take the credit, if it flops they'll blame it on the 3rd party developers. It's a lose-lose scenario GF purposely setup.

You too are customers and GF & Pokemon Company have shown you enough to convince you to buy the game. Great for you. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are convinced. But that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of a game that hasn't been released yet.



Does it need it?






It has its own entire promotion. This was posted just a few days ago:

... WAIT! They're saying PIPLUP!? Why are they using Piplup's English name? The Piplup Promotion, or rather the Pochama Promotion, is a Japanese promotion, like maybe a few of the products from it made it to the English store but not any of the promotional material nor the videos they've been posting for it on the Japanese Youtube channel.
Pokémon mainline games will still sell well, especially because how huge the fanbase is.

The only way a Pokémon mainline game makes bad sales by Pokémon standards is releases way too frequent between mainline games on a single console, and there is a worry that might come true on the Switch system.

It’s unlikely that’s an inevitability considering the massive problems within the fanbase itself, so safe to say, it’s the even bigger fault for the fanbase for not agreeing with the Pokémon games deserving better quality. Especially since countless fans will never consider any future Pokémon good as long as National Dex will be absent.
 
I mean I don't think it was asking too much for them to use Platinum as the base instead of DP. The gap in quality between Platinum and DP is absurd. That's not me being overly pessimistic, jaded or whatever. It's just a flat out truth. DP does some of the sprite work better than Platinum. And that's literally it. You're comparing one of the best games in the franchise to one of the worst. It's just a foolish decision on the part of GF, ILCA or whoever's in charge.

Even RS got something big right that Emerald didn't by making Steven champion instead of Wallace. So it wasn't a total loss for ORAS to use RS as the base instead (though overall still a loss). BDSP choosing DP over Platinum is just an objectively awful design decision.

Others can feel free to disagree, but I went into this release with some hope and actually rooting for this game to succeed. So I wouldn't say I've been "negative" from the start. But as information has slowly unveiled itself, that hope has almost completely dissipated. At this point I'm just viewing this game as comedic relief for how badly they're botching it.
 
OK so I read the last couple pages and aside from all the arguing, I have to ask that at some point wasn't it proven that expanded dex was gonna be the norm even above the underground due to a trainer sending out a Porygon-Z or something? The Porygon family didn't exist in DP, after all. Perhaps it was an... underground trainer, if they exist. Pretty sure we've never seen one.

Candice using a Snover is strange as hell, but then Cyrus uses a Weavile in a battle where previously it was a Sneasel, right? So a boss has had an edit made to his team to make it stronger, and Candice has an edit to make it weaker mon-wise, but now she uses Blizzard on Abomasnow so the sets are stronger. Might even imply Candice gives the Blizzard TM out, since I'm sure the reason it only had Avalanche before is because the AI would always use Blizzard if it had both Blizzard and Avalanche.

Are both sides not just confirmation biasing their own side and missing that there's evidence that goes both ways, and since there's evidence that goes both ways it means both sides are wrong? Seems like Gym Leaders are probably DP teams, but Cyrus can have a team in neither DP nor Pt. We don't know the policy on E4 and Champion, and it's fine for them to be treated differently (e.g. Phoebe had her ace Dusclops evolved into Dusknoir and Drake replaced his Shelgon with a Kingdra in ORAS; no gym leaders had such treatment) and if they're willing to modify Cyrus it seems likely they would modify the E4 and Champion as well.
 
OK so I read the last couple pages and aside from all the arguing, I have to ask that at some point wasn't it proven that expanded dex was gonna be the norm even above the underground due to a trainer sending out a Porygon-Z or something? The Porygon family didn't exist in DP, after all. Perhaps it was an... underground trainer, if they exist. Pretty sure we've never seen one.
I am pretty sure the only trainers seen using Porygon-Z was likely us

Candice using a Snover is strange as hell, but then Cyrus uses a Weavile in a battle where previously it was a Sneasel, right?
The part in the latest trailer (that is, the one that also showed off his subordinates) showed Weavile but there's no indication that fight was his 3-trainer fight (likewise we don't know which of their respective fights Mars, Jupiter & Saturn are shown but it's a bit irrelevant for them since they always have their aces).
The fight in the commercial is his first fight, but he didn't send out any Pokemon.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Just a quick note, but before we delve into anything, I think it's important to remember the difference between criticism and complaining, because "criticism" and "complaints" are two very different things. Criticism puts focus on the thing being criticized. In other words, "here is what is wrong with this thing or person". Complaining puts focus on the person doing the complaining. "I don't like/I hate this, etc.". Criticism of a product is completely fine, but constant whining/complaining can come off as very much suffocating/asphyxiating, as it puts more focus on you rather than the product itself that you intend to criticize. Sad as it is, it's clear many people cannot distinguish the difference between criticism and complaining and it shows. I don't mean to police how people talk about these games, but do remember that neutral and objective criticism differs from constant complaining and that it's important to remember that if you intend to criticize something, do not let it be drowned in constant whining. The BBND folks and many people on Twitter, Reddit, and other social media folk fall into the "constant whining" category which drowns out many of the genuine criticisms people can have about this series, which are many.

With all that said though, having spent years in many Internet communities surrounding games, animation, and whatnot, and especially with this series, I have found that especially with a series as long running and vast as this one the audience is so vast that there will always be people who value different things about a franchise like this, and as such, opinions will always differ amongst many crowds of people considering the many kinds of people a series like this draws in. As such, there will always be disagreements about what is and isn't good about individual entries in a series like Pokemon. If you asked what could be done better about Pokemon, people will always have different, if not outright dissonant, ideas about what could be done, because people's perceptions about what they want from a Pokemon game will always differ. What some may consider problems with a game like this or even the likes of Let's Go or SwSh may end up being something someone else doesn't care about, or maybe even likes. I know a few people who unironically like the DP Gym Leader/E4 rosters (I am not kidding!). When you have a franchise that has persisted for 20+ years, has attracted millions of fans over such an extended period of time, and has people from several different age groups who enjoy the franchise there will always be disagreements on various aspects of a franchise. It's impossible to please everyone at this point with any singular game, because people will always disagree on one thing or another. Do I wish the games could be "better"? Yeah. But sadly *how* they could be done better is a different idea for everyone, it's the curse of Pokemon becoming too successful for its own good. Especially with such a massive audience, there's a lot of noise, bad ideas, and dissonance floating around.

It's important to know that yes, you can have an opinion, but also remember that you shouldn't expect everyone to agree with you. Please keep this in mind when discussing anything, not just with Pokemon, but with any topic in general.

Worldie, I do think you have a point though. While I still have my personal concerns for the game, I'll wait before I draw any conclusions, and if reviews confirm anything I find worth criticizing, I'll speak up about it...once the game comes out. Of course, in a respectful way, such as "Here's what BDSP ultimately did wrong". Speaking as someone who does try to see both the merits and the flaws of everything I enjoy, I'll draw my own conclusions on this game. But in the end, I'll have to wait for the game to come out proper and for reviews to come out analyzing the game to see what this game is. And not just BDSP for that matter. Legends: Arceus too. I did the same with SwSh in the past. In the end, I'll just let the game speak for itself first, then I'll get the fuller picture of what is and isn't good about the game, and possibly be able to give a clearer, more objective criticism about the game.

In the end, it's on me to draw my own conclusions about the game when it comes out. Generally my approach to any game before its release is "Don't assume anything" and of course, it's always important not to set your expectations too high for anything and keep optimism for any game cautious, because you never know how good or bad a game it'll be. In other words, "let the game speak for itself".

I mean I don't think it was asking too much for them to use Platinum as the base instead of DP. The gap in quality between Platinum and DP is absurd. That's not me being overly pessimistic, jaded or whatever. It's just a flat out truth. DP does some of the sprite work better than Platinum. And that's literally it. You're comparing one of the best games in the franchise to one of the worst. It's just a foolish decision on the part of GF, ILCA or whoever's in charge.
Yeeeah, it's a shame. ORAS using RS was fine since Ruby and Sapphire were already strong games on their own, Emerald was just icing atop a great cake. Same with HGSS using GS, since the differences between GS and Crystal were fairly small anyway.

But Platinum is just miles ahead of DP as it seriously polished many of DP's flaws to a T. DP is an okay game on its own so BDSP will probably be okay on that merit, especially for the newer kids, but Platinum was just on another level, especially since it had the job of fixing a flawed game (which it succeeded in doing), something Emerald didn't (Emerald was just adding icing on an already great cake, RS were seriously just excellent out the gate).

In the end I'm just like "ohhhh well". I already had apprehensions about it being more like DP than Platinum in the first place so I'm not too disappointed or enraged by the recent unveiling of stuff but it is indeed a shame. If I buy it I'll probably still enjoy it since Diamond was still one of the most formative Pokemon games for me ever and I enjoyed it a lot back then, but yeah, my thoughts on the design decisions at the end of the day are just "Alas".
 
But Platinum is just miles ahead of DP as it seriously polished many of DP's flaws to a T. DP is an okay game on its own so BDSP will probably be okay on that merit, especially for the newer kids, but Platinum was just on another level, especially since it had the job of fixing a flawed game (which it succeeded in doing), something Emerald didn't (Emerald was just adding icing on an already great cake, RS were seriously just excellent out the gate).
Exactly. It would have taken an almost equal amount of effort to slap a new coat of paint on Platinum instead of DP and just slightly modify the Spear Pillar events to account for the respective box legendaries. That would result in vastly improved games from the ones we're seeing. It really wasn't an outlandish expectation. So the jadedness expressed by some including myself might stem from the fact that even our completely reasonable expectations were not met.

Having said that, I genuinely hope people find enjoyment out of this game. I'm just not even considering buying it. I remember when I heard about the Exp. All and just thinking "fuck this shit".
 
Not really. But it didn't need a Mega either.
At the very least it's Mega made it flat out worse than regular Chomp, compared to others Megas making already good Pokemon way overpowered. Fun stuff for casual playthroughs and not fucking over competitive...or it would be if you could actually use Megas in XY before post game.

Dragon Dance Garchomp could probably be Uber worthy. Compared to other Dancers like Dragonite and Salamence it's faster and has better stab options (Dragonite went 2 gens with no useful STAB once Fairies were added)
 
Yeeeah, it's a shame. ORAS using RS was fine since Ruby and Sapphire were already strong games on their own, Emerald was just icing atop a great cake. Same with HGSS using GS, since the differences between GS and Crystal were fairly small anyway.

But Platinum is just miles ahead of DP as it seriously polished many of DP's flaws to a T.
Massive speed issues notwithstanding (which Platinum also partially shares, but still shares enough to also be borderline unplayable without fast-forward), I do not think DP is that behind Platinum in terms of quality...
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Massive speed issues notwithstanding (which Platinum also partially shares), I do not think DP is that behind Platinum in terms of quality...
DP's achilles heel was and forever will be the wretched Pokemon selection due to the restricted dex. Platinum solved that, and BDSP solved it even harder by going "fuck it, have a buncha shit not even in the Platinum dex via Underground". By those tokens, both of these games are immediately 500x better.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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DP's achilles heel was and forever will be the wretched Pokemon selection due to the restricted dex. Platinum solved that, and BDSP solved it even harder by going "fuck it, have a buncha shit not even in the Platinum dex via Underground". By those tokens, both of these games are immediately 500x better.
Yeah, as much as BDSP has quite a few disadvantages compared to Platinum, the increased variety and Box Link allowing me to rotate my team at any time will be things I will enjoy when I do end up playing it. And DP was a pretty good foundation to build on so by all accounts it'll be a fun game imo. I'll always prefer Platinum personally but BDSP isn't without its good points and will certainly be a more playable version of DP. Not having the glaring technical issues of DP or the ridiculous HM problem is also nice. It's still not going to be as good as Platinum, as much as I wish it could've been, but I suppose there will be some merit for those who do want to play it in the end.

No matter if you prefer Platinum or if you like BDSP more, one thing is certain though:



Begone with you, original Diamond and Pearl!
 

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