Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl - Release 19th Nov 2021

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I'm sorry, but what has happened to this thread? Why is forced EXP All the thing that suddenly made everyone go full doomer???

Like sure it's undoubtedly really annoying, and having the toggle would be much better, and it's frustrating that they refuse to allow such a simple option. Makes sense, I agree. But worse than OG DP? Please people, just stop the cap, good lord
 

The Mind Electric

Calming if you look at it right.
The thing is, disabling Exp. Share does not make the game more difficult. Taking more time does not make it harder...
I understand what you're getting at but this is objectively incorrect. If a task takes more time and energy to do, it is harder. Getting rid of the EXP. Share doesn't necessarily make you think any harder about the fights, which is why I don't bother, but they're objectively more difficult.

EDIT:
I'm sorry, but what has happened to this thread? Why is forced EXP All the thing that suddenly made everyone go full doomer???

Like sure it's undoubtedly really annoying, and having the toggle would be much better, and it's frustrating that they refuse to allow such a simple option. Makes sense, I agree. But worse than OG DP? Please people, just stop the cap, good lord
I'm full doomer about all the other shit, personally.
 

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
I don't care that much about EXP. Share but why? Who the fuck asked for it to be mandatory? Why do they keep doing this?
I do not like being super over leveled. It feels bad, for me, and the extra levels absolutely do matter at various points in the game.

The appeal of the old system was: I could keep it off and have a reasonable enough challenge since the enemies were generally some levels above me or at least about on my level as equals. If I felt I was ever behind, I could throw it on for a route or so and be just right. I got significantly more enjoyment out of XY than my friends did because of this, and the occasional level spike got me sweating a little in the various games, which was novel.
Meanwhile, folks who don't care about that can leave it on and enjoy it to their hearts content. Or they can be like siggu and use it as an excuse to get a bunch of party members
It's great for everyone! Grinding is easier if you'd like it (especially with all the other ways to pump up exp), it offers extra play styles, wonderful!

Making it permanently on just sucks for people like me, and it is such a supremely easy thing to offer an option.
Because Musada, or more likely a higher-up, mandated it and believed that children or newcomers could somehow still not beat the game if they made it optional and to encourage swapping parties with portable PC.

In practice, all it does is to force players to swap parties just because they ended up overleveled their Pokémon, and they adjusted the level consistency poorly to take the Exp. All in consideration. And yet…
The thing is, disabling Exp. Share does not make the game more difficult. Taking more time does not make it harder...
As you pointed out, just the levels alone doesn’t make a hard game.

I understand what you're getting at but this is objectively incorrect. If a task takes more time and energy to do, it is harder. Getting rid of the EXP. Share doesn't necessarily make you think any harder about the fights, which is why I don't bother, but they're objectively more difficult.
Except having to fight trainers with such suddenly high level spikes only makes artificial difficulty as we’ve seen in too many fangames to name. High level alone may be difficult, but not in a fun way.

This needs to be firmly reminded: If they can’t make a Pokémon game difficult, they should focus on making it fun. Make each Gym Leader to have a strategy gimmick - not something RNG cause those are another kind of artifical difficulty for a reason - to at least stand out and make the player to think a bit differently to beat them.
 
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Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
great.

just FUCKING AMAZING.
Just when i thought 'hey maybe the faithfulness is purely graphical in the sense"
oh no fuck you, single use tms are back baby, even though nobody fucking wanted them. absolutely fucking horrendous.
i don't care that "you can get more of them" because we could get more of them in regular dpp, where? oh yknow just the FUCKING POSTGAME.
It's not even like SWSH where TRs were a dime a dozen thanks to the watts system and max raids, you just...why??? why do we regress overall good choices to keep this "faithful" marketing?
seriously, i know that people in this thread are screeching at the exp. share but WHY the TMs??!!
 
The thing is, disabling Exp. Share does not make the game more difficult. Taking more time does not make it harder...
It's great how people just assume that we're spending all this time grinding when we have it off and not just, like, dealing with the level curve as it happens

Like we're not all reaching a slight bump and sighing as we go grind out another 2-3 levels on every Pokemon one at a time. I'm just going through the game normally, swapping my lead Pokemon around as needed, trying to prioritize exp to the other members during trainer fights if I dont need something done with then & there. I see the levels rising and that means I have to deal with more damage and dealing less of it and needing to figure out how to get around that. Maybe it's a slightly fun battle that uses more of my Pokemon, maybe I get to use certain moves more, maybe I decide to use more items or, yeah, maybe I figure that okay this level curve is too steep i gotta grind a little bit. And then if that last part happens in gens 6 or 7 I flip on the exp share, do a couple battles and I'm usually on a better playing field in a quarter of the time in prior generations.

If you, personally, did not play like that's fine. You either didn't like the level curve or felt you had to grind a lot and grinding can take a lot of time. Lots of reasons! Everyone has different ways they enjoy playing the game and more options like this, that you can opt in & out of at your leisure, are fine because of that.



So it's honestly kind of insulting to think that the only thing we care about is seeing 10 levels to grind and then love spending an hour doing so.
 
i don't get this argument of the exp share "just saving time", at all, it's straight up wrong. the exp share will make your team of 6 be like level 50 by fantina, if you're not using exp all you can actually not be super overleveled, it's not saving time, it absolutely is altering the difficulty of the game because with exp. all you don't have the option to stay on the actual level curve the games were designed for, without resorting to actively avoiding trainers or swapping your team around in order to mitigate exp gain. let's use an analogy here. i wanna go to "a" city which is 100 kilometers away, and there are two trains, the "a" train which goes to "a" city in one hour, and the "b" train which goes to "b" city in also one hour, but "b" city is 200 kilometers away. you might say that "b" train is always faster, which is true! but if "b" train literally doesn't stop at "a" city, then i wanna have the option to take the "a" train (does anyone get the reference? :D). does this make sense?

i wouldn't be buying this game in the first place, firstly because i don't have a switch, secondly because it really doesn't offer anything new for me to consider playing it over platinum, but, for me, exp share being un-turn-offable absolutely ruins the game! it makes no sense not to have that option when the gen 6 and 7 games had it, and when it literally doesn't cost anyone anything to just have that option in there.

im not being a pessimist or hating just for the sake of it, it's legitimately disappointing to have the diamond and pearl remakes i was so looking forward to, be absolutely trashed with stuff like this :| but i digress, it's fine, i can keep playing platinum and shut up, but that just doesn't mean that having exp. share always on is better for anyone, at all, it's just objectively worse to limit the players' options like this for literally no good reason. i don't understand why people defend having the exp. share being forced on at all...

also, to anyone talking about the level difference, for one, the exp share won't get your team around the level curve of the game, it will get you way ahead, but even then, going into battles underleveled on purpose is artificially increasing the difficulty, sure, but what the hell is wrong with that? if someone wants to play underleveled because it's harder and more fun for them, what the hell is wrong with that, i don't get it... being underleveled can absolutely add more strategy and fun into things, if you're a few level lowers your crobat can't just ohko all of gardenia's team in one blow, it can definitely lead to interesting battles and make things more challenging, not just in the numbers, but in having you plan out different strategies you wouldn't otherwise.
 
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But worse than OG DP? Please people, just stop the cap, good lord
Alright, I might have gone a bit over board. But still, on the spectrum of bad/good I think this game will fall much closer to DP than Platinum, which is shocking considering how much hope there was for this game.

And echoing above, I think some people are missing the point on Exp. All. In Platinum with a full team of six, you didn't even have to grind in order to beat the game. Or use Rare Candies or rematch trainers. All you had to do was battle all the possible trainers and you were sufficiently levelled to take on the bosses. And those fights were perfectly difficult without being insurmountable to leave the player feeling challenged and accomplished once finished.

With Exp. All unless you use a rotating team or actively skip trainers, you WILL over level Cynthia in all likelihood. Which ruins maybe the most challenging fight in the series by removing any need for planning or strategy.

The point is, there was a way to play Pokémon games in the past in such a way to make them at least relatively challenging (Set mode, no grinding, no healing in battle). But that play style no longer works to keep these games challenging given the way GF continues to nerf its difficulty, completely unnecessarily.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Personally I don't mind exp share (in my playthrough of Shield I never felt overleveled at any point (regardless it should still be an option)) so I'm still going to play BDSP, but the one use TMs are going to be a pain in the ass

It's just so interesting how in one fell swoop they instantly angered a lot of the people they managed to win over after the first trailer
Seconding the Exp Share stuff. Not only did I never feel overleveled but my team was probably getting even more EXP from each opponent because of how much I switched and I did a little grinding just to raise a Shiny Rookidee from Route 2 I found after the 8th Gym to make it a usable level.

I know I'm going to be hated for saying this, but Forced Exp Share isn't too bad if the game is balanced around it. It wouldn't be half as hated if Gen 6 hadn't screwed it up when they changed it from held item to key item.


I'm also optimistic about reusable TMs (because I'm way too optimistic and/or hungry for angry arguments) if you really can get all of them multiple times, even if most are just post game. I'm okay with breakable TMs for in game and having to think carefully about who to use them on, but they were also practically unusable because I had to save them for Pokemon I'd in the post game like my Rayquaza from Emerald.

One funny thing breakable TMs lead to was giving my Latios a Choice Scarf and spamming Recover so I could beat a Shedinja in the Battle Hall instead of using a Shadow Ball TM. (There was Shedinja litteraly every time I picked Ghost.) If TMs were reusable, I wouldn't have needed to do that.
It'd be funny if the final game did use 12 space statue placement (or that it varies room to room or can be upgraded but shhh) and that was the final trainer theme, though.
If that's the final theme, I might have a deal breaker other than Flint having just Rapidash and Infernape. I might even welcome Flint being a joke and join the haters saying everything in these games sucks. (I know I mention Flint every other post, but I refuse to let Game Freak live this down until they show they're not doing it again. If they do it again, you will never live this down Game Freak! NEVER!)
 
Honestly, experience sharing should be able to be toggled in the Options menu, much like how one can toggle between the Set / Switch battle styles.

Unlike the other settings in the Options menu, changing the battle style directly affects how the game is played. The Switch battle style gives the player an advantage that otherwise isn't there, quite like how it is with experience sharing on.
 
I'm sorry, but what has happened to this thread? Why is forced EXP All the thing that suddenly made everyone go full doomer???

Like sure it's undoubtedly really annoying, and having the toggle would be much better, and it's frustrating that they refuse to allow such a simple option. Makes sense, I agree. But worse than OG DP? Please people, just stop the cap, good lord
To me, this isn't a sudden change of opinion. There are three things I was looking to go how I would prefer, and the info has gone from soft deconfirm/soft deconfirm/unknown to soft deconfirm/soft deconfirm/hard deconfirm. In the absence of a Frontier or massively expanded dex (i.e. noticably more than existed in gen 4), it is not an exaggeration to state that I am more likely going to be replaying OG DP than playing this (since if I'm bored, I'll have an OG DP cartridge around, while I likely wouldn't have immidiate access to the remake).
 
One thing the latest footage made clear to me is that I really appreciate the UI aesthetic changes that have come with each gen. I personally don't think the 'updated' gen 4 UI looks appealing. It's not nostalgic tto me, just outdated.

It's funny though that they leaned into the nostalgia on the UI but still replaced the sprites with colosseum-looking 3D models.
 
Strictly adhering to the Diamond & Pearl pokedex but also throwing the 340 some odd pokemon into the underground is such a weird choice.
Like I guess it's nice I can just grab an Onix or Scyther out of the underground even early on but also why not just....

Truly this series is inscrutable
I don't know if I'm understanding the new Underground correctly, but is it basically just Gens 1 - 3 Pokémon available Underground at any time? If so, that doesn't really address the problem with the original DP dex which was nerfing its own region's Pokémon. I think there was a post on OI about the breakdown of each regional dex and DP's dex only had a woeful 75% of Sinnoh mons available, due to many of the cross gen evo's being locked into post game.

That is the main problem with BDSP not sticking with Platinum's dex. The new Underground doesn't really address the core issue. This isn't even mentioning Platinum's vastly superior boss rosters.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I don't know if I'm understanding the new Underground correctly, but is it basically just Gens 1 - 3 Pokémon available Underground at any time? If so, that doesn't really address the problem with the original DP dex which was nerfing its own region's Pokémon. I think there was a post on OI about the breakdown of each regional dex and DP's dex only had a woeful 75% of its dex available, due to many of the cross gen evo's being locked into post game.

That is the main problem with BDSP not sticking with Platinum's dex. The new Underground doesn't really address the core issue. This isn't even mentioning Platinum's vastly superior boss rosters.
Nah, the Gen 4 evo lines are in the Grand Underground too. Dunno if that'll be the only way to get them, but they are certainly there (e.g. we saw Magby at one point). They've also just had like, 40000 different shots of the player character using the Platinum dex evos out in the field, so they aren't that dumb. Never would've been.

I also don't think there's any need to give up hope on Platinum boss teams. I have a hard time believing they'd sign off on Flint's DP squad in 2021
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

On to new Horizons!
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I'm guessing if you catch a non DP Dex mon in the Hideaways before you officially obtain the full Gen 1-4 Dex they will just be treated as "foreign Pokemon" and you don't see dex entries for them? I really do wonder how the Pokedex itself is gonna function in that case.
 

CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
Unless the xp formula is changed in some way it's going to be very hard to not be grossly over leveled.
I'm willing to bet they changed the exp gain slightly. I mean, they're not that incompetent, right? Oh, right. Game Freak. Okay, I'm not taking bets, but one of the reviews showed Exp gained after a Pokemon was KOed. Can someone check to see if it's different than how much exp it gave in Gen 4? If it's about the same, I'll admit it sucks.

I also don't think there's any need to give up hope on Platinum boss teams. I have a hard time believing they'd sign off on Flint's DP squad in 2021
I don't have a hard time believing it. They want to be faithful, but if they decide to be too faithful...
 
I don't know if I'm understanding the new Underground correctly, but is it basically just Gens 1 - 3 Pokémon available Underground at any time? If so, that doesn't really address the problem with the original DP dex which was nerfing its own region's Pokémon. I think there was a post on OI about the breakdown of each regional dex and DP's dex only had a woeful 75% of its dex available, due to many of the cross gen evo's being locked into post game.

That is the main problem with BDSP not sticking with Platinum's dex. The new Underground doesn't really address the core issue. This isn't even mentioning Platinum's vastly superior boss rosters.
Though the full extent of availability obviously until the games are in hand, we've seen many Pokemon available in it including gen 4 Pokemon lines both in the dex (Munchlax....hello) and "out" of the dex

There's a magby, as an example


Also I believe that post you're talking about is by me :V
 
I also don't think there's any need to give up hope on Platinum boss teams. I have a hard time believing they'd sign off on Flint's DP squad in 2021
After today's reveal, I literally have zero confidence that they won't do this.

Also I believe that post you're talking about is by me :V
You're right lol. Here it is as reference to my earlier post. 76% but my point still stands.
 
I'm willing to bet they changed the exp gain slightly. I mean, they're not that incompetent, right? Oh, right. Game Freak. Okay, I'm not taking bets, but one of the reviews showed Exp gained after a Pokemon was KOed. Can someone check to see if it's different than how much exp it gave in Gen 4? If it's about the same, I'll admit it sucks.
I haven't confirmed it, but I'm pretty sure this is using Gen 8 EXP yields (changed for about every mon in Gen 5) and the modern scaling formula.
Comparing directly to old EXP calculators, technically you should be getting less EXP on actual participants than the original games, basing on Staravia being the sole fighter and just this example so far, where everyone is being scaled down from the level advantage. You can double the other exp amounts to see how much they would gain normally.
1634179015804.png
1634179021624.png

1634179076601.png
1634179089688.png


Comparing to actual video results, it seems this is off by 1 but still about what's expected.
1634179223970.png
1634179237898.png


Collating different information sources here.
https://www.vooks.net/preview-pokemon-brilliant-diamond-and-shining-pearl/
This is the article where a lot of details are being cited from, like the TMs being replenishable. It also mentions trainers give more money than the originals, and since they mention trainer levels are the same I assume they're directly comparing the data. Apparently it seems you can still press A as usual to use a HM move but with the classic pokemon animation every time, or you can use the poketch to use it with no animation which is an interesting choice.

From r/pokeleaks:
1634178651489.png

This affection/happiness related message seems to be back. Honestly I don't mind this either but with all the difficulty talk recently, I think SWSH did it pretty well with forcing you to actually engage in the camp to unlock happiness beyond a certain point and still having happiness evos available before that, so hopefully they follow that route.
 
I dont even like dppt and theres a 99% chance i wont like this game, I just think acting like hp bars are something to worry about when they havent been a problem for over 10 years is extremely funny

Also this made me realize bw is more than 10 years old what the fuck
They're not something to worry about, but if HP bars draining faster is high up on the list of improvements after 15 years (especially when the 3rd version of the game that came out just a couple years later largely fixed that already) and much better hardware, that's pretty sad.

This is pretty much par for the course with the lead-up to these games, where none of the things they've definitively confirmed are damning on their own but the lack of things that would compel someone who already has D/P/Pt and/or could just trade for the new mons on Sw/Sh or play on Showdown to get these games tells enough of a story.

I'll admit I wasn't as tapped in to the pre-release hype back then, but I would put B2/W2 as the last Pokemon games that offered a positive surprise in terms of including features you didn't expect; even if something like Challenge Mode or Black Tower/White Treehollow weren't your favorite parts of the game, at least they tried to do something different as opposed to gradually eliminating stuff that was already implemented in previous games just so they could try some half-assed 3-D models with an overmatched dev team or put in more Tamagotchi simulator elements.

With BDSP, I don't know how you could seriously tell yourself that any new revelations between now and release day are more likely to be positive than negative; the chances of Flint having the same goofy lineup or there being no way to use non-Sinnoh dex Pokémon even after completing the story mode are just as likely, if not more so, than there being a Battle Frontier or Distortion World.
 
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CTNC

Doesn't know how to attack
I haven't confirmed it, but I'm pretty sure this is using Gen 8 EXP yields (changed for about every mon in Gen 5) and the modern scaling formula.
Comparing directly to old EXP calculators, technically you should be getting less EXP on actual participants than the original games, basing on Staravia being the sole fighter and just this example so far, where everyone is being scaled down from the level advantage. You can double the other exp amounts to see how much they would gain normally.
View attachment 377469View attachment 377470
View attachment 377471View attachment 377472

Comparing to actual video results, it seems this is off by 1 but still about what's expected.
View attachment 377473View attachment 377474
Thanks for comparing. :)

So Pokemon used get about 1/2 Exp and unused Pokemon get 1/4. That makes solo runs harder and would let the Bibarel with 4 HMs you never use in battle be somewhat usable useful in an emergency, if that mattered any more. This isn't bad enough to make me say it sucks, but it's bad enough to be kind of worrying. I'm also still optomistic because of the Level 19 Dustox gaining 10 and 25 Exp more Exp than the Level 22 Machop. Even if the scaling doesn't add up, I doubt it's outleveling Cynthia amounts of extra Exp.

I can't help but feel like I'm being way too optimistic about this. Bring on Flint's team so everyone can tell me "I told you so" about the game sucking! (Or let me say I told you so if it's Platinum's Team.)
 

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