And then we gotta wonder what the quality/quantity of the first piece of news will actually be:
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Sticky Pokemon Direct - 6th June Discussion - Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon
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And then we gotta wonder what the quality/quantity of the first piece of news will actually be:
I'm pretty certain that they're not going to say much. I mean, remember SM and ORAS? Those were filled to the brim, and considering the leaks and the sort that in tandem with the official news pretty much had the entire game ruined by the time that it came out, people got pretty pissed. I think there were enough of those people for GF and TPC to be more conservative this time around. I'd say it'd be about 2-3 more weeks until we get anything, but if it's more than that I'm gonna be just as upset as you are right now, if not more so.
The VGC ruleset for next year has been announced. What's the deal with still using SM and the Alola Pokedex? It seems to suggest that USUM will barely change anything and that they don't want to force anyone to buy them...
Sticking to the same 300 Pokemon is odd regardless of USUM.
Sticking to the same 300 Pokemon is odd regardless of USUM.
Didn't XY continued to get used for a bit even after ORAS came out? I remember the same confusion pre-ORAS release then as well.
XY were used in late 2014. Here the wording is about 2018:
They have specific 2018 dates and everything. Compare that to:
Where are you finding this? Because Play! Pokemon has nothing about VGC 2018, at least from what I've been able to find.
I'd expect 2018 to resemble 2015 (NatDex minus box legends or mythicals), but it worked in 2015 because ORAS ensured that every mon in the Dex could be caught in Generation VI--especially with the Mirage Spots, which (to the delight of some and the chagrin of others) allowed the capture of Legendaries. We've no such indication about USUM for Gen VII, and that might be something people--not just competitive players and streamers, but anybody who wants an Alolan-caught (insert any Pokemon not available in Alola right now)--want to know.
I'd expect 2018 to resemble 2015 (NatDex minus box legends or mythicals), but it worked in 2015 because ORAS ensured that every mon in the Dex could be caught in Generation VI--especially with the Mirage Spots, which (to the delight of some and the chagrin of others) allowed the capture of Legendaries. We've no such indication about USUM for Gen VII, and that might be something people--not just competitive players and streamers, but anybody who wants an Alolan-caught (insert any Pokemon not available in Alola right now)--want to know.
I don't see anything about which Pokemon are allowed, though, so it could use the National Pokedex as far as we know.
Still, it's really weird that it only says Sun and Moon. Unless, it's getting a rewrite when Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon come out...
http://assets.pokemon.com//assets/c...g-rules-formats-and-penalty-guidelines-en.pdf
And there is no reason for the current ruleset to be misleading when we already know about USUM. They could have stated that a change would happen in 2018 just as they did 3 years ago for ORAS.
And there is no reason for the current ruleset to be misleading when we already know about USUM. They could have stated that a change would happen in 2018 just as they did 3 years ago for ORAS.
Eh, I kind of find it hard to call this any indication towards Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. Just because they didn't announce they'll make rule changes when USUM comes out doesn't mean they won't. Right now, since USUM seems to not be coming out early 2018, (EDIT: Oops, got my games crossed. But I still think my points still apply plus my newest points below upon realizing my mistake) they're sticking with the rules they have now. Also, this could have been purposely done so not to reveal spoilers about how much their expanding the Pokedex (if they are, though taking hints from past gens + complaints about the distribution of Pokemon I think we'll be seeing an expanded dex (also possibly more Alolan variants, and a TINY hope for maybe new Mega... yeah, they'd probably more focus on new Z-Moves instead)). Also GF hardly thinks about the competitive scene when making the new games so it shouldn't be a shock updating the VGC rules to reflect USUM will be probably one of the last things they do before releasing the game.
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You lost me at "USUM seems to not be coming out early 2018." I assume you meant until, but there is no reason to doubt the confirmed November release date just because we haven't had news yet. Three months is plenty of time for this kind of games.
So with that said I don't see any reason not to mention USUM in the ruleset even now (as they did for ORAS). There could be new forms, and a Pokedex expansion was already implied, but they don't appear to consider those changes important enough to move on from SM.
So with that said I don't see any reason not to mention USUM in the ruleset even now (as they did for ORAS). There could be new forms, and a Pokedex expansion was already implied, but they don't appear to consider those changes important enough to move on from SM.
Oops, sorry, I got the news of the Switch games being pushed back with USUM's release. I'll correct my post above after this.
Question, who makes the rule set? GF or Pokemon Company? If GF than, okay, maybe that's something to consider since they're the ones making the games. But if it's the Pokemon Company, still I wouldn't give it much thought. If anything, I'm taking all this as just placeholder info. One thing about the rules you listed is that it only mentions Sun & Moon, nothing about Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. All this info they're telling us only applies to Sun & Moon, including the Pokedex. Yeah, USUM are suppose to be out by then... which is when they'll change the rules. If USUM is out by November, then it doesn't really matter what they have for 2018 rules right now as they'll have plenty time to change it before it becomes active.
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So it made sense to state that XY would only be used for 2014, and it is somehow justified to lie about SM being used in 2018? You lost me again. If anything, it's the other way around...
I see no reason not to take the information at face value. Now, whether or not this means anything for USUM's content remains to be seen (you're right that it depends on Game Freak), but the fact is that SM are the games TPCi will use for VGC. I will say that Game Freak have been influenced by VGC before, in creating Mega Evolutions for ORAS to specifically change the metagame.
I see no reason not to take the information at face value. Now, whether or not this means anything for USUM's content remains to be seen (you're right that it depends on Game Freak), but the fact is that SM are the games TPCi will use for VGC. I will say that Game Freak have been influenced by VGC before, in creating Mega Evolutions for ORAS to specifically change the metagame.
hopefully they don't spoil more than half the game again when they start revealing stuff. That bothers me a lot.
Okay, not that it's the morning how about I try this again. Here are my points in list form:
1. It's not 2018 yet. With the games coming out in November they have plenty of time to change it before it becomes active. As for them not mentioning it, eh, maybe this time they didn't feel it was necessary. Or maybe they do plan on using Sun & Moon's dex for a while after USUM's release to give the competitive scene time to settle with what the new games have to offer.
2. They only mention Sun & Moon, no mention of Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. All that info only relates to Sun & Moon.
3. To avoid spoilers they didn't want to give dex details. It's probably safe to say every Pokemon that was available in SM would be in USUM.
4. They have always expanded upon the regional dex in the third versions, why would they not now? In addition the Alolan Pokemon are generally considered a large success (and it's one of this gen's newest gimmicks) so why wouldn't they make more?
5. I'm assuming a department in the Pokemon Company made these schedules, not GF who are making the games. Infact, GF doesn't rarely has competitive first on their mind. Why is this an important distinction? There could be some communication issues which explains why Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon wasn't mentioned. Maybe GF are till deciding what new Pokemon to add (and hopefully working better on distribution) or maybe there has been some trouble with development and they might be pushing the games back and we just don't know yet.
I think we should just agree to disagree. It's certainly questionable why the official rules wouldn't make any mention to Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon, but since it doesn't we can't say it indicates anything about it either.
The wording is specific about only USUM being eligible: "Only legitimate versions of Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon can be used in Play! Pokémon tournaments. This includes game cards and downloadable versions of Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon."
USUM's new content is a separate point from what I'm saying, which is that we really have no reason to assume that the ruleset will change. Telling people that they can keep using SM without accounting for more Pokemon is not okay if they are going to change the ruleset later. They haven't resorted to misdirection before for good reason.
And using the National Pokedex, as they would usually do by now, wouldn't spoil anything. Nor would telling people that the current ruleset only applies to 2017 and more information will be provided later.
Why they are not using USUM is a mystery to me, but I can't ignore the facts. Anyway, that's all I have to say if you disagree.
USUM's new content is a separate point from what I'm saying, which is that we really have no reason to assume that the ruleset will change. Telling people that they can keep using SM without accounting for more Pokemon is not okay if they are going to change the ruleset later. They haven't resorted to misdirection before for good reason.
And using the National Pokedex, as they would usually do by now, wouldn't spoil anything. Nor would telling people that the current ruleset only applies to 2017 and more information will be provided later.
Why they are not using USUM is a mystery to me, but I can't ignore the facts. Anyway, that's all I have to say if you disagree.
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I think it's strange too, but I can see why they would do it this way. In short, it is so as not to spoil anything for USUM. The rules will probably be amended later.
In that ruleset document, they write their banlists according to Alola dex number. Eligible Pokémon are dex numbers 001-204, 206-288, and 293-299. Some quick looking up reveals that the banned Pokémon are Zygarde (205), Cosmog's whole family (289-292), and Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow (300-302). If the rules had been written for a potentially changed USUM dex, we'd easily be able to determine the number of cover legendaries/mythicals in those games, as well as the total number of Pokémon in the "new Alola dex".
As for why USUM is not mentioned at all, I guess it's just cleaner that way. Pretend like they don't exist(as seems to be current TPC policy), until they are able to amend the rules in full and include the games and everything associated with them.
In that ruleset document, they write their banlists according to Alola dex number. Eligible Pokémon are dex numbers 001-204, 206-288, and 293-299. Some quick looking up reveals that the banned Pokémon are Zygarde (205), Cosmog's whole family (289-292), and Necrozma, Magearna, and Marshadow (300-302). If the rules had been written for a potentially changed USUM dex, we'd easily be able to determine the number of cover legendaries/mythicals in those games, as well as the total number of Pokémon in the "new Alola dex".
As for why USUM is not mentioned at all, I guess it's just cleaner that way. Pretend like they don't exist
I am sorry, but I don't see why they'd have to mention the new banned Pokemon at all when they could just say "this ruleset will be updated in 2018."
Not to mention that they could have just mentioned the current banned legendaries by name.
Not to mention that they could have just mentioned the current banned legendaries by name.
1. Changing the rules of a tournament after they've already been published is very unusual, maybe even unprecedented for TPCi. ~9 months is plenty of time to build a competitive scene and it's always been before. Why is it suddenly not enough now?
2. It relates to the lack of USUM being used ~9 months after their release.
3. Flimsy reason (marketing-wise & competitive diversity-wise) to use a whole different set of games for the WCS.
4. Technically that only started in Platinum, and that's exactly the point - why exclude 9-month-old Alolan Forms from the WCS?
5. The first part's possibly true. I hope the last part isn't.
@Codraroll Then isn't this the first time they would have to change the rules? Between XY and ORAS if I remember correctly the document just said "ORAS is releasing at the end of this year, so rules are still being finalized for next year; watch this space". They didn't say "we'll be using XY next year. Oh oops, we're using ORAS instead!".
ninja edit: @Unown Lord Exactly.
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I've just noticed the "they might be pushing the games back and we just don't know yet" part. Pokemon games with a confirmed, specific release date don't get delayed. USUM of all games being pushed would be beyond weird, especially when 2018 is being seriously considered for the first Switch games.
Hmm, this just gave me a thought...
Indeed, Yellow, Crystal, & Emerald didn't expand their Pokedex but rather just reworked the encounter table. Of course, this was mainly with version exclusives, the third version getting some from each of the paired games thus having it's own set of exclusives.
So, here's my thought: what if they're keeping the number of Pokemon the same but switching up what Pokemon are in the game? Instead of the, say, Alola #22 & 23 being Spinarak & Ariados instead they're Joltik & Galvantula? This could also work the Alolan Pokemon, in addition to switching out some Pokemon so new ones can be given Alolan forms, maybe in USUM some/all Pokemon who were in their Alolan forms would be in their normal forms (thus allowing them to be used in competition) while ones which didn't originally have will be given. It'll also allow certain Pokemon with Mega forms not in the Alolan Dex to be added in (probably by replacing another Pokemon with a Mega). They have their share of picks of Pokemon to replace/give Alolan forms too:
Gen I: Caterpie family, Chansey family, Snorlax family, Slowpoke family, Abra family, Magnemite family, Growlithe family, Drowzee family, Gastly family, Zubat family, Spearow family, Mankey family, Psyduck family, Magikarp family, Machop family, Tentacool family, Shellder family, Eevee family, Jigglypuff family, Tauros, Paras family, Poliwag family, Goldeen family, Kangaskhan, Magmar family, Pinsir, Staryu family, Ditto, Clefairy family, Porygon family, Electabuzz family, Lapras, Scyther family, Dratini family, Aerodactyl
Gen II: Ledba family, Spinarak family, Sudowoodo family, Smeargle, Misdreavus family, Delibird, Corsola, Miltank, Chinchou family, Skarmory, Sneasel family, Snubbull family, Murkrow family
Gen III: Wingull family, Makuhita family, Barboach family, Sableye, Spinda, Luvdisc, Bagon family, Surskit family, Feebas family, Castform, Nosepass family, Beldum family, Torkoal, Trapinch family, Absol, Snorunt family, Relicanth, Carvahna family, Wailmer family
Gen IV: Drifloon family, Finneon family, Cranidos family, Shieldon family, Gible family, Shellos family, Riolu family
Gen V: Rufflet family, Vullaby family, Petilil family, Cottonee family, Roggenrola family, Lillipup family, Alomomola, Archen family, Tirtouga family, Trubbish family, Sandile family, Vanillite family, Emolga
Gen VI: Carbink, Fletchling family, Goomy family, Phantump family, Pancham family, Klefki
Okay so the lay down the "unrest" around the new Play! rules, I spoke to Blarajan on Discord about it.
Traditionally the "Fall" (Read: Autumn) format (ie After the World Champs) rules use the World's ruleset from that season. We won't know the rules regarding USUM until the Winter section of the Play! Season. Autumn, Winter and Spring events can all count towards next years World Champs.
Bit of an odd format, but it works. We won't know the Winter rules onwards until much closer to USUM's release/January than now. The rulesets are updated at quarter years. This is a case of no one in the thread really understanding or knowing what the Play season means. This is not the Official Format for the whole of next season, just for the Fall segment of the season. New Winter rules will be posted at a later date.
Traditionally the "Fall" (Read: Autumn) format (ie After the World Champs) rules use the World's ruleset from that season. We won't know the rules regarding USUM until the Winter section of the Play! Season. Autumn, Winter and Spring events can all count towards next years World Champs.
Bit of an odd format, but it works. We won't know the Winter rules onwards until much closer to USUM's release/January than now. The rulesets are updated at quarter years. This is a case of no one in the thread really understanding or knowing what the Play season means. This is not the Official Format for the whole of next season, just for the Fall segment of the season. New Winter rules will be posted at a later date.
That's what I was going to say. After ORAS came along, the rules only changed on January 1st. After SM came along, the rule only changed on December 1st. We'll probably get the new set of rules for VGC18 from the day USM is released to the week after. And the new rules will either come into effect on December or January. As a professor, I hope they change on January, because that giver trainers more time to actually enjoy the game before turning to Competitive mindset.
Again, look at this post where I compared the current wording to the one from July 2015. Only the latter made it clear that the ruleset would change on January 1st of the following year. There is no reason not to offer that clarfication this time around and people have every right to be confused even if it changes later. The word "Fall" isn't used anywhere.
Two freaking Months and still no USUM news.
I was hoping for something to pop up and show me "oh hey, there is something exciting and worthwhile about this game that makes it worth picking up" beyond them banking on us giving enough of a d*** about the covers to speculate on just seeing them slapped on with a piece of Necrozma.
so I guess I will make my wishlist:
* New Mega's (if Possible)
* New Alolan forms (1)
* No more of that Lily Family crap... honestly having to get dragged through scene after scene about how she is getting "stronger" when her character is of little importance beyond holding nebby...... gah I will rant about why I hate SuMo's story out of all of them later but just.. no more Lilly.. or at least Lily centering plot wise.
* Skipable cutscenes
* Removal of the Battle Plaza as the main Communication hub and the Return of a Viable Multiplayer system like Gen 6
* Better and more time investing Battle Facilities that are not a Revamped freaking BATTLE MAISON
* Move tutors (they haven't skipped it before but hell, always best to include it to be safe)
* MORE Guzma
* No more Ultra-Beasts and better explanations and insight on the current UB's
* Gyms, as Trials are honestly a Reskinned Gym.
* an expanded pokedex if possible
* Better Trainer Customization
* Super Training
* telling me where the hell Yungoose was shipped from as a hint to gen 8
(might add more to the list later, this is just off the top of my head)
*(1)* a note, although I do want more Alolan forms, but seeing the earlier posts in relation to mega Speculation only including Kanto and Johto mons, and the theme of kanto pandering I cringed... so.. I would love there to be LESS kanto mons and more region diversity to fit the island theme.
I saw someone suggest Alolan Bellosom with Grass/Fire. that is a great start and I would kill for something like that.
Edit: plenty of Grammar and Spelling Errors I have missed, sorry I am a bit tired at the time of typing this.
I was hoping for something to pop up and show me "oh hey, there is something exciting and worthwhile about this game that makes it worth picking up" beyond them banking on us giving enough of a d*** about the covers to speculate on just seeing them slapped on with a piece of Necrozma.
so I guess I will make my wishlist:
* New Mega's (if Possible)
* New Alolan forms (1)
* No more of that Lily Family crap... honestly having to get dragged through scene after scene about how she is getting "stronger" when her character is of little importance beyond holding nebby...... gah I will rant about why I hate SuMo's story out of all of them later but just.. no more Lilly.. or at least Lily centering plot wise.
* Skipable cutscenes
* Removal of the Battle Plaza as the main Communication hub and the Return of a Viable Multiplayer system like Gen 6
* Better and more time investing Battle Facilities that are not a Revamped freaking BATTLE MAISON
* Move tutors (they haven't skipped it before but hell, always best to include it to be safe)
* MORE Guzma
* No more Ultra-Beasts and better explanations and insight on the current UB's
* Gyms, as Trials are honestly a Reskinned Gym.
* an expanded pokedex if possible
* Better Trainer Customization
* Super Training
* telling me where the hell Yungoose was shipped from as a hint to gen 8
(might add more to the list later, this is just off the top of my head)
*(1)* a note, although I do want more Alolan forms, but seeing the earlier posts in relation to mega Speculation only including Kanto and Johto mons, and the theme of kanto pandering I cringed... so.. I would love there to be LESS kanto mons and more region diversity to fit the island theme.
I saw someone suggest Alolan Bellosom with Grass/Fire. that is a great start and I would kill for something like that.
Edit: plenty of Grammar and Spelling Errors I have missed, sorry I am a bit tired at the time of typing this.
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