Pokemon Legends - Arceus - 28th Jan 2022 *Official Content Only*

It's been a while ever since talking on the Orange Islands forums, but I am optimistically (with caution) excited for this game in particular! If everyone around here seems to be content with the game's overall quality (I only take game critic reviews with a grain of salt), this might persuade me to earn enough money to buy a Nintendo Switch and get Pokemon Legends: Arceus along with Smash! And that's saying something since I just lost about quite a bit of money from a fraudulent phishing scheme.

Please Gamefreak, don't rush this game and take your time! As much as SwSh is flawed, we can see how the groundwork of the Wild Area paved the way for this. For the first time in a while, fans who have stepped away are wanting to return to the series, and it's because of this game, not the DPP remakes. I would HATE to see you not get a redemption arc in making RPGs, or get associated with the controversy of crunch culture/toxic workplaces. BOTW and other Nintendo games have delayed themselves, and turned out great, so you can too!
 

pokemon4eva

literally my two brain cells
is a Pre-Contributor
Y'know... I gotta say...

Even if this game ends up being a Sonic 06 level-trainwreck where the devs bit off way more than they can chew. Even if the hype wears off spectacularly when it comes out and it turns out to be nothing special.

It just feels so refreshing to have a mainline Pokemon game with Game Freak at the helm, one based on an old game no less, where we genuinely haven't the damndest clue about the most basic of ground rules. That doesn't sound like a compliment, but it is. Things that were once considered tried and true like story progression, the battle system, map design and so forth are now completely up in the air to an extent we have never seen in this franchise before. It seems like nearly nothing is off-limits anymore, and for a franchise that prior to this announcement many felt had stagnated that's the shit we really needed.
Even today, Sonic 06 is remembered by some more fondly because of the direction it took, with technical difficulties being what holds it back the most. I hope the same mistakes don't repeat again for Legends.

It's been a while ever since talking on the Orange Islands forums, but I am optimistically (with caution) excited for this game in particular! If everyone around here seems to be content with the game's overall quality (I only take game critic reviews with a grain of salt), this might persuade me to earn enough money to buy a Nintendo Switch and get Pokemon Legends: Arceus along with Smash! And that's saying something since I just lost about quite a bit of money from a fraudulent phishing scheme.

Please Gamefreak, don't rush this game and take your time! As much as SwSh is flawed, we can see how the groundwork of the Wild Area paved the way for this. For the first time in a while, fans who have stepped away are wanting to return to the series, and it's because of this game, not the DPP remakes. I would HATE to see you not get a redemption arc in making RPGs, or get associated with the controversy of crunch culture/toxic workplaces. BOTW and other Nintendo games have delayed themselves, and turned out great, so you can too!
I hope they don't rush this game cuz I find the idea very interesting.
Yeah, if this one year gap isn't going to cut it, I'm all in favor for a delay. There's no excuse for no delay, we are getting the DP remakes on late 2021, and Legends being a different timeline most likely means it doesn't need to fit in strict schedules or anything.
 
So out of some of the leaked non-trailer screenshots, there's one that's really stumped me and quite a few others.

View attachment 319525
Aight, judging by the giant healthbar this seems like some sort of raid/boss encounter. That's not the big mystery here, though.

The real mystery... What the actual hell is this Pokemon? At a quick first glance I thought it was a Magmar but the more I stare at it the less I can tell what it's actually supposed to be. It's weird since every other screenshot leaked is pretty clear-cut, but this one's just an unrecognizable blotch in comparison.
I never thought they’d drop a new Pikaclone mid-gen. It’s... chicken nugget themed.
Am I the only one who thinks that's just a very flashy
Thundurus
?
Pokémon legends: Landorus-Therian when?
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
So, I was feeling a bit underwhelmed by the presentation of the DP remakes (which only got worse the more I learned about it), but then I found out that's because GF did not care about doing the DP remakes (they're not going to say that publicly, but that's what it is). No, the DP remakes, I guess in GF's eyes, was a necessary evil in order to do the project they were truly interested in: an origin story of the Sinnoh region! Color me intrigued! :bloblul:

I actually always thought a game where you're part of a group of people who just inhabited a new region and have to venture out to start cataloguing the Pokemon, meeting & connecting with any other groups living there, and essentially create a new Pokemon League from scratch. Of course, I thought of this idea being a MMO and it's in modern times.

Not sure where to start, so first I'll go through the trailer:
  • 0:04: So, already interesting, voice acting! Is this just for the trailer or will we finally have people talking in the games.
  • 0:07: Long time ago, huh? Lockstin released a video a few days ago explaining the story is likely based on Japan's Industrial Revolution during the mid 1800s, it's a good video I would go watch it. I agree with his assessment so I'm going to keep that timeframe in mind for some later points.
  • 0:45: So, it's very interesting that even though this is taking place "a long time ago" we're still playing as Dawn and Lucas. And no, I'm not going to spout out some "we're playing their ancestor's" theory cause ultimately it doesn't matter. However, it does raise the concern we may not be able to customize our appearance. Like I'm already guessing the outfit was probably made specifically to help the player sneak around and face the elements so wouldn't be changing (though wouldn't mind if they let us change the colors), but would like to have the option to change skin color, eye color, & hair style & color (and given more than 4 preset options for each gender too; seriously just use Animal Crossing's character customizer or something).
  • 0:50: DODGE ROLL! I can't wait to discover this is the fastest way to travel and thus be doing nothing but dodge rolling my way across the fields!
  • 0:56: Sniped! And the other Shinx doesn't suspect a thing! Hehe (What other Shinx in thinking: "I'm so happy my big bwother is here to pwotect me fwom all the pwedators, I'd be a gonna without him!")
  • 1:02: Rhyhorn: OW! WHY DID YOU PUNCH ME IN MY FACE! AND NOW YOU'RE THROWING ROCKS AT ME... I feel like I'm getting small...
  • 1:06: Really GF with the 10 fps Chingling? If you're trying to get people to forget about the non-flapping Wingulls this isn't going to do it.
  • 1:08: (Insert Bidoof meme here)
  • 1:13: Okay, so this is important! While it was hinted at in the intro image, this shows that the Sinnoh Starters will be wild Pokemon! I'm wondering if at some point during the game something will happen to make them the Sinnoh Starters.
So now to the website:

Steampunk Poke Ball: So one of the more interesting elements is the steampunk Poke Ball that's made of wood & releases steam when it captures. Now this is an interesting development because this is the first proto-Poke Ball we've seen in the games I believe. The anime has its own (often contradictory) history of proto Pokeballs, we're told in Johto they used hollowed Apricorns, and Drayden said in a B2W2 Memory Link that when he was young Poke Balls didn't exist. So, are they retconning what Drayden says or is our access to Poke Balls a special thing via helping the Professor? And if we're the only ones to use Poke Balls, does that mean no one else will have Pokemon aside from us or will we see other ways Pokemon were "caught"/befriended before the time of Poke Balls (though we're also told this is a time before "Trainers" was also a thing). Also does this mean this is the only Poke Ball we'll have or will the Professor or maybe some inventor we meet create proto-versions of the better Poke Balls (though I doubt we'll be seeing any special Poke Balls).

Starters: Another surprising twist, while we're still given a choice of three Starters this time they're Starters from different regions! Rowlet, Cyndaquil, and Oshawott! No complaints, though feels a bit odd Cyndaquil is here instead of Fennekin if the idea these are foreign Pokemon. Like, sure, the Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn Pokemon are still foreign to Sinnoh, but they're also closer by than Unova, Kalos, and Alola (and Galar though I understand why they wouldn't exactly want a Galar Starter with SwSh still being the current main game). Also Rowlet also feels an odd one out as it's a duel-type and Cyndaquil and Oshawott remain pure type. If it was up to me I would have made the Starters Rowlet, Pignite, and Froakie as not only would they all be duel-type but also form an opposite Type triangle (or sorts)!
However, I wonder if them excluding a Kalos Starter was on purpose. During Japan's Industrial Revolution the current Emperor decided to stop the practice of seclusion from the world (a policy called "Sakoku"), among the many nations that formed relations with Japan it was France that seemed to form the strongest. So maybe in reference to that at some point we'll be given a Kalos Starter too. Thus is probably why we got a Johto Starter as we got a Kanto Starter in SwSh and ORAS is sort of still new enough that it was Johto Starter's turn again.

Battling: So it mentions to start a battle we just throw a Poke Ball at the Pokemon. So does that mean we'll only be battling Wild Pokemon? Also, how do we know names of moves when this seems to be implied when capturing Pokemon first began? Not saying not to have any Moves or we have to create our own from scratch, but I wouldn't mind being given the chance to "rename" a move (even if the Professor probably will come up with his own lame name and my awesome name will be forgotten, pfft).

Main Gameplay: So, like the normal games we're helping the Professor fill out the dex, except now there's no League to distract us and this is in fact the first dex of Sinnoh being made (then what the heck did Rowan want us to do in DP? He couldn't fill the Pokedex with written info?). A funny twist on things by making a rather background part of the game into the main goal of the game. Of coruse, I'm sure there's probably more to do, like we have a hometown which is probably going to play a major part of helping us (I can see us going around doing side quests for places as the town slowly builds itself up from our help).
Also, with the player's have incarnations during this time, I wonder if we'll also be seeing incarnations of other Sinnoh characters and whether they will be playing a similar role as they did in DP. Like is the Professor going to look like Rowan (or will there be another leading character that looks like him?). Since there's no League that means no Gym Leader, but that just means incarnations of their characters will have different roles and provide us help & quests (I can see Roark being a stonecutter & Byron as a blacksmith, Gardenia as a herbalist, Crasher Wake a fisherman, Fantina maybe a foreign diplomat (maybe from Galar since in the Japanese version she spoke English); not sure what Maylene, Candice, or Volkner would be). And then there's Cynthia, Barry, Elite Four, Cyrus and Galatic Admins. With how it's likely in BDSP that they're not going to give any character new designs, would be at least nice to see these characters have their incarnations be given neat 1800s designs.

And that's all I really got to say from what we were shown (no, I don't really have much thoughts on Arceus). I am MUCH more excited about these games than the DP remakes, sad that the DP remakes are being left in the dust (and having to deal with Masuda), though at the same time I would agree with the main staff of GF this seems like the more interesting project. DP remakes walked so Legends Arceus could run.:blobwizard:
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Rowlet, Cyndaquil, and Oshawott! No complaints, though feels a bit odd Cyndaquil is here instead of Fennekin if the idea these are foreign Pokemon.
That's part of the idea, but the other theme they are going for with these three in particular is that they are meant to represent feudal weaponry that was used in times of combat. Rowlet's final form, Decidueye, is the archer, and represents the bow and arrow, Typhlosion has an explosive flame on its back and represents gunpowder and other related explosives, while Samurott represents the sword, being a samurai and all.

It fits in with feudal Sinnoh (the setting of this game) being based in feudal Japan and all, and the tie-in to feudalism. Samurott is also a samurai which is an important position in feudal Japan, and Typhlosion's name in Japanese is Bakufuun, the first part "Bakufu" can also literall mean the shogunate, and it's a badger/weasel which has intense ties to ancient Japanese mythology, further tying it into the theme of this game.
 
I actually always thought a game where you're part of a group of people who just inhabited a new region and have to venture out to start cataloguing the Pokemon, meeting & connecting with any other groups living there, and essentially create a new Pokemon League from scratch. Of course, I thought of this idea being a MMO and it's in modern times.
So, Pokémon 76? :p
I know it’s pretty early but here is the initial Pokemon Legends checklist:

So I've compared this to the list of trailer mons for Snap. Overlap(every mon listed represents a member of their family appearing in both titles, not that that specific mon has appeared in both trailers):
Pikachu
Turtwig
Starly
Bidoof

That's...far fewer than I anticipated. Now, there's a lot of mons, Snap trailers have been focused on the first 3 gens, etc, could be nothing. But I suspect Namco were given a list of mons that are off-limits for Snap, and most of Gen IV was on it, to keep the two "see these mons in the wild" games from stepping on each other's toes. It's the gen with the least representation in that game other than VIII

Here's the full list for Gen IV in Snap so far:
Torterra
Bidoof
Starly
Drifblim
Hippowdon
Skorupi
Finneon
Lumineon
Tangrowth
Yanmega

Now, like I said, I could be reading into things. But that's a starter, 2 early-route derps no one cares about, 2 cross-gen evos, and 4 other families. I suspect the first 5 I mentioned were allowed to appear in both games for various reasons, and there may be others, but I wouldn't be surprised if this means that Hippowdon, Drifloon, and Skorupi aren't going to be in PLArceus.

Side note, do we have an agreed-upon acronym for this game yet?
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
If this is the direction Game Freak wants to take the series to, I don't think I'll stay much longer.
Now I don't think this is the absolute direction the franchise is going, rather it's more of an expansion on what they were trying to do with the Wild Area. GF seems to be really trying to figure out how they can make the routes, forests, caves, and other wilderness places feel more "realistic". While for this game it seems like that's the focus, for future games it's probably just going to be a way to expand on the routes and locations between towns/cities to give the player something more to do than battle the trainers there and run around in a circle until you catch all the Pokemon you want. We've seen with Isle of Armor and Crowned Tundra they've gotten more of a knack making the open-world areas actually worth exploring, this is probably to test if they can make an entire game like that (but we'll always have directions to go & and a goal, not sure about Legends but for the main games).

Not a fan if that's the "intended" way to catch Pokemon. Sure it's quick and not tedious, but at same time, it does feel... off as method.
Well it sounds like there's more to it than that. Like there might be a certain moment a Pokemon is "vulnerable" to a better chance of a non-conflict capture, you have to watch its behavior (and make sure you're not seen otherwise it'll probably act differently/on the defense). Curious for filling out the dex whether the way you caught the Pokemon is important or you just gotta catch it (or just have to observe it).

And hey, it seems to abandon the "two versions" model, which really warrants some celebration in my opinion.
Well I feel it's more of a spinoff (or at least it's part of the special LGPE's categorization of "Main Series" but not "Core Series").

Like seriously you have to be tripping on some strong-ass drugs to think that these graphics suck. These graphics look 200x better than SWSH, and this is coming from someone who liked the SWSH graphics (except for the trees).
Though there is something I'm slightly confused on: are they going for stylized or "realistic", because at points it looks like the location was drawn like a Japanese picture but in others it looks like a "realistic" setting. Or is it mostly "realistic" but there are some locations that'll be given a special Japanese ink-drawing look.

I wonder what elements of this game they will end up using for Gen IX. I don't think the mainline Pokemon games will change the combat system since it would end VGC (although you never know), but maybe they will use some of the open world design. Maybe Legends will be a new spin-off series like Let's Go. It's awesome to have 2 big Pokemon games to look forward to over the next 12-18 months.
Well I wouldn't mind if they keep the Pokemon RUNNING UP TO EACH OTHER AND PHYSICALLY HITTING ONE ANOTHER! Like, jeez, about time, only took you 3 gens after going 3D!

However Legends becoming its own series is an interesting prospect, I mean afterall it's called "Legends: Arceus", the Arceus part seemingly a subtitle and I can easily see others like Mew, Celebi, Rayquaza, Kyurem, Zygarde, Necrozma, & Calyrex.

Edit: According to Serebii the press release says Legends is single player
Who was questioning it wasn't? The trailer showed no other players.

Also I doubt they'll be ready to reveal is there's a multiplayer mode like capturing contests.


I don't really see any framerate issues myself. Each time the Pokémon had stilted animations it looked more like an intentional choice to get across a watercolour/traditional art style. Looked good to me
Good point, it was only a Chimecho that had the low framerate, maybe it's to shows its a special Pokemon?

... Or, maybe to show it's a glitch in the matrix and this game is taking place in a simulation of the past! :psywoke:

Since Chimchar isn't an option (as they are specifically stated to be obtained from abroad)... there isn't a single Fire-type starter that can really fit with a medieval Japan style aesthetic. Charmander, Fennekin and Scorbunny are too european, Torchic might be too modern, and so are Tepig and Litten, so Cyndaquil wins by the fact nothing else fits.
Chimchar and Tepig are both based on characters from the same Chinese tale...

Wild guess, but I bet we’ll learn about legends in the Pokémon universe. I’m going into speculative territory here, but maybe even legends about Arceus?
Jokes aside, Sinnoh was notable for having a LOT of Legendary Pokemon. The main mystery is probably going to involve Arceus, but they could have side mysteries exploring the legends of the Lake Guardians, Heatran, Regigigas and the Regi Trio, Cresselia & Darkrai, Shaymin, and Manaphy (& Phione). Maybe we'll even get to go into the Distortion World?

Something that struck me during the presentation was that they said you could explore and battle with your Pokémon partner.
Partner. Not partners, mind you.
I wonder if the concept of team will be thrown out in favor of 1 singular allied Pokémon
We’ve already seen a screenshot of the player having 6 poke balls on their side of battle. I assume by single partner they’re just referring to your starter
Or maybe they mean you can only have one of your Pokemon out with you at a time, hence partner and not partners. Also could just be a slip of the tongue.

I’m kinda wondering if we’ll see fossil Pokémon or not? It’s way too early to restore fossils, but it’s probably after they died out? Still though, it seems weird to toss out the sinnoh fossil mons that could potentially work in the setting, unlike porygon-z and stuff, but it also seems like it would be weird to include them, since they’re probably dead?
Well they already threw out that idea with Crowned Tundra having fossil Pokemon walking around. My guess is they'll probably have this secluded location where the Fossil Pokemon are, maybe show the place has something funky going on but don't explain it to allow speculation something naturally has caused the fossil Pokemon to revive.

(or the fact that Conquest includes Mewtwo)
And while you could argue Conquest is it's its own canon, Pokemon Ranger isn't and in Guardian Signs there's this ancient temple that for some reason has a Mewtwo resting in it (and the bad guys explained they didn't bring it, the Mewtwo was inside the temple when they got there).

And of course there's the issue with the history of Poke Balls like them existing here yet Drayden says when he was young they didn't and I doubt Drayden is over 200 years old (then again I guess you can never guess with Pokemon...).
 
Well they already threw out that idea with Crowned Tundra having fossil Pokemon walking around. My guess is they'll probably have this secluded location where the Fossil Pokemon are, maybe show the place has something funky going on but don't explain it to allow speculation something naturally has caused the fossil Pokemon to revive.
Omanyte's Sword entry suggests that the Crown Tundra's population of fossil Pokemon is due, at least in part, to them escaping into the wild after being revived. Kabuto appears to be the only exception, as living specimens have apparently been found since Ruby and Sapphire, and its Shield entry indicates that this is becoming increasing less rare.
 
Even today, Sonic 06 is remembered by some more fondly because of the direction it took, with technical difficulties being what holds it back the most. I hope the same mistakes don't repeat again for Legends.
:blobglare:

...

:blobglare:

...

:blobglare:

...and these people congregate where exactly? cause places like furraffinity are what I'd call "niche"; If you know what I mean

Chimchar and Tepig are both based on characters from the same Chinese tale...
You're thinking of Zhu Bajie 315111; Emboar is explicitly based on Zhang Fei from Romance of the Three Kingdoms (who was also a real person and not a fictional pig monster)

also, yes Drayden is full of crap
either that or poke balls are actually Poke Balls™ and these balls go by a different name
 
I don't think I'll get used to the pronunciation Arkkkeus...

Anyway, I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. I would have liked if GF released one more game using the standard formula (and make it actually good) before they started experimenting though. It feels so long ago since I played a new Pokemon game since I didn't bother with USUM and SwSh. That's why I actually want another 'formulaic' game, as long as its polished.

If this game ends up being good, I don't have anything to complain about I guess, but again, I do hope GF won't abandon the traditional pokemon gameplay experience entirely.
 

Zetalz

Expect nothing, deliver less
is a Pre-Contributor
I would have liked if GF released one more game using the standard formula (and make it actually good) before they started experimenting though. It feels so long ago since I played a new Pokemon game since I didn't bother with USUM and SwSh. That's why I actually want another 'formulaic' game, as long as its polished.
That's kind of actually what they've done by releasing DP remakes before the new experimental title. While not a 'new' game, it is going to be based on a pokemon game that was part of pokemon's golden age (gen 4-5), so even if it's not an amazing remake, it'll still be a modern version of a good game. They can placate both the people that wanted a remake and another standard formula game at once while focusing on their more important project that distances themselves from the memory of SWSH's reception. Pokemon has been in need of some real innovation and experimentation for some time so personally I much prefer that they move into unknown territory as soon as possible.

=

Now for some of my own thoughts. It's been a long time since I've felt as giddy with anticipation of a new pokemon title as this game has made me, but it's anchored with plenty of apprehension and worry. The base concept and setting of Legends has been my dream pokemon game for a very long time now.

I LOVE the lore and mythology of pokemon's universe and have been continually frustrated with GF's approach of 'dangling-a-carrot' in our faces with some cool history, only to go barely surface deep on it (sometimes not even that). The idea of a game set not only in one of the franchise's most lore-rich regions, but also during a different time period has been a pipe dream I truly thought was never going to happen during my lifetime with the direction the series has been going. I personally have grown rather tired of pokemon's contemporary representation of our modern world. I've wanted them to go diving head first into the rich culture and history of the game's regions and the real world places they represent, but all too often being disappointed at them only going ankle-deep. I know this a kid's franchise at the end of the day but that's never an excuse to skimp out on some real rich lore, I certainly know I wasn't the only kid obsessed with history growing up lol.

All that having been said however, while I believe this game has the most potential the series has seen for a VERY long time, it also has the greatest potential to bomb. The open world genre is not something that can be thrown together willy nilly. It requires a real strong understanding of what makes a world feel alive and lived in, and how to make the player really feel like they're in a real place. BotW got away with it's vast relatively empty landscapes by giving the player a well crafted sandbox to mess around with... but so far that's been.... not exactly what they've shown us. Features like dodge rolling (and climbing supposedly, if those pics are to be believed) won't feel like truly innovative or even important features if there's no through-line. There HAS to be a good reason to not only utilize them, but to want to use them. It seems like such a simple concept, but few open-world games truly make good use of the tools presented.

Vast empty fields with few-no pokemon and lack of any npcs really isn't anything new for pre-release pokemon footage though, so for now I remain cautiously optimistic that come release this game won't feel as barren and lifeless as many fear it could be. And it very easily could be.


So out of some of the leaked non-trailer screenshots, there's one that's really stumped me and quite a few others.

View attachment 319525
Aight, judging by the giant healthbar this seems like some sort of raid/boss encounter. That's not the big mystery here, though.

The real mystery... What the actual hell is this Pokemon? At a quick first glance I thought it was a Magmar but the more I stare at it the less I can tell what it's actually supposed to be. It's weird since every other screenshot leaked is pretty clear-cut, but this one's just an unrecognizable blotch in comparison.

shoutouts to BlorengeRhymes for their glorious interpretation. Personally I'm all for Caveman Groundskeeper Willy to kick my ass.
 
Well, this sounds very, very interesting. Once again, I find myself speculating about what the game may include or not in terms of mechanic, (hi)story, references, new ideas...

It remains to be seen if this is a "catch-only" game or if battles between trainers will still be a focal point (it appears battling will keep its turn-based 4 moves structure, no matter the optics of it, which looked far improved). This is my biggest gripe, as without battling I would questions PL:A's replayability (and if they want to make a proper A-RPG, they need some sort of replayability unless the main campaign is very, very long...something I deem unlikely in Pokemon).

Assuming the battling support base structure remains (levels, evolutions, your party), this announcement finally, finally proves they are now willing to do something different and experiment a little (or a lot: how much still remains to be seen, I am not giving, to GF especially, my benefit of the doubt), which is inherently a good sign. Being an adventurer out of a village of pioneers is an intriguing gaming starting point and one I've personally always enjoyed: seeing Pokemon do this causes a sigh of relief.

Outside of the general environment and structure, what intrigues me the most is the potential. Usually, every player's dream is immediately brought back to reality by simply saying "dude, look at how bare-boned the games always look" but this breath of fresh air means we're in uncharted territory.

Will GF experiment with past versions of mons a là regional variants? Will they finally implement mythicals better, exploring on their origins, why they are labelled as such...moreover, are we going to discover (and may be a focal part) of how the present version of the region came to life? Maybe some stonemasons settled here after the first 10-ish hours of the game? Some fishermen decided to make quarters in another spot? Who the hell challenged the adversities of the whole of Mt. Coronet and pushed further north to found Snowpoint (this one I am legitimately curios about)?

Furthermore, is GF willing to experiment compatibility between such games and the main series? Will we be able to transfer Paleo-Ball Dragon-Typed Rampardos to the main series (please, please make it so)? Wait a second... I am copyrighting Paleo Ball right now.

I am usually skeptical to the point of impossibility, but this game has promise. Now, for this not to be a wishlist that I've been harboring since 2005, well...

Probably the game won't be as good as the majority of us hope, but some middle ground, of which I'll be nevertheless satistied of.

In all likelihood, we won't have an all-encompassing mission where we climb Assassin's Creed like through Mt. Coronet while all the Abomasnow of the world chuck Avalanche at us whilst trying to catalogue whatever the hell Bronzong actually was born from, and at the end we play the Azure Flute for the first time in history.

Everything considered, I am setting myself up for PL:A to be a mixed bag. We won't have in-game 100% compatibility with all previous entries (something they should work on is to have an infrastructure where the latest game is the wharf for everything you want to bring up to date and HOME is simply the warehouse, not the opposite), we will still be waiting on a proper implementation of overworld, more seamless battling where Mons actually move like in a 2021 game (I'm not looking for it to be God of War-like, but to take a page from Dragon Quest XI maybe, where all characters have 5-6 animations instead of 2 and they can reasonably move in space). In this regard, what slightly concerned me was the absence of other human beings in the wild.

Different time periods, different mons in a region...evolved mechanics and different game structure... Hell, I'd be ok for some of it as long as it will be the stepping stones.

What we are in store for is probably some experimentation and the foreshadowing of some elements that may only shine afterwards in Gen IX...this is the expectation I'm setting for myself.

As long as it is structured, incremental improvements that go in a certain direction and not throwing mechanics at us and then collect them back with a magnet, while the magnet inadvertently also steals us some of the good things we had given for granted, I'm willing to look at this with some positive attitude.

The biggest franchise in the world, which is also the one I love the most, on the best-selling consolle and I still don't have a reason to dock the Switch on my TV to admire an awe-inspiring Pokemon environment.
The difference here is that the ideas put to action show promise.
 
Well, this sounds very, very interesting. Once again, I find myself speculating about what the game may include or not in terms of mechanic, (hi)story, references, new ideas...

It remains to be seen if this is a "catch-only" game or if battles between trainers will still be a focal point (it appears battling will keep its turn-based 4 moves structure, no matter the optics of it, which looked far improved). This is my biggest gripe, as without battling I would questions PL:A's replayability (and if they want to make a proper A-RPG, they need some sort of replayability unless the main campaign is very, very long...something I deem unlikely in Pokemon).
Honestly, I hope they just can trainer battles entirely. With newer entries streamlining and revamping wild encounters, it really shows just how little trainer battles have changed from the 90’s. In my opinion, the reason pokemon has remained relevant for so many years, (aside from multiplayer) is the wild encounters. Random enemies are typically called the worst part of rpg’s, and if even argue it’s part of the reason that most jrpg’s are an absolute laughing stock. But with Pokémon, every enemy is capturable and usable. When you see the wild battle intro, instead of “oh, what stupid animal do I have to beat up this time?” it’s “oh MAN! what will i find this time? A shiny? A rare ‘mon? Something I haven’t even seen yet?” It turns a menial slog into an adrenaline fueled lottery. Trainer battles, on the other hand, are the opposite of exciting. Unlike wild battles, they’re meant to be obstacles. You walk forward and then some gentleman lass bug catcher youngster school kid rockstar ace bird master alolan kantonian galarian tourist Pokémon breeder pokemaniac fairy tale girl hex psychic trainer moron shows up and shouts some poorly translated catchphrase and sends out a mothim and a raticate. It’s unavoidable. Don’t like wild battles? Ok, go get a max repel. Don’t like trainer battles? Go **** yourself. Pokémon isn’t about people. It’s about Pokémon. It’s in the name. Try to think of the name of one gen 6 gym leader. Ok, now try to think of one gen 6 Pokémon. You probably thought of at least 30 in the time it took to remember that there actually was a grass gym in x&y and it wasn’t just a werid dream. Outside of the random handful of memorable characters that show up in the anime or whatever gacha mobile game they’re doing nowadays, trainers suck and they always will. Good riddance.
 
Honestly, I hope they just can trainer battles entirely. With newer entries streamlining and revamping wild encounters, it really shows just how little trainer battles have changed from the 90’s. In my opinion, the reason pokemon has remained relevant for so many years, (aside from multiplayer) is the wild encounters. Random enemies are typically called the worst part of rpg’s, and if even argue it’s part of the reason that most jrpg’s are an absolute laughing stock. But with Pokémon, every enemy is capturable and usable. When you see the wild battle intro, instead of “oh, what stupid animal do I have to beat up this time?” it’s “oh MAN! what will i find this time? A shiny? A rare ‘mon? Something I haven’t even seen yet?” It turns a menial slog into an adrenaline fueled lottery. Trainer battles, on the other hand, are the opposite of exciting. Unlike wild battles, they’re meant to be obstacles. You walk forward and then some gentleman lass bug catcher youngster school kid rockstar ace bird master alolan kantonian galarian tourist Pokémon breeder pokemaniac fairy tale girl hex psychic trainer moron shows up and shouts some poorly translated catchphrase and sends out a mothim and a raticate. It’s unavoidable. Don’t like wild battles? Ok, go get a max repel. Don’t like trainer battles? Go **** yourself. Pokémon isn’t about people. It’s about Pokémon. It’s in the name. Try to think of the name of one gen 6 gym leader. Ok, now try to think of one gen 6 Pokémon. You probably thought of at least 30 in the time it took to remember that there actually was a grass gym in x&y and it wasn’t just a werid dream. Outside of the random handful of memorable characters that show up in the anime or whatever gacha mobile game they’re doing nowadays, trainers suck and they always will. Good riddance.
For what is worth, I remember some of them, even though not their English names, so it would be pointless.

It depends, because for example I also play Pokemon a lot because, outside of the excitement of wild encounters you described so well, I also love the battling challenges a là Battle Facilities/Restricted Sparring. The differentiation here is strategy vs randomness, artificial items vs no item (or item related to the mon, like Metal Coat Magneton etc...), some degree of actual strategy. Bonus point in the fact that I can pause and relax and I don't have to be a button mashing God like in some harder, direct responsive games and I also don't have a time bomb on me like on Showdown. Nevertheless, you have a point.

You could make the argument that you could go for a hybrid structure where you train with wild Pokemon only and all trainer battles are memorable (like, you play a game like it is now, but you only fight Evil Team+Rivals+Gym Leaders+Elite Four, and you throw in battle facilities in the post game), and while I would not prefer it over the current structure (I like random trainers around, though I agree they should make 98% of them less forgettable), I guess it could be a cool alternative.

It would require some remodeling, but since we are indeed in remodeling territory, why not?
 

Pikachu315111

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We don't ever really see more than a handful of Pokemon on screen at once, and you never see anything alive that is not right up close to you. Don't know if that is a draw distance thing or not, but it just makes the game feel empty.
Yeah, while they could have just edited the game for the trailer, we're going to need to have better draw distance for Pokemon than we had in SwSh. Also, while it's maybe because it was looking away (though you'd think the puff of steam would make an alerting noise), the Shinx had no response to the other Shinx getting captured behind it. The Pokemon in the Wild Area were "serviceable", but if the game is now going to center around the Pokemon being on the overworld and us having to watch their behaviors they're going to need to make the Pokemon more aware.

This may be a bit too dark for it to be the actual answer, but maybe Cyndaquil represents the Mongol invasions of Japan? It was the first conflict to use bombs, after all.

Speaking of historical references, the fact that the starters are from three different regions and were brought over to Sinnoh is pretty genius. Back in the feudal days, Japan prohibited trade from other countries and shut off its borders, with very few exceptions. The website does mention that it's the professor who brought them over, so maybe they're a diplomat who's not from Sinnoh, or they somehow smuggled them in? Either way, it's a neat reference!
Weapons are too dark but an invasion of a brutal foreign power that resulted in many deadly & bloody battles isn't? They probably also wouldn't want to relate Cyndaquil or any of their Pokemon to the Mongols since it was the Mongols who were thought to have used bombs.

If they're going for some historical references, as I mentioned it's likely this is based around Japan's Industrial Revolution where they lifted their self-isolation from the world (including restrictions of bringing in foreign goods). Also it's mentioned in the trailer that, in Pokehistory, this is when Sinnoh really began to be colonized and people from regions around the world began moving in. Likely it's mostly people from Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn, though other regions would of course have their interest in a new land for what resources it has (and in the Pokemon world that also includes Pokemon). Other parts of the world likely began the mass domestication of Pokemon thus explaining the Starters and why the Professor has them. Like I said, curious if this game will reveal the origin how Turtwig, Chimchar, and Piplup became the Sinnoh Starters.

I thought Chepsin would’ve worked better as a grass starter
If they did Chespin, Litten, & Oshawott we could have an all warrior Starter set.

One thing I just thought: Considering this is set in ancient times, it's likely that some Sinnoh Pokemon might be deliberately omitted/altered since they couldn't exist yet in their current states.

Rotom
Porygon-Z

Out of the Platinum dex, these two could cause the most problems in particular. Rotom could potentially be kept around if they gave it some new forms based on old machinery (e.g. Rotom-Water-Wheel or something). Meanwhile I don't really know how you reconcile Porygon's lore, like, at all.
Rotom: Considering the level of technology modern Pokemon has and we're using a ptoto-Pokeball that works just like a normal Pokeball does with instantaneous matter-to-energy conversion, they could easily fudge that there's also early forms of washing machines, fridges, fans, lawnmowers, and microwaves. Why would they be in Legend's Sinnoh? Maybe they belong to the Professor or another visiting diplomat (or maybe we can have an inventor character, can make them an ancestor of Volkner).

Porygon: Ironmage's time-travel suggestion sounds like the best handwave if they don't want to emit any Pokemon, but...

You're right that, just as they could maybe have some Pokemon normally not be in Sinnoh dex be in Legends with the assumption between then and now the species just moved away from Sinnoh (I'm sure there are some Pokemon we need it to be in Gen VIII that are not in the Plat dex), they could also just not have some species since, well, we got the DP remakes which will have them giving GF more wiggle room.

There are almost 1000 Pokemon, they've featured/drawn a lot of inspiration from every major continent at this point...where else is there for them to go?
DISNEYLAND!

But seriously, the (main) regions we have are:
  • 4 regions of Japan
  • 2 of the US (New York & Hawaii specifically)
  • France
  • UK

Like, we don't have any regions based from South America, Africa & Middle East (before you say anything, Egypt counts as part of being Middle East). Then we got Canada, Australia, Russia, China, Italy, & Scandinavia. Heck, there's some other state areas in US I could imagine them doing. So, yeah, plenty of region ideas still out there. Just as there's also still plenty of Pokemon ideas as well.

Memes aside, I think that the generation cycle will continue for at least a little while longer. They'll probably want to get in at least two more generations so they can hit a double-digit number of generations. And they don't have to start Generation 9 in 2022.
If Final Fantasy can keep going up with the numbers I don't see why Pokemon can't (heck, Pokemon doesn't even put the gen numbers on the titles).

It's probably not a coincidence that we're getting two Sinnoh games so close to each other, but did GF make a Sinnoh prequel to tie into the remakes? Or did GF think Sinnoh made sense for a game set in the past, and then had the remakes made to tie into it? I assume it would be the latter since GF isn't making the remakes, but you never know.
With Dawn & Lucas still being the main characters of Legends, would be interesting if maybe they thought of "Legends" first but as the idea for the remake. GF had no idea what to do for the DP remakes, so they started suggested some wild ideas just to get creative juices going: in space, in the future, in the... past? The past idea catches their attention and they begin coming up with ideas what they could do. Develop begins and while it starts out as "Gen IV set in the past" they quickly start changing things and soon come to realize they're essentially creating a new game. Knowing fans would complain if they give them this instead of the DP remakes, they discuss options and going to guess Masuda, wanting to try an experimental idea and he was director of DP, volunteers taking the DP remake projects and they'll also experiment with hiring another studio for Masuda to direct to develop them. Hence why GF is working on Legends while another studio was given DP remakes.

Holy shit! That log is hideous! w o w. Is that the base game or dlc? This erased every complaint I have about both of the games. Elite on the nes has better 3D models than this
That's in SwSh, and there's more than one. Pretty sure it shares the same texture with some trees too. I know because they put respawning hidden items at the base of the log, as if you're reaching into the log to get the item. Of course while they're thinking that, everyone else is noticing the blackhole that's in the log where you should still be seeing just the inside of the log.

The big question I have is: will we be able to marry eat at the same same table as Pokemon?
Not far in the past enough.


Why is it called legends when Arceus is a mythical
In Japan they originally never made a distinction between Legendary and Mythical. It wasn't until Gen V did they finally call Mythicals "Illusionary Pokemon". So technically, when Arceus was released, at the time it was considered a Legendary.

I also noticed that Legends Starters are presented without an Ability. It’s possible that it doesn’t mean anything, but it may also indicate that Abilities are missing from the game. Either that or the Ability mechanic is going to get an overhaul (Arceus, the Box Legend is heavily reliant on its Ability).
Oh, I didn't notice that. Weird. I can't think they'd remove Abilities (at least without replacing it with something like they did in Conquest). My guess for now is this is just basic info they want on the site. We all know the Starter's Abilities and Arceus, so it's not like having them is important. Heck, there's probably not going to be any new Pokemon so we infact may put Abilities on the site, just have it be something we learn in the games.

But there's definitely some Team Galactic origins woven in here somehow.
Cyrus got to learn about the Red Chain somehow...

The chimchar also has low frame rate issues, and I’m pretty sure that chingling was moving with the default walking cycle it always had, just at 3 FPS. Definitely unintentional.

If it is intentional, though, wtf
So I re-watched the trailer to get a better look at the Chingling and... does it seem a bit off? Like a bit brighter than usual? I've noted they had some locations which looked odd, like they were drawn from ink, so I'm wondering if maybe they'll have special Pokemon that look like they're drawn from ink and thus look more stop-motion animated?... Yeah, I'm probably reaching here.

Also, I just noticed the HORRID pop-in during the part just before they catch a Shinx. Come on GF, extend the draw distance so that it goes past 20 meters!


Even today, Sonic 06 is remembered by some more fondly because of the direction it took, with technical difficulties being what holds it back the most.


It fits in with feudal Sinnoh (the setting of this game) being based in feudal Japan and all, and the tie-in to feudalism.
Except the game isn't taking place in feudal Japan. A major clue is in the scene when you get the Starters, that doesn't look like any office you'd seen during the feudal era. But Industrial yes.

Still going by my theory we'll be given one of the Kalos Starters as a later "second Starter".

So, Pokémon 76? :p

You're thinking of Zhu Bajie 315111; Emboar is explicitly based on Zhang Fei from Romance of the Three Kingdoms (who was also a real person and not a fictional pig monster)
And where do you think the pig part likely came from?

I would have liked if GF released one more game using the standard formula
*Looks toward BDSP*
(and make it actually good)
Oh, right.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure next Gen will go back to the traditional formula. Because Legends is as much as part of the main series as Let's Go is, spinoffs with heightened importance due to how they have similar mechanics to the core series. In a way I guess we have Let's Go to thank for creating the separate definitions between Main Series and Core Series, now GF can experiment what games can be made to fit into the "Main Series" while keeping the distinction of the traditional formula as "Core Series".

Will GF experiment with past versions of mons a là regional variants?
This would be a good excuse to introduce new Pokemon. We haven't had a remake since the introduction of regional variants (Let's Go I'm not counting cause it restricted itself to just the original Pokemon + Meltan family). Remakes usually are allowed to do some retcons so would be wild to see a Sinnohian version of Gen II and III Pokemon (doubt we'd see Sinnohian versions of Pokemon past Gen V, though don't think it's implausible for Gen II and III, especially Gen II and it had a strong connection with Gen IV).

Pokémon isn’t about people. It’s about Pokémon. It’s in the name. Try to think of the name of one gen 6 gym leader.
Yeah, and can you believe they tried to make a mobile game that focused on the forgettable human characters? What a major flop that was...

Yes, Pokemon are the main focus of the franchise, obviously. However lt's not discount the human characters, notably the Gym Leaders due to their spoken-though-usually-not-shown roles are mentors to the player and important figures in the town & cities their the Gym Leaders of. And of course we got the Professors, Rivals, Champion, Elite Four, Villain Team also having important roles. Heck, when a casual person thinks about Pokemon it's not just Pikachu they think of but likely Ash too. The human element is important in Pokemon because YOU'RE playing as a human, you're interacting with the Pokemon as a human character. Many major themes of Pokemon is about the bond between people and Pokemon, that both help each other grow stronger.

BTW: Clemont, Viola, Grant, Ramos, Olympia, Wulfric... Valerie... what's the last one... oh, right Korrina. Sorry Korrina, but you're so easily walled by a Honedge I completely forgot you were a Gym Leader, maybe stick to being the Mega Successor.

BTW 2: If you want to play that game: name 6 Kanto Gym Leaders. Name 6 Champions. Name 6 Professors. Name 6 Rivals. Name 6 Villain Teams & their bosses. Etc.

So the weird thing in the screenshot...I'm not sure it is a pokemon.
Yeah, it just looks like a whole batch of particle effects to me.
 
Weapons are too dark but an invasion of a brutal foreign power that resulted in many deadly & bloody battles isn't?
It was the Mongol invasion that I was referring to as being too dark, not the weapons thing. Sorry about that; should have worded it better.

After reading some theories online, though, I think that the starters are simply supposed to represent the two most famous military roles in Japan at that time: the samurai and the shogun. Decidueye is a "traditional" stealthy archer samurai, Samurott is a "modern" honorable sword-wielding samurai, and Typhlosion is the shogun (its Japanese name, Bakphoon, sounds almost exactly like bakufu, the term used to refer to the administration of a shogun).

With Dawn & Lucas still being the main characters of Legends
...Dawn and Lucas aren't the main characters of Legends. At least, the Dawn and Lucas that we know and love aren't the main characters of Legends. The Legends protags are either the ancestors of Dawn and Lucas, or Dawn and Lucas are reincarnations of the Legends protags. I personally am leaning more towards the former though, as if the latter was true, it would literally be the Reincarnation Identifying Trait page on TV taken wayyyy too much to the extreme. But either way, these guys are not Dawn and Lucas.
 

Pikachu315111

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Hey don't looked at me weirdly, I've been seeing vid and comments of various people lately that they mostly value the risks it took, probably bc they dislike the current direction of the Sonic games. Game is still a rushed mess with SEGA only to blame, I think everyone knows that.
Alright, like I've seen plenty of playthroughs and heard commenters mention they saw the potential Sonic '06 had, though are then quick to point out it squandered. Also, as a casual Sonic fan, I've sort of noticed pattern many have where Sonic for some reason would have a streak of good games and then a streak of bad games and then repeat. We're sorta in a bad streak now (Sonic Lost World, Sonic Forces) but we did have a good Sonic game (Mania) mixed in so hopefully the bad streak isn't for long (though aside from the racing game and Mania updates they've been quite about the next Sonic game...).

It was the Mongol invasion that I was referring to as being too dark, not the weapons thing. Sorry about that; should have worded it better.
Oh, no, it's my bad, should of read my carefully. :blobthumbsup:

...Dawn and Lucas aren't the main characters of Legends. At least, the Dawn and Lucas that we know and love aren't the main characters of Legends. The Legends protags are either the ancestors of Dawn and Lucas, or Dawn and Lucas are reincarnations of the Legends protags. I personally am leaning more towards the former though, as if the latter was true, it would literally be the Reincarnation Identifying Trait page on TV taken wayyyy too much to the extreme. But either way, these guys are not Dawn and Lucas.
Ancestors or reincarnations, they still look like Dawn & Lucas and are the playable characters for a Sinnoh game. And that was my point with my theory this could have been originally a wild take on a remake but they changed so much they realized it wouldn't fly to made it its own game. As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see other notable characters ancestors/incarnation reappearing in some way fulfilling a similar role they had in their games.
 
So out of some of the leaked non-trailer screenshots, there's one that's really stumped me and quite a few others.

View attachment 319525
Aight, judging by the giant healthbar this seems like some sort of raid/boss encounter. That's not the big mystery here, though.

The real mystery... What the actual hell is this Pokemon? At a quick first glance I thought it was a Magmar but the more I stare at it the less I can tell what it's actually supposed to be. It's weird since every other screenshot leaked is pretty clear-cut, but this one's just an unrecognizable blotch in comparison.
It's a bug/dragon type.

EDIT:
Even today, Sonic 06 is remembered by some more fondly because of the direction it took, with technical difficulties being what holds it back the most. I hope the same mistakes don't repeat again for Legends.
By *who?!* I can't think of anyone who actually enjoyed that one.
 
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And where do you think the pig part likely came from?
Off the top of my head? the chinese zodiac
or know it could be just a pig

the point is Gamefreak already mentioned what Emboar's based on and they didn't mention Journey to the West, and they had no reason to omit it if it was indeed an inspiration

Hey don't looked at me weirdly, I've been seeing vid and comments of various people lately that they mostly value the risks it took, probably bc they dislike the current direction of the Sonic games. Game is still a rushed mess with SEGA only to blame, I think everyone knows that.
See, this is why you don't trust what youtubers tell you on their videos; a controversial take is bound to get more views (just ask Versilify)


also, you guys did notice that the symbol in the main characters' sleeves is the same as the flags in the office we were shown right?
and can we please stop associating it with team Plasma? they look nothing alike, they just have the same font
 
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Pikachu315111

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Off the top of my head? the chinese zodiac
or know it could be just a pig

the point is Gamefreak already mentioned what Emboar's based on and they didn't mention Journey to the West, and they had no reason to omit it if it was indeed an inspiration
Whether the Fire Starters are based on the Chinese Zodiac is a bit iffy at the moment considering certain members vaguely fitting but not quite (Cyndaquil isn't quite a mouse & Fennekin isn't quite a dog).

As for Emboar's relation to Zhu Bajie, just because they didn't mention it doesn't mean it wasn't an inspiration. I imagine the logic went like this:

1. Let's design all Unova starters to represent different groups of people (Snivy European, Tepig Chinese, Oshawott Japanese).
2. Let's base their final evos on famous fighters of that group (Serperior is Lady Oscar, Emboar is Zhang Fei, Samurott is... a samurai)
3. They decided they needed an animal basis so chose an animal likely on some relation to the groups of people (Serperior could be based on the basilisk that recent interpretation is a serpent creature; Emboar being Chinese they thought of another well known Chinese thing, Journey to the West, and since they already did Son Wukong for Infernape, they did the pig demon Zhu Bajie; and finally Samurott being an otter-seal was based on a zoo visit Yusuke Ohmura did).

also, you guys did notice that the symbol in the main characters' sleeves is the same as the flags in the office we were shown right?

and can we please stop associating it with team Plasma? they look nothing alike, they just have the same font
GigaGalactic.png

No, they're made specifically to look the exact same as the Team Galactic Logo and the Twitter says the Kanji translate to "Gigia" (which is the literal translation of Team Galactic's Japanese name, Gigia-Gang).

Now, my theory at the moment isn't that this has to do with Team Galactic per se, but rather we're likely going to learn that Team Galactic probably did their research and learned about this company/group and based themselves on them (possibly because we'll learn that they learned a few things about the legends of Sinnoh from researching them, likely the Red Chain). The player (or more likely the Professor) seems to be working/sponsored by this company to go out and make the first Pokedex, so any discoveries the player makes in the game will be made known by this company/group by the end.
 

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