What's your usual 3rd mon you pair with Ampharos + Skarmory?
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokemon Legends: Z-A Combat/PVP Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Count Bleck
- Start date
Been using Skarm, Chandelure (both wth mega orb) and Ampharos (shuca), but yeah, that's been a weak point! Sure, Skarmory can wall Garchomp for the most part, but I don't really have an answer for him. Wth Zygarde next season too, that ice move will be necessary. More so a water Pokémon wth an ice move over an ice Pokémon to avoid counters. So whichever Pokémon that may be, may replace Amphy and join the Skarm + Chand core
Last edited:
I saw Yveltal being good and on the rise and I was wondering if anyone had a team that uses it? I'd rather use that as my restricted as opposed to the deer and Zygarde.
Theorymon has been using LO Mixed Yveltal with Pikachu as a core; mixing in various 3rds like Houndoom lol. He can expand more on it!
Sets:
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 188 SpD
Brave Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Charge
- Thunderbolt
- Play Rough / Dig / Brick Break
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fly
- Dragon Rush
- Heat Wave
- Giga Impact
Pikachu’s EV spread is specifically to KO Yveltal with Tbolt, and lives stuff like non-LO Xern Moonblast or Stunfisk Earth Power after Charge.
Sets:
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 44 SpA / 188 SpD
Brave Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Charge
- Thunderbolt
- Play Rough / Dig / Brick Break
Yveltal @ Life Orb
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fly
- Dragon Rush
- Heat Wave
- Giga Impact
Pikachu’s EV spread is specifically to KO Yveltal with Tbolt, and lives stuff like non-LO Xern Moonblast or Stunfisk Earth Power after Charge.
Last edited:
Nice! Thank you!
I tried Substitute Zygarde to activate the mega more easily... And it didn't really work. Because Substitute doesn't remove 25% of your life, it was around 15%.
Using Substitute 4 times is not viable. Too long, for not enough. The only times I pulled an effective Mega activation was when I could use Protect against a Super Effective + move.
Back to Xerneas for me.
Using Substitute 4 times is not viable. Too long, for not enough. The only times I pulled an effective Mega activation was when I could use Protect against a Super Effective + move.
Back to Xerneas for me.
I've been trying to make Mega 
work, and while I've gotten better at using it, it's definitely as I predicted. It's clunky, and needs proper positioning and skill to use.
I found that it's best to pocket my Complete Zygarde, find a safe place where I'm not being targeted, and then Mega Evolve and use my Eclipse Cannon as a zoner. Immediately Mega Evolving in a frenzied battle is not at all the play. You'll be targeted and your hitbox is huge. I've also found that Endure AND Protect on the same set greatly boosts your survivability. You lose out on coverage, but I don't think Mega Zygarde really needs it. Nihil Light just obliterates everything it touches, even some resists. Having both protection moves helps dodge Glaceon's Ice Beam into Freeze Dry, and then you Shadow Realm it from there. Earth Power for the second attack to hit Steels. Since I'm running Endure anyway, I'm using
to get to Complete easier. Less bulk, and it's more enticing for foes to attack you. I tried 
, but I felt it took longer to get to Complete form than 10% did.
I also found that max SpA is definitely the way to go for Mega Zygarde, to guarantee the kill on pretty much every non-screens Xerneas you run into. After switching to that spread, I double killed two Xerneas with one shot.
Despite all that, while it's fun to click The Button, Mega Zygarde's not that good. It's not as bad as I thought it'd be, especially after getting to know it and to position it better, but even with that knowledge, your entire gameplan is to prepare for Mega Zygarde, and that means either keeping plus moves to a minimum, or none at all. If your Mega Zygarde dies, you have to dance the Complete Me dance again, and that's time not spent getting points with better options with immediate power. Also, Mega Zygarde is a magnet to just about everyone in the lobby. Once you're Mega'd, you're priority target #1. I wish Zygarde had a better special STAB spread move for close quarters combat. I'd definitely use that over Earth Power. It has Sludge Wave, but the coverage and lack of STAB are not great.
Overall, it's fun when it works, and frustrating when it doesn't.
work, and while I've gotten better at using it, it's definitely as I predicted. It's clunky, and needs proper positioning and skill to use.I found that it's best to pocket my Complete Zygarde, find a safe place where I'm not being targeted, and then Mega Evolve and use my Eclipse Cannon as a zoner. Immediately Mega Evolving in a frenzied battle is not at all the play. You'll be targeted and your hitbox is huge. I've also found that Endure AND Protect on the same set greatly boosts your survivability. You lose out on coverage, but I don't think Mega Zygarde really needs it. Nihil Light just obliterates everything it touches, even some resists. Having both protection moves helps dodge Glaceon's Ice Beam into Freeze Dry, and then you Shadow Realm it from there. Earth Power for the second attack to hit Steels. Since I'm running Endure anyway, I'm using
to get to Complete easier. Less bulk, and it's more enticing for foes to attack you. I tried , but I felt it took longer to get to Complete form than 10% did.I also found that max SpA is definitely the way to go for Mega Zygarde, to guarantee the kill on pretty much every non-screens Xerneas you run into. After switching to that spread, I double killed two Xerneas with one shot.
Despite all that, while it's fun to click The Button, Mega Zygarde's not that good. It's not as bad as I thought it'd be, especially after getting to know it and to position it better, but even with that knowledge, your entire gameplan is to prepare for Mega Zygarde, and that means either keeping plus moves to a minimum, or none at all. If your Mega Zygarde dies, you have to dance the Complete Me dance again, and that's time not spent getting points with better options with immediate power. Also, Mega Zygarde is a magnet to just about everyone in the lobby. Once you're Mega'd, you're priority target #1. I wish Zygarde had a better special STAB spread move for close quarters combat. I'd definitely use that over Earth Power. It has Sludge Wave, but the coverage and lack of STAB are not great.
Overall, it's fun when it works, and frustrating when it doesn't.
Sorry for the long wait! The third when I'm not messing around is Xerneas. It's the team I posted earlier in this thread:
https://pokepast.es/7f206618cc8eb98e
Pokepaste for those interested
Just completed my climb back up to rank A. After that and two more weeks with the team, here are some thoughts:
Ampharos @ Shuca Berry
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest
-Thunderbolt
-Charge
-Reflect
-Light Screen
Skarmory @ Skarmorite
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4SpD
Adamant
-Swords Dance
-Drill Run
-Fly
-Brave Bird
Xerneas @ Quick Claw
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest
-Moonblast
-Dazzling Gleam
-Thunderbolt
-Geomancy
- Still think this is a great team to get a good grip on the format. Spam screens and charge, have some fun with Xern, then maul people with Skarmory. It's pretty simple and effective.
- I think the team went X-4-1-0 overall for the new season climb. Didn't bother counting the total # of wins just out of lazy tracking everything.
- Again, I think that's a neat record, but in my opinion it's best to take the mode pretty chill. All the good play in the world doesn't matter if you're on hallway and a player who knows what they're doing and an easily murdered child are on the other side...
- Ampharos is ridiculous. Skarmory is ridiculous. My god, you just run people over all day with Skarmory. If you want a good taste for what's really powerful in this game mode, give this one a try.
- Brave Bird + Fly is the truth. The big murder charge with Brave Bird is too good to pass up. The invuln to dodge Thunderbolts from Fly is so valuable. I miss my dear Aerial Ace, but they're just too good to put down.
- Sub in Xerneas with whatever other restricted or experiments you want. The team is a little vulnerable to Fire-types and isn't thrilled to do the Ampharos into Skarmory switch vs grounds, so maybe focus on that. It doesn't look like a terrible Zygarde fit if you want to try it.
Regarding the new Season 3 Meta:
- Zygarde felt about as intimidating as a Diancie (basically not at all) whenever it was on the field. It's slow and awkward to get going. Everything's still young, but I would not be surprised to see we're dealing with less a new Xerneas and more a new Aegislash.
- I don't think you should be running the thousand waves trapping stuff. You are setting up other kills for people. Saw it once and all it did was set the both of us up for a Delphox Heat Wave KO.
- I saw 2 Mega Zygardes fire Nihil light. One shot it twice and got two kills and then we didn't see it for the rest of the game. Another died doing its first.
- I saw more Mega Gallades than I did Mega Zygardes. The Mega Gallades picked up more kills.
- Everything that is good in Season 2 is mostly the same in Season 3. Just saw a little uptick in Glaceon and even a Vanilluxe and Frosslass. The scope lens dopes live on...
- Excadrill is still so bad. Please stop using it. It doesn't do anything you want it to.
Finally and most importantly:
hallway is the worst map in the game!!!
Last edited:
Could Yveltal over Xerneas be alright? I'm currently using Amph, Mixed Yveltal, and Mega Scolipode.Sorry for the long wait! The third when I'm not messing around is Xerneas. It's the team I posted earlier in this thread:
https://pokepast.es/7f206618cc8eb98e
Pokepaste for those interested
Just completed my climb back up to rank A. After that and two more weeks with the team, here are some thoughts:
- Still think this is a great team to get a good grip on the format. Spam screens and charge, have some fun with Xern, then maul people with Skarmory. It's pretty simple and effective.
- I think the team went X-4-1-0 overall for the new season climb. Didn't bother counting the total # of wins just out of lazy tracking everything.
- Again, I think that's a neat record, but in my opinion it's best to take the mode pretty chill. All the good play in the world doesn't matter if you're on hallway and a player who knows what they're doing and an easily murdered child are on the other side...
- Ampharos is ridiculous. Skarmory is ridiculous. My god, you just run people over all day with Skarmory. If you want a good taste for what's really powerful in this game mode, give this one a try.
- Brave Bird + Fly is the truth. The big murder charge with Brave Bird is too good to pass up. The invuln to dodge Thunderbolts from Fly is so valuable. I miss my dear Aerial Ace, but they're just too good to put down.
- Sub in Xerneas with whatever other restricted or experiments you want. The team is a little vulnerable to Fire-types and isn't thrilled to do the Ampharos into Skarmory switch vs grounds, so maybe focus on that. It doesn't look like a terrible Zygarde fit if you want to try it.
Regarding the new Season 3 Meta:
- Zygarde about as intimidating as a Diancie (basically not at all) whenever it was on the field. It's slow and awkward to get going. Everything's still young, but I would not be surprised to see we're dealing with less a new Xerneas and more a new Aegislash.
- I don't think you should be running the thousand waves trapping stuff. You are setting up other kills for people. Saw it once and all it did was set the both of us up for a Delphox Heat Wave KO.
- I saw 2 Mega Zygardes fire Nihil light. One shot it twice and got two kills and then we didn't see it for the rest of the game. Another died doing its first.
- I saw more Mega Gallades than I did Mega Zygardes. The Mega Gallades picked up more kills.
- Everything that is good in Season 2 is mostly the same in Season 3. Just saw a little uptick in Glaceon and even a Vanilluxe and Frosslass. The scope lens dopes live on...
- Excadrill is still so bad. Please stop using it. It doesn't do anything you want it to.
Finally and most importantly:
hallway is the worst map in the game!!!
I've been trying Mega Zygarde a lot, and while I don't think it's top tier... it feels like a puzzle to solve because when it pops off, it feels like it goes into this sicko mode where it gets like 4-5 KOs before going down!
I agree that Endure and Zygarde-10% is the best way to use it. I've been using 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 SpD mainly because with Reflect up, Zygarde-C can actually survive Garchomp AFTER Power Construct which is sorta nuts lol. For the record this is the set I've been using:
Zygarde @ Zygardite
Modest Nature
44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 SpD
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Endure
I use Dragon Pulse mainly just for quick Garchomp kills because Nihil Light feels like overkill lol
So while it's clunky, the best results I seem to be having with it is pairing it with an "offensive dual screener". By that I mean, I've been using a Life Orb dual screens Delphox as a way to try and mess with ice types and metagross lol. I feel like a dual screener that goes all in doesn't feel great just because it makes the team even more reliant on Mega Zygarde, having a dual screener with some bite feels like the play.
This is the Delphox set I've been using. It's been XS but I might switch to Alpha for the bigger Heat Wave. It's nothing crazy but it feels like a rare dual screener that is very capable of actually getting KOs on its own when Zygarde shouldn't be coming out. I should note too contrary to what you may expect, I often Endure and then Mega Evolve Zygarde BEFORE getting dual screens up in certain periods of the game. Idea is, with all the invincibility frames, I then switch Mega Zygarde out to the dual screener so position myself better!
Delphox @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Heat Wave
- Psyshock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
I've been a maniac and even tried it with TWO dual screeners (a small size Metagross with Heavy Slam / Ice Punch and Expert Belt specifically to make it less of a heat wave collateral damage bonus target lol, you'd be surprised how much smaller non alpha metagross is!). It's "worked", but currently I'm looking into a back up offensive option to use with dual screens Delphox. I've also tried LO Slowking to give an idea, and Weakness Policy Froslass, but so far the best "offensive dual screener" with Mega Zygarde has def felt like Delphox.
Now as for regular Zygarde... I think this mon is actually better than you may expect! However the set is gonna seem... really odd, but its a set I HAVE seen other folks win with before!
Zygarde @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
44 Def / 252 Atk / 212 SpD
- Land's Wrath
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
I realize this may seem absurd: really Life Orb on a base 100 Atk mon? The secret sauce however is... Land's Wrath of ALL things! Gamefreak must have felt bad for this move, because in this game, Land's Wrath is a fast and massive physical Earth Power! Its fast and big enough that I've found if you keep Zygarde in the back, it can legit snipe quicker than a lot of folks can switch out. Even folks that switch out in time are often STILL getting hit because Land's Wrath is just weirdly massive. Cool thing is, since this Zygarde is more about stealing kills with snipes, the poor movement Speed and "I MUST POWER CONSTRUCT" don't feel like as much of a hindrance.
Extreme Speed may seem silly, but it lets Zygarde actually sneak up and kill Sash Garchomp pretty effectively and gets around that sucky speed before you Power Construct. I did try Thousand Waves, and while "EQ that traps" is cool, I think that might be best left to Sash Zygarde-10% because Extreme Speed stealing sash kills is too useful.
From day 1 so far, I actually really don't think Zygarde is a Diancie situation. Don't get me wrong I think Xerneas and Yveltal are still the best two restricteds and are easier to use, but between LO Zygarde being a surprisingly good kill stealer and Mega Zygarde... sometmes going nuts, I THINK Zygarde is a puzzle that's still worth solving right now!
I agree that Endure and Zygarde-10% is the best way to use it. I've been using 44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 SpD mainly because with Reflect up, Zygarde-C can actually survive Garchomp AFTER Power Construct which is sorta nuts lol. For the record this is the set I've been using:
Zygarde @ Zygardite
Modest Nature
44 Def / 252 SpA / 212 SpD
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Endure
I use Dragon Pulse mainly just for quick Garchomp kills because Nihil Light feels like overkill lol
So while it's clunky, the best results I seem to be having with it is pairing it with an "offensive dual screener". By that I mean, I've been using a Life Orb dual screens Delphox as a way to try and mess with ice types and metagross lol. I feel like a dual screener that goes all in doesn't feel great just because it makes the team even more reliant on Mega Zygarde, having a dual screener with some bite feels like the play.
This is the Delphox set I've been using. It's been XS but I might switch to Alpha for the bigger Heat Wave. It's nothing crazy but it feels like a rare dual screener that is very capable of actually getting KOs on its own when Zygarde shouldn't be coming out. I should note too contrary to what you may expect, I often Endure and then Mega Evolve Zygarde BEFORE getting dual screens up in certain periods of the game. Idea is, with all the invincibility frames, I then switch Mega Zygarde out to the dual screener so position myself better!
Delphox @ Life Orb
Modest Nature
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
- Heat Wave
- Psyshock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
I've been a maniac and even tried it with TWO dual screeners (a small size Metagross with Heavy Slam / Ice Punch and Expert Belt specifically to make it less of a heat wave collateral damage bonus target lol, you'd be surprised how much smaller non alpha metagross is!). It's "worked", but currently I'm looking into a back up offensive option to use with dual screens Delphox. I've also tried LO Slowking to give an idea, and Weakness Policy Froslass, but so far the best "offensive dual screener" with Mega Zygarde has def felt like Delphox.
Now as for regular Zygarde... I think this mon is actually better than you may expect! However the set is gonna seem... really odd, but its a set I HAVE seen other folks win with before!
Zygarde @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
44 Def / 252 Atk / 212 SpD
- Land's Wrath
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
I realize this may seem absurd: really Life Orb on a base 100 Atk mon? The secret sauce however is... Land's Wrath of ALL things! Gamefreak must have felt bad for this move, because in this game, Land's Wrath is a fast and massive physical Earth Power! Its fast and big enough that I've found if you keep Zygarde in the back, it can legit snipe quicker than a lot of folks can switch out. Even folks that switch out in time are often STILL getting hit because Land's Wrath is just weirdly massive. Cool thing is, since this Zygarde is more about stealing kills with snipes, the poor movement Speed and "I MUST POWER CONSTRUCT" don't feel like as much of a hindrance.
Extreme Speed may seem silly, but it lets Zygarde actually sneak up and kill Sash Garchomp pretty effectively and gets around that sucky speed before you Power Construct. I did try Thousand Waves, and while "EQ that traps" is cool, I think that might be best left to Sash Zygarde-10% because Extreme Speed stealing sash kills is too useful.
From day 1 so far, I actually really don't think Zygarde is a Diancie situation. Don't get me wrong I think Xerneas and Yveltal are still the best two restricteds and are easier to use, but between LO Zygarde being a surprisingly good kill stealer and Mega Zygarde... sometmes going nuts, I THINK Zygarde is a puzzle that's still worth solving right now!
Last edited:
I got to Rank A, using some form of Zygarde the entire time.
I initially started using Jibaku's AV set along with a Mega Metagross and a Glaceon. I liked the utility Thousand Waves provided, trapping foes in so that my Metagross and Glaceon could pick up the kills vs whatever was trapped. Used that for a couple matches.
I then wanted to try Mega Zygarde, because I wanted to send people to the Shadow Realm. After some set tweaks, this was what I came up with:
Zygarde-10% @ Zygardite
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Endure
- Protect
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
I was initially running my own Mega Zygarde with a screener, but I wasn't doing it right, running a Clefable with both screens. It simply wasn't explosive enough. Theorymon definitely has the right idea where an offensive screener like Delphox is the wave. Mega Zygarde already needs a ton of setup, and spending time just throwing out weak Moonblasts wasn't netting me points.
Instead, I took a different approach, and used SD Charcoal
and CM Life Orb 
instead, two offensive threats that consistently got kills while I charged my mega meter. Since I wasn't running screens anymore, I thought of Endure AND Protect on my Zygarde as I mentioned in my earlier post, and I quite like the safety nets those two give me. Endure gives 10% Zygarde the path to Complete form, and Protect is a secondary shield when things got hot.
The EVs are where things get interesting. Max SpA scores the cleanest OHKO on a Pokemon I've ever seen in my life:
252+ SpA Zygarde-Mega Nihil Light+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas: 234-274 (100.4 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The Speed is the secret sauce. That exact investment lowers Zygarde's cooldowns by a whole second, notably turning Nihil Light from an 11.5 second cooldown to 10.5, and Earth Power goes off every 3.5 seconds. Considering how much of a magnet Mega Zygarde is to attack, I felt every second counted, and I was shocked by how fast my Zygarde was throwing off moves. While my Nihil Light was charging, I used Protect and Endure when necessary to pad out the time for Nihil Light to finish, and I was able to use the laser quite a few times per match this way. I made up for the lack of bulk by always being aware of what's going on around me, timing the Mega Evolution and the usage of Nihil Light just right.
Am I claiming this is the best way to use Mega Zygarde? Nah. Screens + bulk investment seems more consistent and safer, but this was a pretty fun build. Mega Zygarde is definitely a skill mon that tests your knowledge on this game's mechanics, as well as positioning and situational awareness. It's kinda like using a Sniper Rifle in an FPS game. Very hard to use and master (depending on the game lol), but a skilled player will go stupid with it.
I definitelt want to shift to other non-Mega Zygarde sets. That Life Orb set Theorymon posted seems cool! I also agree that Zygarde in general very likely has a lot of hidden tech that'll make it a lot better than we thought!
I initially started using Jibaku's AV set along with a Mega Metagross and a Glaceon. I liked the utility Thousand Waves provided, trapping foes in so that my Metagross and Glaceon could pick up the kills vs whatever was trapped. Used that for a couple matches.
I then wanted to try Mega Zygarde, because I wanted to send people to the Shadow Realm. After some set tweaks, this was what I came up with:
Zygarde-10% @ Zygardite
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Endure
- Protect
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
I was initially running my own Mega Zygarde with a screener, but I wasn't doing it right, running a Clefable with both screens. It simply wasn't explosive enough. Theorymon definitely has the right idea where an offensive screener like Delphox is the wave. Mega Zygarde already needs a ton of setup, and spending time just throwing out weak Moonblasts wasn't netting me points.
Instead, I took a different approach, and used SD Charcoal
and CM Life Orb instead, two offensive threats that consistently got kills while I charged my mega meter. Since I wasn't running screens anymore, I thought of Endure AND Protect on my Zygarde as I mentioned in my earlier post, and I quite like the safety nets those two give me. Endure gives 10% Zygarde the path to Complete form, and Protect is a secondary shield when things got hot.The EVs are where things get interesting. Max SpA scores the cleanest OHKO on a Pokemon I've ever seen in my life:
252+ SpA Zygarde-Mega Nihil Light+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas: 234-274 (100.4 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The Speed is the secret sauce. That exact investment lowers Zygarde's cooldowns by a whole second, notably turning Nihil Light from an 11.5 second cooldown to 10.5, and Earth Power goes off every 3.5 seconds. Considering how much of a magnet Mega Zygarde is to attack, I felt every second counted, and I was shocked by how fast my Zygarde was throwing off moves. While my Nihil Light was charging, I used Protect and Endure when necessary to pad out the time for Nihil Light to finish, and I was able to use the laser quite a few times per match this way. I made up for the lack of bulk by always being aware of what's going on around me, timing the Mega Evolution and the usage of Nihil Light just right.
Am I claiming this is the best way to use Mega Zygarde? Nah. Screens + bulk investment seems more consistent and safer, but this was a pretty fun build. Mega Zygarde is definitely a skill mon that tests your knowledge on this game's mechanics, as well as positioning and situational awareness. It's kinda like using a Sniper Rifle in an FPS game. Very hard to use and master (depending on the game lol), but a skilled player will go stupid with it.
I definitelt want to shift to other non-Mega Zygarde sets. That Life Orb set Theorymon posted seems cool! I also agree that Zygarde in general very likely has a lot of hidden tech that'll make it a lot better than we thought!
The one time I don't want a lamp post blocking an opponent's attack and this happens. I hate this stupid dog so much dude.
After the above posts raising some interesting ways to play Zygarde, I decided to see what life was like on the other side. Flat out, Theorymon is better at Pokemon than I am and if he thinks there's sauce there, there's probably sauce there. I still think he's right.
So, I buckled down and tried to find a team. I gave Chandelure and Delphox an honest whirl, and they synergize with it pretty nicely! Yet, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't ever get over this feeling I'm only playing with two Pokemon and sometimes I get a third if everyone's distracted. I'm almost not sure if it feels different enough to me than like your typical high roll mega moment with Charizard or Skarmory, where you just go bam bam bam point point point.
And the worst part is, right when I'm about to quit, right when I'm about to put the game down, Zygarde gets to shoot the fattest beam attack and makes it all feel worth it. My god is it a cool beam. My god is it not fun when their switch invincibility bypasses it. I can't tell if this is a puzzle that needs solving or if I'm playing a carney game where all those allegedly fragile bottles are glued together. The only thing I know for certain is I am not having fun using this dog.
I don't doubt there's something real here, but I can't weather the storm to this promised dog zone. I keep getting punched in the cannon-dick by Ice Punch Machamps, how are there so many Brick Break Ice Punch Machamps!?
Now we're getting to the point where people online know you're just fishing for Endure and just let you awkwardly sniff around them like an actual dog waiting to be let out the door. Everyone else is getting kills and I'm trapped in the dog pen. Then I engage with an Excadrill and it's a Quick Claw user and Endure doesn't come out before Zygarde's dead.
There have been some pretty neat Zygarde 50% builds I've seen here and in the discord. I'm probably trying those next since they look more pseudo-Garchomp than anything, and Garchomp's the best Pokemon in the game right now. I can't recommend the mega, but maybe it's just a playstyle thing, or me being so used to other Pokemon I'm playing this stuff wrong. Maybe your third eye will open up and your soul will learn how to shake hands or roll over. I wish others the best finding the right shell for this thing. I can't keep going. I long for my sheep and my sword bird and their rainbow god elk. Stupid dog, you made me look bad.
After the above posts raising some interesting ways to play Zygarde, I decided to see what life was like on the other side. Flat out, Theorymon is better at Pokemon than I am and if he thinks there's sauce there, there's probably sauce there. I still think he's right.
So, I buckled down and tried to find a team. I gave Chandelure and Delphox an honest whirl, and they synergize with it pretty nicely! Yet, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't ever get over this feeling I'm only playing with two Pokemon and sometimes I get a third if everyone's distracted. I'm almost not sure if it feels different enough to me than like your typical high roll mega moment with Charizard or Skarmory, where you just go bam bam bam point point point.
And the worst part is, right when I'm about to quit, right when I'm about to put the game down, Zygarde gets to shoot the fattest beam attack and makes it all feel worth it. My god is it a cool beam. My god is it not fun when their switch invincibility bypasses it. I can't tell if this is a puzzle that needs solving or if I'm playing a carney game where all those allegedly fragile bottles are glued together. The only thing I know for certain is I am not having fun using this dog.
I don't doubt there's something real here, but I can't weather the storm to this promised dog zone. I keep getting punched in the cannon-dick by Ice Punch Machamps, how are there so many Brick Break Ice Punch Machamps!?
Now we're getting to the point where people online know you're just fishing for Endure and just let you awkwardly sniff around them like an actual dog waiting to be let out the door. Everyone else is getting kills and I'm trapped in the dog pen. Then I engage with an Excadrill and it's a Quick Claw user and Endure doesn't come out before Zygarde's dead.
There have been some pretty neat Zygarde 50% builds I've seen here and in the discord. I'm probably trying those next since they look more pseudo-Garchomp than anything, and Garchomp's the best Pokemon in the game right now. I can't recommend the mega, but maybe it's just a playstyle thing, or me being so used to other Pokemon I'm playing this stuff wrong. Maybe your third eye will open up and your soul will learn how to shake hands or roll over. I wish others the best finding the right shell for this thing. I can't keep going. I long for my sheep and my sword bird and their rainbow god elk. Stupid dog, you made me look bad.
Last edited:
This is where I recommend Endure and Protect for Mega Zygarde. Something you could try in this situation is to Protect first. That should make your enemy believe you just blew your one protection move, and when that Xerneas fires its Moonblast at you, Endure.
I managed to get Rank A after a few hours of grinding, and so far, I think my time there was pretty good. I was surprised I didn’t see many players using Zygarde, maybe because people are still building it, or because they feel the effort to pull its mega off isn't worth it.
Either way, I have decided to use the following for my team: Xerneas, Chandelure, and Garchomp.
Xerneas @ Babiri Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
I use Xerneas as a Geomancy sweeper. I selected Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam to guarantee dragons don't survive, since Garchomp may sometimes withstand an unboosted hit. Dazzling Gleam also hits multiple targets. Thunderbolt counters water Pokémon that threaten Chandelure and Garchomp with Ice moves.
I did have Life Orb on Xerneas to give it even more offensive power, but the rise of steels like Metagross has led me to use Babiri Berry, which allows Xerneas to set up safely, then strike back with Thunderbolt. The only problem I see is that it can struggle against Excadrill, but I rarely see it as a threat.
Chandelure @ Shuca Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Overheat
- Calm Mind
I chose Chandelure for its reliable Fire typing against Steel-types and its ability to absorb Poison-type attacks from Scolipede and Beedrill. Shuca Berry helps it survive super effective hits from Metagross, Skarmory, Excadrill, and Mega Beedrill. It can endure an unboosted Earthquake from Garchomp, although Chandelure can’t retaliate effectively. I also use Chandelure as a soft check against Xerneas, as it resists Moonblast and can bulk its special defense with Calm Mind. This could deter Xerneas from sweeping against my Chandelure and running away. However, whilst it can hit Xerneas with a combination of Heat Wave + Overheat, it won’t take it down reliably, so I don’t expect it to be a counter against the deer.
I sometimes place Chandelure in close-range battles at the wrong times, risking counters from Pokémon it should check when they use super effective moves like Earthquake. I need to remember to withdraw Chandelure in those situations. I tried leading with Chandelure since most leads were Metagross or Xerneas. However, the hallway stage often leaves it vulnerable to threats, highlighting its vulnerability in close quarters, except for Overheat.
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Poison Jab
Garchomp is my close-range Steel check, pairing well with Chandelure’s fire range attacks. Focus Sash lets Garchomp survive hits from Metagross, Xerneas, or Zygarde, and retaliate with the right move like Earthquake, Poison Jab, or Dragon Rush respectively.
I can’t remember how many battles I entered in Season 3, but I do remember I didn’t get 1st place 5 times: 3 times was 2nd place, and 2 times was dead last. That being said, I do think it’s more valuable to learn from your losses and wins than to focus on the results themselves, as you can gain more insights from them.
I do think there are some that can pose a problem to my team:
Overall, I did have fun playing Season 3 ranked. I might try out new mons to better match up against other mons and get the type titles.
Either way, I have decided to use the following for my team: Xerneas, Chandelure, and Garchomp.
Xerneas @ Babiri Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
I use Xerneas as a Geomancy sweeper. I selected Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam to guarantee dragons don't survive, since Garchomp may sometimes withstand an unboosted hit. Dazzling Gleam also hits multiple targets. Thunderbolt counters water Pokémon that threaten Chandelure and Garchomp with Ice moves.
I did have Life Orb on Xerneas to give it even more offensive power, but the rise of steels like Metagross has led me to use Babiri Berry, which allows Xerneas to set up safely, then strike back with Thunderbolt. The only problem I see is that it can struggle against Excadrill, but I rarely see it as a threat.
Chandelure @ Shuca Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Overheat
- Calm Mind
I chose Chandelure for its reliable Fire typing against Steel-types and its ability to absorb Poison-type attacks from Scolipede and Beedrill. Shuca Berry helps it survive super effective hits from Metagross, Skarmory, Excadrill, and Mega Beedrill. It can endure an unboosted Earthquake from Garchomp, although Chandelure can’t retaliate effectively. I also use Chandelure as a soft check against Xerneas, as it resists Moonblast and can bulk its special defense with Calm Mind. This could deter Xerneas from sweeping against my Chandelure and running away. However, whilst it can hit Xerneas with a combination of Heat Wave + Overheat, it won’t take it down reliably, so I don’t expect it to be a counter against the deer.
I sometimes place Chandelure in close-range battles at the wrong times, risking counters from Pokémon it should check when they use super effective moves like Earthquake. I need to remember to withdraw Chandelure in those situations. I tried leading with Chandelure since most leads were Metagross or Xerneas. However, the hallway stage often leaves it vulnerable to threats, highlighting its vulnerability in close quarters, except for Overheat.
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Rush
- Poison Jab
Garchomp is my close-range Steel check, pairing well with Chandelure’s fire range attacks. Focus Sash lets Garchomp survive hits from Metagross, Xerneas, or Zygarde, and retaliate with the right move like Earthquake, Poison Jab, or Dragon Rush respectively.
I can’t remember how many battles I entered in Season 3, but I do remember I didn’t get 1st place 5 times: 3 times was 2nd place, and 2 times was dead last. That being said, I do think it’s more valuable to learn from your losses and wins than to focus on the results themselves, as you can gain more insights from them.
I do think there are some that can pose a problem to my team:
- Xerneas - Threatens my Garchomp and at best poses a neutral match against my Xerneas, unless they also pack Flash Cannon. Chandelure could handle Xerneas, but if they got their geomancy set up before Chandelure sets up with Calm Mind, it will almost faint to a combo of Thunderbolt + Moonblast. This is my biggest obstacle, as the best counter I have against Xerneas is to be somewhere else.
- Garchomp - Xerneas beats Garchomp, but it’s gotta watch out for Poison Jab or even Iron Tail. It beats Chandelure and poses a mirror-match problem for my Garchomp.
- Water Types - Threaten Chandelure, and they always carry Ice Beam to take down a chipped Garchomp.
Overall, I did have fun playing Season 3 ranked. I might try out new mons to better match up against other mons and get the type titles.
Last edited:
I'm kinda just rambling here.
I haven't started yet, but I'm leaning toward some variation of Mega Metagross or Skarmory + LO SD Garchomp or Expert Belt Gyarados + CM or Geo Xerneas like I used last season. I still hope that they get rid of Xerneas in a future season... if the Pokémon was in Ubers before and would still be in a mainline game, something just feels wrong about it being in this.
I really dislike Skarmory. I always have, even back in the GSC days when I was just a kid. I'd rather not use it, but it's a tempting option for the omnipresent Garchomp. Earthquake hurts!
I really wish we had Dragon Dance for Gyarados. My favorite Pokémon probably needs to stay on the sidelines this time. I'd love to use non-Mega Starmie, too, but that base 100 SpA is just so subpar. The coverage is exceptional, but it doesn't deal enough damage to KO and dies to a light breeze in this generation.
I trained up Glaceon, but man, I'm just not a fan of Eeveelutions in general. I liked Jolteon back in RSE and that's about it. Still, I'll probably give it a shot.
Has anyone had luck with other non-Metagross, non-Skarmory, non-Excadrill Steel Pokémon? I love Scizor and Mega Scizor, but I feel like it lacks the coverage to be as threatening as Metagross even though it has SD. No Technician makes me sad.
I haven't started yet, but I'm leaning toward some variation of Mega Metagross or Skarmory + LO SD Garchomp or Expert Belt Gyarados + CM or Geo Xerneas like I used last season. I still hope that they get rid of Xerneas in a future season... if the Pokémon was in Ubers before and would still be in a mainline game, something just feels wrong about it being in this.
I really dislike Skarmory. I always have, even back in the GSC days when I was just a kid. I'd rather not use it, but it's a tempting option for the omnipresent Garchomp. Earthquake hurts!
I really wish we had Dragon Dance for Gyarados. My favorite Pokémon probably needs to stay on the sidelines this time. I'd love to use non-Mega Starmie, too, but that base 100 SpA is just so subpar. The coverage is exceptional, but it doesn't deal enough damage to KO and dies to a light breeze in this generation.
I trained up Glaceon, but man, I'm just not a fan of Eeveelutions in general. I liked Jolteon back in RSE and that's about it. Still, I'll probably give it a shot.
Has anyone had luck with other non-Metagross, non-Skarmory, non-Excadrill Steel Pokémon? I love Scizor and Mega Scizor, but I feel like it lacks the coverage to be as threatening as Metagross even though it has SD. No Technician makes me sad.
I enjoy using
Mega Steelix is another alternative that has Curse, but it’s just not as strong as the other Steels, it’s really slow, and I personally dislike its Water weakness and Ice neutrality more than Mega Aggron’s 4x weaknesses. Maybe you can make it work, though.
My usual Mega / Life Orb Scizor set is SD, Steel Wing, Night Slash, and Brick Break. It’s not as initially explosive or consistent as Metagross, but I like its typing, and the listed moves give it its best coverage possible in this meta. Lunge is nice, too, and I’ve had success combining that with Rocky Helmet and Curse to take on physical threats better.
You also mention you’re not an Eevee fan, so a nice alternative to Glaceon is Vanilluxe. It also has Freeze Dry along with Ice Beam.
Last edited:
Uh, Mega Aggron loses the Rock type of regular Aggron, it is weak to Fire.
I was clearly talking about its base form, BUDDY.
I'll honestly probably try out Glaceon, anyway. I know it's brutal against Garchomp, Gyarados, and Zygarde. I'm not quite sure where I'll put it, though.
I kinda want to have something to dodge ground attacks and Garchomp in general, which I guess would probably have to be Mega Skarmory. I imagine I'd I have to run Steel Wing to give it a chance against Xerneas, so I'd probably go with SD + Steel Wing + Drill Run + Fly. I prefer Mega Metagross's coverage. BoltBeam Punches + Heavy Slam + Earthquake? Yes, please! Besides, I still have bad memories of all the obnoxious SkarmBlissTarAchi teams from Gen 4
Does anyone else practically refuse to use certain Pokémon because of memes or annoying teams they've faced in the past?
I’ve given a bunch of these a whirl. Your mileage may vary:
Lucario probably has the best niche as a Steel, outside of the Metagross/Skarmory/Excadrill trio you mentioned. Sash @ Brick Break / Ice Punch / Iron Tail / Swords Dance is a good screen clearer with a nice matchup into Xern and Chomper, and has competent movement speed to boot.
Mega Luke… This thing is awful; it’s too frail, and any conceivable offensive prowess it has is outdone by more splashable mons. Maybe if DLC introduces a need for Fighting mons…
Scizor and Mega Scizor I’ll pair together since they do the same thing, and the Mega is a strict upgrade over the original due to its movement speed matching the likes of Xerneas/Yveltal. In any case, Scizor just employs a typical SD set with options such as Lunge, Iron Head, and Bullet Punch… and therein lies its issue as you alluded to. Its moves are mostly mediocre and short-ranged, and it gets fried by a lot of the sniping coverage stuff running around. Mega Scizor having the ability to follow-up properly due to its movement speed makes the aforementioned short-range drawback more workable, but it’s still a Mega that’s not very splashable, and you need to build with this in mind.
Aggron is cool - decent movement speed, Head Smash hits really hard, Heavy Slam can gap close, has Ice Punch for Dragons, and the Mega’s mono-Steel typing allows it to brawl with physical attackers well. Its biggest issues are that its Heavy Slams are a paltry 40 BP against Xern, so it has to be supplanted with another Xern answer (potentially stacking weaknesses), and is snipe food.
Steelix trades the movement speed of Aggron for STAB Dig / EQ, the ability to run Curse more viably since it’s a slow pos, good Heavy Slams into Xern, and a TBolt immunity. Drawbacks… needs to Mega to be usable, is super snipe food, and its slowness means things can just choose to not engage with it.
Doublade is a decent niche mon - it’s essentially unkillable on the physical side, and has a variety of options on its Swords Dance set, such as: Reflect, Close Combat or Brick Break, Iron Head, Shadow Claw, and Shadow Sneak. It’s very slow, and still gets sniped by things, but hey that’s the way it goes.
Mawile is obviously Mawile. Mega Mawile… has a slight animation that requires it to turn around when it attacks, delaying its attacks and making its otherwise great Atk stat suffer as a result. Has decent movement speed, and has Play Rough to gap close and neutralize Yveltal, so it’s not completely hopeless!
Klefki is a dual screener that moves as fast as Avalugg, and does 70% to base Aerodactyl with a Modest, Max SpA Flash Cannon.
Yea.
Aegislash is a Pokémon.
Going to vouch for the effectiveness of Focus Sash Lucario when I was testing out Pikachu + Yveltal last season. Solid duelist that can combat the metagame-defining threats effectively enough and, given its speed and regular size, can steal some KOs between an ongoing one-on-one.
On another note, I heavily enjoy the multiplayer mode, so much that I’m fine playing deep into the more competitive hours of the day, but the latency issues are a real drag, which feel like a constant issue of any multiplayer Nintendo game I play. There have been too many times where my Pokemon get KOed even though the game says I switched it out, so I have to adapt by switching earlier than I think I should.
Think I may go Clawitzer/Glaceon in place of Ampharos here, though I may miss the screens. Or in place of Chandelure, but there goes my clear answer for steel pkmn, even though Clawitzer (if I go with it) will have Focus Blast (the fun of team building lol)
Last edited:
So random question, but can Glaceon be over Vaporeon or do you need that water coverage?I got to Rank A, using some form of Zygarde the entire time.
I initially started using Jibaku's AV set along with a Mega Metagross and a Glaceon. I liked the utility Thousand Waves provided, trapping foes in so that my Metagross and Glaceon could pick up the kills vs whatever was trapped. Used that for a couple matches.
I then wanted to try Mega Zygarde, because I wanted to send people to the Shadow Realm. After some set tweaks, this was what I came up with:
Zygarde-10% @ Zygardite
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
- Endure
- Protect
- Core Enforcer
- Earth Power
I was initially running my own Mega Zygarde with a screener, but I wasn't doing it right, running a Clefable with both screens. It simply wasn't explosive enough. Theorymon definitely has the right idea where an offensive screener like Delphox is the wave. Mega Zygarde already needs a ton of setup, and spending time just throwing out weak Moonblasts wasn't netting me points.
Instead, I took a different approach, and used SD Charcoal
The EVs are where things get interesting. Max SpA scores the cleanest OHKO on a Pokemon I've ever seen in my life:
252+ SpA Zygarde-Mega Nihil Light+ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas: 234-274 (100.4 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The Speed is the secret sauce. That exact investment lowers Zygarde's cooldowns by a whole second, notably turning Nihil Light from an 11.5 second cooldown to 10.5, and Earth Power goes off every 3.5 seconds. Considering how much of a magnet Mega Zygarde is to attack, I felt every second counted, and I was shocked by how fast my Zygarde was throwing off moves. While my Nihil Light was charging, I used Protect and Endure when necessary to pad out the time for Nihil Light to finish, and I was able to use the laser quite a few times per match this way. I made up for the lack of bulk by always being aware of what's going on around me, timing the Mega Evolution and the usage of Nihil Light just right.
Am I claiming this is the best way to use Mega Zygarde? Nah. Screens + bulk investment seems more consistent and safer, but this was a pretty fun build. Mega Zygarde is definitely a skill mon that tests your knowledge on this game's mechanics, as well as positioning and situational awareness. It's kinda like using a Sniper Rifle in an FPS game. Very hard to use and master (depending on the game lol), but a skilled player will go stupid with it.
I definitelt want to shift to other non-Mega Zygarde sets. That Life Orb set Theorymon posted seems cool! I also agree that Zygarde in general very likely has a lot of hidden tech that'll make it a lot better than we thought!
I chose Vaporeon for the defensive utility its bulk + Water-typing brought to a team with a Fire-type and a 4x Ice-weak mon on it. Without it, I lacked a Water-resist. After a Calm Mind, Plus Ice Beam is usually strong enough to pick up the kills it wants to, whether it's non-Sash Garchomp, other Zygarde, even some 2x Ice-weaks that are a bit chipped. It was also nice to have something for Fire-types while I was preparing Mega Zygarde.
To answer your question, I can see Glaceon being a good offensive alternative with much stronger Ice Beams, and Freeze Dry improves the Gyarados matchup. However, be careful with Water-types on the offensive vs you, as well as Ice Punch + Earthquake Mega Metagross. MegaGross already hits each of my mons super effectively with Thunder Punch for Vaporeon, but it doesn't do nearly as much to Vap compared to a Heavy Slam vs Glaceon.