Sorry for being slow on my runs. Here are my logs up to Sabrina with a team of Charmander, Weedle, Drowzee, Chansey, and Shellder.
Okay so when I originally tested Koga, this was when I gave Swords Dance to Beedrill and needed Surf for Tentacool before I decided I wasn't using it. This was before I changed my mind, reset, gave Swords Dance to Zard, and chose to use Cloyster and Chansey. did it at low levels but these logs should still be fine. I have Swords Dance on Bee in my logs here, but I’m going to also be posting the Swords Dance Charizard log though. From this point onward Charizard alone just has Swords Dance. Sorry for Chansey's and Cloyster's higher levels looking out of place, my team was near my Sabrina levels in the next log in the reset run.
And now for my current thoughts.
Charmander - This I honestly don't know what to feel about.
Charmander suffers from a lack of decent boss matchups before Slash (Surge isn't that notable in my opinion). While you can slog past Brock because his moves suck, it's still not fast by any means. Being kinda bad for Erika is also a huge red flag (again, you 3HKO her).
From my hazy memory from about a month ago, it does fine enough on routes. Ember does help with early Bugs. but you almost never use your STAB later unless you are picking something off (even Grass types live Ember). Around Cerulean is where Charmander gets a good bit better mook-wise, with Mega Punch / Dig + Ember 2HKOing.
Even after you get Slash, you're going to be 2HKOing stuff in bosses after which is good, but you still have to wait a long time for that sort of killing power. Once you get Slash and Zard, you're generally OHKOing or 2HKOing things to my memory, which is on par with A tier offense.
My other problem with Charmander is that it needs several TMs to function. While this is true of many Pokemon in RBY, Charmander needs Mega Punch to get by till Dig (this is acceptable, both Squirtle and Clefairy also need Mega Punch to get past their early ruts) then Dig to not whiff constantly witb Mega Punch (while not a lot of top tiers want Dig, I think it's an HGSS Dratini Game Corner situation where it's the mon relying on the move ultimately) and then Swords Dance to do stuff with Dig on a few occasions. While Dig is the biggest contested TM here, the others are by no means entirely free to Zard, and when combined with the eh bosses until Slash these minor issues add up to me.
I can maybe see it as an A tier but...I just don't know really. While it's gotten substantially better post-Slash and feels like an A now, it has a ton of little issues that make me hesitate to say "yes, this can run through the game with minimal support." I'm kind of leaning B. All Pokemon have their ruts but you have to really hog TMs with Charmander and bench it several times in bosses before it finally takes off after a long, 28-level period of mediocrity outside of the field. I'd like to see some more opinions on this. Maybe lategame will change my mind.
Weedle - The grind to Twineedle at level 20 is horrible but it generally performs great after that, being consistently a good pick in bosses. The problem is that when Twineedle is resisted or you're up against Rock / Grounds Beedrill falls flat (though Swords Dance can mitigate this, I'm not using it anymore). I don't think this should be higher than C at best thanks to the grind to Twineedle, but it preys on the multitude of Poisons and Psychics in midgame.
Drowzee - Fantastic. Psychic type. All it needs to do is get to Level 17 and it just destroys, not even needing the Psychic TM before learning it at level 37. You could almost argue S really, but there is no way ever it should be lower than A. Even with Confusion it OHKOs and 2HKOs for a long time.
Chansey - Ran into this by accident, caught on first ball. Kinda hilarious. Needs at least two Special TMs to function (I gave mine Psychic and Thunderbolt), but if you give this massive investment it performs. It could maybe see D but that encounter rate and needing TMs is a big deterrent. I think if you'd want a high Special mon, there's just a lot of better options that are easily available. Great at tanking but slowness is an issue and even some mook physical moves can do a chunk of HP.
Shelldler - Meh. Capturing one at Level 15 via Super Rod sucks. If you grind it up it's good, 2HKOing in bosses and like never fearing mooks ever, but even if Cloyster has good boss matchups I don't see it higher than C or B (if I'm generous) solely because training a Level 15 mon when you are above 30 is just inefficient. You can Super Rod it at Seafoam Islands but I think I just went with it the level 15 version because of the mook base available at Silph Co and the routes around there, as I like doing Koga post-Silph Co. (thanks for reminding me of this info Xator_Nova).
Edit: I looked up the mons that can use Swords Dance via TM in RBY, to determine how contested the TM is. I bolded the Pokemon lines that want the TM.
Beedrill (12): Wow this is bad. Three hit Fury Attack is like…an 8HKO on Geodude. Just try and Poison with Poison Sting, it’s more damage than you’re doing! And then you realize Brock has Full Heals.
Geodude’s Tackle is a 7HKO, but that doesn’t mean much with how little damage you do. I ended up using 17 moves and Geodude still killed me.
Beedrill is a tiny bit better for Onix thanks to outspeeding it (a rarity for most mons this early) but still does pitiful damage.
So yeah, pretty terrible, but at least Bide does almost nothing due to how little damage you do.
Charmander (14): Geodude seems to take six Embers to kill (I crit one of them) while Geodude 7HKOs with Tackle.
Onix takes seven Embers to kill. Onix is awkward between being faster, using Screech to kill you faster with Tackle and then Bide wasting time. It’s a long fight no matter what you do.
Geodude’s Tackle is a 7HKO, but that doesn’t mean much with how little damage you do. I ended up using 17 moves and Geodude still killed me.
Beedrill is a tiny bit better for Onix thanks to outspeeding it (a rarity for most mons this early) but still does pitiful damage.
So yeah, pretty terrible, but at least Bide does almost nothing due to how little damage you do.
Charmander (14): Geodude seems to take six Embers to kill (I crit one of them) while Geodude 7HKOs with Tackle.
Onix takes seven Embers to kill. Onix is awkward between being faster, using Screech to kill you faster with Tackle and then Bide wasting time. It’s a long fight no matter what you do.
Charmeleon (19): Mega Punch 3HKOs Pidgeotto and OHKOs Abra. Ember 2HKOs Rattata easily (knocking it to red) and Mega Punch falls just shy of OHKOing it. Mega Punch is a 3HKO on Squirtle whose Water Gun doesn’t really threaten you. You probably do not sweep due to being worn down from Pidgeotto, 85 Mega Punch accuracy, and accuracy drops from Sand-Attack though.
Beedrill: (20 for Twinneedle): Hitting three times with Fury Attack on three different uses seems to 3HKO Pidgeotto (kinda ew because of Sand-Attack). Generally, don’t fight Pidgeotto; Sand-Attack combined with already iffy accuracy on Fury Attack makes it unviable.
However, Twineedle is an OHKO on Abra and Rattata, while Squirtle takes two uses of Twinneedle unless you crit the first hit (OHKOs).
Beedrill: (20 for Twinneedle): Hitting three times with Fury Attack on three different uses seems to 3HKO Pidgeotto (kinda ew because of Sand-Attack). Generally, don’t fight Pidgeotto; Sand-Attack combined with already iffy accuracy on Fury Attack makes it unviable.
However, Twineedle is an OHKO on Abra and Rattata, while Squirtle takes two uses of Twinneedle unless you crit the first hit (OHKOs).
Misty:
Drowzee (22): Takes on Staryu easily, 2HKOing it with Confusion while Water Gun barely scratches you. While you do little to Starmie with Confusion, it can’t really do much to you with Tackle / wasting X Defend turns, so maybe you can land a Hypnosis and whittle it down. I actually got it confused and won first try!
In a straight fight with just Confusion on Starmie, I did about a third of its HP before dying (she crit a few times though).
In other attempts, I’d say Drowzee is pretty good here. Yes, she has BubbleBeam, but that’s IF she decides to use it. You tank even crit Water Guns and Tackle pretty easily, inviting Hypnosis / Confusion status to screw Misty over fairly easy. Not a CLEAN sweep, but solid.
Beedrill (22): Outspeeds and 2HKOs Staryu with Twineedle while Water Gun does nothing. Even if Misty uses X Defend on Starmie, you still 2HKO with Twinneedle. It seems if Starmie doesn’t hit a critical hit BubbleBeam, you should sweep fine (it seems you barely avoid the BubbleBeam 2HKO from full, does about 30 of your 67 HP).
Charmeleon (23): 2HKOs Staryu with Mega Punch. BubbleBeam literally mops up Charmeleon after Staryu. About what you’d expect.
Drowzee (22): Takes on Staryu easily, 2HKOing it with Confusion while Water Gun barely scratches you. While you do little to Starmie with Confusion, it can’t really do much to you with Tackle / wasting X Defend turns, so maybe you can land a Hypnosis and whittle it down. I actually got it confused and won first try!
In a straight fight with just Confusion on Starmie, I did about a third of its HP before dying (she crit a few times though).
In other attempts, I’d say Drowzee is pretty good here. Yes, she has BubbleBeam, but that’s IF she decides to use it. You tank even crit Water Guns and Tackle pretty easily, inviting Hypnosis / Confusion status to screw Misty over fairly easy. Not a CLEAN sweep, but solid.
Beedrill (22): Outspeeds and 2HKOs Staryu with Twineedle while Water Gun does nothing. Even if Misty uses X Defend on Starmie, you still 2HKO with Twinneedle. It seems if Starmie doesn’t hit a critical hit BubbleBeam, you should sweep fine (it seems you barely avoid the BubbleBeam 2HKO from full, does about 30 of your 67 HP).
Charmeleon (23): 2HKOs Staryu with Mega Punch. BubbleBeam literally mops up Charmeleon after Staryu. About what you’d expect.
Drowzee (25): Would you believe you outspeed and OHKO Pidgeotto with a critical hit Confusion? You 2HKO Pidgeotto without a crit. Confusion knocks Raticate to red and Hyper Fang doesn’t really hurt you being a 4HKO (!)
You’d think Kababra would be bad, but actually Headbutt (more than achievable by having a level 24 Drowzee) knocks it to red and 2HKOs. Even if you get unlucky and have Headbutt disabled, Kadabra derps enough you can still muscle through it with Confusion gradually.
Even Wartortle is 2HKOed by Confusion (though it looks like mine came pretty close to being a range). Easy sweep, did so all three times.
Charmeleon (25): Mega Punch 2HKOs Pidgeotto and Mega Punch / Dig + Ember finishes off Raticate. Dig OHKOs Kadabra and barely misses the 2HKO on Wartortle, who doesn’t really threaten you once more. Even with like 3 Mega Punch misses on the second attempt, I still was able to solo thanks to a lucky crit on Wartortle.
Beedrill (25): Pidgeotto seems 3HKOed by Twineedle, thankfully. Raticate is a range to OHKO with Twineedle. You outspeed and OHKO Kadabra with Twineedle. You 2HKO Wartortle with Twineedle. Swept twice fairly easily, though you will need some luck.
You’d think Kababra would be bad, but actually Headbutt (more than achievable by having a level 24 Drowzee) knocks it to red and 2HKOs. Even if you get unlucky and have Headbutt disabled, Kadabra derps enough you can still muscle through it with Confusion gradually.
Even Wartortle is 2HKOed by Confusion (though it looks like mine came pretty close to being a range). Easy sweep, did so all three times.
Charmeleon (25): Mega Punch 2HKOs Pidgeotto and Mega Punch / Dig + Ember finishes off Raticate. Dig OHKOs Kadabra and barely misses the 2HKO on Wartortle, who doesn’t really threaten you once more. Even with like 3 Mega Punch misses on the second attempt, I still was able to solo thanks to a lucky crit on Wartortle.
Beedrill (25): Pidgeotto seems 3HKOed by Twineedle, thankfully. Raticate is a range to OHKO with Twineedle. You outspeed and OHKO Kadabra with Twineedle. You 2HKO Wartortle with Twineedle. Swept twice fairly easily, though you will need some luck.
Beedrill (26): Outspeeds and 2HKOs Voltorb with Twineedle and outspeeds and OHKOs Pikachu with Twineedle. Seems to 3HKO Raichu with Twineedle even at -1 Attack. If Raichu doesn’t go for Growl, you actually 2HKO with Twineedle! Thunderbolt is a 2HKO but it seems unlikely to use it. Swept all three times, though I did seem to speed tie with Raichu.
Hypno (26): 2HKOs Voltorb with Confusion, OHKOs Pikachu with Confusion. One of the best checks to Raichu; Thunderbolt doesn’t even 4HKO you (!) while you 3HKO with Confusion. Extremely easy sweep!
Charmeleon (26): Outspeed and OHKO Voltorb and Pikachu with Dig. Raichu, believe it or not, is pretty easy - you just avoid the 2HKO from Thunderbolt and knock Raichu to red with Dig.
So same as Bee really. Even when he used Growl and landed a critical hit Thunderbolt, I lived at 6 HP, 2HKOing him with Dig. Easy sweep all three times.
Hypno (26): 2HKOs Voltorb with Confusion, OHKOs Pikachu with Confusion. One of the best checks to Raichu; Thunderbolt doesn’t even 4HKO you (!) while you 3HKO with Confusion. Extremely easy sweep!
Charmeleon (26): Outspeed and OHKO Voltorb and Pikachu with Dig. Raichu, believe it or not, is pretty easy - you just avoid the 2HKO from Thunderbolt and knock Raichu to red with Dig.
So same as Bee really. Even when he used Growl and landed a critical hit Thunderbolt, I lived at 6 HP, 2HKOing him with Dig. Easy sweep all three times.
Hypno (31): Have I mentioned Hypno is amazing yet? Even Confusion 2HKOs Victrebel while even instacrit Razor Leaf (generally a death sentence for most mons neutral to it) doesn’t even 3HKO you.
Tangela is 3HKOed by Confusion, but that’s okay because you tank it easily. Even with Mega Drain healing, you 2HKO Vileplume with Confusion while it does nothing.
With Psychic, Victrebel is a range to OHKO, Tangela is knocked to red, and Vileplume seems to be OHKOed.
Charmeleon (31): Surprisingly terrible against Victrebel: even with a crit Dig and another Dig you can’t 2HKO it. Ember seems to roughly 3HKO it too. Also Wrap is annoying. Ember also 3HKOs Tangela and roughly 3HKOs Vileplume. Mostly likely not a sweep; the first two will wear you down easily letting you get picked off by Vileplume.
If you are somehow level 33 and have Slash, the matchup gets somewhat better. Slash roughly 2HKOs Victrebel, 3HKOs Tangela, and can definitely 3HKO Vileplume now (I swept first time). On a second attempt, I did lose even with Slash, if Victrebel poisons you and Tangela Wraps you, it can leave you again, picked off by Vileplume.
Beedrill (31): OHKOS Victrebel, 2HKOs Tangela, OHKOs Vileplume with Twineedle. Easy sweep. Don’t bother with Pin Missile - Tangela lives all but 5 successive hits of it.
Tangela is 3HKOed by Confusion, but that’s okay because you tank it easily. Even with Mega Drain healing, you 2HKO Vileplume with Confusion while it does nothing.
With Psychic, Victrebel is a range to OHKO, Tangela is knocked to red, and Vileplume seems to be OHKOed.
Charmeleon (31): Surprisingly terrible against Victrebel: even with a crit Dig and another Dig you can’t 2HKO it. Ember seems to roughly 3HKO it too. Also Wrap is annoying. Ember also 3HKOs Tangela and roughly 3HKOs Vileplume. Mostly likely not a sweep; the first two will wear you down easily letting you get picked off by Vileplume.
If you are somehow level 33 and have Slash, the matchup gets somewhat better. Slash roughly 2HKOs Victrebel, 3HKOs Tangela, and can definitely 3HKO Vileplume now (I swept first time). On a second attempt, I did lose even with Slash, if Victrebel poisons you and Tangela Wraps you, it can leave you again, picked off by Vileplume.
Beedrill (31): OHKOS Victrebel, 2HKOs Tangela, OHKOs Vileplume with Twineedle. Easy sweep. Don’t bother with Pin Missile - Tangela lives all but 5 successive hits of it.
Charmeleon (34): Dig + Ember takes care of the Rock/Grounds (even Rock Throw from Onix only does roughly 20 damage). Slash just barely 3HKOs Kangaskhan, but it will do a considerable chunk back. However, even with using Slash on the Rock Grounds instead of Ember (thus giving a free turn to Onix) I was still able to sweep, so it seems pretty reliable. This is without getting into Giovanni’s tendency to G U A R D S P E C.
Hypno (32): Even Confusion is enough to OHKO the Rock / Grounds and even 2HKO Kangaskhan. Bite simply doesn’t do enough damage from Khan to threaten you (it’s like, a 5HKO). Easy sweep.
Beedrill (32): 3HKOs Onix with Twineedle, but there’s a good chance you can beat it (Rock Throw only 2HKOs on crit, hilariously). Rhyhorn does laughable damage with Horn Attack while you 3HKO with Twineedle (poison might help here if you roll it, looks like it would close the gap after two turns).
Kangaskhan finishes you off after the chip from the others though. To muscle through it fast, you’ll likely need some help from Twineedle crits or poison. Should take about 3 it seems. Kangaskhan isn’t threatening enough to kill you if at full, seems to do about 1/3 of your HP on average.
Hypno (32): Even Confusion is enough to OHKO the Rock / Grounds and even 2HKO Kangaskhan. Bite simply doesn’t do enough damage from Khan to threaten you (it’s like, a 5HKO). Easy sweep.
Beedrill (32): 3HKOs Onix with Twineedle, but there’s a good chance you can beat it (Rock Throw only 2HKOs on crit, hilariously). Rhyhorn does laughable damage with Horn Attack while you 3HKO with Twineedle (poison might help here if you roll it, looks like it would close the gap after two turns).
Kangaskhan finishes you off after the chip from the others though. To muscle through it fast, you’ll likely need some help from Twineedle crits or poison. Should take about 3 it seems. Kangaskhan isn’t threatening enough to kill you if at full, seems to do about 1/3 of your HP on average.
Charmeleon (34): Slash leaves Pidgeotto alive in red, but OHKOs Growlithe (yes I know you can Dig). Slash also leaves Exeggcute alive in red, which can be annoying with Hypnosis. Thankfully, even with the terrible RBY sleep mechanics, Barrage does absolutely nothing (about 1 damage per hit) so it’s only a minor nuisance. Slash OHKOs Kadabra and 2HKOs Wartortle, who does literally nothing with Water Gun thanks to level advantage and it being a Wartortle. You outspeed everything, by the way. Easy sweep.
Hypno (32): 2HKOs Pidgeotto with Confusion, barely leaves Growlithe alive with Confusion, Exeggcute is 2HKOed by Tri Attack, and even Kadabra is outsped and OHKOed by Tri Attack. Wartortle is 2HKOed by Confusion. You out-tank everything easily.
Beedrill (32): Even with accuracy hax I ended up sweeping here at 4 HP. It’s annoying though, due to Twineedle resists in both Pidgeotto (Sand-Attack) and Growlithe. You overpower Kadabra and Exeggcute easily. Wartortle seems to be 2HKOed by Twineedle. About what you’d expect.
Hypno (32): 2HKOs Pidgeotto with Confusion, barely leaves Growlithe alive with Confusion, Exeggcute is 2HKOed by Tri Attack, and even Kadabra is outsped and OHKOed by Tri Attack. Wartortle is 2HKOed by Confusion. You out-tank everything easily.
Beedrill (32): Even with accuracy hax I ended up sweeping here at 4 HP. It’s annoying though, due to Twineedle resists in both Pidgeotto (Sand-Attack) and Growlithe. You overpower Kadabra and Exeggcute easily. Wartortle seems to be 2HKOed by Twineedle. About what you’d expect.
Charizard (40): Slash looks like rolls to 2HKO Pidgeot, unfortunately, though it can’t really touch you. Growlithe dies to Dig. Slash 2HKOs Exeggcute. Alakazam is a roll to OHKO. Blastoise is 3HKOed by Slash, but does absolutely nothing to you.
Testing at level 42 now to mitigate if my allegedly bad Attack DV; it seems Pidgeot is just barely 2HKOed now. Growithe is just OHKOed by Slash. Eggs is 2HKOed. Zam is OHKOed. Blastoise is still 3HKOed despite getting some HP back from Leech Seed. Easy sweep again. Testing again to verify this - Growlithe is left alive by Slash so it seems to be a roll. Not testing Swords Dance here as it seems like spamming Slash is just your best option. For reference, +2 Dig seems to do about half to Blastoise but Withdraw can mitigate your damage. Just Slash right through here, Swords Dance is unviable due to Sand Attack from Pidgey.
Beedrill (40): Bizarrely my Beedrill outsped Pidgeot (Wing Attack is a roll to 3HKO you lol) but you aren’t doing anything here. Growlithe is also a no, as it takes too long to beat. Exeggcute is OHKOed by Twinneedle. Zam outspeeds and kills you if weakend, but Beedrill can survive a Psybeam from full, Agility, and OHKO with Twineedle. Blastoise is a slugfest, not recommended but poison can help.
Hypno (40): Psychic 2HKOs Pidgeot whom you seem to outspeed. Outspeed and OHKO Growlithe. Hypno 2HKOs Eggs through resistance with Psychic. Tri Attack 2HKOs Alakazam. Blastoise is 2HKOed by Psychic.
Even getting paralyzed from Eggs Stun Spore wasn’t enough to stop a sweep in one attempt (though I did use Zard for Pidgeot).So yeah. Hypno does Hyno things. Psychic 4HKOs Zam by the way.
Chansey (40): Quick Attack from Pidgeot does about 50 of your roughly 260 HP, while Thunderbolt knocks Pidgeot to red. Growlithe comes out, does nothing with Ember and is 2HKOed by Psychic, but watch out for Take Down - it does roughly 70 damage. Eggs looks like a rough 3HKO with Psychic. Chansey died to Zam because I was unlucky enough to get burned by Growlithe. One on one coming in on Zam, Chansey is awesome, 3HKOing with Thunderbolt and even a crit Psybeam only does like 50 damage. Blastoise is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt. Blastoise outspeeds and 4HKOs Chansey with Bite.
Cloyster (40): Pidgeot and Eggs are OHKOed by Ice Beam as is Growlithe by Surf. Zam is a little shaky, but with Double Edge you can come close to OHKOing it (Psybeam is a 3HKO and Ice Beam is 3HKO). Blastoise is basically a Clamp fest and Bite flinches are annoying - it’s likely gonna finish you off before you kill it.
Testing at level 42 now to mitigate if my allegedly bad Attack DV; it seems Pidgeot is just barely 2HKOed now. Growithe is just OHKOed by Slash. Eggs is 2HKOed. Zam is OHKOed. Blastoise is still 3HKOed despite getting some HP back from Leech Seed. Easy sweep again. Testing again to verify this - Growlithe is left alive by Slash so it seems to be a roll. Not testing Swords Dance here as it seems like spamming Slash is just your best option. For reference, +2 Dig seems to do about half to Blastoise but Withdraw can mitigate your damage. Just Slash right through here, Swords Dance is unviable due to Sand Attack from Pidgey.
Beedrill (40): Bizarrely my Beedrill outsped Pidgeot (Wing Attack is a roll to 3HKO you lol) but you aren’t doing anything here. Growlithe is also a no, as it takes too long to beat. Exeggcute is OHKOed by Twinneedle. Zam outspeeds and kills you if weakend, but Beedrill can survive a Psybeam from full, Agility, and OHKO with Twineedle. Blastoise is a slugfest, not recommended but poison can help.
Hypno (40): Psychic 2HKOs Pidgeot whom you seem to outspeed. Outspeed and OHKO Growlithe. Hypno 2HKOs Eggs through resistance with Psychic. Tri Attack 2HKOs Alakazam. Blastoise is 2HKOed by Psychic.
Even getting paralyzed from Eggs Stun Spore wasn’t enough to stop a sweep in one attempt (though I did use Zard for Pidgeot).So yeah. Hypno does Hyno things. Psychic 4HKOs Zam by the way.
Chansey (40): Quick Attack from Pidgeot does about 50 of your roughly 260 HP, while Thunderbolt knocks Pidgeot to red. Growlithe comes out, does nothing with Ember and is 2HKOed by Psychic, but watch out for Take Down - it does roughly 70 damage. Eggs looks like a rough 3HKO with Psychic. Chansey died to Zam because I was unlucky enough to get burned by Growlithe. One on one coming in on Zam, Chansey is awesome, 3HKOing with Thunderbolt and even a crit Psybeam only does like 50 damage. Blastoise is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt. Blastoise outspeeds and 4HKOs Chansey with Bite.
Cloyster (40): Pidgeot and Eggs are OHKOed by Ice Beam as is Growlithe by Surf. Zam is a little shaky, but with Double Edge you can come close to OHKOing it (Psybeam is a 3HKO and Ice Beam is 3HKO). Blastoise is basically a Clamp fest and Bite flinches are annoying - it’s likely gonna finish you off before you kill it.
Cloyster (41): Easy sweep, but Cloyster leaves everything sans Rhyhorn alive in red with Surf, though they aren’t threatening you ever.
Chansey (41): Nidorino outspeeds you but you destroy with Psychic. Kangaskhan 3HKOs you with Bite (and can flinch) but you 2HKO with Psychic. Rhyhorn is left in red by Psychic. Nidoqueen outspeeds but does nothing and.you 2HKO with Psychic. Might wanna avoid Khan but the others are easy pickings (especially with GUARD SPEC LOL). Still pretty easy sweep overall, though 2HKOing almost everything is a little slow.
Charizard (42): Swords Dance Dig, everything dies in one hit save Kangaskhan. who is left in red. Even without Swords Dance, Kangaskhan is 2HKOed by Slash, and Rhyhorn and Nidoqueen are 2HKOed by Dig.
Beedrill (40): OHKO Nidorino with Twineedle, poison via Twineedle helps assure the Khan 3HKO (Bite is a 4HKO), Rhyhorn is annoying and takes 3 Twineedles + poison to beat, Nidoqueen is 2HKOed. You sweep but Swords Dance would help here (I gave mine to Zard).
Hypno (40): Hypno used Psychic! Everything is outsped and OHKOed.
Chansey (41): Nidorino outspeeds you but you destroy with Psychic. Kangaskhan 3HKOs you with Bite (and can flinch) but you 2HKO with Psychic. Rhyhorn is left in red by Psychic. Nidoqueen outspeeds but does nothing and.you 2HKO with Psychic. Might wanna avoid Khan but the others are easy pickings (especially with GUARD SPEC LOL). Still pretty easy sweep overall, though 2HKOing almost everything is a little slow.
Charizard (42): Swords Dance Dig, everything dies in one hit save Kangaskhan. who is left in red. Even without Swords Dance, Kangaskhan is 2HKOed by Slash, and Rhyhorn and Nidoqueen are 2HKOed by Dig.
Beedrill (40): OHKO Nidorino with Twineedle, poison via Twineedle helps assure the Khan 3HKO (Bite is a 4HKO), Rhyhorn is annoying and takes 3 Twineedles + poison to beat, Nidoqueen is 2HKOed. You sweep but Swords Dance would help here (I gave mine to Zard).
Hypno (40): Hypno used Psychic! Everything is outsped and OHKOed.
Okay so when I originally tested Koga, this was when I gave Swords Dance to Beedrill and needed Surf for Tentacool before I decided I wasn't using it. This was before I changed my mind, reset, gave Swords Dance to Zard, and chose to use Cloyster and Chansey. did it at low levels but these logs should still be fine. I have Swords Dance on Bee in my logs here, but I’m going to also be posting the Swords Dance Charizard log though. From this point onward Charizard alone just has Swords Dance. Sorry for Chansey's and Cloyster's higher levels looking out of place, my team was near my Sabrina levels in the next log in the reset run.
Charizard (38): Dig leaves Koffing in red, annoyingly while it uses Sludge on you for roughly 20 damage. Dig (which does 2/3) + Slash finishes off Muk. Wezzing is probably best left to something else, it isn’t 2HKOed by Dig and Self-destruct finishes you off.
Slash seems to be damage rolls to 2HKO Koffing (though it might be my comparatively lower level), but definitely 3HKOs Muk so just go Slash + Dig, as stated above (though it seems Slash is a roll to kill, using Dig twice can be ew with Minimize).
You can sweep with some luck (read: if you crit Weezing or it doesn’t go boom), but you’re gonna get worn down. Good, but not excellent, though I was able to almost sweep even with two Smokescreen uses and a Minimize (Weezing went boom).
Charizard (42): Swords Dance Dig OHKOs everyone, even with a crit Smog poison from Koffing I did this. Weezing went boom underground. Unboosted showed practically identical results to above aside from the fact Weezing looked more possible to be 2HKOed by Dig.
Hypno (38): Hypno uses Psychic! Everything is OHKOed. Brainless sweep.
Beedrill (38): Twineedle fails to OHKO Koffing, leaving it in red, while Muk barely avoids the 2HKO. Swords Dance time. I keep critting Weezing so it’s hard to judge but it seems like it’s a loss as if Weezing goes boom you die instantly.
Smokescreen sucks, but if you setup a Swords Dance, Beedrill OHKOs everything with Twineedle at +2 save Weezing whom you do 2/3s to (though Muk is a damage roll to OHKO). Weezing went boom and I died from full again. So you boost up, dent Weezing and die. Pretty good.
Chansey (43): Psychic OHKOs Koffing and 2HKOs Muk (leaving it in red). Amusingly, not even a crit Sludge from Muk OHKOs Chansey, leaving it with 55 HP. Weezing is 2HKOed by Psychic but if it goes boom you die. Being outsped by Weezing is annoying. Good overall.
Cloyster (43): OHKOs Koffing with Surf and just barely 2HKOs Muk and Weezing with Surf. Not even Selfdestruct from Weezing threatens you. Easy sweep.
Slash seems to be damage rolls to 2HKO Koffing (though it might be my comparatively lower level), but definitely 3HKOs Muk so just go Slash + Dig, as stated above (though it seems Slash is a roll to kill, using Dig twice can be ew with Minimize).
You can sweep with some luck (read: if you crit Weezing or it doesn’t go boom), but you’re gonna get worn down. Good, but not excellent, though I was able to almost sweep even with two Smokescreen uses and a Minimize (Weezing went boom).
Charizard (42): Swords Dance Dig OHKOs everyone, even with a crit Smog poison from Koffing I did this. Weezing went boom underground. Unboosted showed practically identical results to above aside from the fact Weezing looked more possible to be 2HKOed by Dig.
Hypno (38): Hypno uses Psychic! Everything is OHKOed. Brainless sweep.
Beedrill (38): Twineedle fails to OHKO Koffing, leaving it in red, while Muk barely avoids the 2HKO. Swords Dance time. I keep critting Weezing so it’s hard to judge but it seems like it’s a loss as if Weezing goes boom you die instantly.
Smokescreen sucks, but if you setup a Swords Dance, Beedrill OHKOs everything with Twineedle at +2 save Weezing whom you do 2/3s to (though Muk is a damage roll to OHKO). Weezing went boom and I died from full again. So you boost up, dent Weezing and die. Pretty good.
Chansey (43): Psychic OHKOs Koffing and 2HKOs Muk (leaving it in red). Amusingly, not even a crit Sludge from Muk OHKOs Chansey, leaving it with 55 HP. Weezing is 2HKOed by Psychic but if it goes boom you die. Being outsped by Weezing is annoying. Good overall.
Cloyster (43): OHKOs Koffing with Surf and just barely 2HKOs Muk and Weezing with Surf. Not even Selfdestruct from Weezing threatens you. Easy sweep.
Cloyster (43): Kadabra 4HKOs with Psybeam while you 2HKO with Surf. You 2HKO Mime with Surf, even 2HKOing if it sets up Light Screen on your first attack (you outspeed). Venomoth is 2HKOed by Surf.
Chansey (43): Gave Chansey Soft-boiled over Minimize here. Kadabra does like 20 damage with Psybeam while you 3HKO it with Thunderbolt (also I paralyzed Kadabra). Mr. Mime outspeeds but you 2HKO with Thunderbolt. Venomoth is left in red from Psychic and paralyzes me. Amusingly, I paralyzed Zam with Thunderbolt too. Alakazam does nothing to you and is 4HKOed by Thunderbolt, but RECOVER exists.
Even with a Special drop from Kadabra’s Psychic, I was still able to get to Alakazam before being PP stalled out. You can Sing it if you want to but you’re still 4HKOing.
Charizard (42): Slash OHKOs Kadabra but 2HKOs everything else, unfortunately. However, Charizard CAN setup on Kadabra fine, even a critical hit Psychic only does 2/3s of your HP. +2 Dig OHKOs Venomoth and Alakazam, though it seems like it’s a tossup whether you outspeed Zam or not, and potential Reflect stuff. At +2, Barrier from Mr. Mime turns Dig back into a 2HKO.
It’s worth noting that when I was unboosted, not even a crit Dig OHKOs Venomoth (and yes, I know crits ignore stat buffs). Alakazam looks like a 3HKO with Psybeam. Easy sweep but it’s mostly due to the Ai’s inability to threaten you outside Kadabra. Charizard’s high Special keeps it safe here.
Beedrill (42): You need Kadabra to leave you alive with Psybeam so you can Agility for Zam (you outspeed all the others without Agility, by the way). OHKO on Kadabra, Mr. Mime and Venomoth with Twineedle (though Venomoth seems to be damage rolls). Without Agility, Zam Psybeam murders you from full. You should sweep with just a little luck.
Hypno (42): Outspeed and knock Kadabra to red with Tri Attack. It then disabled Tri Attack (upon which I finished it off with Psychic). Mime seems to be 3HKOed by Psychic and it does nothing (if you get the Special drop it looks like a roll to 2HKO). A later test revealed Tri Attack looks like rolls to 2HKO. You outspeed and murder Venomoth, upon which I wasn’t disabled anymore.
Alakazam is 3HKOed by Tri Attack and Psychic won’t do much unless you get some Special drops (and A LOT of them, even with at least 2 I couldn’t knock it to half IIRC) and Alakazam is annoying with Recover, to the point I actually ran out of PP stalling it out.
A later test revealed this Alakazam matchup is where Hypnosis shows its worth, halting Alakazam long enough for you to hopefully pick it off. Meditate at level 43 could maybe help since they can’t really touch you at all but I don’t consider it worth the move slot over Reflect ultimately.
Chansey (43): Gave Chansey Soft-boiled over Minimize here. Kadabra does like 20 damage with Psybeam while you 3HKO it with Thunderbolt (also I paralyzed Kadabra). Mr. Mime outspeeds but you 2HKO with Thunderbolt. Venomoth is left in red from Psychic and paralyzes me. Amusingly, I paralyzed Zam with Thunderbolt too. Alakazam does nothing to you and is 4HKOed by Thunderbolt, but RECOVER exists.
Even with a Special drop from Kadabra’s Psychic, I was still able to get to Alakazam before being PP stalled out. You can Sing it if you want to but you’re still 4HKOing.
Charizard (42): Slash OHKOs Kadabra but 2HKOs everything else, unfortunately. However, Charizard CAN setup on Kadabra fine, even a critical hit Psychic only does 2/3s of your HP. +2 Dig OHKOs Venomoth and Alakazam, though it seems like it’s a tossup whether you outspeed Zam or not, and potential Reflect stuff. At +2, Barrier from Mr. Mime turns Dig back into a 2HKO.
It’s worth noting that when I was unboosted, not even a crit Dig OHKOs Venomoth (and yes, I know crits ignore stat buffs). Alakazam looks like a 3HKO with Psybeam. Easy sweep but it’s mostly due to the Ai’s inability to threaten you outside Kadabra. Charizard’s high Special keeps it safe here.
Beedrill (42): You need Kadabra to leave you alive with Psybeam so you can Agility for Zam (you outspeed all the others without Agility, by the way). OHKO on Kadabra, Mr. Mime and Venomoth with Twineedle (though Venomoth seems to be damage rolls). Without Agility, Zam Psybeam murders you from full. You should sweep with just a little luck.
Hypno (42): Outspeed and knock Kadabra to red with Tri Attack. It then disabled Tri Attack (upon which I finished it off with Psychic). Mime seems to be 3HKOed by Psychic and it does nothing (if you get the Special drop it looks like a roll to 2HKO). A later test revealed Tri Attack looks like rolls to 2HKO. You outspeed and murder Venomoth, upon which I wasn’t disabled anymore.
Alakazam is 3HKOed by Tri Attack and Psychic won’t do much unless you get some Special drops (and A LOT of them, even with at least 2 I couldn’t knock it to half IIRC) and Alakazam is annoying with Recover, to the point I actually ran out of PP stalling it out.
A later test revealed this Alakazam matchup is where Hypnosis shows its worth, halting Alakazam long enough for you to hopefully pick it off. Meditate at level 43 could maybe help since they can’t really touch you at all but I don’t consider it worth the move slot over Reflect ultimately.
And now for my current thoughts.
Charmander - This I honestly don't know what to feel about.
Charmander suffers from a lack of decent boss matchups before Slash (Surge isn't that notable in my opinion). While you can slog past Brock because his moves suck, it's still not fast by any means. Being kinda bad for Erika is also a huge red flag (again, you 3HKO her).
From my hazy memory from about a month ago, it does fine enough on routes. Ember does help with early Bugs. but you almost never use your STAB later unless you are picking something off (even Grass types live Ember). Around Cerulean is where Charmander gets a good bit better mook-wise, with Mega Punch / Dig + Ember 2HKOing.
Even after you get Slash, you're going to be 2HKOing stuff in bosses after which is good, but you still have to wait a long time for that sort of killing power. Once you get Slash and Zard, you're generally OHKOing or 2HKOing things to my memory, which is on par with A tier offense.
My other problem with Charmander is that it needs several TMs to function. While this is true of many Pokemon in RBY, Charmander needs Mega Punch to get by till Dig (this is acceptable, both Squirtle and Clefairy also need Mega Punch to get past their early ruts) then Dig to not whiff constantly witb Mega Punch (while not a lot of top tiers want Dig, I think it's an HGSS Dratini Game Corner situation where it's the mon relying on the move ultimately) and then Swords Dance to do stuff with Dig on a few occasions. While Dig is the biggest contested TM here, the others are by no means entirely free to Zard, and when combined with the eh bosses until Slash these minor issues add up to me.
I can maybe see it as an A tier but...I just don't know really. While it's gotten substantially better post-Slash and feels like an A now, it has a ton of little issues that make me hesitate to say "yes, this can run through the game with minimal support." I'm kind of leaning B. All Pokemon have their ruts but you have to really hog TMs with Charmander and bench it several times in bosses before it finally takes off after a long, 28-level period of mediocrity outside of the field. I'd like to see some more opinions on this. Maybe lategame will change my mind.
Weedle - The grind to Twineedle at level 20 is horrible but it generally performs great after that, being consistently a good pick in bosses. The problem is that when Twineedle is resisted or you're up against Rock / Grounds Beedrill falls flat (though Swords Dance can mitigate this, I'm not using it anymore). I don't think this should be higher than C at best thanks to the grind to Twineedle, but it preys on the multitude of Poisons and Psychics in midgame.
Drowzee - Fantastic. Psychic type. All it needs to do is get to Level 17 and it just destroys, not even needing the Psychic TM before learning it at level 37. You could almost argue S really, but there is no way ever it should be lower than A. Even with Confusion it OHKOs and 2HKOs for a long time.
Chansey - Ran into this by accident, caught on first ball. Kinda hilarious. Needs at least two Special TMs to function (I gave mine Psychic and Thunderbolt), but if you give this massive investment it performs. It could maybe see D but that encounter rate and needing TMs is a big deterrent. I think if you'd want a high Special mon, there's just a lot of better options that are easily available. Great at tanking but slowness is an issue and even some mook physical moves can do a chunk of HP.
Shelldler - Meh. Capturing one at Level 15 via Super Rod sucks. If you grind it up it's good, 2HKOing in bosses and like never fearing mooks ever, but even if Cloyster has good boss matchups I don't see it higher than C or B (if I'm generous) solely because training a Level 15 mon when you are above 30 is just inefficient. You can Super Rod it at Seafoam Islands but I think I just went with it the level 15 version because of the mook base available at Silph Co and the routes around there, as I like doing Koga post-Silph Co. (thanks for reminding me of this info Xator_Nova).
Edit: I looked up the mons that can use Swords Dance via TM in RBY, to determine how contested the TM is. I bolded the Pokemon lines that want the TM.
- Bulbasaur line (meh, okay for it)
- Charmander line (wants it)
- Bellsprout line (kinda wants it for Wrap cheese)
- Beedrill (wants it)
- Krabby line (probably sees use out of it)
- Sandshrew line (doesn't need it really)
- Oddish line (though it's not using it)
- Paras (lol, this thing sucks)
- Tentacool (not using it)
- Fsrfetch'd (gets it naturally at 23, so no need)
- Lickitung (lol)
- Tangela (lol even more)
- Scyther (gets it naturally at 35, but when you're spamming Slash and entirely Normal moves...)
- Kabutops (uses Slash a lot, you'd only use Submission and Hyper Beam off Swords Dance).
- Pinsir (see Kabutops above)
- Mew (ineligible for tiering).
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