Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Water types would get 85 x 2 x 1.5
Non-Water types would get 85 x 2
OKAY: Just to calm the hype a little bit... Further testing will be required for Dewpiders ability; Water Bubble.

I believe there has been a bit of confusion about how much damage the ability actually does. The original video implies that it does similar damage to SE Crunch (160 power).

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...chanics-research.3586701/page-14#post-7079813

The above post has a video with spoilers (So watch at own risk) that shows Liquidation only dealing minorly more damage than SE Crunch. Therefore we believe Water Bubble is the equivalent of Adaptability (Making STAB 2x rather than 1.5x). This makes it 170 power compared to Crunch's 160. If it was doubles water power + STAB than it should have been a clean KO... By an absolute mile. (85*2*1.5 = 255).
Any clarifications?
 
Water Bubble not only doubles the power of Water moves, it also halves the power of incoming Fire moves AND gives immunity to burn!

(Edit: It doubles the power of Water moves regardless of STAB. Tested with a hacked Dewpider with Reflect Type against a Magnemite. Unstabbed Aqua Jet did twice the damage of unstabbed Shadow Sneak.)

Much like Sleep Talk, Z-Copycat also boosts accuracy and then uses Z-version of the previously used move, but only if the previous move was damage dealing.

What about Iron Fist? Is it still strictly and vastly inferior to Tough Claws?
Iron Fist doesn't seem to have been buffed, though my calcs are pretty inaccurate 'cause I'm using very low level Pokemon and don't have access to double battles yet. (I want to play as little of the story as possible before the games are released. I haven't even progressed past trainer school yet.)
 

DHR-107

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Water Bubble doubles the power of physical and special Water-type moves regardless of the Pokemon's type, including the Z-Move Hydro Vortex, and has no affect on status Water-type moves.

According to this thread on 4chan, it looks like Water Bubble might also boost water type moves: http://boards.4chan.org/vp/thread/29883617. Can anyone confirm?
What in the literal fuck

Pardon my french but what in the LITERAL fuck?
Not only does Water Bubble boost the power of Water-type moves, it fucking DOUBLES their power. DOUBLES. Why is this not in the ability description??????????????
Here's a video recording of a SE crunch (80 * 2) doing as much as a STAB Liquidation (80 * 1.5)

https://sendvid.com/ij9u2pa1

Edit: Video has SPOILERS

Maybe since water bubble blocked will-o-wisp it did more?
I can't do vids but I've been here all thread, you can trust me on these.

I also went and double checked to make sure if it's doubling the base power or if it's a STAB multiplier. It's simply doubling the base power of water-type moves, and doesn't rely on STAB.
so it's just doing 85 x 2 and not adding STAB to that for liquidation?
Water types would get 85 x 2 x 1.5
Non-Water types would get 85 x 2
OK: I would really like some clarification on this. The original video, Liquidation only does similar damage to SE Crunch which is 170 vs 160 power which is fine. And follows the "Doubles Water Move Power". However, I am pretty damned sure even with a max vs min roll, if STAB was included in the calc, then it would have obliterated the opposing mon in this vid. Like, it would have been a clean KO. Everyone is now hyping this as some crazy powerful attacker, when I am not so sure this is the case.

If it was doubles water power + STAB than it should have been a clean KO... By an absolute mile. (85*2*1.5 = 255). Rather than 160 or 170 power. 80 power difference is HUGE.

Nexus' wording in the OP makes it sound like if its used on a mon not called Dewpider/Araquanid it doubles Water moves power. Which is great. So what I am asking is: Is this Adaptability for Dewpider/Araquanid, or does Dewpider/Araquanid NOT receive STAB on its water moves? This is a pretty big difference in my opinion.
 
Water Bubble doubles the power of physical and special Water-type moves regardless of the Pokemon's type, including the Z-Move Hydro Vortex, and has no affect on status Water-type moves.








OK: I would really like some clarification on this. The original video, Liquidation only does similar damage to SE Crunch which is 170 vs 160 power which is fine. And follows the "Doubles Water Move Power". However, I am pretty damned sure even with a max vs min roll, if STAB was included in the calc, then it would have obliterated the opposing mon in this vid. Like, it would have been a clean KO. Everyone is now hyping this as some crazy powerful attacker, when I am not so sure this is the case.

Nexus' wording in the OP makes it sound like if its used on a mon not called Dewpider it doubles Water moves power. Which is great. So what I am asking is: Is this Adaptability for Dewpider, or does Dewpider NOT receive STAB on its water moves? This is a pretty big difference in my opinion.
This is quite intriguing. I didn't test it enough with a regular Water/Bug typed Dewpider. Testing again.
 
Water Bubble not only doubles the power of Water moves, it also halves the power of incoming Fire moves AND gives immunity to burn!

(Edit: It doubles the power of Water moves regardless of STAB. Tested with a hacked Dewpider with Reflect Type against a Magnemite. Unstabbed Aqua Jet did twice the damage of unstabbed Shadow Sneak.)

Much like Sleep Talk, Z-Copycat also boosts accuracy and then uses Z-version of the previously used move, but only if the previous move was damage dealing.


Iron Fist doesn't seem to have been buffed, though my calcs are pretty inaccurate 'cause I'm using very low level Pokemon and don't have access to double battles yet. (I want to play as little of the story as possible before the games are released. I haven't even progressed past trainer school yet.)
So if Araquanid, he takes 0.5* damage from fire, because of his split water/ bug typing? So it would even out to the damage of a "not very effective" hit?
 
I'm not sure if if I'm answering the exact questions your asking here, but from my Emergency Exit testing:
Just BEING at below half health doesn't trigger it. Your opponent needs to attack and deal damage to kick you out.

If something like Water Shuriken brings you below half on the first hit, Water Shuriken has to finish all of its hits before you get kicked out. If your in doubles, you'll get kicked out as soon as the move that drops you below half finishes dealing damage, you won't stick around until the end of the turn to switch.
I think what LastFootnote meant when he asked this:

2. Can it activate more than once per stint on the field? Meaning does it activate if you go from less than half HP to even less HP?
3. Can it activate more than once per match? As in, if you switch out and then back in, can it activate again?
Was if the abilities activate if you are in/enter battle at like 40%HP and get dropped to 20%HP or something like that. I'm not sure about Berserk, but Emergency Exit doesn't activate in that situation according to this post:

My first-hand sources that I won't delve into confirm that:

- Emergency Exit is exactly like Wimp Out in every way and, unfortunately, activates immediately after taking the hit, not at the end of the turn. Meaning Golisopod might accomplish diddly-squat that turn.
- Emergency Exit activates only after the last hit of the multi-strike attack lands, not during the attack.
- if Golisopod enters the battle with less than 50% HP already, Emergency Exit doesn't activate any more - unless it heals and drops below 50% again.
- Sitrus Berry activates before the Ability, so it prevents Golisopod from getting switched if it heals enough.
- evolves from Wimpod at lv. 30 and getting it to that level is a major pain, though with badass payoff.
By extension, that point also confirms that you can activate it more than once per match if you heal yourself (like with Leech Life or Leftovers for example) before dropping below 50% once more. But again, this is just for Emergency Exit, not sure about Berserk.
 
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It's always your type 1. Always. On top of that:


For Oricorio, Revelation Dance becomes typeless!

Edit: Wow this is a double interesting one. Multitype overrides Burn Up, and you remain Fire Type (as does Judgement).
Well that brings up an interesting question. Does a "typeless" type move get stab from a "typeless" type mon? The fact that a Baile Oricorio doesn't just become pure Flying means that "typeless" takes up of of its types. Probbably not, but it would be interesting to see if it does.
 

UltiMario

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Double checking my numbers from my initial test, I can tell you the aqua bubble boost is still at minimum above an 87.5% boost. STAB and no STAB both agree on this.

If it's not double for some bizarre reason it's REALLY damn close. The video likely shows a min vs max roll, which is why it seems much more similar.

Edit: Oh, a request to test it on Dewpider because it might work differently. Misread that. Let's look into it...
 
100% sure now that Water Bubble adds a 2x multiplier on Water moves on top of STAB. Tested against a Wingull with a hacked Dewpider that knew Water Pulse/Silver Wind/Role Play/Heal Pulse. Water Pulse did double the damage of Silver Wind as long as it had Water Bubble. After it changed its ability to Hydration with Role Play, WPulse did the same damage as SWind. The test was repeated 5-6 times by healing the Wingull with heal pulse.

So if Araquanid, he takes 0.5* damage from fire, because of his split water/ bug typing? So it would even out to the damage of a "not very effective" hit?
Yes.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
100% sure now that Water Bubble adds a 2x multiplier on Water moves on top of STAB. Tested against a Wingull with a hacked Dewpider that knew Water Pulse/Silver Wind/Role Play/Heal Pulse. Water Pulse did double the damage of Silver Wind as long as it had Water Bubble. After it changed its ability to Hydration with Role Play, WPulse did the same damage as SWind.


Yes.
Confirming these findings. The video in question just has retarded min/max rolls. Water Bubble functions the same on every Pokemon its on.
 
How do the (physical) Z-attacks interact with Hustle? Do they get the boost in damage and disregard the accuracy penalty?
 
Can Schooling be Skill Swapped/changed to another ability using Entrainment? If so, does this allow Wishiwashi to keep its School form active?
 
Seems Ironfirst doesnt affect Crab Hammer or Ice Hammer, although Ice Hammer is still stronger than a Iron First Ice Punch anyway barely by the looks of damage.
Would you mind posting your data regarding this? Ice Hammer not being boosted by Iron Fist is frankly unbelievable.
 

DHR-107

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Wood Hammer was never boosted by it, neither was Hammer Arm.
Hammer Arm was boosted by Iron Fist... And Considering Ice Hammer is a clone of it, it would be surprising if that didn't come across. Unless it's more based on Crabhammer... Which would suck.
 
Much like Copycat, Z-Mirror Move boosts attack by 2 stages, and then copies the target's last move and executes it, and if that move was a damaging move, it is converted to its type's Z-move.

Me First works in a similar fashion, but boosts Speed instead.

The type of the Z-crystal must match that of the calling move, but not necessarily that of the called move. For example, if a Blaziken uses Z-Mirror Move on a Linoone that just used Extremespeed, it'd first get +2 atk and then use a physical Breakneck Blitz based on ESpeed, even though it held Flynium-Z and not Normalium-Z.

Hammer Arm is boosted by it.
My bad. Should've checked the flags
 
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