Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

They do work, and it's really creepy:


Look at legless Jirachi during some Z-Moves, or the abomination that comes out with Pulverizing Pancake.
Actually, I remember hearing from ih8ih8sn0w that the animations only play when you use the Z-Crystal of the associated type with an exclusive z-move, and that using them as you would any normal move results in no animation, and only a blank text box. I don't know if that's been mentioned in the thread yet, but it's not in the OP, at least.
 
What are the (failure) messages when you use Toxic Thread against:
  • Solgaleo (or equivalent)
  • A Poison type Pokémon
  • A Pokémon with the Ability Comatose
  • A Pokémon with either of the Abilities White Smoke or Clear Body
  • A Pokémon with the Ability Immunity
 
Actually, I remember hearing from ih8ih8sn0w that the animations only play when you use the Z-Crystal of the associated type with an exclusive z-move, and that using them as you would any normal move results in no animation, and only a blank text box. I don't know if that's been mentioned in the thread yet, but it's not in the OP, at least.
If that's true, is there any indication at all of what move was actually used other than the damage? This is relevant for Balanced Hackmons, as a perfect simulator would replicate the lack of text info and animation which effectively makes the moves anonymous. Annoying, but if that's the accurate behavior, then it should be reflected in the sim.
 
If that's true, is there any indication at all of what move was actually used other than the damage? This is relevant for Balanced Hackmons, as a perfect simulator would replicate the lack of text info and animation which effectively makes the moves anonymous. Annoying, but if that's the accurate behavior, then it should be reflected in the sim.
Instead of the "[Pokemon] used [move ]" it shows a blank text box. Then its effectiveness. A Leppa berry properly shows the moves name though.
 
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What are the (failure) messages when you use Toxic Thread against:
  • Solgaleo (or equivalent)
  • A Poison type Pokémon
  • A Pokémon with the Ability Comatose
  • A Pokémon with either of the Abilities White Smoke or Clear Body
  • A Pokémon with the Ability Immunity
Toxic thread on an Alolan Muk:

Muk's speed fell!
Muk cannot be poisoned!
 
I ctrl+F'ed Knock (for Knock Off) and didn't see it in the OP, so I'm asking: can anyone verify if Knock Off will always get full damage on Megas, mons holding their respective Mega Stones and Z-Crystal holders? Or did Knock Off's BP mechanic stay the same this gen? (if it was already answered, then I apologise and will delete the post).
 
Instruct, how does it work?
(note: some of this stuff was mentioned before, but not in the OP, so credits to those people)

Scenario 1: Disabled move being instructed
Arceus uses Extreme Speed> other arceus disables Extreme Speed> Oranguru uses Instruct > Arceus uses Extreme Speed

Scenario 2: Taunted recover
Arceus uses Recover > other Arceus uses taunt > Oranguru uses Instruct > Arceus cannot use Recover due to taunt (or whatever the normal message is)

Scenario 3: 1PP when instructed
Arceus uses Extreme Speed > Oranguru uses Instruct > move fails

Scenario 4: Z-move in a normal slot
It fails

Scenario 5: Fainting a target with the first move
Arceus faints other Arceus > Oranguru uses Instruct > move hits other Pokemon on the field.

Hiding because there may be a good amount of information here...
For testing, I am using a latios with curse (for speed tiers) and 4 arceus's called thing 1, thing 2, thing 1a, and thing 2a. These will be switched out each turn to remove curse, and Latios will recover health and switch to reset curse.
initial tests (before I decided to use an elaborate setup): curse targeted the adjacent then the diagonal facing poke, next battle it did the opposite.

1. curse hits Thing 2 , Instruct fails
2. Curse hits Thing 2, Instruct fails
3. Curse hits Thing 2a, Instruct hits Thing 1
4. Curse hits Thing 1a, Instruct hits Thing 2
5. Curse hits Thing 2a, Instruct fails
6. Curse hits Thing 2, Instruct hits Thing 1
7. Curse hits Thing 2a, Instruct hits Thing 1a
... going to cut this out until I get the one missing result
13? Curse hits Thing 1, Instruct fails


Solar beam + instruct: Fails on turn 1 and turn 2.
Hyper beam + instruct: fails
Charge + electric move + instruct: double damage on original hit only.
special thanks to blarajan as well for bringing some of the Instruct flaws to attention!
 
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So I'm probably not going to be an active member very much, but I saw something in the OP that I figured I could test

First off: Got into a Wild Battle, and Minior-Core at full HP changed into Minior-Meteor immediately as soon as it was sent out, before I could even select any actions. It was in the lead position. The Wild Pokemon was another Minior. I feel like this is worth noting as somebody earlier said that you would get one full turn with Minior-Core before it put its shields up? In the case that it was in Core form before the start of the battle, that is.

Second: Got into another Wild Battle with a Minior (had left Ditto in the box and had Flame Orb on Minior for the first test). Switched Decidueye out for Ditto@Flame Orb. Transformed into the enemy Minior, and Burn was not cured. Used a Full Restore, and the wild Minior used Self-Destruct, ending THAT test.

Next fight with Minior, though, I was able to do the same without Self-Destruct happening. End result: Ditto Transformed into Minior-Meteor holding Flame Orb still gets burned at the end of the turn.

Are there any repeatable Double Battles in-game, or do I have to find a battle partner to test using Thunder Wave on Ditto-turned-Meteor. For reference, this was a Limber Ditto, though I doubt it matters.
 
So I'm probably not going to be an active member very much, but I saw something in the OP that I figured I could test

First off: Got into a Wild Battle, and Minior-Core at full HP changed into Minior-Meteor immediately as soon as it was sent out, before I could even select any actions. It was in the lead position. The Wild Pokemon was another Minior. I feel like this is worth noting as somebody earlier said that you would get one full turn with Minior-Core before it put its shields up? In the case that it was in Core form before the start of the battle, that is.

Second: Got into another Wild Battle with a Minior (had left Ditto in the box and had Flame Orb on Minior for the first test). Switched Decidueye out for Ditto@Flame Orb. Transformed into the enemy Minior, and Burn was not cured. Used a Full Restore, and the wild Minior used Self-Destruct, ending THAT test.

Next fight with Minior, though, I was able to do the same without Self-Destruct happening. End result: Ditto Transformed into Minior-Meteor holding Flame Orb still gets burned at the end of the turn.

Are there any repeatable Double Battles in-game, or do I have to find a battle partner to test using Thunder Wave on Ditto-turned-Meteor. For reference, this was a Limber Ditto, though I doubt it matters.
You should probably test whether a Minior can actually be burned by a Flame Orb, just to be sure Ditto is actually acting differently. You can test whether a transformed Ditto is immune to Thunder Wave and the like either by sending out a Minior against a wild Ditto. Also, for the record, Shields Down and other forme-changing abilities that change the base forme above a certain point (that is, Schooling) instead of below (like Zen Mode and Power Construct) activate on switch-in, so a Minior-Core sent in above 50% will immediately switch to Minior-Meteor, as opposed to a Darmanitan sent in at 50% or less, which has to wait until a turn ends to change to its zen forme.
 
You should probably test whether a Minior can actually be burned by a Flame Orb, just to be sure Ditto is actually acting differently. You can test whether a transformed Ditto is immune to Thunder Wave and the like either by sending out a Minior against a wild Ditto. Also, for the record, Shields Down and other forme-changing abilities that change the base forme above a certain point (that is, Schooling) instead of below (like Zen Mode and Power Construct) activate on switch-in, so a Minior-Core sent in above 50% will immediately switch to Minior-Meteor, as opposed to a Darmanitan sent in at 50% or less, which has to wait until a turn ends to change to its zen forme.
Not sure why I didn't think to use a control of any kind. Just to be sure, I used T-Wave on a wild Minior, and Shields Down protected it, not that that's any new information.

On to the actual data: Ditto appeared, Raichu-A lead.
Switch to Minior@Flame Orb. Shields Down brings up the Meteor Form. Ditto Transforms. Flame Orb does NOT trigger, so Ditto is acting differently from Minior here.
Switched back to Raichu-A, used T-Wave. Ditto is paralyzed.

Conclusion: Shields Down does not protect Ditto from Status. I could test Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, and Yawn, as well, but that may be excess?
 
Regarding encore and Z-moves, this just happened to me in the Battle Tree

I sent out Salamence against Accelgor and used Supersonic Skystrike. Accelgor hung on with its focus sash. The next turn, Accelgor used encore and it failed. So it looks like encore doesn't work against Z-moves
 
Not sure why I didn't think to use a control of any kind. Just to be sure, I used T-Wave on a wild Minior, and Shields Down protected it, not that that's any new information.

On to the actual data: Ditto appeared, Raichu-A lead.
Switch to Minior@Flame Orb. Shields Down brings up the Meteor Form. Ditto Transforms. Flame Orb does NOT trigger, so Ditto is acting differently from Minior here.
Switched back to Raichu-A, used T-Wave. Ditto is paralyzed.

Conclusion: Shields Down does not protect Ditto from Status. I could test Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, and Yawn, as well, but that may be excess?
Does Shields Down even work on Ditto? Please test it with Ditto entering the battle with less than half HP or entering the battle with more than half HP but then receiving damage accordingly
 
Does Shields Down even work on Ditto? Please test it with Ditto entering the battle with less than half HP or entering the battle with more than half HP but then receiving damage accordingly
I can already confirm that a Ditto with less than half HP transforms into Minior-Meteor when the opposing Minior is in Meteor form, and that it maintains this form even if you heal it and knock its HP down to less than half. I'll test with Core form later.
 

Marty

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There's no reason to test Ditto and possible forme change mechanics for two reasons:

- Transform stopped copying species in Gen 5.
- Also since Gen 5, Transform locks you into the forme you Transformed into, even if your actual species can change formes. For example, a Meloetta Transformed into another Meloetta knowing Relic Song will not be able to change formes with Relic Song.

The only exception to the above is it's possible to Mega Evolve while Transformed.
 
There's no reason to test Ditto and possible forme change mechanics for two reasons:

- Transform stopped copying species in Gen 5.
- Also since Gen 5, Transform locks you into the forme you Transformed into, even if your actual species can change formes. For example, a Meloetta Transformed into another Meloetta knowing Relic Song will not be able to change formes with Relic Song.

The only exception to the above is it's possible to Mega Evolve while Transformed.
Dunno if it was tested, but can a Transformed Ditto use the exclusive Z-Moves?
 

Marty

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is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
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Dunno if it was tested, but can a Transformed Ditto use the exclusive Z-Moves?
No; like I said in what you quoted, Ditto is still Ditto after Transforming. A Transformed Alolan Raichu could theoretically use Stoked Sparksurfer if it had Thunderbolt among its Transformed moves though.
 
No; like I said in what you quoted, Ditto is still Ditto after Transforming. A Transformed Alolan Raichu could theoretically use Stoked Sparksurfer if it had Thunderbolt among its Transformed moves though.
Huh. That's a strange quirk. Why is Ditto able to Mega Evolve if it doesn't copy the Species byte? Do Quick Powder and Metal Powder retain their effects on a Transformed Ditto?
This is news to me, so please forgive my ignorance.
 

Marty

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is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
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Huh. That's a strange quirk. Why is Ditto able to Mega Evolve if it doesn't copy the Species byte? Do Quick Powder and Metal Powder retain their effects on a Transformed Ditto?
This is news to me, so please forgive my ignorance.
I didn't mention Ditto in that statement. You can only Mega Evolve if your species is compatible with your Mega Stone. Metal Powder and Quick Powder are hardcoded to stop working while Transformed (except in Gen 2).

We're getting pretty far off the purpose of this thread; let's stick to new mechanics.
 
Have the mechanics of learning a new move mid-battle changed? I know they aren't usually relevant to competitive play, but they are relevant in a particular OM that had been approved in Gen 6, and as it involved moves being replaced mid-battle, I'd like to know these mechanics before I submit it again for Gen 7. It would suck to get it approved and posted, only to learn of a new mechanic change that makes it unplayable.
  • What happens when a Pokémon learns a new move via level-up in a double battle, and you replace the move it had been about to use that turn with the new one?
  • What happens when a Pokémon that has been Encored/Choiced onto a move replaces that move by learning a new one, in the cases of both before and after using the old move?
  • What happens if a Pokémon is about to use a Z-Crystal with a move, and that move gets replaced, in the cases of both the new move being compatible with the crystal, and not?
  • What happens when a Pokémon uses Instruct, Encore, Disable, Sketch, Mimic, or Spite on a Pokémon that no longer knows the last move it used?
  • What happens if Spite is used to fully deplete a move's PP on the turn it had been selected for use, and then that move is replaced before the target of Spite has the opportunity to use it?
It occurs to me that all of these questions could apply to learning moves via Sketch, Mimic, and Transform, and it wouldn't hurt to test those too, but I'd still appreciate these questions being tested as they apply to learning new moves via level-up, as the mechanics could very well be different.

Also, here are some tangentially related questions while I'm here:
  • Can Instruct be used on Sketch, Mimic, and Transform if they had failed on their most recent use?
  • If a Pokémon knows Struggle as part of its actual moveset, what happens when it gets into situations that would force it to use Struggle, such as running out of PP or having an opponent use Imprison + Transform?
 
Alright, so I looked over the OP, and I had a quick question about Dancer/Choice items that I didn't see addressed. If a Choice Scarf Pokemon with Dancer switched into a dancing move and copied it, could they still choose a move the next turn (say, Baton Pass), or would they be locked into that dancing move?

EDIT: On showdown, this works, but I don't know about the carts
 
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Marty

Always more to find
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Programmeris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributor
Research Leader
Alright, so I looked over the OP, and I had a quick question about Dancer/Choice items that I didn't see addressed. If a Choice Scarf Pokemon with Dancer switched into a dancing move and copied it, could they still choose a move the next turn (say, Baton Pass), or would they be locked into that dancing move?
They would only be locked into the dance move if they also have that move in their moveset, much like Choiced use of Mimic or Transform or similar. Of course, if they were already Choice-locked into something else then the Dancer-copied move fails. Furthermore, if a Dancer Pokemon hasn't been Choice-locked yet and is outsped by something using a dance move, and the Dancer Pokemon selected a move that turn that isn't the dance move (which is also in its moveset, triggering the lock), the move it chose fails.
 
What happens if Instruct is used on a Pokémon that flinched? There are a few cases here:
  • A Pokémon and its opponent switch in on the same turn. Next turn, opponent uses Fake Out, making the Pokémon flinch. It is then Instructed.
  • A Pokémon uses a move while its opponent switches. Next turn, it chooses a different move, but its opponent uses Fake Out, making the Pokémon flinch. It is then Instructed.
  • A Pokémon uses a move while its opponent switches. Next turn, its ally tries to Instruct it, but its opponent used Fake Out. It then tries to use a different move.
 
Can we please, please confirm, once and for all, and then add it to the OP, if confusion really has been nerfed? (Make sure to check this on cart and not just on sim.) The lack of definitive confirmation is really making me paranoid.
 
For such a major mechanic, I think the lack of real confirmation is enough to de-confirm it. Throw it in the same box as the Unaware nerf and the Eviolite nerf for "changes that would be kind of nice but don't actually exist."
 

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