Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

Stuff like gyro ball are listed as having blank base powers, so why can't they do the same for z-moves?
Gyro Ball's Base Power is variable, which is not the same thing.

Generic Z-Moves get their Base Power from the base move. A Base Power of 1 was most likely set to ensure it does not cause weird behavior in case the move were hacked into a moveset, from which they don't have a base move. (Though I'm now curious if a crystal-free Z-Move can be used as a base move for a Z-Move. Say, Shattering Psyche based off Genesis Supernova)

Signature Z-Moves don't have that issue as they only have one base move - hence, the Base Power is fixed because it does not really cause any difference.
 
That's a filler to indicate it depends on the move it's used with since we couldn't leave it blank on the dex, and leaving it as 100 would be more misleading imo
Generic Z-Moves get their Base Power from the base move. A Base Power of 1 was most likely set to ensure it does not cause weird behavior in case the move were hacked into a moveset.
I'm getting the message that you guys are really not sure what the base power would be? Is it possible to do research on this?
 

Sondero

Don't you dare say you'd rather lose
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor
I'm getting the message that you guys are really not sure what the base power would be? Is it possible to do research on this?
  • When hacked into normal move slots, damaging Z-moves (Hydro Vortex, Bloom Doom, etc) becomes 1 BP / -- Accuracy moves of their respective types. Special Z-moves (Catastropika, pulverizing Pancake, etc) function normally with their actual Base Powers and effects. All normal move slot Z-Moves have 1 PP ( PP Ups don't work). You can use as many normal move slot Z-Moves as you want in a battle. You cannot power up a normal slot Z-Move with a Z-Crystal (it won't recognize the move as that typing at all). (UltiMario) Their PP can be restored with a Leppa Berry. (UltiMario)
All research put into that post have been tested on-cart, so it's a useful and certain way of getting info without having to post to ask here.

e: sniped
 

breh

強いだね
That's a filler to indicate it depends on the move it's used with since we couldn't leave it blank on the dex, and leaving it as 100 would be more misleading imo
actually,

  • When hacked into normal move slots, damaging Z-moves (Hydro Vortex, Bloom Doom, etc) becomes 1 BP / -- Accuracy moves of their respective types. Special Z-moves (Catastropika, pulverizing Pancake, etc) function normally with their actual Base Powers and effects. All normal move slot Z-Moves have 1 PP ( PP Ups don't work). You can use as many normal move slot Z-Moves as you want in a battle. You cannot power up a normal slot Z-Move with a Z-Crystal (it won't recognize the move as that typing at all). (UltiMario) Their PP can be restored with a Leppa Berry. (UltiMario)
e: lol triply too slow :(
 

Sondero

Don't you dare say you'd rather lose
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor
Not really a Gen 7 mechanic but what message(s) does Rest result in while Misty or Electric terrain are up?
For Misty Terrain, it's "[Pokemon] used Rest!" followed by "[Pokemon] surrounds itself with a protective mist!" (Source).
For Electric Terrain, it's "[Pokemon] used Rest!" followed by "[Pokemon] surrounds itself with electrified terrain!" (tested against the Tapu Koko you can catch in S/M).

Edit: I should clarify, that "[Pokemon]" should have "The opposing" in front of it, if it's the other side attempting to use it
 
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Cresselia92

formerly Darklatias92
While reading the entry of Ion Deluge, I was wondering... if Ion Deluge is triggered, does a Galvanize Pokémon turn the Normal-type attack into an Electric-type and gain a power boost before Ion Deluge is triggered? Or does the opposite happen and Ion Deluge takes the priority, turning the move into and Electric-type before Galvanize is triggered and preventing the power boost as a result?
 
While reading the entry of Ion Deluge, I was wondering... if Ion Deluge is triggered, does a Galvanize Pokémon turn the Normal-type attack into an Electric-type and gain a power boost before Ion Deluge is triggered? Or does the opposite happen and Ion Deluge takes the priority, turning the move into and Electric-type before Galvanize is triggered and preventing the power boost as a result?
We can't take anything for granted, but judging from what the Sun/Moon interface does, a Galvanized move is Electric-type from the get-go, so it shouldn't be affected by Ion Deluge. Kind of like Hidden Power.
 
  • In Gen 6, the games changed a move's type in this order: listed move type -> moves that call other moves use the new move instead -> Normalize changes the move to Normal -> moves now change type (Hidden Power/Judgment/Natural Gift/Techno Blast/Weather Ball) -> if the move is unchanged and still Normal (i.e. not Natural Gift with Chilan Berry), Aerilate/Pixilate/Refrigerate change it to Flying/Fairy/Ice -> if the move is Normal, Ion Deluge changes to Electric -> Electrify changes the move to Electric -> Protean activates -> Gems activate if the Gem matches the move type.
  • Has the order changed for Generation 7?
 

Merritt

"the other dude"
is a Pre-Contributor
When I answered originally I didn't know if you mean Ditto transforming into Ash-Greninja or Greninja with Battle Bond transforming, since it was a little unclear. From the video it seems you mean the first.

A pokemon when it transforms is still a species identified as the original pokemon, meaning that all things unique to the transformed into species don't apply to the transformed pokemon. This includes form changes, and (in this case) Water Shuriken's base power change and only hitting three times. For that video for example, it's still a Ditto, it just looks like an Ash-Greninja with the same stats as the opposing Ash-Greninja bar HP.
 
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When I answered originally I didn't know if you mean Ditto transforming into Ash-Greninja or Greninja with Battle Bond transforming, since it was a little unclear. From the video it seems you mean the first.

A pokemon when it transforms is still a species identified as the original pokemon, meaning that all things unique to the transformed into species don't apply to the transformed pokemon. This includes form changes, exclusive Z moves, and (in this case) Water Shuriken's base power change and only hitting three times. For that video for example, it's still a Ditto, it just looks like an Ash-Greninja with the same stats as the opposing Ash-Greninja bar HP.
So Water Shuriken's altered properties are hardcoded to only work on Ash-Greninja?

That's... weird. Forme-changing abilities being hardcoded to work on only one species is not unheard of, but a move's properties?
 
When I answered originally I didn't know if you mean Ditto transforming into Ash-Greninja or Greninja with Battle Bond transforming, since it was a little unclear. From the video it seems you mean the first.

A pokemon when it transforms is still a species identified as the original pokemon, meaning that all things unique to the transformed into species don't apply to the transformed pokemon. This includes form changes, exclusive Z moves, and (in this case) Water Shuriken's base power change and only hitting three times. For that video for example, it's still a Ditto, it just looks like an Ash-Greninja with the same stats as the opposing Ash-Greninja bar HP.
If that is the case, the Ditto exclusive items should still work after Transformation or Imposter trigger.
I will check again once I get my 3DS back by copying a Scarf Pokemon, but I am pretty sure it still stops working after Transform.

By the way, in Sun&Moon Ditto can spoil the Ability of the opponent in addition to his full moveset. You can do this by checking Ditto's stat changes window, as it will also let you check in the effect of your Ability, probably to help players that run Trace and have no clue of what "Magician" does or something.

It SHOULD be implemented that all enemy moves and ability get auto-revealed if Ditto switches in and you get the option to attack someone. In other words, if Ditto/Mew/Smeargle transform into a target and are not forced out before you can select another attack or opt to switch out, all enemy moves and Ability, will be revealed to the player, and to keep it consistent, they should show up as revealed on the screen. But if you get forced out immediately afterwards after transforming, you won't have had the option to see the moves and ability, and make them remain hidden. At the very least, you should get to see the ability and moves when checking on Ditto's stats when he is transformed.

Additionally, Ditto in gen 1, 2 and 4 should be able to access to any move learnable by Sketch, due to the Sketch and Rage glitches on Transform. After all, the Pomeg Glitch is allowed for, among other things, get Belly Drum level 5 Zigzaggon on Little Cup. Why not give Ditto some possible utility with that glitch?
 
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Merritt

"the other dude"
is a Pre-Contributor
If that is the case, the Ditto exclusive items should still work after Transformation or Imposter trigger.
I will check again once I get my 3DS back by copying a Scarf Pokemon, but I am pretty sure it still stops working after Transform.

Additionally, Ditto in gen 1, 2 and 4 should be able to access to any move learnable by Sketch, due to the Sketch and Rage glitches on Transform. After all, the Pomeg Glitch is allowed for, among other things, get Belly Drum level 5 Zigzaggon on Little Cup. Why not give Ditto some possible utility with that glitch?
Quick and Metal Powder are specifically exceptions, probably because they're exclusive items of a pokemon whose only job is transform.

Note that the Pomeg Glitch is pretty much exclusive to LC - decided a really long time ago purely for playability purposes. If you check, higher tiers don't actually allow the only implementation of the Pomeg Glitch that's applicable there, namely underleveled evolved pokemon (for example the sim will not validate a level 30 Tyranitar or level 5 Silcoon despite being possible to obtain through the Pomeg Glitch).

In terms of the Rage glitch it's also hilariously gamebreaking. Beyond just Ditto, any pokemon in gen 4 or earlier who is capable of learning Transform (Mew for example along with Ditto) as well as Mimic, Copycat, Assist, or Metronome (since these could all call transform in gen 4) are capable of learning any move. Regardless, that's getting a little off point of the topic of the thread.
 
ON TOPIC: Regardless of teorymon, the question that Ditto reveals Ability alongside the moveset still stands as something that MUST be implemented.

OFF TOPIC: Well, some of us still cling to the hope that some day this exception will be removed and those two items will become viable. In fact, I feel like testing it again regardless. After all, we are talking of TWO items that essentially became obsolete and useless after the advent of Imposter. It only makes sense that sooner or later they will be patched to work regardless. Not even TrollFreak is that evil.

Plus, just imagine the potential of Quick Powder Imposter: No more need to eat Knock Off to stand a chance against stall teams, being able to freely sweep after copying the Dragon Dance Gyarados, revenging Scarfed pokemon and pokemon with Sucker Punch without any fear...
 
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