Data Pokemon Sun/Moon Battle Mechanics Research

Apparently on Showdown Photon Geyser and Light That Burns The Sky are coded as always using the opponent's SpDef to deal damage. It is wrong as on cartridge these moves use Defense if you have a higher attack than special attack ( so no pseudo Psyshock effect ).


In this video at 1:48:30 we see an Ultra Necrozma with 263 Attack and 234 Special Attack dealing less Damage with Photon Geyser + Light That Burns The Sky than with Moongeist Beam on a +2Defense Stakataka. It's obvious that these moves were hitting Defense while Moongeist Beam uses Special Defense.
 
Photon Geyser can actually break the mold. I tested in Ultra Moon cci with citra, official enough.

Step 1: Bring a necrozma under the following set.
Code:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Sturdy
Jolly Nature
- Photon Geyser
- Skill Swap
Step 2: Encounter a wild pokemon that is neither a Dark- type nor a Mold Breaker.

Step 3: Use skill swap, then use photon geyser.

Result: That wild pokemon fainted and sturdy didn't trigger.

In Pokemon Showdown photon geyser can't break the mold. Please fix this.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Alright so just to confirm Photon Geyser mechanics I tested it along with Teryx38 and Kaori

Mold Breaker aspect - Photon Geyser on a Mimikyu
Physical defense damage aspect - Photon Geyser on a Chansey

180 Atk Stat Necrozma Photon Geyser (Physical) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-130 (30.6 - 36.5%) -- 62.9% chance to 3HKO

Battle Video: M93G-WWWW-WWWA-5TYA

Conclusion: It does indeed have the Mold Breaker feature and it also hits on the physical defense side. The chansey has 62 Def and 159 SpDef, so it would've done almost a third of that damage if it were on the special defense side.

Also, if Necrozma's attack is higher than special attack and Photon Geyser becomes physical, it completely becomes physical. Ergo, if you use a Physical Photon Geyser, you can use Counter on it (and not Mirror Coat).

Battle Video: 8U3W-WWWW-WWWA-5TYP

EDIT: Didn't know this was already tested in another thread lol
 
Last edited:
Hi all, so despite being a new move introduced in this generation there's not much in this thread about Laser Focus. The basic concept is simple, the next move is guaranteed to be a crit. However, there are some weird interactions with it implemented on PS!, that I'm not sure are in the game. Essentially the laser focus effect lasts until the end of the turn rather than the end of the move on PS!

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-665529644
Laser focus makes every single multihit move a crit.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7doublesou-665528333
Laser focus makes return a crit and then causes a second crit after instruct

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen71v1-665512134
Laser focus makes a future sight from the laser focus user that affected the target that turn crit and the following turn the move crits as well.

However, Laser Focus does not make a future sight attack from a different user crit https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665532400

Nor did the laser focus make the future sight attack crit after the user switches out with either a manual switch or baton pass
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-665533168 and https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7anythinggoes-665534504

(also the laser focus tag appeared to have been baton passes before being removed which was weird)
 
Alright so just to confirm Photon Geyser mechanics I tested it along with Teryx38 and Kaori

Mold Breaker aspect - Photon Geyser on a Mimikyu
Physical defense damage aspect - Photon Geyser on a Chansey

180 Atk Stat Necrozma Photon Geyser (Physical) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 109-130 (30.6 - 36.5%) -- 62.9% chance to 3HKO

Battle Video: M93G-WWWW-WWWA-5TYA

Conclusion: It does indeed have the Mold Breaker feature and it also hits on the physical defense side. The chansey has 62 Def and 159 SpDef, so it would've done almost a third of that damage if it were on the special defense side.

Also, if Necrozma's attack is higher than special attack and Photon Geyser becomes physical, it completely becomes physical. Ergo, if you use a Physical Photon Geyser, you can use Counter on it (and not Mirror Coat).

Battle Video: 8U3W-WWWW-WWWA-5TYP

EDIT: Didn't know this was already tested in another thread lol
if a necrozma uses a physical photon geyser whilst burned will its damage output be reduced?
 
Apparently, trading Arceus @ Z-crystal doesn't sanitize its form en route, even though the Z-crystal obviously can't be traded along with it. It will retain its previous form until the new recipient gives it another plate or crystal to hold, but the well-known behavior from BH is still intact (it counts as normal type, in spite of its appearance, unless it's actually holding one of those items).

The main ramification of this is that it should be possible to play the "Arceus bluff" throughout Ubers as opposed to just BH. As it stands, the teambuilder currently rejects it with a message like "Arceus needs to hold either Dread Plate or Darkinium Z," but this mechanic makes it so that is in fact not the case.
 
if a necrozma uses a physical photon geyser whilst burned will its damage output be reduced?
I would like to know this, too.

Other things that I would like to know without a doubt:
  • Is Tough Claws a 30% boost or a 33% boost? I'm asking because I'm getting sick and tired of conflicting information, and I want to know for certain.
  • Is Neuroforce a 20% or 25% boost? I got the official guide for USUM, and it claims that it's a 25% boost. Still, I just want to be absolutely sure as to whether or not that's true.
If someone can test this stuff on cartridge and/or provide answers, I will be very grateful.
 
I would like to know this, too.

Other things that I would like to know without a doubt:
  • Is Tough Claws a 30% boost or a 33% boost? I'm asking because I'm getting sick and tired of conflicting information, and I want to know for certain.
  • Is Neuroforce a 20% or 25% boost? I got the official guide for USUM, and it claims that it's a 25% boost. Still, I just want to be absolutely sure as to whether or not that's true.
If someone can test this stuff on cartridge and/or provide answers, I will be very grateful.
According to Bulbapedia and Serebii, Tough Claws is a 30% boost to contact moves
 
According to Bulbapedia and Serebii, Tough Claws is a 30% boost to contact moves
Ok, and what about the other stuff? You know, whether Neuroforce is a 20% or 25% boost (is the official game guide correct in saying it's 25%?), and what happens when you use a physical Photon Geyser while burned? (Does it default back to Sp. Atk, or what?) I would like it if this was tested on cartridge/in-game to avoid another "Aurora Veil stacks with Light Screen & Reflect" kind of incident.
 
Ok, and what about the other stuff? You know, whether Neuroforce is a 20% or 25% boost (is the official game guide correct in saying it's 25%?), and what happens when you use a physical Photon Geyser while burned? (Does it default back to Sp. Atk, or what?) I would like it if this was tested on cartridge/in-game to avoid another "Aurora Veil stacks with Light Screen & Reflect" kind of incident.
Well for a physical Photon Geyser, if you are burned it would be crazy for it to just suddenly become special, Photon Geyser would just become weaker. Unsure about Neuroforce though. Dataminers made the assumption that it works like Expert Belt so a 20% boost but the guide says it's 25%, who is right in this situation?
 
Apparently, trading Arceus @ Z-crystal doesn't sanitize its form en route, even though the Z-crystal obviously can't be traded along with it. It will retain its previous form until the new recipient gives it another plate or crystal to hold, but the well-known behavior from BH is still intact (it counts as normal type, in spite of its appearance, unless it's actually holding one of those items).

The main ramification of this is that it should be possible to play the "Arceus bluff" throughout Ubers as opposed to just BH. As it stands, the teambuilder currently rejects it with a message like "Arceus needs to hold either Dread Plate or Darkinium Z," but this mechanic makes it so that is in fact not the case.
This is only partially correct; any affected Arceus in this way cannot be used in online battles, so the behavior is limited to that of local play. I'm not sure of the policy on implementing Showdown mechanics, but since it can't be used online, I assume it shouldn't get implemented (it's a shame, too).
 
This is only partially correct; any affected Arceus in this way cannot be used in online battles, so the behavior is limited to that of local play. I'm not sure of the policy on implementing Showdown mechanics, but since it can't be used online, I assume it shouldn't get implemented (it's a shame, too).
Game Freak dodged a bullet there by bothering to check if non-Normal Arceus is holding its respective Z-Crystal or Plate.

Given the topic showed up, and since I don't have an Arceus to try it out, I'm curious about something... does Arceus change types if it's holding an incompatible Z-Crystal? More specifically, species-specific Z-Crystals. Say, does Arceus become a Dragon-type if it holds a Kommoonium Z?

I know it would be completely pointless (outside of Hackmons Cup) as it's incompatible, but I wonder how the game checks Z-Crystals for Multitype.
 

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a Community Contributor
According to Bulbapedia and Serebii, Tough Claws is a 30% boost to contact moves
Ok, and what about the other stuff? You know, whether Neuroforce is a 20% or 25% boost (is the official game guide correct in saying it's 25%?), and what happens when you use a physical Photon Geyser while burned? (Does it default back to Sp. Atk, or what?) I would like it if this was tested on cartridge/in-game to avoid another "Aurora Veil stacks with Light Screen & Reflect" kind of incident.
First Serebii is wrong on tough Claws as it still lists 33% and not the right value of 30% (that is indeed correct on Bulbapedia). The only real source on this is from someone reporting Marty's findings in the Showdown Github here, and so Tough Claws is indeed approximately 30%, this has been known even before S/M release (Feb 2015).
Secondly Neuroforce has the exact same effect as if Necrozma was wearing an Expert Belt, so it is approximately 20%, as explained in ths USUM Battle Mechanics thread by here.
Finally Photon Geyser while burned is still physical with damage then halved (source, same thread as above, here).
(The last two things were on the first post of the USUM Battle Mechanics thread btw.)

The source of all these claims are two users using cartridges, that have proven to be very reliable over the years.
 
First Serebii is wrong on tough Claws as it still lists 33% and not the right value of 30% (that is indeed correct on Bulbapedia). The only real source on this is from someone reporting Marty's findings in the Showdown Github here, and so Tough Claws is indeed approximately 30%, this has been known even before S/M release (Feb 2015).
Secondly Neuroforce has the exact same effect as if Necrozma was wearing an Expert Belt, so it is approximately 20%, as explained in ths USUM Battle Mechanics thread by here.
Finally Photon Geyser while burned is still physical with damage then halved (source, same thread as above, here).
(The last two things were on the first post of the USUM Battle Mechanics thread btw.)

The source of all these claims are two users using cartridges, that have proven to be very reliable over the years.
Thank you so much for providing these answers! Inconsistencies like that tend to really bug me.
 

Magii

formerly Magikingdra
During a nuzelock of UM, I fought Accerola and sent in Zoroark. She had a driftblim, with aftermath, as her final pokemon.

When I KOed, illusion was still active. Driftblim used aftermath, and illusion was not broken.

Further testing may be required.
 

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