• The moderators of this forum are the PS! staff.
  • Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon.

Pokemon Sun/Moon Random Battle sets

Got a pretty bad set for Omastar the other day of Shell Smash, Stealth Rock, Scald, And Hydro Pump. Another Case of redundant STABs. I feel that it should have either Earth Power or Ice Beam instead of Scald.
 
can having both stabs be mandatory on sawsbuck? jump kick is pretty random(that i seem to always get) that with either stab makes you unable to hit ghosts or completely walled by flying/bug/poison, while the stabs leave it resisted only by steel.
no

on a more serious note I feel like Sawsbuck actually needs all 3 of its attacking moves (Jump Kick obviously has coverage to deal with Steels), but in terms of situations where it gets stuck with sub/SD/2 attacks I think any combination is fine that each combo just gets walled by different things. I'd say Normal/Fighting is the worst combination because of immunities so I'll see if there's a way to fix that, but it'd be pretty difficult to work out the correct logic maybe. perhaps something like, try to ensure that a dual-type Normal shouldn't only have Normal and Fighting attacking moves?
 
Suggesting Earth Power be added to Probopass: I saw this was suggested on the first page of this thread but it appeared nothing came from it so I'd like to bring it back up. Probo gets Magnet Pull as one of its abilities and with its current moveset, the only thing it can really trap and hit hard is Skarmory/Celesteela (volt switch) and possibly Durant (power gem). The Pokemon that Probopass is supposed to trap resist both of its STABs and are immune to Toxic (and Thunder Wave/Volt Switch if said Steel type also has a Ground or Electric typing). I don't want Probopass to become this special sweeper, I just want to make its trapping ability useful.
 
Suggesting to rebalance Mega-Blaziken's movepool. Mega-Blaziken right now is pretty strong since his movepool contains only 6 moves, 2 of those being Swords Dance and Protect and the other 4 being attacks you'd find on a standard Uber set. These moves combined with Speed Boost give Mega-Blaziken a high chance to sweep an enemy team if it has no counter. I'd suggest adding some stat lowering attacks or 'potentially useless' moves like Mega-Gengar has (Perish Song, Taunt, Disable). For instance Superpower could be added, because of the stat drops. Will-o-Wisp could also be added since burn can be a pretty useful status. I also think Protect should be removed from the movepool entirely since it's a free +1 speed every other turn and makes it hard for the opponent to be caught off guard with a suprise super effective attack. IMO there is no reason an Uber should have Protect while PU walls like Claydol and Regirock don't.
 
Suggesting to rebalance Mega-Blaziken's movepool. Mega-Blaziken right now is pretty strong since his movepool contains only 6 moves, 2 of those being Swords Dance and Protect and the other 4 being attacks you'd find on a standard Uber set. These moves combined with Speed Boost give Mega-Blaziken a high chance to sweep an enemy team if it has no counter. I'd suggest adding some stat lowering attacks or 'potentially useless' moves like Mega-Gengar has (Perish Song, Taunt, Disable). For instance Superpower could be added, because of the stat drops. Will-o-Wisp could also be added since burn can be a pretty useful status. I also think Protect should be removed from the movepool entirely since it's a free +1 speed every other turn and makes it hard for the opponent to be caught off guard with a suprise super effective attack. IMO there is no reason an Uber should have Protect while PU walls like Claydol and Regirock don't.
I'm sorry did you just call Perish Song useless on Mega Gengar lol

Giving Pokemon "potentially useless" moves with the express purpose of nerfing goes against the philosophy of Random Battle, because Pokemon should have their best tools available to them to make them the most useful for your team, and for Blaziken its purpose is a glass cannon sweeper. Will-o-Wisp is just a free invitation for your opponent to hit hard against its paper defense even with reduced attack, and if we give it Superpower then other people will complain about not getting High Jump Kick.

Oh yeah, why should Claydol or Regirock even get Protect in Singles? They need the slot for an extra utility move to fulfill their roles better, not a temporary protection that ultimately only gives you Leftovers recovery for next turn when they can just use the same move
 
I'm sorry did you just call Perish Song useless on Mega Gengar lol

Giving Pokemon "potentially useless" moves with the express purpose of nerfing goes against the philosophy of Random Battle, because Pokemon should have their best tools available to them to make them the most useful for your team, and for Blaziken its purpose is a glass cannon sweeper. Will-o-Wisp is just a free invitation for your opponent to hit hard against its paper defense even with reduced attack, and if we give it Superpower then other people will complain about not getting High Jump Kick.

Oh yeah, why should Claydol or Regirock even get Protect in Singles? They need the slot for an extra utility move to fulfill their roles better, not a temporary protection that ultimately only gives you Leftovers recovery for next turn when they can just use the same move
You missed the point of my post entirely. First you say nerfing a pokemon with 'potentialy useless moves' is against the philosophy of Random battle. I'm sorry but since when are Will-O-Wisp and Superpower useless moves? Will-o-Wisp isnt even that bad considering Mega-Blaziken has 80 defence and hp (Talonflame has worse). I've also never asked for Superpower to replace High Jump Kick only for it to be added to the move pool, since Mega-Blaziken missing a High Jump Kick (or using it against a ghost type) is sometimes the only counter to it sweeping your team, while Superpower can't be used turn after turn, making sweeps harder. I was asking for Mega-Blaziken's movepool to be taken another look at. People that play random battle a lot will know that only a hand full of pokemon get Protect as a potential move. To my knowledge only 2 other Ubers get Protect, being Aegislash and its SIGNATURE MOVE King's Shield and Gengar with a Perish Trap set. Mega-Blaziken sweeps are easy to set up and hard to counter and, as I said in my last post, Protect gives Mega-Blaziken +1 speed for free while making it almost impossible to catch your opponent off guard. Part of the appeal of random battle in my opinion is blasting /being blasted away by your opponent that has a suprise super effective attack. I don't want make Mega-Blaziken useless but i do feel like Protect has to be replaced/removed, which I should have made more clear in my first post.

Also idc about Gengar/Claydol/Regirock since those were just examples and personal opinions, so please give constructive feedback when you're trying to crack down on someones suggestion.
 

Merritt

literally the textbook definition of a tsundere
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
You missed the point of my post entirely.
ironic.png

The point is that adding/removing moves for the express purpose of nerfing them is against the philosophy of Random Battle. "Potentially useless" was the phrase you yourself described it as.

Personally, while Mega Blaziken is strong, I can't say it's particularly more difficult to deal with than many of the other Uber tier Pokemon.
 
Comments in bold italics.

You missed the point of my post entirely. First you say nerfing a pokemon with 'potentialy useless moves' is against the philosophy of Random battle.

Merritt covered this already; it was your words, not mine, that said they were "potentially useless".

I'm sorry but since when are Will-O-Wisp and Superpower useless moves? Will-o-Wisp isnt even that bad considering Mega-Blaziken has 80 defence and hp (Talonflame has worse).

Talonflame also can get Roost.

I've also never asked for Superpower to replace High Jump Kick only for it to be added to the move pool, since Mega-Blaziken missing a High Jump Kick (or using it against a ghost type) is sometimes the only counter to it sweeping your team, while Superpower can't be used turn after turn, making sweeps harder.

I would never choose an Attack-lowering move on a sweeper over a move that always does consistent damage and only really gets its drawback 10% of the time (which it can take once) and against Ghosts. The only mons who use Superpower have no better Fighting coverage. With that in mind, adding Superpower alongside HJK is senseless. Especially since you very clearly stated that you wanted a stat-lowering attacks to balance it out.

I was asking for Mega-Blaziken's movepool to be taken another look at. People that play random battle a lot will know that only a hand full of pokemon get Protect as a potential move. To my knowledge only 2 other Ubers get Protect, being Aegislash and its SIGNATURE MOVE King's Shield and Gengar with a Perish Trap set.

That's also because Protect is mostly a waste of space on the majority of Pokemon, because 4MSS and all.

Mega-Blaziken sweeps are easy to set up and hard to counter and, as I said in my last post, Protect gives Mega-Blaziken +1 speed for free while making it almost impossible to catch your opponent off guard.

Merritt already covered this IMO, it's not like some insurmountable force. GeoXern and Zygarde are also about as powerful and hard to deal with.

Part of the appeal of random battle in my opinion is blasting /being blasted away by your opponent that has a suprise super effective attack.

I guess. IMO the appeal lies more in one of you having a surprise Pokemon in the back, not a surprise super effective attack. Movepools are public knowledge and although I'm not a high level Random Battle player, I'm sure that super effective attacks won't really be a "surprise" to high level players.

I don't want make Mega-Blaziken useless but i do feel like Protect has to be replaced/removed, which I should have made more clear in my first post.

And if I remove it, more people will complain about it not having it when it's such a strong tool to its set.
 
I've found Zarel's latest joke, do I win a prize?
159069


It did at least have 4 attacking moves (including Foul Play), none of which did any sort of damage coming off that huge base 65 atk
 
Has Foul Play, Knock Off, Brave Bird, and U-turn from what I can see in the screenshot.
I've seen that 'Buzz a handful of times, and I assume band being a possible item is due to it having 4 attacks in its move pool. But I don't think any of those 4 attacks should be removed, as they all can come in useful. With a total of 9 possible accessible moves, if my calculation is correct, the odds of getting a full offense Mandibuzz are about 0.7%, which is so low that I don't even think it's worth to look at ways to prevent this, without compromising its utility in more common sets.

Also I want to bring back up the idea I posted a couple weeks ago about Rhyperior getting ice punch instead of rock blast*. ;_;
*Blast moves never work properly when they need to!
 
Also I want to bring back up the idea I posted a couple weeks ago about Rhyperior getting ice punch instead of rock blast*. ;_;
Ice Punch would be pretty neat for dealing with the very dangerous Ground/Dragon + Ground/Flying mons in the meta, along with allowing Rhyperior to actually hit Grass types without having to rely on an 85% acc Megahorn, or worse, a neutral 80% acc Stone Edge. +1, although this does mean that Rhyperior might be walled even harder by bulky Waters.
 
I just got a stabless cresselia with moonblast/icebeam/calmmind/sub.
It still worked tho because cresselia is broken but there's no reason for cress to have moonblast over psyc stab.
 
Suggesting Earth Power be added to Probopass: I saw this was suggested on the first page of this thread but it appeared nothing came from it so I'd like to bring it back up. Probo gets Magnet Pull as one of its abilities and with its current moveset, the only thing it can really trap and hit hard is Skarmory/Celesteela (volt switch) and possibly Durant (power gem). The Pokemon that Probopass is supposed to trap resist both of its STABs and are immune to Toxic (and Thunder Wave/Volt Switch if said Steel type also has a Ground or Electric typing). I don't want Probopass to become this special sweeper, I just want to make its trapping ability useful.
It's done. We dropped Power Gem to prevent it from getting Specs, since it's the less useful of the two STABs

Also we removed Pain Split, because seriously, what use does that actually have on Probopass?
 
Also I want to bring back up the idea I posted a couple weeks ago about Rhyperior getting ice punch instead of rock blast*. ;_;
*Blast moves never work properly when they need to!
The Immortal is resisting the removal of Rock Blast, but Ice Punch is still a good idea. Also, just noticed it has Aqua Tail, which really isn't a move it should be running, so I'm thinking replace Aqua Tail with Ice Punch.
 
The Immortal is resisting the removal of Rock Blast, but Ice Punch is still a good idea. Also, just noticed it has Aqua Tail, which really isn't a move it should be running, so I'm thinking replace Aqua Tail with Ice Punch.
Forgot about aqua tail. It also would make sense. It's nice on Heatran (due to air balloon), but in general, it doesn't provide much since water type weaknesses are fire, ground and rock. Fire is taken care of by EQ/Stone Edge (or blast), ground would be by ice punch (which doesn't hit as hard as aqua tail, but it provides so much more utility as I showed in my post a couple weeks ago - Salamence, Landorus, Zygarde, etc.), and rock by EQ. I'd agree with that switch, dunno about others tho.
 
Why does Kommo-o have both Kommonium and Dragonium? Can we just take Dragonium off because its just straight up inferior?
If Kommo-o has Clanging Scales and no other previously-selected Pokemon has a Z-Crystal yet, it will always get Kommonium, otherwise it gets Dragonium for its Outrage. I don't see the problem here; Dragonium with Clanging Scales does not exists
 


Suggesting that Toucannon have Brave Bird replace its current Beak Blast. For a mon that plays the way Toucannon does, unless you're in absolute desperation mode against an opponent that relies on contact moves, (Hitmonchan, Dodrio, and Bisharp to name a few), you'd much rather have Brave Bird's power over the burn chance. A look at Toucannon's stat spread and some of the other moves it often gets should further support this.
Its main goal is to wallbreak, and Brave Bird is a far better option to help it achieve this goal. And I haven't even talked about Beak Blast's negative priority yet.

See I know it's not fast, but with the nature of Toucannon, using a move that lowers its priority and increases the already decent chance that it moves last is a huge no-no. This is especially in full effect against the mons that are in fact slower than the toucan, especially against slower Haze users, such as Cofagrigus and Toxapex, or in low HP situations against slower mons. I know Haze isn't that common of a move in the format, but Beak Blast's priority means that the Haze will happen before your attack lands. I guess that you could use another one of your other attacks, but against most Haze users you'd much rather use your Flying STAB, and the aforementioned negative priority halts your ability to. If you see the toucan in a low-health situation against a mon you're faster than, what sounds more appealing: Nuking the mon in question with the consistency of Brave Bird, or you take the time to 'heat up your beak' and they finish you off relatively unscathed other than that burn chance provided they used a contact move. I know what I'd rather do - weaken it with Brave Bird, dying to the recoil, then getting a switch into something that can finish what I just weakened. I guess it would be nice to have these mons burned, but it'd be nicer to have them severely weakened by Brave Bird.

The only real advantage Beak Blast has over the classic BB is the burn on contact and the lack of recoil. The negative priority is the clear nail in the coffin dragging it down so much, and it's not like the recoil is super detrimental to Toucannon as it's not meant to tank much anyway. I can see the situations in which Beak Blast can be useful; against the mons that use contact moves exclusively, but after considering this, I then look into situations where I'd much rather have Brave Bird, and Brave Bird wins every time.

Basically, with how Toucannon plays, you'd rather it have the consistent offensive option.
 
If Kommo-o has Clanging Scales and no other previously-selected Pokemon has a Z-Crystal yet, it will always get Kommonium, otherwise it gets Dragonium for its Outrage. I don't see the problem here; Dragonium with Clanging Scales does not exists
The point was me asking why it gets 2 z moves of the same type when one is clearly beter. It's like giving Alolan-Raichu a chance to get Electrium instead of Alorachium when Stoked Sparksurfer is downright beter. I would understand if it got 2 different types of z moves like dragon and fighting, but why 2 of the same type? The simple fix would just be take off Outrage from the set since Clanging Scales is usually beter anyway.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 0)

Top