Pokemon Sword & Shield Discussion RD: 15/11/2019 **Official news only**

What NaturalTropius said is still essentially true though, especially in regards to these games. While Magnemite wasn't in DP's regional Pokédex, it was still obtainable without the need of transfer, trade etc. In the post-game, you could find it through a Swarm (or Poké Radar, I don't remember).

All of these Pokémon were also available in BW's post-game for instance. And discounting a couple scant cases of version exclusivity (remember when Psyduck was Leafgreen-exclusive? Remember that?), the only exception here is that Heracross wasn't in SM. But it was made available in USUM's postgame.

So if the point being made here is "these four Pokémon have been obtainable in every game so far, so it's odd that they haven't been seen in SwSh yet", then it's still a point that stands.
 
What NaturalTropius said is still essentially true though, especially in regards to these games. While Magnemite wasn't in DP's regional Pokédex, it was still obtainable without the need of transfer, trade etc. In the post-game, you could find it through a Swarm (or Poké Radar, I don't remember).

All of these Pokémon were also available in BW's post-game for instance. And discounting a couple scant cases of version exclusivity (remember when Psyduck was Leafgreen-exclusive? Remember that?), the only exception here is that Heracross wasn't in SM. But it was made available in USUM's postgame.

So if the point being made here is "these four Pokémon have been obtainable in every game so far, so it's odd that they haven't been seen in SwSh yet", then it's still a point that stands.
Yeah, that's what I was going for, haha!
This is where I got the list, and it's pretty interesting seeing how these ones are always there!
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pokémon_that_appear_in_every_regional_Pokédex
 

Pikachu315111

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Geez, I thought I had time but out of nowhere the embargo is lifted and the early reviews are coming in. :psynervous:

And on top of that I just got the GameInformer issue! I haven't read through it entirely yet... but it doesn't look like anything major was revealed, at least image wise. By this weekend I'll give it a read through to see if there's anything I can get from it.

Dusk Lycanroc was legal in VGC, but the ability needed to evolve it was something inheritable. I can see at least LongMeowth being banned.
Why ban something that'll never be used?

and Charizard gets a form while Venusaur and Blastoise don't (at least be fair guys).
The stopped being fair when Charizard got two Megas. :P

And speaking of those, did any of you notice that the D-Max clouds circle Eevee's right ear instead of floating above it?

That possibly mean that the clouds are tied to each model, and I really hope this is just for G-Max, because if it isn't, we have a D-Max model for every single pokémon in the Galar Dex.

This is absoutely insane!!!
It's only inexcusable for the Dynamaxed Pokemon. They only needed to expand the normal model, use a tool to smooth out the texture (if even that is needed), and have the clouds be a separate element. They don't need their own bigger model.

However for Gigantamax Pokemon I could have looked the other way. Since these are completely new models if they wanted to play with the placement of the clouds thus making it part of the model that's fine.

I look forward to Absolute Unit Blastoise.


I can understand why they showed exclusively Gen 1 Pokemon today. It’s their anniversary and Generation 1 Pokemon are easily the most well known and marketable to the general public. So it makes perfect sense. However it hits at a bad time for some of the more dedicated fanbase who are still on the fence or annoyed with Pokémon’s decisions as of late.
And I get that... but at the same time when is it enough? WE GET IT! Gen I are VERY important games to you, GameFreak, but give it a break already. You want to show us how special Gen I is to you but all you're doing this constantly doing things with only Gen I is making it NOT feel special. Especially when you're constantly honing in on just the very popular Pokemon from Gen I: Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Eevee, etc..

Funny thing is: almost all of Gen 1 original players don't play Pokémon anymore.
I wouldn't say that... but I would say the players they're trying to advertise to fall under that umbrella. Well, they did just release Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee so I guess they have those new players (which is why I'm not so bothered by the Gigantamaxed Pikachu & Eevee). Though even then those kids probably wouldn't be attached to say, Charizard, Meowth, and Butterfree as Gen I players would have been (Pikachu & Eevee are the Starters thus the thrill of evolving your Charmander to Charizard isn't there, not to mention it and the other two probably got a lot of importance via the anime. And while Meowth is still in the anime, Charizard and Butterfree aren't and Butterfree feels important to Gen I players due to its release episode).

It's still not clear whether a Pokémon capable of Gigantamaxing can even do a regular Dynamax.
Hm, well for most Pokemon that can Gigantamax, if a Pokemon can only do on or the other, it'll just mean before you create a team you got to decided if you want the Gigantamaxed Pokemon or not. Because you're right it would be unfair if those Pokemon had a choice of both. If you don't want that Pokemon's Gigantamax but for whatever reason still want it to Dynamax it it'll probably mean you need to raise another Pokemon of that species that's not so special.

HOWEVER then I realized for Pikachu, Eevee, and Meowth this possibly may not be an option. If those three did get increased stats it would only be for the event ones that can Gigantamax. Their increased stats now can't be applied to the general Dynamax (unless there's a way outside of battle to choose what way the Pokemon goes). Pikachu can't set up Electric Terrain, Eevee is stuck having its G-Max Move only be fully effective on an opposite gender opponent, and Meowth is stuck with an effect only useful in-game but not in battle. Wow, GF really didn't put any thought into this, did they? Or they didn't want to make these three Event Pokemon that good... which means they purposely wasted time and a Gigantamaxed spot that could have gone to another Pokemon.

For better or for worse, Gen I Pokemon, especially Pikachu, Eevee, the starters, Mew and Mewtwo, and a handful of others made popular by the anime, are mascots, and get, and will continue to get, preferential treatment.

Think of it in the same vein as Disney characters. Mickey Mouse, Goofey or Donald Duck, aren’t the most utilized characters in their film canon, but they have a ton of merchandise based on them, and remain popular with people, because they have a long history and were there form the start.

In terms of marketing to mass appeal and profit, it would make as much sense for GF to give Maractus a Gigantamax form as it would for Disney to introduce a toy line for Brother Bear or Treasure Planet today.
But you pointed out the problem with that analogy: Mickey, Donald & Goofy may be Disney's mascots but they're not in every movie or merchandise they make. Using Brother Bear & Treasure Planet are extreme examples, because Disney puts a ton of focus on their other characters such as Frozen, the Disney Princesses, Star Wars, and also push merchandise for whatever new movie is coming out.

However no matter the new mechanic, GF seems to default back to Gen I. It's like to figure out what Pokemon they want to be part of the new mechanic they start with Gen I thinking they'd then move onto Gen II... but end up filling their quota with Gen I mons so don't bother going to the other gens for other possibilities. Each and every time.

Why is it still that you can only infatuate opponents of the opposite sex? Eevee's new move is a cuddle, everyone loves a cuddle. They could have it work on all opponents and be actually sort of useful, but no, 'can't do that, it's gay' :facepalm:
Maybe they should make a new sub-affliction for Infatuation called Admiration like Poison has with Badly Poison. Admiration works on both genders thus it's a rarer form and reserved for maybe signature moves/Abilities.


Well in that case im even more confused; marketting for this game has been super tight lipped and obviously the game isnt out yet so...whats the gripe here? We cant judge the lack of content on a game nobody has yet :psyduck:
But we can gripe on how they're advertising and promoting the game.

GF: Hey, you like Gen I?
Users: Well we're kind of getting of it...
GF: Well here's MORE GEN I!

Conveniently ignores the fact that SuMo has debatably the most competent story in the series
Eh, I'd still give it to Gen V for best story (BW was stronger but B2W2 had its moments and intrigue, plus being a sequel it overall made Gen V feel more filled out) but SM did have a pretty good story... too bad USUM had to mess it up...

I think i can counter that point with another; Gen 1 is the gen that needs the most tune ups because not only was it an unbalanced mess its the gen that will always suffer the most as power creep continues. Outside the usual mascots of zars, mewtwo, pikachu and eevee, how many changes could we really say were unnecessary?
And they do this by constantly giving them the "equalizer" mechanics instead of, you know, actually going back and adjusting their stats? Because if that's the issue they're not fixing the problem. If the honest reason is power creep of recent gens then go back to Gen I, II, and maybe even III and adjust stats to modern standards.


I must admit, whenever this point is brought up for Pokémon, I struggle to understand how it's any different to Mario Sunshine's F.L.U.D.D. or Metroid Prime 2's Dark/Light system or Zelda: Twilight Princess's Wolf transformation. Different games in a series will have their own unique gimmick and when it comes to the next game, is likely to discard it and move on to a next one. Should we start complaining about how Nintendo discarded Galaxy's gravity and planet gimmick? Are we going to start saying that it's monstrous how the most recent Zelda game didn't include Wind Waker's sailing after we got so incredibly attached to it?

I don't understand why Pokémon in particular must pre-occupy itself with retaining everything it's ever done, taking up space and dev time for older, hereditary concepts just because they were there before rather than focusing on something that's interesting, new and fits the new game. This also very much applies to the Pokédex situation: we don't exactly see or expect every successive Kirby game keep every character or enemy it's ever made; we don't see or expect Monster Hunter to retain every monster it's ever had in every successive game; so why should Pokémon be any different?

A new game in a series is not going to have every single thing the last one had, and that's fine. There's no need to treat the loss of a mechanic as if Game Freak is some awful monster discarding everything you love when literally any game franchise out there does the exact same thing and never gets flak for it. If you miss Megas, fine -- I do too, a lot; in fact I don't like how the Dynamax mechanic looks in many aspects. But there's no problem with moving on and doing something else, as every successful game franchise does.
I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. Honestly, what I'm trying to say has NOTHING to do with them preserving mechanics. Mechanically speaking I'm fine with them getting rid of Mega Evos and Z-Moves because Dynamaxing I feel is a good replacement if not closer to what they those mechanics should have been like in the first place.

What I was getting at was them taking all the designs of the Mega Pokemon and throwing them away when they could just have easily made them the Gigantamax forms for those Pokemon who are in the Galar Dex in SwSh. For example, let's say the Weedle family got into SwSh. With Butterfree getting a shiny new Gigantamax, Beedrill could have been given its Mega Beedrill design as its Gigantamax. But no, just like how Butterfree was left behind when Beedrill got a Mega, not Beedrill is being left behind by Butterfree getting a Gigantamax even though they could just have easily converted the old Mega designs into Gigantamax forms. And this isn't just for Beedrill but all Pokemon who had a Mega; except Charizard but it was just straight up given a new Gigantamax form.

What DHR-107 and TMan87 said is also true, but that wasn't what I was trying to get across. My focus here is on the designs and how they could have kept and converted the designs to help the new mechanic be better.

Y'know what? Considering the incredibly messy marketing cycle for this game, I'm starting to wonder if come Gen 9 or DP remakes or whatever Pokemon has in store for us in the future they'll just go back to giving us big info dumps that leave little to nothing to surprise us in the end. If I was a top-tier Game Freak PR manager, right now I'd be thinking to myself "This relatively spoiler-free approach has caused more problems than it's worth".
It's not the quantity, it's the quality. Because up till now the drip feed they were giving us was fine. I liked what was being shown with the new Pokemon and the Galarian Forms (though I'll admit with them showing Galarian Ponyta was getting worried Zigzagoon was the only non-Gen I Galarian Form).

And then they dumped not 1, not 2, but FIVE Gen I Gigantamax Pokemon on us. After Alolan forms were kept to Gen I. After Pokemon Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee was a Gen I remake with only the original 151 Pokemon (plus Meltan, Alolan Forms, and Megas). And had they just showed Charizard & Butterfree that would have also been fine (though my problems would still exist due to Gigantamax Charizard) if they also showed off non-Gen I Pokemon. But no, they also had to include Pikachu, Eevee, and Meowth.

GF's PR is mulch (not helped by Masuda wanting to be the spokesman for GF). ANY actual PR worth their salt would know fans are tired of Gen I so would know they should be showing us more non-Gen I Galarian Forms and Gigantamax Pokemon (if they had them). But this just shows GF at this point it only entertaining themselves and forcing it on the fanbase who have moved on.


ONTO CURRENT EVENTS!

Game informers article reveals a few early locatuons: the Slumbering Weald, Wedhurst, presumably our starting town, and Motostoke city.
Darn, hoping they'd keep up the joke and not reveal them.

Oh well, still got Impidimp... maybe we should make Impidimp a new emoji...

YOU CAN SKIP THE CATCHING TUTORIAL?!
Nintendo life also mentioned that after you fight Hop, Leon will ask if you need to learn type advantages... and you can decline the explanation.
There is an Arceus!

The way you're able to skip the catching tutorial is by catching Pokémon with the Poké Balls your mum gives you with some spending money after you get your starter prior to the tutorial from your rival, so that should give a good idea of how the flow of the start goes -- get your starter, get some stuff from your mum, see/fight/catch some Pokémon in the wild and then meet your rival.
That's a pretty neat way of doing it, makes it feel both organic and a "secret skip" to experienced players. :blobthumbsup:

Real talk Dhelmise is one of my favorite alolan pokemon because its huge and came out of nowhere when fighting Acerola an genuinely surprised me first time around. Plua come on, living possessed sea weed that hunts Wailords? That is hardcore~
Not to mention how you encounter it. You're just fishing off a side of a boat cause there's a random fishing spot there WHEN SUDDENLY POSSESSED ANCHOR! Well, maybe after a few tries, wished they either made it more common or at least programmed it so the first time you tried it would be a Dhelmise just for the surprise factor

Well, you never know... it could be a Galarian Seedot :smogthink:
What would they even do to Seedot? Make it a different kind of seed/nut?

It should be noted that said TWO REGIONS, it's not two times the size of the entire Hyrule map:

You see those yellow boundary lines? That's a region in Breath of the Wild.

Still, that's a lot of area.

oooh, maybe no zubats in caves!
Instead it would be Woobat and Noibat! We will never escape the cave bats.

PHEW! Caught up. Now tomorrow I got a batch of videos to watch though I don't think I'll be getting to the reading material until the weekend. But man, things are beginning to pick up steam! Man this hype train has been one bumpy ride...
 
It should be noted that said TWO REGIONS, it's not two times the size of the entire Hyrule map:

You see those yellow boundary lines? That's a region in Breath of the Wild.

Still, that's a lot of area.
So... for someone not interested in Breath of the Wild... how big is two regions?
 
What I was getting at was them taking all the designs of the Mega Pokemon and throwing them away when they could just have easily made them the Gigantamax forms for those Pokemon who are in the Galar Dex in SwSh. For example, let's say the Weedle family got into SwSh. With Butterfree getting a shiny new Gigantamax, Beedrill could have been given its Mega Beedrill design as its Gigantamax. But no, just like how Butterfree was left behind when Beedrill got a Mega, not Beedrill is being left behind by Butterfree getting a Gigantamax even though they could just have easily converted the old Mega designs into Gigantamax forms. And this isn't just for Beedrill but all Pokemon who had a Mega; except Charizard but it was just straight up given a new Gigantamax form.
Honestly, I like that they aren't reusing the designs. Even though some of the mega designs are great, reusing them for something that is similar to but distinctly different from Mega Evolution would feel really bland and a bit dishonest. "Here is Gigantamaxed Beedrill. Pay no attention to its visual similarity to Mega Beedrill. They're two separate things."
 
Concerning design re-use, it's also worth noting that the Gigantamax designs seem to be following a trend to be designed to look very massive and imposing, very kaiju-like while not being as radical of changes compared to the base states: Alcremie, Charizard, Drednaw and Butterfree are good examples of this. I don't know if the Mega designs would mesh well with this philosophy, although I guess stuff like Tyranitar and Garchomp could manage. Slimmer/smaller designs like Banette, Beedrill, Lopunny and Lucario though? Yeah, they ain't gonna work out all that well. And if they re-use some designs but not others, then that just leads to more favoritism problems.
 
It's only inexcusable for the Dynamaxed Pokemon. They only needed to expand the normal model, use a tool to smooth out the texture (if even that is needed), and have the clouds be a separate element. They don't need their own bigger model.
Exactly what I meant. If they didn't pull a Lillie and made a D-Max model for each mon just to add the D-Max clouds, then I'm totally cool with it.

It's Game Freak though. I don't like the odds on this bet.

What I was getting at was them taking all the designs of the Mega Pokemon and throwing them away when they could just have easily made them the Gigantamax forms for those Pokemon who are in the Galar Dex in SwSh. For example, let's say the Weedle family got into SwSh. With Butterfree getting a shiny new Gigantamax, Beedrill could have been given its Mega Beedrill design as its Gigantamax. But no, just like how Butterfree was left behind when Beedrill got a Mega, not Beedrill is being left behind by Butterfree getting a Gigantamax even though they could just have easily converted the old Mega designs into Gigantamax forms. And this isn't just for Beedrill but all Pokemon who had a Mega; except Charizard but it was just straight up given a new Gigantamax form.
It's going to be particularly hilarious if only the Event Pikachu and Eevee can G-Max.

Why? The whole Partner concept just gets yeeted out of the window because even if you get them into SnS, they can't get the G-Max form made because of LGPE.

Really hoping a max Dynamax level enables G-Max for the mons who have access to it, or things are going to get really weird.


Regarding the whole "Reusing Megas as G-Max forms" issues, GF wrote themselves into a corner. Plain and simple.

They could weave around it a bit with something like "This G-Max form is similar to their Mega form, but without the Mega Stone, it's not quite as stable but still very powerful." (Cue some stat nerfs compensated by Max Moves.)

It would be a bit of a handwave but also a nice nod to the Mega Stone mechanic and how it and the trainer bonds bring out the best in those mons.
 
Exactly what I meant. If they didn't pull a Lillie and made a D-Max model for each mon just to add the D-Max clouds, then I'm totally cool with it.
Don't quote me on this, but I believe the whole "1 lillie for each area stupid GF" was a technique to save RAM. Regardless it's not applicable to compare the 2 as each dynamax model being different than base is a straight up waste, with little conceivable purpose (as the base model is already in play).
 
It's going to be particularly hilarious if only the Event Pikachu and Eevee can G-Max.

Why? The whole Partner concept just gets yeeted out of the window because even if you get them into SnS, they can't get the G-Max form made because of LGPE.
You cant transfer your partner because the partner pokemon is literally integeral to lets go, for cutscenes, Travel, etc. Why do you think these soecial pokemon are save bonsuses and cant evolve?

Regarding the whole "Reusing Megas as G-Max forms" issues, GF wrote themselves into a corner. Plain and simple.

They could weave around it a bit with something like "This G-Max form is similar to their Mega form, but without the Mega Stone, it's not quite as stable but still very powerful." (Cue some stat nerfs compensated by Max Moves.)

It would be a bit of a handwave but also a nice nod to the Mega Stone mechanic and how it and the trainer bonds bring out the best in those mons.
Or, hear me out on this one....We keep them as seperate entities and stop trying to mash concept together. Seriously, why in the world do people think this is a good idea? Its an Awful idea both lore wise and marketing wise. And i fucking LOVE mega evolutions. But i don't want them anywhere near this dynamax stuff at all. That would make dynamax all the less special and just complicate things for...what exactly? Even if the models were there, the stats and abilitirs would not. Its extremely frustrating to see people want this with such little thought to everything around it.
 
You cant transfer your partner because the partner pokemon is literally integeral to lets go, for cutscenes, Travel, etc. Why do you think these soecial pokemon are save bonsuses and cant evolve?


Or, hear me out on this one....We keep them as seperate entities and stop trying to mash concept together. Seriously, why in the world do people think this is a good idea? Its an Awful idea both lore wise and marketing wise. And i fucking LOVE mega evolutions. But i don't want them anywhere near this dynamax stuff at all. That would make dynamax all the less special and just complicate things for...what exactly? Even if the models were there, the stats and abilitirs would not. Its extremely frustrating to see people want this with such little thought to everything around it.
Didn't know that. I haven't play LGPE. My bad, I'll take that L.


As for the potential recycling of forms, what I meant was literally just that. A possibility. Sure, Zard deconfirmed it, but think about it this way:

* Some mons absolutely need their megas for any kind of relevance. People also like said megas. With the dexit and loss of certain features, people just want their favorite pokémons to still be relevant or at least good.

The whole issue with people trying to mash things together is a preservation instinct because as far as anyone knows, Megas are about to go the same route the type crystals went after Gen V.

You know why this is happening. It's because GF just piled gimmicks on top of more gimmicks and when it came the time to actually clean up the mess, they just decided to put a chunk of the pile in a bag and chuck it out of a window.
They simply wrote themselves into a corner, messed up any semblance of good will with their atrocious PR and now you got this kind of situation happening.
 

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So... for someone not interested in Breath of the Wild... how big is two regions?
That depends on the regions. But even the Great Plateau (by far the smallest region, the round-ish one seen in the lower middle) takes hours to explore thoroughly.

Of course, the perceived size of an area depends on how intricate the terrain is. An open plain can be traversed and charted pretty quickly, while an area full of crags, trees and ravines can take ages to navigate. Breath of the Wild has one sidequest where you're told to find a shrine, and shown a picture displaying both the shrine and the building you're standing in (they are only a couple hundred meters apart), but finding the shrine took me half an hour because the terrain was so rough.
 
Didn't know that. I haven't play LGPE. My bad, I'll take that L.


As for the potential recycling of forms, what I meant was literally just that. A possibility. Sure, Zard deconfirmed it, but think about it this way:

* Some mons absolutely need their megas for any kind of relevance. People also like said megas. With the dexit and loss of certain features, people just want their favorite pokémons to still be relevant or at least good.

The whole issue with people trying to mash things together is a preservation instinct because as far as anyone knows, Megas are about to go the same route the type crystals went after Gen V.

You know why this is happening. It's because GF just piled gimmicks on top of more gimmicks and when it came the time to actually clean up the mess, they just decided to put a chunk of the pile in a bag and chuck it out of a window.
They simply wrote themselves into a corner, messed up any semblance of good will with their atrocious PR and now you got this kind of situation happening.
There is literally nothing that says that says Mega Evolutions are gone forever. They can bring any mechanic or item back at any time they please now and it will be considered fresh. Think about how how different LGPE meta is from USUM. Seeing as LGPE was the beta for a bunch of ideas, I wouldnt put it pass thenlm to create a gane this very gen that brings back megas and introduces more.
 
You cant transfer your partner because the partner pokemon is literally integeral to lets go, for cutscenes, Travel, etc. Why do you think these soecial pokemon are save bonsuses and cant evolve?
You underestimate the power of lore. They could make up a reason on how the Partner Pokémon is transferred, but you still see it in Let's Go.
 
If they were sble to do that, why would they gove is these special unevolving chu and vees in the first place, instead of allowing the partner feom those ganes gigantimax?
 
The whole Breath of the Wild map is a bit over 60 km², and there are fifteen regions in its Hyrule, so two regions is about 8 or 9 km² (somewhat over three square miles).

That is... not an insubstantial Wild Area.
Actually, the BoTW map is more like 170 km2 (from what I read) but that doesn't mean the average would be like that. As said above, different areas have different sizes, so you could have over 20 km2 or less than 5 km2. Even then, the Wild Area is big as heck.

It also could mean the total game size would be bigger than the town I live, with its 17.5 km2
 

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