Sword & Shield **Official news only** DLC Crown Tundra 22nd October

[Pikachu315111]

I've been thinking about something yesterday. Since they specifically say that you can Gigantamax Pokémon you get from Raids, I'd say soft reset is kinda gone. Then how would things work? Well, I'd take Fire Emblem Heroes as an example. What we call IVs there is actually Nature in Pokémon. The heroes grow differently but at the top level, all heroes of the same "species" with the same IVs end up with the same final stats but in the middle, they have different ones. What if they do that? We don't have different IVs anymore, only different growth rates?

It probably won't be IVs that determine which Pokemon can Gigantamax but a unique encryption constant. "What's an encryption constant?" you may be asking. Something introduced in Gen VI, it's pretty much a replacement mechanic for some mechanics that relied on the Personality Value to determine stuff: a Pokemon's Characteristic, Spinda's Spots, and Wurmple's Evolution. All now have their own formula and I'd imagine the same would be for what Pokemon can Gigantamax.

 

[Prof. Almeida]

It probably won't be IVs that determine which Pokemon can Gigantamax but a unique encryption constant. "What's an encryption constant?" you may be asking. Something introduced in Gen VI, it's pretty much a replacement mechanic for some mechanics that relied on the Personality Value to determine stuff: a Pokemon's Characteristic, Spinda's Spots, and Wurmple's Evolution. All now have their own formula and I'd imagine the same would be for what Pokemon can Gigantamax.

I'm thinking about breeding, actually. If they don't eliminate IVs, then they're again pro hack, not pro competitive.

 

[Worldie]

I'm thinking about breeding, actually. If they don't eliminate IVs, then they're again pro hack, not pro competitive.

Considering they still haven't got rid of the "only one of each legendary per save file" issue, I don't think they have quite yet understood what is causing people to need to hack for competitive gameplay.
You can also see how the Mew in Let's Go for example wasn't even softresettable, you were forced into whatever you got first.

Sorry but I have no hope that Gigamax-able pokemon will have anything special other than maybe the force 3x31 IV and (hopefully) something akin to the Syncronize NPC of Let's Go.

(This reminds me, the only Syncronizer so far confirmed is Ralts line iirc...)

 

[Ironmage]

At least Ralts' other ability is trace, so you know whether it has Sync when you encounter it. Stupid Inner focus Abras...

 

[Gladio]

At least Ralts' other ability is trace, so you know whether it has Sync when you encounter it. Stupid Inner focus Abras...

Not only that, but both final evolutions have access to Thunder Wave / Hypnosis and Gallade makes for a very efficient catcher thanks to False Swipe (and no, the fact that they're in the slow experience group and that you'd need a dozen Dawn Stones doesn't matter. Not a single bit).

 

[Sirya]

Yes and no. Sure, you may have an initial gameplan of what Pokemon you're going to Dynamax, but you aren't locked into that plan. Let's say I build a team around sweeping with Dynamax Volcarona. If I get to team preview and see that Volcarona isn't going to do shit to my opponent even if it Dynamaxes, but one of my other Pokemon would go ham on my opponent if it Dynamaxed, I'm not screwed because I chose Volcarona as my designated Dynamaxer. I simply Dynamax that other Pokemon.

Where things get weird is with Gigantamaxing. Because these Pokemon get a disproportionally higher boost than other Pokemon, packing a Pokemon that's only really useful if it Gigantamaxes (as I suspect will be the case for the cream) will make you more pressured to use your Max on that Pokemon.

This is a yes and no, too.

I would say that generally, an item is about the 50% of the mon itself in terms of functionality. Your team can be a little bit flexible, i've stated that earlier, and I will concede that Dynamax/Giantamax isn't as restricting as M-Evolution (altho the concept is lazy) because your "Mega" (Dyanamx mon) isn't useless from the start due to team mu.

But! We've to take into account real scenarios that are going to limite you anyway. If you are running a team with Giantamax (name of the turtle), maybe you don't have a SR setter. Yes, you could have one, but if the point of your team is not having one because entry hazards depend on your G-Move, that team will not have SR support if, let's say, the MU isn't in your favor and as a result you decide to G-max any other Pokémon. The same can be said about Gmax-Corviknight if you don't have any kind of cleaner and depend on G-max rapid spin-defog.

If your Mega can't do anything of note, you are essentially Mega-less. If your initial plan for Dynamaxing can't do anything of note... you Dynamax something else.

This is what I don't agree with. It's not that simple. Your QD Volcarona will not do greater if you Dynamax it instead of just letting him QD + attack. Because QD, along with any other statup move will be reemplazed with the generic D-Max move of that type. If this is not how it works, tell me. If it is, the Pokémon that can go freestyle about Dynamax are very limited too in a real scenario.

 

[Worldie]

But! We've to take into account real scenarios that are going to limite you anyway. If you are running a team with Giantamax (name of the turtle), maybe you don't have a SR setter. Yes, you could have one, but if the point of your team is not having one because entry hazards depend on your G-Move, that team will not have SR support if, let's say, the MU isn't in your favor and as a result you decide to G-max any other Pokémon. The same can be said about Gmax-Corviknight if you don't have any kind of cleaner and depend on G-max rapid spin-defog.

If your teambuilding relies on an attack that's usable only for 3 turns in the best scenario and realistically in only 1 or 2, your teambuilding is pretty awful to begin with.

The extra effects of Gigamax moves is added bonus, shouldn't be the core of your team.

This is what I don't agree with. It's not that simple. Your QD Volcarona will not do greater if you Dynamax it instead of just letting him QD + attack. Because QD, along with any other statup move will be reemplazed with the generic D-Max move of that type. If this is not how it works, tell me. If it is, the Pokémon that can go freestyle about Dynamax are very limited too in a real scenario.

Status moves all become Max Guard when Dyna/Gigamaxing. Quiver Dance would become Max Guard as well. You're not going to setup while Dynamaxed, you have to do it before doing it.
(That said, 5 specific D-moves do increase a single stat when used)

 

[Sirya]

If your teambuilding relies on an attack that's usable only for 3 turns in the best scenario and realistically in only 1 or 2, your teambuilding is pretty awful to begin with.

The extra effects of Gigamax moves is added bonus, shouldn't be the core of your team.


Status moves all become Max Guard when Dyna/Gigamaxing. Quiver Dance would become Max Guard as well. You're not going to setup while Dynamaxed, you have to do it before doing it.
(That said, 5 specific D-moves do increase a single stat when used)

Teambuilding has relied in so many shenanigans to take the upper hand that teambuilding around a move with those properties isn't awful in the slightless and I can't see it happening depending on the mon stats, typing, ability and effects of the moves themselves. You are not going to take a Gigamax in your team if that Pokémon is just and extra, to keep it in there because it can offer superior efficiency in most scenarios, and that's the main reason why you keep him.

In the other hand, if D-Max QD transforms into Max Guard, that Volcarona isn't going anywhere with a random D-Max. We are just hard-theorymoning here, but it's an example of how dynamaxing any Pokémon on the go is not always a great idea and can be detrimental.

 

[Siggu]

Teambuilding has relied in so many shenanigans to take the upper hand that teambuilding around a move with those properties isn't awful in the slightless and I can't see it happening depending on the mon stats, typing, ability and effects of the moves themselves. You are not going to take a Gigamax in your team if that Pokémon is just and extra, to keep it in there because it can offer superior efficiency in most scenarios, and that's the main reason why you keep him.

In the other hand, if D-Max QD transforms into Max Guard, that Volcarona isn't going anywhere with a random D-Max. We are just hard-theorymoning here, but it's an example of how dynamaxing any Pokémon on the go is not always a great idea and can be detrimental.

You could Quiver Dance first, and then Dynamax. But yeah, at this point is just theorymoning.

 

[Worldie]

Teambuilding has relied in so many shenanigans to take the upper hand that teambuilding around a move with those properties isn't awful in the slightless and I can't see it happening depending on the mon stats, typing, ability and effects of the moves themselves. You are not going to take a Gigamax in your team if that Pokémon is just and extra, to keep it in there because it can offer superior efficiency in most scenarios, and that's the main reason why you keep him.

In the other hand, if D-Max QD transforms into Max Guard, that Volcarona isn't going anywhere with a random D-Max. We are just hard-theorymoning here, but it's an example of how dynamaxing any Pokémon on the go is not always a great idea and can be detrimental.

Yes, but teambuilding has usually relied on something that isn't only usable once.

Gygamax move effects (at least, the ones presented so far) do not like something you would teambuild around, rather something that would give a extra oompf to the team.

So far the Giga-effects are
Corviknight: Defog / break terrain on top of Flying damage
Dreadnaw: Stealth Rock on top of Water damage
Cake: Heal (for entire side in case of doubles) on top of Fairy damage

While it's neat effects on top of the stat boosts, it's not something you'd teambuild around.

You're not going to teambuild with your only stealthrocker/defogger able to only perform it for only 3 times in the match in the very best scenario. Rather you'd build around the idea that "even if my main defogger/rocker dies, I have this as backup option", or "I get the chance to get extra chip damage if I end in the position to use this, but I don't need this to win".

The fairy heal if anything offers a interesting option for the "setup first, G-max after" as it'd allow to heal chip damage after having used a Calm Mind for example, one of the scenarios I presented some posts ago.

Unless the other Giga-specific effects are massively more impactful than those, you'd not teambuild around those as your only way to perform what they do, and while you could definitely include a trash mon specifically because its Giga-form is particularly impactful, that'd be a exception more than the rule.

(For comparison, it's why Stick Web or non-rain archetypes have been difficult to pull off consistenly in higher tiers, because the setters are so much awful compared to the rest of the pokemon in the tier that being *guaranteed* to pull the Webs up more than once before they get KOd is impossible and you need other plans)

 

[Ironmage]

As somebody who takes the specialized route over more power basically every time, I'm going to throw some examples around for when a few turns is enough for a dedicated mon. Firstly, we have suicide leads. Their entire point is to set things early and then be done. I could easily see lead G-Dredmaw that sets rocks, sets sand, does something else on turn 3, then Explodes (provided good sand abusers exist, of course).

Secondly, we have Dugtrio. It can't live a hit, nor can it naturally OHKO some of the things it wants to, so it generally runs either sash or Z, both one-shot items. Against offense, its basically only useful once (against defense, it can at least substitute). But 'I came, I saw, I Took out Pdon' is enough of a niche for Dugtrio to have non-zero Ubers use. Not directly related to Maxing (though I now imagine Maxed Eviolite Trapinch for some reason), but it's still a teamslot (and frequently Z as well) dedicated to a one-off.

 

[Worldie]

As somebody who takes the specialized route over more power basically every time, I'm going to throw some examples around for when a few turns is enough for a dedicated mon. Firstly, we have suicide leads. Their entire point is to set things early and then be done. I could easily see lead G-Dredmaw that sets rocks, sets sand, does something else on turn 3, then Explodes (provided good sand abusers exist, of course).

Secondly, we have Dugtrio. It can't live a hit, nor can it naturally OHKO some of the things it wants to, so it generally runs either sash or Z, both one-shot items. Against offense, its basically only useful once (against defense, it can at least substitute). But 'I came, I saw, I Took out Pdon' is enough of a niche for Dugtrio to have non-zero Ubers use. Not directly related to Maxing (though I now imagine Maxed Eviolite Trapinch for some reason), but it's still a teamslot (and frequently Z as well) dedicated to a one-off.

Definitely, but they aren't the only "wincon" of the compositions.

My argument is that you don't build your team around "if Dugtrio can't 1hko enemy Groudon or enemy doesn't have Groudon I lose".
You don't have a suicide lead that loses you the match if the Stealth Rock it just set gets removed the turn after.

Those are jobs that they do once in the game, and help you secure the victory, but aren't the only wincon of the match.

A more accurate example is: "I include Dugtrio in my team, because it can eliminate a threat. If i get to do that, makes winning easier. If there's no threat it can eliminate, I can safely sacrifice him to get more damage off".
G-max works the same, you can have your Dreadnaw in the position to set Stealth Rock for you, but shouldn't be in the position where if enemy has a single water absorb you istantly lose. Rather, in that situation, you are freely able to use your Dynamax on something else and have dreadnaw just do some damage, maybe set Stealth Rock with a different Pokemon.
In similar fashion, I doubt you'd run Corviknight as your only Defog option, rather, you appreciate that he can come in and defog on top of doing damage, but if enemy isn't running entry hazard or your Tornadus (or whatever) can Defog safely, you are as well safe to Dynamax something else.

I think you get my jist.

The current Gigamax moves are strong, but don't quite look "meta defining" to the point that you'd have them as dedicated wincons.

 

[Rapti]

It probably won't be IVs that determine which Pokemon can Gigantamax but a unique encryption constant. "What's an encryption constant?" you may be asking. Something introduced in Gen VI, it's pretty much a replacement mechanic for some mechanics that relied on the Personality Value to determine stuff: a Pokemon's Characteristic, Spinda's Spots, and Wurmple's Evolution. All now have their own formula and I'd imagine the same would be for what Pokemon can Gigantamax.

Basically it'll be an event flag, like the fateful encounter one

watch it be in the form of a Ribbon you can only get from raids

 

[Ironmage]

The other thing to note with having a generalist vs specialized Maxer that there are several good moves that don't work well with it. Priority, Scald, Acrobatics, half of the Dark moves in existence, recovery, setup, hazards, pivoting. Again, this might be my compulsion to specialize, but I doubt you'd frequently have more than two or three members of your team that would even appreciate Maxing. So while I could see having both an intended Maxer and a backup, I don't think having it be a fully flexible mechanic is realistic.

 

[AquaticPanic]

I got this feom a facebook post and thought it would be interesting to share:

Over in Japan, they have what is known as the "Goroawase (wordplay) Number". The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 each have multiple ways to say them. For example, 5 can be pronounced "Go", "Ko", or "Itsu". This allows the Japanese language to associate numerical combinations with multiple meanings.

Take a look at the numbers listed on each of the Gym leaders shown in Sword & Shield so far.

- Milo, the grass gym leader, has the number 831 on his shorts, which in Japanese is code for "yasai", meaning "vegetables."

- Nessa, the water type gym leader, has the number 049 on her shorts, which is code for "oyogu", meaning "to swim."

- Bea, the fighting type gym leader, has the number 193 on her shorts, which is code for "ikusa", meaning "fight."

- Allister, the Ghost type gym leader, has the number 291 on his shorts, which is code for "nikui", meaning "hateful."

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

The other thing to note with having a generalist vs specialized Maxer that there are several good moves that don't work well with it. Priority, Scald, Acrobatics, half of the Dark moves in existence, recovery, setup, hazards, pivoting. Again, this might be my compulsion to specialize, but I doubt you'd frequently have more than two or three members of your team that would even appreciate Maxing. So while I could see having both an intended Maxer and a backup, I don't think having it be a fully flexible mechanic is realistic.

You raised some really shoddy points, like relying on suicide lead G-Dred as your SR setter, but this one is worth debating.

Losing potential setup moves isn't as troublesome as it seems because you can always set-up and then D-Max to make use of the stronger moves and added bulk with whatever setup you used.

On the other hand, the loss of secondary effects on moves like Scald hurt, sure, but stuff like Close Combat and Flare Blitz actually benefit from it.

The way I see it, D-Max is pretty versatile since you can pick who's going to D-Max anytime, but obviously some options will be better than others (G-Max being an obvious example) and offensive teams actually benefit from that versatility more.

 

[Worldie]

The way I see it, D-Max is pretty versatile since you can pick who's going to D-Max anytime, but obviously some options will be better than others (G-Max being an obvious example) and offensive teams actually benefit from that versatility more.

Pretty much the point I wanted to make.

I didn't want to say "hey, in your team you will have 6 strong Dinamax options!"

My point was that while your *main* plan could be to use a specific Dynamax/Gigamax, the nature of the mechanic lets you be adaptable, and you might easily end up in situations where rather than Dynamax your Corviknight, maybe Dynamaxing your Volcarona who managed to get a quiverdance off can set you up for a sweep, or dynamaxing your Greninja will allow you to set a terrain / weather to stop the opposing sand team, etc.

There's a lot of possibilities / versatility, and the current Gigamax moves revealed don't magically scream "oi, this is SO broken i can use this as wincondition".

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I'm really curious about whether G-Max have potential stat boosts. Abilities don't change and while the G-Max moves are cool, I'm not sure they're worth making a new mechanic for.

 

[Worldie]

I'm really curious about whether G-Max have potential stat boosts. Abilities don't change and while the G-Max moves are cool, I'm not sure they're worth making a new mechanic for.

I think we all are.

Though right now, we know Gigamax cakemon specifically says that it can tank phisical hits so we're kinda assuming it does get a defense boost on top of the 50% hp.
(that is, unless cakemon already has very high defense on its own and that's just flavour text)

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I think we all are.

Though right now, we know Gigamax cakemon specifically says that it can tank phisical hits so we're kinda assuming it does get a defense boost on top of the 50% hp.
(that is, unless cakemon already has very high defense on its own and that's just flavour text)

Not to mention that flavor texts are joke material anyway. I'm not reposting the Escavalier dex entry, but you get the idea.

 

[Worldie]

Not to mention that flavor texts are joke material anyway. I'm not reposting the Escavalier dex entry, but you get the idea.

Normally I would agree with you (expecially as far as Speed goes, they have very... questionable entries), however, I don't recall any case in which they ever mentioned "phisical" or "special" when it comes to pokemon, which makes me more confident in it actually being a real case.

That said, they don't quite let me understand if it's only the *gigamax* version that has high defense, or the pokemon has high defense by default and simply the +50% hp from dynamax mechanic makes it even bulkier combined with the self heal G-move.

 

[Rarycaris]

Something I haven't seen commented on... if Gigantamax is raids-exclusive, that pretty much confirms that no legendaries will get it, right?

 

[Worldie]

Something I haven't seen commented on... if Gigantamax is raids-exclusive, that pretty much confirms that no legendaries will get it, right?

Well nothing is excluding that the 2 legendaries (+ whatever Tapu or similar we get) isnt caught a raid tecnically.

 

[viol and bass]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but do Dynamax/Gigantamax reset upon switching out?

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'm thinking about breeding, actually. If they don't eliminate IVs, then they're again pro hack, not pro competitive.

Sadly I think too many mechanics are connected with IVs you can't exactly get rid of it without having to scrap a whole batch of other stuff (then again that could be some bloat many players would like to see cut).

That said they could at the very least make IVs easier to deal with. I can list a few ideas but that starts to fall into wishlisting so I'll just say the basic once: There's no Level requirement for Hyper Training aside having Bottle Caps. Speaking of which, either make getting Gold & Silver Bottled Caps easier or introduce six "lesser" Bottle Caps (one for each stat) which are much easier to get. Also give the choice to make a stat either 31 or 0. Also introduce a "Nature Actor" who will take Bottle Caps to "change" your Pokemon's Nature (justified as the actor training your Pokemon to act a certain way in battle). And [CENSORED] Fine, I'll move on...

Considering they still haven't got rid of the "only one of each legendary per save file" issue, I don't think they have quite yet understood what is causing people to need to hack for competitive gameplay.
You can also see how the Mew in Let's Go for example wasn't even softresettable, you were forced into whatever you got first.

Sorry but I have no hope that Gigamax-able pokemon will have anything special other than maybe the force 3x31 IV and (hopefully) something akin to the Syncronize NPC of Let's Go.

(This reminds me, the only Syncronizer so far confirmed is Ralts line iirc...)

Legendaries' & Mythicals' IVs should just be all 31 (at least for the stats which matter for it) anyway. They should be "battle-ready" as soon as you get them. At most they only need (aside from leveling them up if they need that) a quick trip to the Hyper Training to adjust a thing here and there.

Not sure about the Gigamax-able Pokemon. I would be surprised if they even got the 3x31 IV (only reason Baby Pokemon got it was via a quirk in the programming as the 3x31 IV was applied to Pokemon in the "Undiscovered Group" (plus Manaphy)).

If our suspicion that all the Gen I Pokemon are in then we also have Abra as a Synchronizer. Only other missing (not counting Umbreon and Espeon) is Natu family, Munna family, and Elgyem family. Maybe they should think about spreading Synchronize out a bit more to both new and old Pokemon. But with that said, it has made me realize if someone has a specific set of Synchronizers (like for me it's Ralts) then the limited dex could one generation result them in them having to breed a whole new batch of Synchronizers. Makes me wonder if this is maybe why they introduced "Madam Celadon" and will have a similar character in Sword & Shield.

Watch it be in the form of a Ribbon you can only get from raids

At least it'll come with a pretty ribbon, that's nice.

Over in Japan, they have what is known as the "Goroawase (wordplay) Number". The numbers 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 each have multiple ways to say them. For example, 5 can be pronounced "Go", "Ko", or "Itsu". This allows the Japanese language to associate numerical combinations with multiple meanings.

Which means the Japanese would probably have a lot more fun picking their uniform number. :P

Anyway I found a Goroawase generator (or a site that leads to one) if anyone wants to try it. It's not perfect, like I typed the Gym Leaders numbers in and it only got one vaguely right. Also looks like there's no option to put in a word for it to generate a number for. However for non-native Japanese speakers (use Google translate) its better then nothing. Anyway, might as well see what they have for "315"... "Last".

Something I haven't seen commented on... if Gigantamax is raids-exclusive, that pretty much confirms that no legendaries will get it, right?

Also is it confirmed it's just Raid Pokemon only? And even if it is, Legendaries are usually exempted if they want to have them be.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but do Dynamax/Gigantamax reset upon switching out?

Not a stupid question, though at the same time we also don't know.

I actually think they would disable Dynamax/Gigantamax Pokemon from being switched out until it runs out. That way they don't have to worry about working out whether the Pokemon loses it when switched out or its put on pause. Would make what time and Pokemon you choose have more weight to it as the opponent may send out a strong counter.

Also another thought we don't know the question to: how would Dynamax/Gigantamax work in Double Battles? Raid Battles don't really count since its four trainers using a Pokemon each and one gets to Dynamax/Gigantamax. Would they just make it so Dynamax/Gigantamax are single battle only as that would be the easiest thing to do. Or maybe the partner Pokemon is temporarily removed from battle as its Dynamax/Gigantamax partner wreaks havoc and once done is sent back out again (or another Pokemon of the trainer's choosing).