Pokemon Sword & Shield Discussion RD: 15/11/2019

Ya know, I actually kinda like the fact that we can't use Pokemon not in the Galgar dex. Now while playing through the main story like I always do, use my favorites, not giving a care in the world about the national dex, I would play gen 8 OU and Ubers on PS like no tomorrow. Because Lot's of mons I had to worry about before are gone. So it's simpler, thanks to less mons to worry about. However when playing through the story, I act like the national dex never exists. I never gave a care in the world about National dexs in general honestly. I just like to use my favorites in casual runs, not mons from other regions. Overall, It'd make my competive life less hectic, and I just don't care about the national dex, no, the whole pokedex thing as a whole. The thing I like about Pokemon is the designs, battles, and story.
 
While I'm not exactly pleased with Gamefreak removing Pokemon in SW / SH, I can see the logistics behind it (aside from Masuda's questionable statement about getting the games to us earlier).

Pokemon, in my opinion, has always been handled fairly inefficiently by Gamefreak. Every generation, Gamefreak has constantly been adding at least a hundred new mons / character models with dozens of new moves, items, abilities, etc to coincide with it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that optimizing all of these mons for every new generation is a lot of work. On top of making sure every mon is well adjusted and and working in the game (with slight updates to textures and other features), you have to create a valid learnset, valid Pokedex entry (until SM), valid TM set, and valid egg move set. For 1 mon, this isn't a lot, but for 900 mons its an insane undertaking to say the least. Add on the fact that Gamefreak isn't full of the best coders in the world, and its pretty apparent why this is a problem. On top of this, if a Pokemon has a different form, items like Blue Orb, Red Orb, DNA Splicers, etc. have to be in EVERY single game, which is unfeasible to implement long-term.

I'm not saying Gamefreak is completely innocent here, since the current state of the demo, though possessing decent effects and animations for trainers and environments (especially compared to Sun and Moon) , still has a lot of rough edges, like janky framerate and bad draw distances for certain objects / characters. Nonetheless, the removal of Pokemon could be beneficial in other ways.

1) Competitively, this can benefit the metagame by stimulating player creativity. Currently, due to how bloated the roster of Pokemon is, many players rely on "blanket checks" like Aegislash, Landorus-Therian, etc. to check or counter the widest array of Pokemon, at least at low-level play. This leads to these mons being a major crutch in teambuilding and consequently makes teambuilding more boring (at low-level play specifically). A lower roster of Pokemon will certainly add variety to competitive play by greatly warping the threatlist and could very well increase variety by shifting the game's threatlist.
2) Assuming that Gamefreak makes the game a "live service" and adds around 10 different evolutionary lines per month back into the game, they could renew and stimulate player's interest in the metagame, especially as "Shiny new toy syndrome" has more appeal than more nuanced metagame changes.
3) Again, assuming that the game becomes a "live-service" Gamefreak could also make these added Pokemon appealing when they do arrive. For example, they could make Pokemon additional raid battle in the overworld and catchable in the wild, is addition to having more update movesets / animations. This is admittingly wishful thinking based on past events.

These are just a few potential benefits, though how players see them will no doubt vary from person to person. Additionally, while it would be interesting to see gamefreak implement a "live-service" type deal in Pokemon, they likely won't do it on the sole basis that its easier to hand out pre-programmed event mons as bonuses rather than making changes to the core game itself.

Regardless of my own thoughts on the matter, I do believe that the backlash from the community is sizable enough that Gamefreak will either delay the game or make a more appropriate community update detailing when old Pokemon will be added back to the game. The huge number of dislikes in the recent trailers and twitter post / youtube comments demanding old Pokemon back should be indicative of this. It'd be easier to just make a community update, but I'm hoping they delay the game in order to brush up the framerate / low-draw distances and improve the game's graphical fidelity.
 
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You know what Magcargo... Yeah, you're right. It'd be very hectic for game freak to make it to where over 900 mons are usable. Think of it people: If Game Freak spent their time to make mons from other gens possible to bring into SS, do you know how much longer it'd be before gen 8 comes out? We'd most likely never even see the trailer until 2 years from now. So Game Freak is saving a lot of time that could be used for other games.
And he's right on the fact that if most of the useable mons are new ones, it could make competitive mons more varied and fun. Because to be honest here, I'm tired of seeing the same viable Pokemon all the time.
Lastly, the national dex is just a bunch of boring stuff anyways. "Oh look,Rattata! And Chikorita! Oh and Starly too!" Like seriously. It's so boring just wasting 30 whole minutes on looking at Pokemon! Ugh, no wonder people are taking a vendetta on the Pokemon fanbase these days. THEY'RE BRATS!!! If they don't get things the way they want to, they whine! And they always want to complain on how DP didn't get remakes, yet DP is one of the most hated gens ever! Like seriously. And gen 8 isn't free from this either. All you people want to do is whine, because the national dex isn't available! It's boring anyways! Get over it!
Yes, I do have anger issues.
 
Some mons potentially not making it this gen is definitely a blow to my enthusiasm. Was definitely looking forward to dynamaxed Marshadow on a post-Home mono-ghost run, but I doubt mythicals not named Mew are going to be making it into regional dex. :mehowth: I guess the only hope now is that either they do eventually partly reverse course and add mons back in slowly through patches or that there's some kind of battle spot-esque capabilities through Home.

I'm enjoying all the Thanos memes, at least. :P
 
While I'm not exactly pleased with Gamefreak removing Pokemon in SW / SH, I can see the logistics behind it (aside from Masuda's questionable statement about getting the games to us earlier).

Pokemon, in my opinion, has always been handled fairly inefficiently by Gamefreak. Every generation, Gamefreak has constantly been adding at least a hundred new mons / character models with dozens of new moves, items, abilities, etc to coincide with it. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that optimizing all of these mons for every new generation is a lot of work. On top of making sure every mon is well adjusted and and working in the game (with slight updates to textures and other features), you have to create a valid learnset, valid Pokedex entry (until SM), valid TM set, and valid egg move set. For 1 mon, this isn't a lot, but for 900 mons its an insane undertaking to say the least. Add on the fact that Gamefreak isn't full of the best coders in the world, and its pretty apparent why this is a problem. On top of this, if a Pokemon has a different form, items like Blue Orb, Red Orb, DNA Splicers, etc. have to be in EVERY single game, which is unfeasible to implement long-term.

I'm not saying Gamefreak is completely innocent here, since the current state of the demo, though possessing decent effects and animations for trainers and environments (especially compared to Sun and Moon) , still has a lot of rough edges, like janky framerate and bad draw distances for certain objects / characters. Nonetheless, the removal of Pokemon could be beneficial in other ways.

1) Competitively, this can benefit the metagame by stimulating player creativity. Currently, due to how bloated the roster of Pokemon is, many players rely on "blanket checks" like Aegislash, Landorus-Therian, etc. to check or counter the widest array of Pokemon, at least at low-level play. This leads to these mons being a major crutch in teambuilding and consequently makes teambuilding more boring (at low-level play specifically). A lower roster of Pokemon will certainly add variety to competitive play by greatly warping the threatlist and could very well increase variety by shifting the game's threatlist.
2) Assuming that Gamefreak makes the game a "live service" and adds around 10 different evolutionary lines per month back into the game, they could renew and stimulate player's interest in the metagame, especially as "Shiny new toy syndrome" has more appeal than more nuanced metagame changes.
3) Again, assuming that the game becomes a "live-service" Gamefreak could also make these added Pokemon appealing when they do arrive. For example, they could make Pokemon additional raid battle in the overworld and catchable in the wild, is addition to having more update movesets / animations. This is admittingly wishful thinking based on past events.

These are just a few potential benefits, though how players see them will no doubt vary from person to person. Additionally, while it would be interesting to see gamefreak implement a "live-service" type deal in Pokemon, they likely won't do it on the sole basis that its easier to hand out pre-programmed event mons as bonuses rather than making changes to the core game itself.

Regardless of my own thoughts on the matter, I do believe that the backlash from the community is sizable enough that Gamefreak will either delay the game or make a more appropriate community update detailing when old Pokemon will be added back to the game. The huge number of dislikes in the recent trailers and twitter post / youtube comments demanding old Pokemon back should be indicative of this. It'd be easier to just make a community update, but I'm hoping they delay the game in order to brush up the framerate / low-draw distances and improve the game's graphical fidelity.
I'm not sure GF would listen to the fandom. They seem to focus on what they think is best for the series, not what fans want. Like the Wild Zone, its not desire for an open world Pokemon game from the fan that drives the idea. Its more like appealing to the Go fans who are playing after getting into the series via Go.

Cut Copy and Paste from my Bulbagarden Account:

If I had to be a Devil's advocate for cutting Pokemon, its because Pokemon suffers from the issue of content pile-up. They have to create a bunch of items for the sake of certain Pokemon, for example; stuff like DNA Splicers for Kyurem, Nectar for Oricirio, and the Griseous Orb for Giratina. That's a lot of programming to do. As long as there's a good variety of each Pokemon from each region, I'll be fine; though I have to admit doing this change on the Switch was a bad idea because we've seen with BOTW on how strong the system is. It should have been done on 3DS because its a lot weaker, making it more justifiable.

As for releasing Pokemon via DLC don't count on it. This article here states that monetizing Pokemon would " ruin " the Pokemon World. That being said, they didn't say no for DLC for new areas and facillities, so maybe those could recieve DLC.
 
Well... this already killed my excitement. Firstly, don't anyone in GF realise that this is undermining Switch's capability and slapping Nintendo's face, as if Switch can't handle the whole PokeDex when XY could handle like +700? Sun/Moon can be exempted (outside of plain laziness / rushing), as I realised when I go to GTS, they still record that you have gotten this Pokemon despite being unavailable in RotomDex (thus selectable in GTS) and RotomDex just lacked the ability to have an entry of said Pokemon. But removing it from entirety? Man, insert some Galexit joke here.
And now that it's this way, let's hope that they don't pull a "Bellosom in Alola" again with the british-inspired 'mon like Lillipup line etc.

All I know is that it doesn't even take a genius to know the fanbase is now split and exploded over this limitation. I'll check other sites to see the reactions later.

No, I don't care about broken mon like Landorus, Tapus, etc. and I'm in line with the people calling out those who complained they can't bring over their Lando. But I had wished to be able to see and unite my favourites like several starters, vees (they very likely return unless GF want to risk backlash), psychics, etc.. Well, the good news is that I may be able to skip over this and just relax then. I was thinking to prepare my X and USun to make live PokeDex, but I can skip that now....

Uh... Yamper doesn't strike as fancy to me. It's a fat short Eevee with round ruff, smaller ears, more colours, and small tail. Maybe I'll change my mind later though, as there's no proper artwork yet and I hope the colours don't clash. And so Impidimp.


I think I'll sit and watch some other explanations on this dangerous decision GF just took....
 
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Deck Knight

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When I first heard if this I was pretty surprised because it seemed counterintuitive to the whole point of Pokemon Home and its connectivity to every franchise.

That said, while I understand why people are upset I think the change is ultimately for the best. Consider that entire sections of our own Smogon are so bored with standard mons that we have a whole section for OMs.

And to that point, simulator play means we can have Gen 8 OU and Gen 8 "Unlimited" co-exist simultaneously. If there is interest in usage tiers beneath each of those, I assure you our community will express it. I think Game Freak knows this. They could have shut down simulator play a decade ago if they wanted to. They have not. They know at least enough that sites like Smogon sustain long term interest in their product.

Do I wish all Pokemon were available from the start to be transferred into Gen 8? Of course. But I also think that when you have so much power creep each and every gen (especially with Megas, Z-Moves, and the new Dynamax mechanic), using the main series to reboot is a worthwhile idea.
 
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This is the part where I produce an overanalysis with my thoughts on all of the new reveals. So to start, the raid battles...

Oh, who am I kidding. I play this game for two reasons: I like my weirdos, and I like to make crazy (more 'you have to be crazy to do this' than 'crazy OP') combinations. It's going to take the kind of overhaul that leaves us all wondering if it's even pokemon anymore to get me in on this when it's in the negative hundreds of interesting designs compared to previous entries.
 
See? This is exactly what I mean! All you people do is whine, just because you don't get things your way! Don't you people understand that whining won't solve anything? I swear. Now, just being like "I don't particularly like that idea" is fine. But you folks are like "Oh they don't have the national dex, so uhh I'm not buying SS!" Come on. That's just being a brat! You just want things to be perfect. Well nobody is perfect! Oh, the national dex, filled with a bunch of boring mons! And boring data too! HOW EXCITING :psyangry:!! Look, you don't always get what you want in life. You all have waited for gen 8, and what do you because of just one tiny feat missing? Whine of course! Why in fact, I Herby declare Pokemon is no longer my favorite series, because all you people do is whine!
Edit: Look, I don't have problems with people not liking a feature. It's when they whine about it. And I'll give you people credit for not reacting super bratty when I give a tantrum like this. Yes, I am aware I'm most likely getting 2 points for calling you brats and caps abuse. But hey, my fault for acting like you all were crash dummies!
Edit #2: I actually feel kinda bad for you all. I just made an entire page on a popular thread dedicated to combating that complaint. I do get aggressive, but I can't imagine how one common complaint me into the kind of furious madman I have been. Please forgive me staff, I promise it won't happen again.
 
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Playing SwSh is gonna feel like playing LGPE where you can only use regional Pokémon and no Megas or Z-moves. I think it's a very bad decision to impose these restrictions which I believe is only going to result in less diversity and more staleness. I really hope Smogon is gonna allow all Pokémon to be used in gen 8 still, if possible, and not give a damn about the in-game restrictions.
 
See? This is exactly what I mean! All you people do is whine, just because you don't get things your way! Don't you people understand that whining won't solve anything? I swear. Now, just being like "I don't particularly like that idea" is fine. But you folks are like "Oh they don't have the national dex, so uhh I'm not buying SS!" Come on. That's just being a brat! You just want things to be perfect. Well nobody is perfect! Oh, the national dex, filled with a bunch of boring mons! And boring data too! HOW EXCITING :psyangry:!! Look, you don't always get what you want in life. You all have waited for gen 8, and what do you because of just one tiny feat missing? Whine of course! Why in fact, I Herby declare Pokemon is no longer my favorite series, because all you people do is whine!
Edit: Look, I don't have problems with people not liking a feature. It's when they whine about it.
One tiny feat? Pokémon's motto has always been about collecting every single Pokémon. All of them are unique and allow for a ton of creativity when it comes to approaching the Pokémon games as a whole. Cutting down on Pokémon goes against the entire spirit and is definitely deserving of criticism when it comes from a multibillion dollar company.

Ironically the most pointless 'whining' in this thread comes from you whining about other people's criticism.
 
Lastly, the national dex is just a bunch of boring stuff anyways.
Uh, I'm really sorry, but as an artist who uses a lot of references when drawing, I was at first pissed that RotomDex was not going to show me something else outside Alola, especially that iirc it has an upgrade of letting you view a mon's action animation (in different angle too) which wasn't there in XYORAS's PokeDex. I do like the PokeDex for the lores too and sometimes read them be it in my cart, PokeGO, Bulbapedia peeking while I'm browsing something, etc., so I find this statement offensive, or at least just an opinion.

And yes, I sincerely hope this is sarcastic.
 
You don't get it. People are saying "OK, if I can't get mons not in the Galar dex, then I'm not buying it/ or that one even worse reaction " I quit Pokemon as a whole"thing.

And I'm never sarcastic and mad at the same time, unless I yell "how exciting!" When I clearly find it bad/boring.
 
You don't get it. People are saying "OK, if I can't get mons not in the Galar dex, then I'm not buying it/ or that one even worse reaction " I quit Pokemon as a whole"thing.
Not buying games because they don't match your expectations and don't offer what you're looking for is entirely valid. You shouldn't mindlessly buy games just because it's Pokémon. In that case they might as well start pumping out shit quality games because people will buy them anyways.
 
You don't get it. People are saying "OK, if I can't get mons not in the Galar dex, then I'm not buying it/ or that one even worse reaction " I quit Pokemon as a whole"thing.
Culling pokemon from a game is basically betraying the whole fucking schtick of the franchise and I have no idea how big a shill you gotta be not to think it's a big deal.
In that case they might as well start pumping out shit quality games because people will buy them anyways.
Ding ding ding! Game Freak has figured this out years ago.
I just hope Masuda will shut the fuck up from now on and let their PR do the damage control.

Anyway, I don't really like the Corgi. Both it and the Imp look like toys, not pokemon.
 
Ya know what? I don't buy something, solely for it being a franchise I like. However, I have to have so many reasons for me not to buy a game. I just need to stop being the Ghetsis of this thread, or I could get banned. But I'll admit,
Ok, some good(?) news
View attachment 179952

They do know the ammount of people who dislike this addition is HUGE. As if they will do anything about it, I don't know. Perhaps the superiors at Nintendo can put some order at GameFreak
Does make me happy. And I said I like Pokemon for the story, battles, and designs. Not because of catching Pokemon! If I decide not to care about "Gotta catch em all" then I don't. If anything, normally I have 15- Pokemon in the entire dex I caught, because reasons listed above.
 
I agree with mostly everyone that axing Pokemon kills a key part of what made Pokemon so popular in the first place, the possibility of "catching them all". It's more than just the dex entries and the bonus for completing the entire dex, it's that feeling of accomplishment at the end of a hard task. As the roster gets bigger, so does the achievement of completing the full dex. In my opinion Game Freak should release the game with just the Galar dex, and then roll out a few new evolution lines every month or so. They could maybe add new raid boss pokemon in these updates as well. These updates will hopefully keep interest in Sword and Shield alive for a long time. GF could possibly even use this period as breathing room to work on future Pokemon games. Pokemon is a awesome game, but if the developers kill one of the key foundations of the game, it'll be a huge hit to the franchise itself.
 

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