Pokemon Sword & Shield Discussion RD: 15/11/2019

As someone who finds.collecting as many different species of Mon as possible more important than battling, this naturally upsets me, but it doesn't ruin everything. I just hope this isn't permanent.

As I haven't discussed much else here, I guess I will give out more of my opinions.

I like most of the new Mon so far. Unfortunately, I agree with those not thrilled with the legends though.

Dynamaxing seems silly, but in a fun way and the three turn limit and secondary effects of max-moves are nice. As are max-raids. I wonder how sheer force interacts with max moves. Unfortunately, I like z-moves and still think megas were the best of all three. I want them back, and more of them. The craziness of all three on a team actually appeals to me, especially if it's used against me as a challenge. (Admittedly, Game Freak wouldn't challenge is that way).

As an explorer and collector, I like the wild area.

I'm ... I think that covers most things. (Also, mareep and wooloo are BOTH adorable)
 
One thing I would like to address is the sentiment going around that, as the Switch is more powerful than the 3DS it should be equally or more capable of managing more Pokemon.
The effect of the power of the console on the scope problem inherent to Pokemon does not work like that, it is in fact the opposite. As power is not that much of a factor but instead the amount of time and resources required to integrate a Pokemon into the game is. As the power of the console rises the standards for the presentation of the Pokemon does too and the scope problem becomes worse rather than improves.

Of course, this is more of general statement on the relation between scope and console power and how much of this applies to SwSh in particular depends on whether they actually added a bunch of stuff for the Pokemon that are included. Something about expressiveness was mentioned if I'm not mistaken, which presumable points to additional animations, but at this point it is all rather vague.
 
I think we are all ignoring the elephant in the room and the true cause of all of this; Masuda even said the problem was a lack of time

but who even demanded for yearly Pokemon releases?


Ok, poketubers did, but aside from them who did really? every input I seen on the games schedule was in fact hoping Gamefrak would take more time to make a better game, why is Gamefreak rushing things on?

yearly releases killed Yo-Kai Watch and even Assassin's Creed got complains from just about everyone because of it's yearly releases
 
I hope I'm not repeating what we knew, but....
https://www.polygon.com/e3/2019/6/11/18661587/pokemon-sword-shield-home-e3-2019-galar-pokedex-home-bank

According to Masuda, this is because of development time. This said, I recall it well that during USUM hype, they said the old staffs are already dealing with the gen8 game I'm dumb, forgot that's LGPE, although it's the basis for SwSh. And ever since the models were already polished, future-proofed as others said, I am still thinking how that would take time to import it to new game.

This site posits that all the mon available in LGPE might be available in Galar (that is, entirety of Gen1, why am I not surprised? Although then again it's because LGPE was just a testing ground for Pokemon in Switch....)

OK, now I'm trying to recap the releases in years, please correct me if I put something wrong:
2013: XY
2014: ORAS
2015: none (but spinoff PSMD was released)
2016: SuMn
2017: USUM
2018: LGPk/vee
2019: SwSh

I don't know... I thought last year during USUM hype, I and some other said we would rather they take their time and polish their games well rather than rushing it....
 
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Theorymon

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One thing I would like to address is the sentiment going around that, as the Switch is more powerful than the 3DS it should be equally or more capable of managing more Pokemon.
The effect of the power of the console on the scope problem inherent to Pokemon does not work like that, it is in fact the opposite. As power is not that much of a factor but instead the amount of time and resources required to integrate a Pokemon into the game is. As the power of the console rises the standards for the presentation of the Pokemon does too and the scope problem becomes worse rather than improves.

Of course, this is more of general statement on the relation between scope and console power and how much of this applies to SwSh in particular depends on whether they actually added a bunch of stuff for the Pokemon that are included. Something about expressiveness was mentioned if I'm not mistaken, which presumable points to additional animations, but at this point it is all rather vague.
I do think you have a point that even with the future proofing, if we get a big leap in say, a Switch 2 or 3, gamefreak will be expected to update things again at some point, and who knows if they can really handle that once we reach 1k Pokemon.

That being said, the way this news was dropped couldn't be any worse either!

I really think maybe they need to take the "Gran Turismo" approach, and maybe have legacy Pokemon that you can transfer, but is made clear that they wont be compatible with certain new things such as say, the new amie, new animations, and maybe even some competitive formats.

Or, maybe take an approach like DHR-107 was talking about on Discord, and have some sort of Stadium like "spin-off" that's at a lower fidelity, that lets you batle with everything, and supports Pokemon Home. That wouldn't satisfiy the people that want to go on a new "adventure", but it'd certainly be something at least!
 
I do think you have a point that even with the future proofing, if we get a big leap in say, a Switch 2 or 3, gamefreak will be expected to update things again at some point, and who knows if they can really handle that once we reach 1k Pokemon.

That being said, the way this news was dropped couldn't be any worse either!

I really think maybe they need to take the "Gran Turismo" approach, and maybe have legacy Pokemon that you can transfer, but is made clear that they wont be compatible with certain new things such as say, the new amie, new animations, and maybe even some competitive formats.

Or, maybe take an approach like DHR-107 was talking about on Discord, and have some sort of Stadium like "spin-off" that's at a lower fidelity, that lets you batle with everything, and supports Pokemon Home. That wouldn't satisfiy the people that want to go on a new "adventure", but it'd certainly be something at least!
I think they are absolutely daft for excluding Pokemon rather than limiting the scope of the updates for the "non chosen" Pokemon for SwSh. Mostly because of the incredibly predictable fallout we're currently experiencing, which was indeed made worse by the way this was "announced". They should have gotten their full PR machine on it rather than having Masuda try to awkwardly sneak it in.

I have also entertained the idea of spin-offs that are either amie like, or stadium like to placate the fans. But those would probably be almost as much work as just including the Pokemon normally, even at lower fidelity. Unless we're talking straight 3DS models and textures ports I guess.
 
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They should have gotten their full PR machine on it rather than having Masuda try to awkwardly sneak it in.
That has unfortunately been a major hole in Pokemon games PR: they've always let Matsuda do this stuff.
And anytime there was a questionable announcement to make... it went exactly like this.

Now, this time however it actually reached Nintendo, so aside from the shitstorm, I am very curious to see if that'll have consequences. I don't know how much freedom GameFreaks has when it comes to both merchandising and advertising the games, but the amount of negative comments / feedback every Nintendo channel is receiving right now is making Steam reviewbombing look nice and friendly.
 
I guess I might as well also throw in my opinion on the matter itself, rather than the way it was presented.

Despite having bred Pokemon for thousands of hours I find myself oddly at peace with this news, figuring that those that aren't included will get their time some other day. I already had the issue of never getting around to actually using all those bred Pokemon and this roster size limitation might actually help me a bit in that regard.

I also like the implications this has for the competitive side of things as it'll probably provide a pretty substantial shake-up. Of course, they could have achieved the same result in a less disruptive way.

All of that said, I also find it completely reasonable and understandable to be upset by this development.
 
Didn't Masuda also say this is intended as a permanent policy change going forward?

It takes some serious incompetence to look at what is generally agreed to be the worst decision Pokemon ever made (gen 2-3 transfers being disallowed), which was only done because of technical limitations, and say "let's do this every game from now on, as a totally voluntary decision".

It's sad that there is content in freaking LGPE that is being excluded here.

I also like the implications this has for the competitive side of things as it'll probably provide a pretty substantial shake-up.
Honestly same, except insofar as Ubers will pretty much cease to exist. I assume it will be played almost exclusively as an "unlimited" format given that there will probably be like 5 ubers at most in this game.

I think the only current ubers confirmed are Mewtwo (the wonder card for the Mewtwo event in LGPE is compatible with SwSh) and presumably the new cover legendaries.
 

Martin

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Someone mentioned something that they could do on Discord yesterday that might be a cool way to implement incremental release of the rest of the dex that I wanna mention here.

Given that there are a number of Pokémon that are available exclusively via Max Raids, something that they could do is expand the range of dynamax with “seasonal” raids that effectively unlock Pokémon that are otherwise unobtainable, and when those raids cycle in it could “unlock” the forward transfer of those Pokémon for the duration of the raid season and beyond. This way they could both improve the lifespan of the max raid feature (encouraging players to keep coming back to the feature to obtain rare exclusive Pokémon) and still work to make all Pokémon eventually available within the game.

Of course, the other option (other than patching) would just be to release the rest of the dex when they make the Sinnoh remakes or third versions/sequels or whatever, and I’d be completely happy with that too.

Personally don’t care much about limited transfers regardless though. I can’t see Nintendo dumping trademarks this easily, and while this probably makes me sound like a hypocrite given my initial reaction to dynamax, I think there’s definitely a certain “storm in a teacup” aspect to this reaction to an unelaborated statement made in the treehouse live—they’re not so dumb as to not understand the implications of removing certain Pokémon from the game, and they wouldn’t have done this with no reason or forward plan.

Speaking of storms in teacups, we need a teacup Pokémon that learns Hurricane. And it needs to evolve into a teapot. Don’t let this opportunity to abuse the UK region slip away Game Freak !!!!!
 
they’re not so dumb as to not understand the implications of removing certain Pokémon from the game, and they wouldn’t have done this with no reason or forward plan.
Considering they tried removing half of the megas in gen 7 and have in general made a lot of questionable design decisions recently, I'm not so confident.

One thing I do appreciate is the absence of Z-moves.
 
Mixed feelings about the reveals, completely blown away by how (in my opinion) dumb the Mon limitation thing seems to be. For anyone who played the game, this is some Destiny 2 level shitstorm, and that was recovered only after a massive drop in player population and retention both (something massively unlikely to happen in Pokemon, I'd reckon).

Positives:

  • Really enjoyed the Doglike mon (less his speed, lol), clever design, fun ability to play with in-game (Heavy Ball Beldum soft-reset sessions, anybody?. The Dark-Fairy mon (I won't remember names until well after games will have been out, bear with me) was less impactful to me, but still a nice original design.
  • I really thought Dinamax was the stupidest combat mechanic ever, but after seeing the Steelix battle it growed on me. Mons shielding at half HP was very interesting, even though I wonder, after watching the fight and how buffed the stats seems to be, if this is a mechanic that would have been better left only for 4v1 raid battles (without turns restriction for the "Bossmon") rather than Gyms and the like. With mega and Z moves, the over the top mechanic gameplay is already clogged enough.
  • Wild areas, overworld mons. Machoke stalking the player was hilarious.
  • PSS-like feature in bottom left: yes, for Christ's sake! It appears to be an immediate, easy to access interaction feature, and God knows how much I've heckled at GenVII multiplayer interaction system. Well, as much as any of us, actually.
Negatives:

  • Another widespread Wingull invasion. If you're going to limit the Dex, at least be smart and consistent with previous games, rotate common past Gen Pokemon.
  • From stat spreads, Korviknight looks like a perfect Skarmory clone. Not a good look.
  • Return of the bike: still a little on the fence about this. Glad to see the floating devices, but I dread at the possibility of further Rotom interactions.
Ultranegatives:

Let's not beat around the bush here. For me the Dex limitation staff, if confirmed and Thanos-like, is a disaster waiting to happen.

While I agree with #The Shadow Knight that in fact, a superior consolle can imply more work to implement features that are worthy of such a consolle, I think that a blatant cut until the second wave of Gen 8 games is a terrible decision.

I'm not going to panic as I honestly think this will be a XY bank scenario, i.e. they want to rush out the game for Holidays and the cross-platforms, cross-games servers and functionalities will not be ready for several weeks, and after that, we will get access to anything we want. However, this is still a terrible PR and service policy to your customers, and Masuda's words imply this may not be the case, but I'm going with the best case scenario until proven otherwise.

Anyway, I understand both sides of the coin, but for collectors like me and others this sucks, and it's not like it's a small size of the playing population, and it's hardcore fans that you are risking getting the most pissed. Destiny 2 disregarded its core fans in favor of casual gameplay and the game sucked hard, this is where I draw the comparison. I love my Psyduck. A safari ball Psyduck, caught in gen IV, brough forward in V, VI and finally VII. Then I SOS chained Psyduck so I had a Gen VII HA Duck to transfer the HA to the Safari Ball lineage. Then I bred the life out of it.

And you know why I did all of this? Because, at 29 years old, I am a trolling moron who laughs hard and playfully enjoys a fat duck with seizures Cross-Chopping other Pocket Monsters, and I want what I feel like is the best version of it. This was just a dumb example, but people are attached to their mons, just like some other people are fully on board with fresh starts.

What I argue is that alienating part of your player base for, apparently, time constraints and development issues that comes off as very lackadaisical is a massive mistake. Assassin's Creed yearly releases got shitty to the point that they had to reboot the franchise.

The Pokemon Franchise, unlike any other, has the massive luck of people being attracted like bees to honey any new generation despite how shitty the games might actually be and how lackluster their "add and remove" policy is. But I feel this is a little too much, they're playing with fire (threatening to turn into an inferno) here.
 
I'm a gameplay guy first and foremost, and I will agree that there's a lot of redundancies in pokemon. That said, I have absolutely no reason to believe the cuts will reduce said redundancies rather than removing unique options. As an example, take Durant. On the surface, it's an uncommon mon that nobody ever talks about and isn't as good a bug/steel physical attacker as scizor. But, it's one of the few things that runs hone claws and actually gets something out of the accuracy boost, and it's the only one-mon source of passing Truant. Those qualities aren't exactly putting it in an impressive spot competitively, but I will take an unviable unique option over a viable redundant one, and especially over an unviable redundant option. If I'm dropping casual interests (because I'm going to need to to accept cuts at all, RIP celesteela, I will miss you), I would take durant over something like an electric type so focused on its various crutches that it doesn't do anything as interesting as Luxray does.

Yes, I just seriously reccomended dropping pikachu for durant.
 
I'm curious to see how they'll differentiate Corviknight from Skarmory in terms of functionality. It has an awesome design and is this game's HM Fly, but in the grand scheme of things we don't yet have any information that would indicate that it'll be much different in battle.



Notice how this Corviknight is Hasty. We don't know for sure what its IVs and EVs are (and therefore can't calculate its base stats with 100% confidence), but here's Hasty Skarmory:



It's not an exact clone, but you can't deny that the stat distribution isn't that different between them. Some of Skarm's Defense was moved into Corviknight's HP (and a little SpDef) and a little bit of Speed was moved into Special Attack, but otherwise they're pretty much the same. Corviknight has pretty generic abilities, and obviously the same typing.

I feel like there's no way that they would make a Pokemon that's this close in terms of stats and typing with no interesting ability to a popular Pokemon that already exists. Competitively, Corviknight appears to be more of a tank while of course Skarm is a wall which controls hazards, but there has to be some other differentiator. Maybe Corviknight will get a new useful move that hasn't existed until Gen 8? If I were designing Corviknight and it was it its current state, I would give it a unique move because otherwise it'd be too close to Skarm (and "just don't give it Rocks/Spikes" is not a good answer, that's lame).



The stats are also similar in some ways to Celesteela's, which of course also has the same typing. This isn't as close though, because Celesteela's ability and access to Grass and Fire moves distinguishes itself enough from Skarm and what Corviknight appears to be.
But here is the thing. They are removing Pokemon from the game. Why bother with Corviknight's stats being too simillar to the two previous Steel Flying if you can just remove the old ones?

(I'm not saying I agree with them. By the contrary, I'm worried we miggt get stuff we already saw in previous gens just repeated because said old mons can't be found)
 
But here is the thing. They are removing Pokemon from the game. Why bother with Corviknight's stats being too simillar to the two previous Steel Flying if you can just remove the old ones?

(I'm not saying I agree with them. By the contrary, I'm worried we miggt get stuff we already saw in previous gens just repeated because said old mons can't be found)
That said, Corviknight having higher HP pool and Pressure inherently make him a better stall-oriented pokemon than Skarmory, while Skarmory would hold its own niche as better hazard setter due to Sturdy
 
I do wonder if he seriously misspoke.

I could see them limiting the pokemon you can transfer until post-game, unlike Gen 7 which lets you transfer anything over at the start of the game.

If you look at interviews from 8 months ago, Masuda makes the point they don't want people to get angry about not being able to use Pokemon.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-switchs-core-pokemon-rpg-will-let-you-use/1100-6462481/

"We're definitely always thinking of that kind of forward-moving functionality, especially since we've introduced Pokemon Bank," Masuda told GameSpot through an interpreter. "Now, up to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, you're able to store your Pokemon, and we know they're very important to everyone. I mean, obviously, people would be very sad if they couldn't use their Pokemon in a future game. So, it does get complicated when you talk about the details and we're still figuring it out, but we do have plans to find ways to let players use their Pokemon in the next game."
 
Don't know if I have anything meaningful to add given what's already been posted here on the topic of the most recent revelations,
but here's my take anyways.

What they've announced seems like massive self-inflicted wound with almost no upside. And time constraints as a stated reason for "Pokexit" or whatever this will come to be known as should not make sense for the flagship property (17 billion USD) of a 90 billion USD media franchise. Now imagine if the day 1 datamine reveals that everything is actually in place just not implemented. Anyway, almost as bad was the way this was rolled out: having Masuda just sneak it in during treehouse instead of Pokemon Direct or the E3 main presentation is baffling given the implications.

From a Battle Spot perspective, I personally relish the chance to have a brand new canvas to make my mark on. I hope the item changes go even beyond the assumed removal of z-crystals and mega stones to include things that we've taken for granted for years like Choice Scarf, for example.
 
From reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/bzl1wx/direct_translation_from_masuda_about_the_limited/

その結果、今作から対応方針を変えることにしました。冒険の舞台に合わせて、拘って登場するポケモンを決めている
Because of this, from this game forward, our policy will change. The Pokemon that will appear will be specially selected to fit the stage of adventure.
Implying quite strongly that this "only regional dex is programmed in" bullshit is going to deliberately continue throughout all future games forever.

Or, as the creator of the reddit thread puts it:
TLDR: There likely won't be another pokemon game will all the pokemon in it ever.

Another illuminating/interesting post from that reddit thread:
Reposting from a reply of mine, but I felt that I should share this likely scenario for younger players who don't know any better.
Imagine being a little kid and you manage to find a shiny Ho-oh out of the blue in Crystal VC. You jump out of your seat, your heart's racing, it looks freakin' awesome, right? You catch it, and you cherish it. But it's just a bundle of pixels, imagine how amazing it'd look like on the big screen!
So you nab your mom's credit card, pay the $5 and excitedly transfer your shiny Ho-oh to Bank and then to Home. You try to transfer it to SwSh aaaaaand "Nope not in the Galar Dex, sorry kid." But that random Pidgey you caught at the very beginning of the game can get through the gates just fine. And you're not gonna know EVERY SINGLE POKÉMON THAT'S IN THE GALAR DEX, so your little collection is now fractured.
Now you ask yourself, "well why did I bother paying for this then?" So you try to transfer it back to Crystal, or at least back to Bank and then USUM. Nope, it's stuck in "Home" now, you can't battle or play with it, it's just sitting there as a small menu sprite (that doesn't even show its shiny colors, at that). It might be AGES before Ho-oh will qualify to be transferred over, but you don't know that, and you're impatient. And remember, you're a kid, so every year you either gotta bug your mom for her credit card again, or watch as your beloved shiny Ho-oh disappears into the aether. Yeah, now you feel slighted by the makers of this game you love, now you hate Pokémon... All because some people in another country didn't have the time and wanted to rush out a product, and even make it a POLICY to limit transfers from now on. Good going Game Freak, you now ruin childhoods.
 

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Some random thoughts on the Masuda Snap from me too:

First of all, I can sort of see where they are coming from. Content pile-up in Pokémon has been a problem for a while. There are tons of Legendaries whose story significance expired several generations ago, signature moves kept in the code for Pokémon that almost never see use, obscure mechanics related to gimmick moves few people even know about, Incenses, Berries, Plates, Mega Stones, Z-Crystals and form(e) changers out the wazoo, in addition to more Pokémon than you can realistically cram into one region, postgame included. It was clear that sooner or later, they would come to a point where the old content pile would become too overburdening, and some say it has really been a thing since Gen VI or so.

However, Game Freak's approach to this problem has been pretty sloppy. Although recent generations have added fewer Pokémon to the 'dex presumably in an effort to slow down the pile-up, they still haven't done much about the core issue. For instance, look at 'mons like Silvally or Oricorio, whom Game Freak casually designed around the concept of using multiple items that were completely useless beyond their association to that one specific Pokémon. The attitude seems to have been "who cares about the next games, let's make things that are fun in this game and throw them on the pile for a later day". If they only realize now that the pile has become too big to handle, that's mostly their own fault, with the insistence on creating new mechanics all the time instead of reusing old ones.

So yeah, it was always clear that something had to be done. If not now, then soon. But the line of thought about the handling of the pile seems just as sloppy as the line that led to it in the first place. Taking out half of it and saying "We won't bother implementing all that" is not a good solution. Because up 'till now, they have always owned their problems, taking responsibility for all the content in the pile for every generation. This creates a certain level of expectation and trust the fans now see as broken, hence the backlash. Every Pokémon is somebody's favourite, after all. It's also great fun to try out non-regional Pokémon in a playthrough, and see how differently they work in the game from the ones the designers meant to give you. That won't be possible anymore, and I understand that people are bummed out by it. I am too.


That all being said, what could they have done? As I said, something would have to happen. And I think Home would be a good answer. Were it up to me, I'd have added a ton of functionality to it. For instance, a Battle Whatever, move tutors, trading, link battles, minigames, the works. I'd have made Home the Pokémon Stadium successor some people have called for. Not just a storage box you can put Pokémon into but not withdraw them from, but a game in its own right. I'd also make it the official platform for VGC. Players would happily buy it and pay the subscription fee. They would also have tolerated that things would be missing from the core series games, as Home would be the "series core" if you like.

Another solution would be to revise things, trimming the fat without amputating. Change evolution methods so all Pokémon evolve by plain level up, Evolution Stones or trade. Do all forme changes through interaction with the same object. Drastically reduce the number of signature moves. Have one Z-Crystal and one Mega Stone. Simply make it less of a hassle to implement old stuff in new games. However, the loss of uniqueness might be hard to swallow, making the game have a wide but shallow pool of content. With all the unique aspects stripped away, a whole lot of Pokémon would begin to look all to much like a whole other lot of Pokémon.

I guess they could also have done business as usual for one more generation, just to give the old design philosophy a final swan song on console. The Switch could handle it just fine, since the 3DS did it with a fraction of the computing power. Then they could have tempered fan expectations a little with a more carefully managed PR process, or found a solution that would keep players somewhat happy with the new order instead of suddenly taking a dump on their carefully built-up expectations during an interview like this.
 
I do wonder if he seriously misspoke.

I could see them limiting the pokemon you can transfer until post-game, unlike Gen 7 which lets you transfer anything over at the start of the game.

If you look at interviews from 8 months ago, Masuda makes the point they don't want people to get angry about not being able to use Pokemon.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-switchs-core-pokemon-rpg-will-let-you-use/1100-6462481/
I really hope so.

Unfortunately, only a blanket approach (like delaying Bank in Gen VI or whatever the announcement of yesterday was) can prevent non-regional Pokemon from circulating.

Here's why: even limiting Home access to post-game only wouldn't prevent non-regional Mons from circulating, for one simple reason: trading.
People will inherently be at different points of the game process all the time, hence if the solution is what you suggested, there will be people with home and transfer access potentially trading with people who have not reached the post-game yet.

There's a variety of ways to circumvent it presently:

  1. Wonder trading, inherently (should such a feature be kept);
  2. GTS if they don't take out the name search;
  3. We wonder trade, I add you as a friend: you have non-regional mons, we do a private trade and you send me a non-regional mons despite me not being in post-game, unless they hard-code the software to not be able to trade such Pokemon until post-game.
Everything seems like a chore to me, instead of porting every mon to the new gen immediately, unless you prevent trading until post-game, which sounds even dumber (we know species like Machoke are in the game: are we seriously discussing a possible FR LG Crobat scenario? Are the developers so out of date?).

In gen 7, as you hinted, you can transfer everything immediately at the price of a non-present Dex for half the mons we know (which already causes some mons to stay in the shadows because you can't relate as well as with mons you can access features, animations and so on). This already sounded dumb to me, but this is next-level.

The more I look at it the more it appears like they're in trouble timetable-wise and want to Thanos-snap the problem for the time being, or re-sell cross Gen/National Dex compatibility for third versions/remakes, which nowadays with cloud storage and wi-fi access everywhere for people to trade (in a trade based game!) sounds stupid as hell. Either that, or they want to take the lazy way out in game management. Which would be, incredibly, even a more mind-boggling decision.
 
I've seen a post somewhere saying "why would u want the entire dex if...?" But then proceeds to talk about competitive. What competitive? What are you talking about? What do you think we, players with knowledge on 6v6 singles, of USUM/ORAS/GSC... metas, represent? Nothing. No, no. Hear me a sec. Nothing. Nothing. VGC is nothing when you take into account the raw number of players that enjoy Pokémon. Millions and millions of people. Singles is less than nothing, it isn't even an official format. And yet, some believe that they are wiping half -or whatever- of the PokéDex because somehow, they are going to balance the game, change base stats, change movepools in grand scale, check Pokémon after Pokémon and work on it. Sure. Keep dreaming.

Now, in regards to the other user whose name I don't remember. "Catch them all is an american thing, it doesn't exist in Japan, so it's value in the world is zero". Something about those lines. Sure dude.

Im sorry but North America is not the World. Here, in Spain, "Gotta Catch Them All" is also the catchphrase the series is known for ("¡Hazte con todos!), so is in Latin America, which is massive. And I'm pretty sure its the same in, at least, all Europe. So yes. If "Gotta Catch Them All" is a thing in literally the entire world EXCEPT Japan, it has an impact and it doesn't matter if it is or not a thing in Japan. Pokémon is not Japan, Pokémon is a worldwide sucess, but ey, if you want to believe that just because in Japan it isn't a thing it shouldn't have an impact, even if it is a thing in the entire world outside Japan, sure.
 
I've seen a post somewhere saying "why would u want the entire dex if...?" But then proceeds to talk about competitive. What competitive? What are you talking about? What do you think we, players with knowledge on 6v6 singles, of USUM/ORAS/GSC... metas, represent? Nothing. No, no. Hear me a sec. Nothing. Nothing. VGC is nothing when you take into account the raw number of players that enjoy Pokémon. Millions and millions of people. Singles is less than nothing, it isn't even an official format. And yet, some believe that they are wiping half -or whatever- of the PokéDex because somehow, they are going to balance the game, change base stats, change movepools in grand scale, check Pokémon after Pokémon and work on it. Sure. Keep dreaming.

Now, in regards to the other user whose name I don't remember. "Catch them all is an american thing, it doesn't exist in Japan, so it's value in the world is zero". Something about those lines. Sure dude.

Im sorry but North America is not the World. Here, in Spain, "Gotta Catch Them All" is also the catchphrase the series is known for ("¡Hazte con todos!), so is in Latin America, which is massive. And I'm pretty sure its the same in, at least, all Europe. So yes. If "Gotta Catch Them All" is a thing in literally the entire world EXCEPT Japan, it has an impact and it doesn't matter if it is or not a thing in Japan. Pokémon is not Japan, Pokémon is a worldwide sucess, but ey, if you want to believe that just because in Japan it isn't a thing it shouldn't have an impact, even if it is a thing in the entire world outside Japan, sure.
Same here in Italy, "Acchiappali tutti!". Good points overall.
 
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