Pokemon Sword & Shield Discussion RD: 15/11/2019

Is Starly present in any trailer or scan? 'cause I think 50% HP boosted D-max scarfed Final Gambit can be some kind of a panic button in every battle.

(oh, nevermind. I forgot it will be replaced for Fighting max move)
 
Based on the article about the Larvitar/Jangmo-o event on the official Nintendo website, it looks like Dynamax Crystals could be their new way of distributing event pokemon.

"Codes can only be used in the Wild Area of each game, can only be used once and can be used in either the Pokemon Sword or Pokemon Shield game. Using a Dynamax Crystal will make a Max Raid Battle available in your game. The battle will be available until midnight on the day that the Dynamax Crystal was used. Dynamax Crystals may be provided via other methods in the future."

I think it sounds like an interesting way to run events, since you have to battle the event pokemon before you catch it!
 
Based on the article about the Larvitar/Jangmo-o event on the official Nintendo website, it looks like Dynamax Crystals could be their new way of distributing event pokemon.

"Codes can only be used in the Wild Area of each game, can only be used once and can be used in either the Pokemon Sword or Pokemon Shield game. Using a Dynamax Crystal will make a Max Raid Battle available in your game. The battle will be available until midnight on the day that the Dynamax Crystal was used. Dynamax Crystals may be provided via other methods in the future."

I think it sounds like an interesting way to run events, since you have to battle the event pokemon before you catch it!
I don't mind this, I think it's fair, but considering that Gigamax capable pokemon are said to only be catchable in Raid Battles, I hope we don't end up having Event only Gigamax forms for actually competitive pokemon..

I don't mind fun "special forms" like Hat pikachus (who while event only and with signature Z-move aren't competitive so it's just collector stuff basically), but having another Eruptran case would trigger me :|
 
Pokenchi and its other variants throughout the years are notorious for very rarely showing off anything new, or if it is new, very small morsels at the end of the program.

August is coming up soon, though, and thats when the ball really gets rolling concerning pokemon. Keep your eyes open.
 
Based on the article about the Larvitar/Jangmo-o event on the official Nintendo website, it looks like Dynamax Crystals could be their new way of distributing event pokemon.

"Codes can only be used in the Wild Area of each game, can only be used once and can be used in either the Pokemon Sword or Pokemon Shield game. Using a Dynamax Crystal will make a Max Raid Battle available in your game. The battle will be available until midnight on the day that the Dynamax Crystal was used. Dynamax Crystals may be provided via other methods in the future."

I think it sounds like an interesting way to run events, since you have to battle the event pokemon before you catch it!
One potential problem is with the "until midnight on that day" clause. It would suck if a player used, say, a Darkrai crystal and then failed the capture.

I don't think we've had event distributions where it was possible to permanently miss the actual event after redeeming it since, what, gen 3?
 

Pikachu315111

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I've been debating how (and even if) I should respond to the counter-arguments, but honestly I'd just be re-stating what I already said. Infact something Kurona said I think emphasizes the problem with this argument:

I'm sorry, but I really cannot follow the arguments you've presented when it lacks solid facts to back it up and seems to rely on personal theories.
Now, this was obviously a response to my personal theories, but the thing is, I can throw this right back at TenshouYoku and Kurona. I don't know the facts, you don't know the facts, no one knows the facts. And in my personal opinion that's a bit concerning. Now obliviously I'm not saying I want to see GF's financial records, but I think we should at least have an idea whether the developer that makes our favorite video game franchise is in good standings or is struggling. I think back to TellTales Games and how it's closure felt so sudden unless you knew how much of a mess things were on the inside. Should we be worried GF is also going through the same problems or is there no problem?

We shouldn't be having these arguments, yet we are. So because of this, I'm just going to give some quick responses to certain points:

GF's Shareholder Portion On TPC: From what I understand Game Freak, Nintendo, and Creatures Inc. all have equal (or close enough to it) share.

2 Years Between USUM & SwSh: Pokemon Let's Go was released less than a year ago:

Pokemon Sun & Moon: November 18th, 2016
Pokemon USUM: November 17th, 2017
Pokemon Let's Go: November 16th, 2018

There's only a year of focused development between each. Yes, they're probably working on small parts of multiple projects at the same time, but the bulk of development is done between the releases. Sword & Shield would have less than a year of focused development, and that's not taking into account GF has split their team to also work on their new project Town.

Anime's Schedule: At this point the anime is it's own thing. Sun & Moon barely followed the games plot to being with. Sure, they're having the League now, but that doesn't mean they couldn't find ways to extend Sun & Moon. Because the anime had done arc extensions before: Orange Islands, Battle Frontier, Episode N & Decolora Adventures. They could easily do a filler season for Sun & Moon. We've got some stuff they hadn't done like the Ultra Recon Squad, maybe explore the other Ultra Beasts worlds and Ultra Megalopolis. Let's also remember they do sometimes plan ahead but run out of time, like how Ash said he was going to challenge the Sinnoh Battle Frontier.

Stakeholders & "Blank Year": And what if GF decides take two years instead of one to develop the games? Leave? That'd be pretty stupid of them to give up their shares of one of the most profitable franchises. Heck, I'd even argue they wouldn't even notice. Why? Because there would be no "blank" year. The Stakeholders would have a stake in the Pokemon Company, not GameFreak. And TPC is a merchandise making machine. Take a look at the Shop page. They're constantly thinking of new themes that have nothing to do with the core games. They're also the ones working with other game developers for side games like Go, Masters, and Sleep. The stakeholders are always seeing Pokemon having new things. Also, TPC doesn't need to wait for the new games to be released in order to make merchandise of new Pokemon. Like right now they can probably release plush toys and pillows of Wooloo and it would make them bank alone.

GF Living On Core Games & TPC Shares: And that's a bad thing? That sounds like it would make them enough to give their workers a nice salary, keep the company going, and able to work on personal projects like Town.

About Town: Also, I don't think Town is ever going to reach the popularity of Pokemon. If that's GF's goal then they may want to prepare for disappointment. Don't get me wrong, it'll do fine, like their other non-Pokemon side games, but don't think we'll be seeing "The Town Company". If anything they'd probably sell Town-related products via the Pokemon Company, though that's a big if as I don't recall The Pokemon Company doing the same with their other side games (but they didn't put such a focus on those games as they are with Town so that could be the difference). But, yeah, they're not making Town because they're looking for another major franchise to make revenue from (maybe it would be nice if that were to happen, but not likely), but rather they're making Town because they want to. They have an idea for a new game that wouldn't fit Pokemon so are making a new IP. Which is actually a HUGE risk on GF's part because they split the team.

Infact, if TPC and Nintendo had such a strict hold on GF, wouldn't they object to this? Wouldn't they tell GF to halt development on Town to put all hands on deck for SwSh? And for GF themselves wouldn't it make sense for them to do that anyway if the main concern was revenue as SwSh would bring in a boost of revenue they could then use on developing Town? This is why I don't think Town is such a major factor here.

GF Asking TCP For Extra Money: GF and TCP need each other to survive at this point. GF needs TCP to handle all the merchandising and other media deals while TPC needs GF because they make the games. Because, if GF was to vanish, what would that mean for TCP? Not very good news, I'd imagine, as the games are the main reasons why a lot of people buy Pokemon merch: they have a favorite Pokemon in the games they'd like real life stuff of. If the games go, many people would assume the franchise is dead. Thus, wouldn't it be in TCP's best interest to, if GF ever asked them for money to develop the game, to give them the money? Like they're would probably be paper work to deal with to assure the money is only being used on developing the new games (like hiring more people), but a little paper work is nothing compared to assuring the fuel source for selling the merchandise is the best it could possibly be.

Planning Deadlines: My point on the deadline are this: the point of planning ahead is to assure there would be NO FORCED deadlines. Like while I'm sure they have meetings for yearly plans, they'd also have bigger meetings for like 5- or more year plans. And it would be in these meetings, not the yearly ones which would just be progress reports, where GF would discuss how much time they would need to develop the games. And once they know the rough deadline, TPC and Nintendo would adjust their plans accordingly. Is that not common sense? If GF said they'd need two or maybe even three years of development time for one of the games, TPC and Nintendo would plan for the year or two gap no core series game is being made. GF would then had a two or three year deadline they'd need to keep to. Yes, TCP and Nintendo are the shackles keeping GF on a hard deadline, but it's GF themselves who are deciding the length of the shackles chains.


Trying To Be Optimistic: Look, my point in all this is that GF can be doing better. There's no reason that during the 5 year planning they can't ask for more development time or they can't hire more people to work on the games. They're the developers of one of the most successful video game franchises that also supported by a major merchandising machine and one of the big three video game companies. These are self-imposed limitations on GF's part, like they're trying to do a business speedrun to look all cool.

So uhhh... What mons would you like to get in to benefit the developing metagame? FerroPex has our defensive backbone covered for now, so right now I'm mainly hoping for more Fire types to alleviate the current shortage as well as more bulky Fairy types to take on Weavile better.
Well, before asking for more Types that we do have new Pokemon for (I'm also one of those who believe all the non-Mega Pokemon form Let's Go will be in SwSh thus from just that we have a good number of at least Fire-types), how about for Types we don't have a new Pokemon for yet:

Fighting, Poison, Ground, Bug, Ghost, Psychic, & Ice.

At the very least show us the aces for the Fighting and Ghost-type Gym Leaders.

Now if I were to be more specific, I'd actually like them to include maybe some of the Pokemon who names aren't usually heard around the competitive scene, the NU and UU. Give them a nice buff in some way and, even in this brief moment, allow some of them to be OU or maybe even Uber. Not only would it maybe be a nice consolation to all of those who like those Pokemon for not having their other favorites in, it would maybe be a bit funny a Pokemon you'd before never though twice about now appearing all over the meta.
 
IIRC Pokenchi showed the buddy moves last year for LG, and they never actually hinted at any news in their preview for July 21st.

Sad to see Serebii fall into the category of fake news.
 
IIRC Pokenchi showed the buddy moves last year for LG, and they never actually hinted at any news in their preview for July 21st.

Sad to see Serebii fall into the category of fake news.
It specifically says "Currently unclear if it will be brand new information or previously known information.".
 
What was the original source for the "Pokenchi has said they will show the latest SwSh info on July 21" statement?
It was just from Serebii, which I thought was reliable up until now. I checked the teaser for the July 21st episode and they didn't mention it at all so idk where they got that from.
 
Man, I understand that the national dex will need to be axed at some point, but I do hope GameFreak changes its mind and literally just convert the 3ds models + upscale the textures. (It would take a few weeks AT MOST, as someone who just did that with older N64 games)

I used to be excited in the meta for gen 8 since I'm not a big fan of how Smogon handled the past 3 gens and ESPECIALLY USUM, but GameFreak is going to axe all my favorite Pokemon that makes me care about this otherwise boring game but keep Toxapex. I went from excited to completely uncaring since it's basically confirmed I won't be able to compete with my 2 favorite Pokemon.

Nintendo just lost a noticeable amount of money assuming more people like me exist. I would only get a Switch for Pokemon since I am completely uninterested in all the other Switch titles/similar variants exist on the 3ds so why should I spend $200+ for it?
 
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I don't know why i have the feeling that the National dex will be a feature reserved for the second game in the generation (remix or sequel) from now on, just like move tutors and previous gen legendaries.

Edit:About Dynamax and Gigantamax

I think we should no have so strong opinions about the mechanic when we don't have the full concept of how it would work besides some "stat changes" or "z-move like attacks"

Happy with the open world mechanic on routes
 
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Reminder that dexit talk is still not to be brought back up! As for your concern about losing money, all the complaints only keep pokemon circling in the minds of everyone, creating more buyers to fill your shoes. The more people make public stances, the more peoples interests will be drawn towards it.

Now, to pull this back away from annoying circular spirals, its almost August! In gen 6 we got Megas. In gen 7 we got Variants and Z moves. What do you guys expect to see this time?
 
Reminder that dexit talk is still not to be brought back up! As for your concern about losing money, all the complaints only keep pokemon circling in the minds of everyone, creating more buyers to fill your shoes. The more people make public stances, the more peoples interests will be drawn towards it.

Now, to pull this back away from annoying circular spirals, its almost August! In gen 6 we got Megas. In gen 7 we got Variants and Z moves. What do you guys expect to see this time?
We've... already gotten the big gimmick of this gen. Dynamax and Gigantamax. That's the equivalent to the things you mentioned.

Either way, isn't baseless speculation also not something to be brought up?
 
We've... already gotten the big gimmick of this gen. Dynamax and Gigantamax. That's the equivalent to the things you mentioned.

Either way, isn't baseless speculation also not something to be brought up?
OK, fair enough. Lets try something else.

Max raid Battles looked really fun to me from a team Co-op perspective. Based on the mons we know exist, who do you think would be good "meta" picks for all around raids? Reminder that these Raid Bosses can attack twice, everyone is allowed 1 mon per raid.
 
We've... already gotten the big gimmick of this gen. Dynamax and Gigantamax. That's the equivalent to the things you mentioned.

Either way, isn't baseless speculation also not something to be brought up?
To be honest, while we did get the new Gimmick, we do indeed know very little of it.

More light on which Gigamaxable pokemon exist, how to get them, and the details of Dinamaxing (is it just 50% hp and moves transformed in D.versions as we expected?) and what that Dynamax level meant would be pretty good to get at this point.

I don't quite remind if we got to know the entire Mega / variants list beforehand in previous gens honestly, it's been quite a while... but if that was true, it's not unreasonable to see more Gigamax reveals in the next weeks.
 
XY Megas and Alola Forms both had the majority of theirs revealed pre-release; much like a new Pokémon roster. ORAS Megas were notoriously all revealed pre-release, while the new Pokémon in USUM had... a couple surprises waiting.
 
I recall the Alolan Geodude line and Alolan Diglett specifically (not Alolan Dugtrio) being the only unrevealed Alolan forms at SM's release. We also didn't know about Ultra Necrozma, Light That Burns The Sky, or Naganadel until USUM's release.

Does anyone remember if there were any non-event Z-Moves that weren't known until SM's release (whether generic-type or signature or both)? How about for USUM (aside from Ultra Necrozma's)?
 
I've been debating how (and even if) I should respond to the counter-arguments, but honestly I'd just be re-stating what I already said. Infact something Kurona said I think emphasizes the problem with this argument:



Now, this was obviously a response to my personal theories, but the thing is, I can throw this right back at TenshouYoku and Kurona. I don't know the facts, you don't know the facts, no one knows the facts. And in my personal opinion that's a bit concerning. Now obliviously I'm not saying I want to see GF's financial records, but I think we should at least have an idea whether the developer that makes our favorite video game franchise is in good standings or is struggling. I think back to TellTales Games and how it's closure felt so sudden unless you knew how much of a mess things were on the inside. Should we be worried GF is also going through the same problems or is there no problem?

We shouldn't be having these arguments, yet we are. So because of this, I'm just going to give some quick responses to certain points:

GF's Shareholder Portion On TPC: From what I understand Game Freak, Nintendo, and Creatures Inc. all have equal (or close enough to it) share.

2 Years Between USUM & SwSh: Pokemon Let's Go was released less than a year ago:

Pokemon Sun & Moon: November 18th, 2016
Pokemon USUM: November 17th, 2017
Pokemon Let's Go: November 16th, 2018

There's only a year of focused development between each. Yes, they're probably working on small parts of multiple projects at the same time, but the bulk of development is done between the releases. Sword & Shield would have less than a year of focused development, and that's not taking into account GF has split their team to also work on their new project Town.

Anime's Schedule: At this point the anime is it's own thing. Sun & Moon barely followed the games plot to being with. Sure, they're having the League now, but that doesn't mean they couldn't find ways to extend Sun & Moon. Because the anime had done arc extensions before: Orange Islands, Battle Frontier, Episode N & Decolora Adventures. They could easily do a filler season for Sun & Moon. We've got some stuff they hadn't done like the Ultra Recon Squad, maybe explore the other Ultra Beasts worlds and Ultra Megalopolis. Let's also remember they do sometimes plan ahead but run out of time, like how Ash said he was going to challenge the Sinnoh Battle Frontier.

Stakeholders & "Blank Year": And what if GF decides take two years instead of one to develop the games? Leave? That'd be pretty stupid of them to give up their shares of one of the most profitable franchises. Heck, I'd even argue they wouldn't even notice. Why? Because there would be no "blank" year. The Stakeholders would have a stake in the Pokemon Company, not GameFreak. And TPC is a merchandise making machine. Take a look at the Shop page. They're constantly thinking of new themes that have nothing to do with the core games. They're also the ones working with other game developers for side games like Go, Masters, and Sleep. The stakeholders are always seeing Pokemon having new things. Also, TPC doesn't need to wait for the new games to be released in order to make merchandise of new Pokemon. Like right now they can probably release plush toys and pillows of Wooloo and it would make them bank alone.

GF Living On Core Games & TPC Shares: And that's a bad thing? That sounds like it would make them enough to give their workers a nice salary, keep the company going, and able to work on personal projects like Town.

About Town: Also, I don't think Town is ever going to reach the popularity of Pokemon. If that's GF's goal then they may want to prepare for disappointment. Don't get me wrong, it'll do fine, like their other non-Pokemon side games, but don't think we'll be seeing "The Town Company". If anything they'd probably sell Town-related products via the Pokemon Company, though that's a big if as I don't recall The Pokemon Company doing the same with their other side games (but they didn't put such a focus on those games as they are with Town so that could be the difference). But, yeah, they're not making Town because they're looking for another major franchise to make revenue from (maybe it would be nice if that were to happen, but not likely), but rather they're making Town because they want to. They have an idea for a new game that wouldn't fit Pokemon so are making a new IP. Which is actually a HUGE risk on GF's part because they split the team.

Infact, if TPC and Nintendo had such a strict hold on GF, wouldn't they object to this? Wouldn't they tell GF to halt development on Town to put all hands on deck for SwSh? And for GF themselves wouldn't it make sense for them to do that anyway if the main concern was revenue as SwSh would bring in a boost of revenue they could then use on developing Town? This is why I don't think Town is such a major factor here.

GF Asking TCP For Extra Money: GF and TCP need each other to survive at this point. GF needs TCP to handle all the merchandising and other media deals while TPC needs GF because they make the games. Because, if GF was to vanish, what would that mean for TCP? Not very good news, I'd imagine, as the games are the main reasons why a lot of people buy Pokemon merch: they have a favorite Pokemon in the games they'd like real life stuff of. If the games go, many people would assume the franchise is dead. Thus, wouldn't it be in TCP's best interest to, if GF ever asked them for money to develop the game, to give them the money? Like they're would probably be paper work to deal with to assure the money is only being used on developing the new games (like hiring more people), but a little paper work is nothing compared to assuring the fuel source for selling the merchandise is the best it could possibly be.

Planning Deadlines: My point on the deadline are this: the point of planning ahead is to assure there would be NO FORCED deadlines. Like while I'm sure they have meetings for yearly plans, they'd also have bigger meetings for like 5- or more year plans. And it would be in these meetings, not the yearly ones which would just be progress reports, where GF would discuss how much time they would need to develop the games. And once they know the rough deadline, TPC and Nintendo would adjust their plans accordingly. Is that not common sense? If GF said they'd need two or maybe even three years of development time for one of the games, TPC and Nintendo would plan for the year or two gap no core series game is being made. GF would then had a two or three year deadline they'd need to keep to. Yes, TCP and Nintendo are the shackles keeping GF on a hard deadline, but it's GF themselves who are deciding the length of the shackles chains.


Trying To Be Optimistic: Look, my point in all this is that GF can be doing better. There's no reason that during the 5 year planning they can't ask for more development time or they can't hire more people to work on the games. They're the developers of one of the most successful video game franchises that also supported by a major merchandising machine and one of the big three video game companies. These are self-imposed limitations on GF's part, like they're trying to do a business speedrun to look all cool.



Well, before asking for more Types that we do have new Pokemon for (I'm also one of those who believe all the non-Mega Pokemon form Let's Go will be in SwSh thus from just that we have a good number of at least Fire-types), how about for Types we don't have a new Pokemon for yet:

Fighting, Poison, Ground, Bug, Ghost, Psychic, & Ice.

At the very least show us the aces for the Fighting and Ghost-type Gym Leaders.

Now if I were to be more specific, I'd actually like them to include maybe some of the Pokemon who names aren't usually heard around the competitive scene, the NU and UU. Give them a nice buff in some way and, even in this brief moment, allow some of them to be OU or maybe even Uber. Not only would it maybe be a nice consolation to all of those who like those Pokemon for not having their other favorites in, it would maybe be a bit funny a Pokemon you'd before never though twice about now appearing all over the meta.
There's any interesting video you may want to watch: Knowledge Hub's Insight

KH basically breaks down why Pokemon could being do all of that- and he goes through points like we've already discussed- but the main point is that Pokemon sales are not from the games but rather from merchandise- the main point basically is this: Pokemon Games exist for merchandising-not for a good game experience; aka creating plushies and trading cards etc. The games aren't "good " because they don't have to be. People will buy and play the games because they have the same gameplay and colorful mons, and then most will buy things based off the series. Its really common marketing technique- I mean look at the Powerpuff girls reboot- terrible show, but the Powerpuff girls are iconic so people could still bank off them. This goes back to why GF refuses to hire more people and spend more time making animation better. The games don’t have to be good as long as they sell merchandise, which they will.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
KH basically breaks down why Pokemon could being do all of that- and he goes through points like we've already discussed- but the main point is that Pokemon sales are not from the games but rather from merchandise- the main point basically is this: Pokemon Games exist for merchandising-not for a good game experience; aka creating plushies and trading cards etc. The games aren't "good " because they don't have to be. People will buy and play the games because they have the same gameplay and colorful mons, and then most will buy things based off the series. Its really common marketing technique- I mean look at the Powerpuff girls reboot- terrible show, but the Powerpuff girls are iconic so people could still bank off them. This goes back to why GF refuses to hire more people and spend more time making animation better. The games don’t have to be good as long as they sell merchandise, which they will.
Counterpoints:
Yokai watch games are more polished than pokemon but because they're pushed out so quickly and they're all so similar, the franchise got fatigued really quickly. It is also a series designed to be easily merchandisable, but it is not doing nearly as well as it was when it first started. It didn't matter that they kept introducing new yokai with every game to sell off. I am interested in seeing how the new switch game does, as it looks very different from the 3DS games.

Monster hunter is another long running series with a lot of cruft that's built up over the generations and some very convoluted systems that make the series difficult to get into. It's also hugely popular with a lot of passionate fans who have been playing it for a long time, but the gameplay is largely the same from game to game, with minor features added or removed in each generation. Capcom made a gamble with Monster Hunter World, as it had the challenge of trying to reinvent the base game while keeping it easier for newer players to get into and still keeping older hardcore fans happy. World ended up paying off and was hugely successful precisely because it was a great "refresh" that the franchise needed, something that simply adding new monsters could never have done.
 
To be honest, while we did get the new Gimmick, we do indeed know very little of it.

More light on which Gigamaxable pokemon exist, how to get them, and the details of Dinamaxing (is it just 50% hp and moves transformed in D.versions as we expected?) and what that Dynamax level meant would be pretty good to get at this point.

I don't quite remind if we got to know the entire Mega / variants list beforehand in previous gens honestly, it's been quite a while... but if that was true, it's not unreasonable to see more Gigamax reveals in the next weeks.
Ah right. Now I remember the real hype killer.

I thought GameFreak was actually making a smart decision by removing mega evolution and Z Moves to allow for a more dynamic and less centralizing metagame. Then news of gigantamaxing occurs and this new gimmick is literally just both mega evolution and Z moves combined. Honestly, looking at the effects of the moves they will probably be more polarizing and still cause a giant schism in terms of competitive viability.
 

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