Pokemon Sword & Shield Isle of Armour & Crown Tundra discussion

[R_N]

Honestly I expect it to be available after Leon. In this case they are probably going to be feeding you multiple legendary pokemon (exp if the Regis/Birds are part of the plot) and I think even GF would realize it's a bad idea to feed you level 30 legendaries halfway in the story (hello Latis).

Urshifu is meant to come at about level 30 so I think level 30 birds you're (hypothetically) meant to catch wouldn't be too outlandish provided the DLC is meant to "start" at midgame. Coincidentally, around when you are required to go back through the wild area a second time!

Honestly this question is partially why I asked if there were any progress blockers with Armor. Letting you get the birds (& Urshifu) at midgame wouldn't be too bad, I think, but also the regi in short order? Plus *mhm* whatever else is in there.

Also, there's the fact Calyrex might have some connection with the "ancient heros" like the dogs, which would also want a plot that acts as continuation of the main one rather than "side story" like Kubfu's.

oh for sure, this is why I think Calyrex is definitely going to be on par with the "get urshifu's g-max/fight mustard". The finale part of the DLC you can't do until you've beaten the game.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I'm curious how the birds, golems, Calyrex, Peony, and possibly Slowpoke will relate to each other in the story. From what I've seen and heard about how Kubfu was handled, I'm worried that they just... won't.

 

[R_N]

I'm curious how the birds, golems, Calyrex, Peony, and possibly Slowpoke will relate to each other in the story. From what I've seen and heard about how Kubfu was handled, I'm worried that they just... won't.

I don't see why they would relate to each other? I mean they could, of course, but I suspect the tundra being a haven for legendary pokemon is just a contrivance to have a bunch of cool legendary pokemon to investigate.

e: Well, Peony might relate back to Calyrex in some fashion, I suppose. Depends on what his deal is, if there's more to it than just investigating for his daughter's interests

 

[sb879]

While I more or less liked your post, there's one thing I'd point out.

The DLC was actually designed with the idea that you visit it right as the station unlocks. They did put this whole... "level scaling" as in, everything jumps up in levels as an attempt to make it playable in postgame but it doesnt work very well.

If you tackle this with your story team at one of those points, you would have a way cooler experience:
- As soon as you unlock the wild area and the station: enemies will actually be on level with you, and those... unevolved pokemon won't feel wrong since they'd be at the levels you would expect. Kubfu would also feel better as you'd not need to raise it to level 70 (woweeeee) to tackle the tower. In the end you'd have a neat team you can use to continue the story, which'll be slightly higher level than usual but let's be honest, you'd overlevel the main story anyway.
- Just after beating Leon: in this case, even though there's the plague of unevolved level 60+s and the tragedy that is feeding candies to Kubfu until it vomits, you also would have a team more or less on level. In fact, I did this (sorta), as I kept my story team untouched after beating Leon, and literally used that. I in fact almost lost to Avery (Quick Draw 3 turns in a row isn't fun to deal with), and Mustard proves to be an ever harder challenge than Leon with his lvl 70+ team and actually having a legendary (albeith not as broken as Hop's Zacian)

It still isn't perfect, but if you play the DLC at the two levels it's meant to, it's not as bad balance wise.

For a first attempt, I think it's okay. Knowing GameFreaks, it could have gone much worse.

So, I agree that most of Isle of Armor does seem to be a smoother experience if you take it on at it "intended" time of as soon as you get train access, though as Kurona points out this is a silly way to design an expansion 7 months after the game comes out. I will probably try this at some point though. Also to be clear I did basically play the DLC just after Leon (I did the original postgame quest but that's short) with a story team, so my team was at level.

Has anyone actually done an ASAP run of Isle of Armor, btw? I'm wondering if the final Mustard battle actually scales down. I don't see any data for it here, but this is also missing the postgame version of his first fight in the Dojo so I guess it's incomplete.

 

[R_N]

So, I agree that most of Isle of Armor does seem to be a smoother experience if you take it on at it "intended" time of as soon as you get train access, though as Kurona points out this is a silly way to design an expansion 7 months after the game comes out. I will probably try this at some point though. Also to be clear I did basically play the DLC just after Leon (I did the original postgame quest but that's short) with a story team, so my team was at level.

Has anyone actually done an ASAP run of Isle of Armor, btw? I'm wondering if the final Mustard battle actually scales down. I don't see any data for it here, but this is also missing the postgame version of his first fight in the Dojo so I guess it's incomplete.

It's not incomplete

======
321 - Dojo Master Mustard
======
Pokemon: 2
Mienfoo (Lv. 13) (Nature: Jolly) (Moves: Fake Out/U-turn/Force Palm/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30
Shinx (Lv. 13) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Bite/Spark/(None)/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30

standard...


======
416 - Dojo Master [~ 488]
======
Pokemon: 2
Mienfoo (Lv. 61) (Nature: Jolly) (Moves: Fake Out/U-turn/Force Palm/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30
Shinx (Lv. 61) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Bite/Spark/(None)/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30

Post game.

For whatever reason some of the trainers just refer to them by number isntead of name. I dunno if that's how it is in the code or how they structured it when presenting it for the pastebin

SO the final mustard battle is definitely meant to be done after everything else in the base game

 

[sb879]

It's not incomplete

======
321 - Dojo Master Mustard
======
Pokemon: 2
Mienfoo (Lv. 13) (Nature: Jolly) (Moves: Fake Out/U-turn/Force Palm/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30
Shinx (Lv. 13) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Bite/Spark/(None)/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30

standard...


======
416 - Dojo Master [~ 488]
======
Pokemon: 2
Mienfoo (Lv. 61) (Nature: Jolly) (Moves: Fake Out/U-turn/Force Palm/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30
Shinx (Lv. 61) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Bite/Spark/(None)/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30

Post game.

For whatever reason some of the trainers just refer to them by number isntead of name. I dunno if that's how it is in the code or how they structured it when presenting it for the pastebin

SO the final mustard battle is definitely meant to be done after everything else in the base game

Oops, that's what I get for searching Mustard. Well, idk, while most of the Isle of Armor is definitely smoother on a new file, this part seems kind of awkward. It would be fine I think if it "ended" on a high note before you go back to the main story, but instead the last thing you'll do here for a long time is the Max Honey quest, which is a really sour note to end on.

I'm high-key interested in a new game Isle of Armor speedrun now though

 

[Worldie]

By the way random unrelated, I noticed Lycanroc Dusk form is actually available in one raid den.

Was Dusk form legal in USUM VGC? Would it be in the SwSh one?

 

[R_N]

Oops, that's what I get for searching Mustard. Well, idk, while most of the Isle of Armor is definitely smoother on a new file, this part seems kind of awkward. It would be fine I think if it "ended" on a high note before you go back to the main story, but instead the last thing you'll do here for a long time is the Max Honey quest, which is a really sour note to end on.

I'm high-key interested in a new game Isle of Armor speedrun now though

In a "normal" run I am pretty sure the last thing that happens is Kubfu's evolution. Which I think is a nice end cap. You had a climactic climb up a tower to a kicking rad theme that doesn't tune out and at the end you get to see a taste of the Real mustard and evolve your Kubfu.

The Honey Quest I think requires beating the base game's post game. Hop is there and references researching stuff and working with Sonia, which only happens after completing the post game. Also the "boss" of that segment is a level 80 Vespiquen raid.

Assuming no other gates I think the "normal" flow is meant to be:
-Access to wild area
-Access to Isle of Armor, fight Klara
-The 3 trials
-Obtain Kubfu
-Get its happiness up
-Get it to about level 30 (likely intended that you see the recommended level, return to the main game for a bit, then come back when Kubfu is strong enough)
-Climb the tower & evolve Kubfu
-Go back & finish the main game
-Do the post game
-Go to the dojo, Max Honey quest
-Mustard's final battle

By the way random unrelated, I noticed Lycanroc Dusk form is actually available in one raid den.

Was Dusk form legal in USUM VGC? Would it be in the SwSh one?

Dusk was legal in USUM I believe.

It's pretty cool that Dusk is available in the Dens, though. I suppose if Greninja ever returns in one of these games, they'll have a way to get Battle Bond greninja eventually too (maybe a special item?)

 

[Kurona]

By the way random unrelated, I noticed Lycanroc Dusk form is actually available in one raid den.

Was Dusk form legal in USUM VGC? Would it be in the SwSh one?

Especially since it's not exactly event-exclusive anymore and it's hardly overwhelmingly powerful - hell, it even lost its Z-move if GF were scared of that - I don't see why not

 

[Yung Dramps]

On the subject of Duskanroc raids, is there any way to get Own Tempo Rockruff? What if you breed Lycanroc-Dusk?

 

[Worldie]

I suppose if Greninja ever returns in one of these games, they'll have a way to get Battle Bond greninja eventually too (maybe a special item?)

Well, for what matters, if they wanted to bring it over, they could have exactly the same method, have it available in raids and raids only as rare spawn (Lycan Dusk is 5% in regular den and 25% in purple den, with Own Tempo Rockruff being available in 3/4 star raids at 15%)

It's definitely a neat way to do it I guess.

On the subject of Duskanroc raids, is there any way to get Own Tempo Rockruff? What if you breed Lycanroc-Dusk?

You can catch it in the same den (den 156 / 157, just near the Darkness tower). Also , I did breed my Lycan dusk from USUM to give one to a friend in SwSh and it regularly spawned a Own Tempo Rockruff.
(Note that in SwSh they changed the evolution method to level up between 19:00 and 19:59, was 17 in gen 7)

 

[R_N]

On the subject of Duskanroc raids, is there any way to get Own Tempo Rockruff? What if you breed Lycanroc-Dusk?

All Dusk Lycanrocs produce Own Tempo Rockruffs, iirc.

Assuming no other gates I think the "normal" flow is meant to be:
-Access to wild area
-Access to Isle of Armor, fight Klara
-The 3 trials
-Obtain Kubfu
-Get its happiness up
-Get it to about level 30 (likely intended that you see the recommended level, return to the main game for a bit, then come back when Kubfu is strong enough)
-Climb the tower & evolve Kubfu
-Go back & finish the main game
-Do the post game
-Go to the dojo, Max Honey quest
-Mustard's final battle

Also goign back to this for a brief second after comparing some levels I think how they wanted to integrate this with the main story is approximately
-Access to wild area
-Access to Isle of Armor, fight Klara/Avery #1
-Trial 1 & 2 (Klara/Avery Fight #2)
-See Klara/Avery #3 is a higher level, return to the main story, beat Milo & Nessa
-Return and complete Trial 3
-Obtain Kubfu
-Get its happiness up to get access to the tower
-See the recommended level for the tower, return to the main story
-Beat Kabu (with your new Kubfu!)
-Cross the "new" segment of the wild area, fart around before Bea/Allister
-Get it to about Level 30
-Climb the tower & evolve Kubfu
-Finish the main game
-Do the post game
-REturn to the Dojo, start the Max Honey Quest
-Mustard's Final battle

Klara 1 is literally as soon as you get access to Wild area
Klara 2 is approximate Milo (slightly lower)
Klara 3 is approximate Nessa (slightly higher)
Kubfu's recommended base game Tower is level 30, which is higher than Kabu (25-27) and apprxoimately around the new wild area/route 6 ranges but lower than Bea's levels (~34). You can probably ocmplete Kubfu's tower at about level 25-27 itself, so you could probably ignore the Wild Area/Route 6 portion if you'd like.

Obviously the game is kind of...not really set up for this, in terms of the always on exp share and the forced exp charm and the million candy options. But that's its own, game-wide plaguing issue. Still broadly speaking you can see how they intersect.

 

[Kurona]

Yeah, Lycanroc-Dusk is a... -unique- case where it's almost like it's got a fourth ability slot? And that 'fourth' ability can be bred (in fact, you exclusively get that ability from breeding it) so yeah. Infinite Lycanroc-Dusks as far as the eye can see!

I get the feeling there's some other alternate form gimmick where the first evo is the same Pokémon as always, but the new form is completely new where they could use this ability thing to make the whole process easier? Something about a pancake surfer, a fire ghost, a fairy gentleman and a dragon palm tree? Probably not important. Probably best to just keep that evolution method exclusive to the previous gen.

 

[R_N]

Yeah, Lycanroc-Dusk is a... -unique- case where it's almost like it's got a fourth ability slot? And that 'fourth' ability can be bred (in fact, you exclusively get that ability from breeding it) so yeah. Infinite Lycanroc-Dusks as far as the eye can see!

I get the feeling there's some other alternate form gimmick where the first evo is the same Pokémon as always, but the new form is completely new where they could use this ability thing to make the whole process easier? Something about a pancake surfer, a fire ghost, a fairy gentleman and a dragon palm tree? Probably not important. Probably best to just keep that evolution method exclusive to the previous gen.

what was that? I couldn't hear you over implementing a tenth special pikachu that's exactly the same but it cant evolve and wears a hat

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Yeah, Lycanroc-Dusk is a... -unique- case where it's almost like it's got a fourth ability slot? And that 'fourth' ability can be bred (in fact, you exclusively get that ability from breeding it) so yeah. Infinite Lycanroc-Dusks as far as the eye can see!

I get the feeling there's some other alternate form gimmick where the first evo is the same Pokémon as always, but the new form is completely new where they could use this ability thing to make the whole process easier? Something about a pancake surfer, a fire ghost, a fairy gentleman and a dragon palm tree? Probably not important. Probably best to just keep that evolution method exclusive to the previous gen.

Alternatively, don't write yourself into a corner with hyperconditional stuff in the first place. Seriously, for as awesome as regional variants are for putting cool twists on old Pokemon, they're a bitch to implement into future games for no good reason. Even the ones that are effectively their own separate lineage. "It would be pretty nice to put Alolan Vulpix in this ice area, but alas, it wouldn't make sense for Alolan Vulpix to naturally be found anywhere but Alola. Anyway, let's put Kantonian Sandshrew in the desert area."

 

[R_N]

Alternatively, don't write yourself into a corner with hyperconditional stuff in the first place. Seriously, for as awesome as regional variants are for putting cool twists on old Pokemon, they're a bitch to implement into future games for no good reason. Even the ones that are effectively their own separate lineage. "It would be pretty nice to put Alolan Vulpix in this ice area, but alas, it wouldn't make sense for Alolan Vulpix to naturally be found anywhere but Alola. Anyway, let's put Kantonian Sandshrew in the desert area."

It really bugs me that they now call the "original" Kanto variants by "Kantonian". This does, at least, not follow through to the Pokedex (the originals are unmarked while the regional variants are <Region> Form) but it's very awkward when SM made a point to not do that. And iirc they dont throw around "Johtoian" or "Hoennian" or whatever for the others. But Mr Mime and such are referred to in-text as "Kantonian". Nothing wrong with just saying "A Mr Mime I found in the Kanto region"!

 

[Kanburi]

And so it is done. Glad I was able to contribute with 0. We are currently at 1 Shiny Zeraora and 4 Armorites. Keep going everyone!

Zeraora and the Armorites will be available on the mobile version of Home for a week starting June 30th 9am JST.

 

[Siggu]

And so it is done. Glad I was able to contribute with 0. We are currently at 1 Shiny Zeraora and 4 Armorites. Keep going everyone!

With this it's my second mythical Pokémon that I can get without hoping that someone from another country can lend me a code.

T_T

 

[PokePoindexter]

I defeated about 20 Zeraora, and cussed at about 20 more when I got blown out of the den because of how fucking cheap the bastards were ("cheap" as in so ungodly strong that it could wipe out 3-4 mons on a team at one time, mind you).

 

[Matleo]

our new legendary Urshifu bears are like Lucario or Zoroark

 

[R_N]

I love these recent give aways for really emphasizing how stupidly convoluted the process is for no damn reason
Boot up Switch Home, deposit a pokemon, save & quit
Boot up Mobile Home, redeem the mystery gift, save & quit
Boot up Switch Home again to actually move the gift back to SWSH

multiple people suggested this is how it should work, approved how it should work and implemented how it should work, then decided to continue doing events in this way moving forward

 

[Count Bleck]

I want to point out that Mustard seems to imply he knows something we don't after his final battle. Something about being ready for when the time comes, to which the player responds with a question mark. Is mustard gonna play a role in the Tundra?

 

[Siggu]

I love these recent give aways for really emphasizing how stupidly convoluted the process is for no damn reason
Boot up Switch Home, deposit a pokemon, save & quit
Boot up Mobile Home, redeem the mystery gift, save & quit
Boot up Switch Home again to actually move the gift back to SWSH

multiple people suggested this is how it should work, approved how it should work and implemented how it should work, then decided to continue doing events in this way moving forward

I could guess their logic was that, since the event started with the DLC, players were going to move Pokémon between HOME and Sword/Shield anyways, so it only really requires three logins in a row if you don't have the DLC.

It still could have been done better, of course.

 

[R_N]

I could guess their logic was that, since the event started with the DLC, players were going to move Pokémon between HOME and Sword/Shield anyways, so it only really requires three logins in a row if you don't have the DLC.

It still could have been done better, of course.

three logins too many
just put it on mystery gift like a normal event!
or let the switch version have mystery gift??

 

[SamuraiCelebi]

three logins too many
just put it on mystery gift like a normal event!
or let the switch version have mystery gift??

As someone who doesn't have a mobile phone, I really wish this was a Mystery Gift prize for SWSH.
I'm really bummed that I can't get a Shiny Zeraora, and I DID contribute to clearing some of the Zeraora raids!