Not yet, but I wouldn't expect any news about before we can actually datamine the game, as it's a mythical
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SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
why do people keep calling it physical fire blast when it has 120 bp
this isn't gen V
I feel like we're going to get a lot of mileage out of this.
Do the speculation meta crew have any answers to this? Lv. 0 D-Max adds 50% HP, lv. 10 likely means 200% HP. With a damage reduction berry to ward off random TBolts, Gyara doesn't look like a mon you can just casually OHKO before it gets going.
Half a year ago, I wrote down a small wish list for gen 8. What I wanted was for Bug finally having access to Trick Room since I like Monotype and VGC, and having a little bit more variety never hurts. I theorized that for my wish to happen, we probably need a Bug/Ghost or Bug/Psychic Pkm. Looks like my wish finally came true in the form of Orbeetle.
I must admit I wasn't really impressed by its stats as it faced tough competition from some Quiver Dance user like Frosmoth. Though, design wise, it does look intriguing in my eyes.
Anyway, when I looked at Orbeetle's stats again, I realized that not only could it have access to Trick Room, it's also probably bulky enough to pull it off in a double battle, especially one geared towards monotype. If it gets some nice support moves like Follow Me--it certainly looks like as if it could pull it off--I'm certainly sold on it. It even has solid partners in Vikavolt, Escavalier, and Araquanid, the latter being able to protect you from Rock Slide and Heat Wave through Wide Guard. If you fear a fast and strong fire, dark, or flying Pkm, well, there's Accelgor's Final Gambit to deal with that. It also allows you to safely send out one of your slow Pkm when Trick Room is active.
If Orbeetle gets Psychic Terrain, that's even better because aside from a self-imposed monotype double battle, many players would want to have it on their team to prevent Fake Out in VGC in general. If that's not enough for you, you have some strong Psychic Pkm in Reuniclus, Gigamax Hatterene, Gardevoir, and, maybe, even Mr.Rime, all of them being slow or somewhat slow.
On another note, I might sound like a broken record, but I'm still not over Coalossal. I really like the basic Pkm, but aside from Coalossal's bulk, I'm not really sold on its attack stats, unless it gets Huge Power (though, that might be too much) or, what is more probable between the two, Sheer Force. Nidoking is a nice wallbreaker although its SpA isn't very high. While Coalossal might not have Nidoking's insane movepool, with its stats, something like Heatwave, Earthpower, or Rock Slide should suffice for VGC. Resisting fairy is always nice, and with the right support, water and ground moves from opposing Pkm shouldn't be much of a problem.
I must admit I wasn't really impressed by its stats as it faced tough competition from some Quiver Dance user like Frosmoth. Though, design wise, it does look intriguing in my eyes.
Anyway, when I looked at Orbeetle's stats again, I realized that not only could it have access to Trick Room, it's also probably bulky enough to pull it off in a double battle, especially one geared towards monotype. If it gets some nice support moves like Follow Me--it certainly looks like as if it could pull it off--I'm certainly sold on it. It even has solid partners in Vikavolt, Escavalier, and Araquanid, the latter being able to protect you from Rock Slide and Heat Wave through Wide Guard. If you fear a fast and strong fire, dark, or flying Pkm, well, there's Accelgor's Final Gambit to deal with that. It also allows you to safely send out one of your slow Pkm when Trick Room is active.
If Orbeetle gets Psychic Terrain, that's even better because aside from a self-imposed monotype double battle, many players would want to have it on their team to prevent Fake Out in VGC in general. If that's not enough for you, you have some strong Psychic Pkm in Reuniclus, Gigamax Hatterene, Gardevoir, and, maybe, even Mr.Rime, all of them being slow or somewhat slow.
On another note, I might sound like a broken record, but I'm still not over Coalossal. I really like the basic Pkm, but aside from Coalossal's bulk, I'm not really sold on its attack stats, unless it gets Huge Power (though, that might be too much) or, what is more probable between the two, Sheer Force. Nidoking is a nice wallbreaker although its SpA isn't very high. While Coalossal might not have Nidoking's insane movepool, with its stats, something like Heatwave, Earthpower, or Rock Slide should suffice for VGC. Resisting fairy is always nice, and with the right support, water and ground moves from opposing Pkm shouldn't be much of a problem.
How do we know that they can have an item AND dynamax? To dynamax, don’t they need to be able to (do it) and have a crystal? Such as the mega evolution? Your Pokémon has to be able to mega evolve, and you have to have the Mega Ring and the stone. So the crystal (that they have to hold) will take up their item space. Thus making it so it (the Pokémon) is not tooooo powerful while in the dynamax mode.
I've added the currently known TM/TR List to the doc in the 2nd post. Let me know if there are any mistakes / missing ones.
TMs:
TRs:
| Giga Drain |
| Breaking Swipe |
| Mystical Fire |
| Razor Shell |
| Bounce |
| Fling |
| Self-Destruct |
| Imprison |
| Trick Room |
| Magical Leaf |
| Rock Slide |
| Snore |
| Steel Wing |
| Whirlpool |
| Will-O-Wisp |
| Swift |
| Rock Tomb |
| Sand Tomb |
| Icicle Spear |
| Rock Blast |
| U-turn |
| Retaliate |
| Snarl |
| Draining Kiss |
| Smart Strike |
| Brutal Swing |
TRs:
| Dragon Dance |
| Toxic Spikes |
| Stone Edge |
| Foul Play |
| Scald |
| Darkest Lariat |
| Skill Swap |
| Focus Blast |
| Low Kick |
| Stored Power |
| Agility |
| Heat Wave |
| Heavy Slam |
| Thunderbolt |
| Ice Beam |
| Baton Pass |
| Dragon Claw |
| Power Whip |
| Body Slam |
| Shadow Ball |
| Swords Dance |
| Poison Jab |
| Dazzling Gleam |
| Close Combat |
| Endure |
| Leaf Blade |
| Nasty Plot |
| Sludge Bomb |
| Superpower |
| Power Gem |
| Blizzard |
| Uproar |
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Bruh, Gyarados is already one of the best mons in the speculatory meta, above even the S Rank. All it needs is one Dragon Dance a lot of the time to tear apart entire teams. Idk how Dynamax levels will affect it specifically, but once SWSH OU really gets into the swing of things expect a suspect test early on, or at least hope for one.
I really hope that Orbeetle's stats are on the higher end of the ones in the spreadsheet. Bug/Psychic has some awful weaknesses, but some very nice resists too-Quad resisting Fighting is always good, and resisting Ground, Psychic, and Grass is also quite nice. If this thing gets a good supporting movepool, solid secondary/hidden ability, and Roost, it could really have an actual solid niche. Amusingly, it could wall Mega Medicham.
Thought as much. It might actually get the hammer.
Earlier I thought, “So many people are so mad about the Dexit situation, and other than what GF claims, why else would they cut that many”? After thinking about it for a bit, I came up with the conclusion of.... Regions. What I mean is, of course if you play Red/Blue, you only ever see gen 1 Pokémon, well the obvious answer is because, duh, they hadn’t created the future ones. But, it could ALSO be because of the regional distance, thus, with this information, we could create a WHOLE map. And you may ask, “oh but how come you didn’t see the future gens in the past, compared to seeing the past ones in the future”? well..... because time, and when they (the Pokémon) were created. Idk. Just a thought to throw out there.
Every Pokemon can Dynamax. It gets extra HP and its moves change into Max Moves. Max Moves seem to be less powerful than Z-Moves (I think I saw someone say 120-160BP) and each Max Move has a unique effect (setting weather/terrain, stat changes). Certain Pokemon of certain species can Gigantamax, which gives a bigger boost than Dynamaxing and a unique model. Each Gigantamax Pokemongets a unique G-Max Move, which like Max Moves will transform normal moves of a specific type.
The only "item" needed to Dynamax/Gigantamax is whatever bracelet wearable the player-character trainer gets during the story. As far as I know, nothing has been said/announced about items and Dynamax apart from an item isn't needed. I would assume held items are used as normal. but some others have suggested/wished that items can't be used while in Dynamax form. We'll either have to wait for the leaker to tell us or for the games to come out to find out for sure.
I'd argue that we would. It's pretty clear that GF didn't like mechanics mixing, as we can see by Rayquaza's inability to mega evolve while holding a z-crystal. It should be easy enough to say that pokemon holding a mega stone or z-crystal cannot dynamax, at least in my head. That would also prevent a LOT of headaches while allowing inclusion.
A quick note about the spreadsheet. I've had a few requests from people to have access to it (for viewing I'm assuming). If you are using a privatized email system, such as a @SCHOOLNAME.edu or the like, they may have set it so that you may not be able to view outside documents from it. I've tried to give viewing permissions to those, but it does not seem like I can do anything on my end.
It's also worth noting that Crowned Zacian will hit twice as hard on Dynamaxes with its signature move. So "Band Zacian hits harder" isn't necessarily true.
Not to mention Fake Out for VGC. Grimmsnarl looks really nice, which is good to see.
Confirmed, but we can't get any images because it requires trades.
All of the Galarian formes are already discovered, but we don't all of their stats because some are version exclusive, like Sirfetch'd.
Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed. 
I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
I feel like if phazing didn't work they would've said so by now. They did mention flinching not working, and phazing seems like an even bigger thing to mention if Dynamaxed mons are immune.Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed.
I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
we already know fake out and flinching in general do not work on dyna/gigantamax pokemon so I don’t really see why red card and phazing move would work. it feels like GF is trying to make it so the 3 turns of dynamax can’t be cheesed or stalled out.Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed.
I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
They're most certainly Gen 7, but I wouldn't be surprised if they show up in the post-400s along with Mew. Seems a missed opp to put them in only a remake before banishing them, I say brushing the USUM Pokemon under the carpet.
While Natdex discussion really doesn't belong here and I'm against making it official anyway, I'd like to argue one thing. I believe that the Mega and Z-move removal is entirely independent of Dexit.
First off megas have led to some really fucky powercreep - I believe there's only Audino left in RU? (Not up to date with lower tiers.) So I suppose it was time for them to die anyway, and while I hate Dexit with all my heart, I'm glad the SAtk benchmark for viability is no longer around 150.
Generally when GF introduces a new mechanic, they abandon old ones to shift the focus. Now megas had the problem of being a fan favourite by practically being 50 completely new mons, so GF squeezed them into Gen 7 because they were mutually exclusive with Z-moves anyway. But allowing an interaction between Mega evolution and Dynamax? I honestly can't imagine that, neither how the exact mechanics would make sense nor how they would ever balance that. And G-maxing changes everything: Charizard is the living proof that it's impossible for a mon to go mega and D-/G-Max at the same time. I highly doubt GF would implement some shit like "Zard can G-max before mega but not after" (especially since there's probably only 1 place to put that button, like for Mega Raquayquay). Nor would it make sense to specifically ban maxing if something holds a Mega stone, as it works with literally any other item. All these possibilities are absurd - GF most likely decided to kill Megas the moment they came up with Dynamaxing.
Now, if the playerbase really wants to make Natdex the default OU mode (which likely won't happen, we will all get used to the loss of our loved ones, and we will be happy about the loss of Landorus) - if it does happen, please please let it happen without some fucky spaghetti interactions that never existed, and were never meant to exist, in Gen 8 with or without Dexit. Let's have a Natdex meta without Megas and Z-moves. Don't worry, HDB on certain mons that were supposed to be balanced by hazards will already give us enough powercreep. Coding arbitrary interactions would strike me as no different than a "GEN 3 BUT WITH FAIRY AND P/S SPLIT AND HBEAM RESET!!!1!" petmod. Let's not do that.
First off megas have led to some really fucky powercreep - I believe there's only Audino left in RU? (Not up to date with lower tiers.) So I suppose it was time for them to die anyway, and while I hate Dexit with all my heart, I'm glad the SAtk benchmark for viability is no longer around 150.
Generally when GF introduces a new mechanic, they abandon old ones to shift the focus. Now megas had the problem of being a fan favourite by practically being 50 completely new mons, so GF squeezed them into Gen 7 because they were mutually exclusive with Z-moves anyway. But allowing an interaction between Mega evolution and Dynamax? I honestly can't imagine that, neither how the exact mechanics would make sense nor how they would ever balance that. And G-maxing changes everything: Charizard is the living proof that it's impossible for a mon to go mega and D-/G-Max at the same time. I highly doubt GF would implement some shit like "Zard can G-max before mega but not after" (especially since there's probably only 1 place to put that button, like for Mega Raquayquay). Nor would it make sense to specifically ban maxing if something holds a Mega stone, as it works with literally any other item. All these possibilities are absurd - GF most likely decided to kill Megas the moment they came up with Dynamaxing.
Now, if the playerbase really wants to make Natdex the default OU mode (which likely won't happen, we will all get used to the loss of our loved ones, and we will be happy about the loss of Landorus) - if it does happen, please please let it happen without some fucky spaghetti interactions that never existed, and were never meant to exist, in Gen 8 with or without Dexit. Let's have a Natdex meta without Megas and Z-moves. Don't worry, HDB on certain mons that were supposed to be balanced by hazards will already give us enough powercreep. Coding arbitrary interactions would strike me as no different than a "GEN 3 BUT WITH FAIRY AND P/S SPLIT AND HBEAM RESET!!!1!" petmod. Let's not do that.
I can see it going both ways but I hope they do allow it. It would just add a lot of counterplay to some of the more ridiculous dmax pokemon like Gyarados dragon dancing and setting up his own rain etc. But it makes sense if flinching doesn't work, protect doesn't fully work, that they would've addressed phazing too.
Mr. Rime is certainly disappointing, but a little more bulk, still decent speed and probably nasty plot and what I can only assume is easy boltbeam confirmation...home boy might have some scarf or set up potential.
Grimsnarl being confirmed to get prankster bulk up is...a lot
Grimsnarl being confirmed to get prankster bulk up is...a lot
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I realise I´m way late to the party, but I´d still like to share some of my thoughts and opinions about the designs anyway.
Overall, I´m pretty mixed about the new pokemon. like any generation, there are both good and bad designs, obviously. However, what I noticed about this gen´s designs is that a lot of them are both good and bad at the same time. A lot of designs I almost like, if that makes sense.
I think Galarian Rapidash is a good Example. The devs got many things right about the design, mainly the main body and the colour scheme. However, they ruined it for me with the details of the head. Its nose and jaw aren´t sharp like the original Rapidash, but more rounded and almost swollen-looking instead, and the shape of its eyelid gives it an annoyed or condescending expression. It just doesn´t look majestic at all. When your unicorn pokemon looks more like a My Little Pony OC reject than a majestic, dreamy horse, you've done something wrong. If they just put original-Rapidash' head on the new galarian form, it would look much better already. I'm also a bit sad that it doesn't have the more poofy hair like ponyta.
Another example of this sloppyness is the hard transition from green to yellow on Appletuns body, which looks a bit ugly imo. Also the fossils... just in general. The bright, clashing colours and weird patterns make the t-rex ones utterly bizar and out of place. The starters also stand out as particularly bad this time around, Intelleon even more particularly. All of these pokemon have a decent concept, but with a lackluster execution.
Some other pokemon have another problem where they look too much like thing they take their design inspiration from. The best example of this is dragapult, which is quite literally a jet plane with a face on it and a dragon's body dangling below it. Now, there's nothing wrong with a pokemon being based on a jet plane, but the execution here is just very unsubtle. If you compare it to Garchomp, a dragon that also heavily resembles a jet, the difference becomes clear. Garchomp's execution is just a lot more subtle, which makes the design less goofy and one-dimensional, and more badass, suiting for a pseudo legendary. Another example is Stonejourner, which is quite literally just stonehenge with a face on it. It makes me question why that concept even had to be a pokemon in the first place. It's just so forced to me, like gamefreak thinks that we expect stonehenge to be in the game in some way, so they just make it a pokemon since that's in the name of the game after all. If GF can't be bothered to do something interesting with the concept, I'd rather them not even try. Stonehenge could have easily been a location instead of a pokemon.
For every lackluster design, there is also a good design, so I'd like to end with some positive opinions. I think that the bugs are especially good in this gen. I mostly pin this on the fact that all three have unique typings wich lends itself well to unique designs as well. I wish we would have gotten more pokemon with interesting typings, rather than all of the monotype, judging from how well typings seemed to positively affect the bugs' design. Dubwool, Corviknight and Toxtricity also left a good impression on me.
Another thing I really like is how GF finally seems to understand how to make stat distributions that make sense. Most of the pokemon we have some info on have good distribtions for their role and typing. There are some exceptions like Galarian Mr. Mime and Coalossal, which seem to have pretty weird statlines, but on the whole It seems like they leared from the hot mess that was gen 7.
Overall, I´m pretty mixed about the new pokemon. like any generation, there are both good and bad designs, obviously. However, what I noticed about this gen´s designs is that a lot of them are both good and bad at the same time. A lot of designs I almost like, if that makes sense.
I think Galarian Rapidash is a good Example. The devs got many things right about the design, mainly the main body and the colour scheme. However, they ruined it for me with the details of the head. Its nose and jaw aren´t sharp like the original Rapidash, but more rounded and almost swollen-looking instead, and the shape of its eyelid gives it an annoyed or condescending expression. It just doesn´t look majestic at all. When your unicorn pokemon looks more like a My Little Pony OC reject than a majestic, dreamy horse, you've done something wrong. If they just put original-Rapidash' head on the new galarian form, it would look much better already. I'm also a bit sad that it doesn't have the more poofy hair like ponyta.
Another example of this sloppyness is the hard transition from green to yellow on Appletuns body, which looks a bit ugly imo. Also the fossils... just in general. The bright, clashing colours and weird patterns make the t-rex ones utterly bizar and out of place. The starters also stand out as particularly bad this time around, Intelleon even more particularly. All of these pokemon have a decent concept, but with a lackluster execution.
Some other pokemon have another problem where they look too much like thing they take their design inspiration from. The best example of this is dragapult, which is quite literally a jet plane with a face on it and a dragon's body dangling below it. Now, there's nothing wrong with a pokemon being based on a jet plane, but the execution here is just very unsubtle. If you compare it to Garchomp, a dragon that also heavily resembles a jet, the difference becomes clear. Garchomp's execution is just a lot more subtle, which makes the design less goofy and one-dimensional, and more badass, suiting for a pseudo legendary. Another example is Stonejourner, which is quite literally just stonehenge with a face on it. It makes me question why that concept even had to be a pokemon in the first place. It's just so forced to me, like gamefreak thinks that we expect stonehenge to be in the game in some way, so they just make it a pokemon since that's in the name of the game after all. If GF can't be bothered to do something interesting with the concept, I'd rather them not even try. Stonehenge could have easily been a location instead of a pokemon.
For every lackluster design, there is also a good design, so I'd like to end with some positive opinions. I think that the bugs are especially good in this gen. I mostly pin this on the fact that all three have unique typings wich lends itself well to unique designs as well. I wish we would have gotten more pokemon with interesting typings, rather than all of the monotype, judging from how well typings seemed to positively affect the bugs' design. Dubwool, Corviknight and Toxtricity also left a good impression on me.
Another thing I really like is how GF finally seems to understand how to make stat distributions that make sense. Most of the pokemon we have some info on have good distribtions for their role and typing. There are some exceptions like Galarian Mr. Mime and Coalossal, which seem to have pretty weird statlines, but on the whole It seems like they leared from the hot mess that was gen 7.