SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword & Shield Pre-Release SPOILERS - Check Post 2!

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
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Orange Islands
I know we're just sitting around waiting for more leaks and for the game to finally release, but I don't think this thread is the place to discuss the logistics and importance of National Dex OU. When the thread in the OM or OU subforum gets fully set up, then you can write down your opinions and debate on the legality of Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves. This thread is for leaks of the real game, not for the fan-made "complete" metagame.
Just want to point out this is pretty much whats going on. Discussions are currently ongoing about what we will do about a "National Dex" type meta. First priority is Galar Dex OU. There are a LOT of issues which need to be worked out for "crashing metas" in this way.

Either way, wait for official news on what those things might be. I would stick to speculation about the Galar Dex OU rather than anything else (oh and for gods sake stop commenting about Aegislash).
 
I know we're just sitting around waiting for more leaks and for the game to finally release, but I don't think this thread is the place to discuss the logistics and importance of National Dex OU. When the thread in the OM or OU subforum gets fully set up, then you can write down your opinions and debate on the legality of Mega Evolutions and Z-Moves. This thread is for leaks of the real game, not for the fan-made "complete" metagame.
Agreed, make a separate thread for it IMO. Sick of seeing it!

Personally cant wait for the game to drop, my first since B/W. I think the smaller format will reduce some of the bloat the series has accrued. I think the QoL changes will make it a lot more accessible for casual players like myself who dont really have time to grind.
 

Moutemoute

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By the way guys, there isn't any news about Meltan / Melmetan ? Those Pokemon were supposed to be part of 8th gen right ?
 
Half a year ago, I wrote down a small wish list for gen 8. What I wanted was for Bug finally having access to Trick Room since I like Monotype and VGC, and having a little bit more variety never hurts. I theorized that for my wish to happen, we probably need a Bug/Ghost or Bug/Psychic Pkm. Looks like my wish finally came true in the form of Orbeetle.

I must admit I wasn't really impressed by its stats as it faced tough competition from some Quiver Dance user like Frosmoth. Though, design wise, it does look intriguing in my eyes.

Anyway, when I looked at Orbeetle's stats again, I realized that not only could it have access to Trick Room, it's also probably bulky enough to pull it off in a double battle, especially one geared towards monotype. If it gets some nice support moves like Follow Me--it certainly looks like as if it could pull it off--I'm certainly sold on it. It even has solid partners in Vikavolt, Escavalier, and Araquanid, the latter being able to protect you from Rock Slide and Heat Wave through Wide Guard. If you fear a fast and strong fire, dark, or flying Pkm, well, there's Accelgor's Final Gambit to deal with that. It also allows you to safely send out one of your slow Pkm when Trick Room is active.

If Orbeetle gets Psychic Terrain, that's even better because aside from a self-imposed monotype double battle, many players would want to have it on their team to prevent Fake Out in VGC in general. If that's not enough for you, you have some strong Psychic Pkm in Reuniclus, Gigamax Hatterene, Gardevoir, and, maybe, even Mr.Rime, all of them being slow or somewhat slow.

On another note, I might sound like a broken record, but I'm still not over Coalossal. I really like the basic Pkm, but aside from Coalossal's bulk, I'm not really sold on its attack stats, unless it gets Huge Power (though, that might be too much) or, what is more probable between the two, Sheer Force. Nidoking is a nice wallbreaker although its SpA isn't very high. While Coalossal might not have Nidoking's insane movepool, with its stats, something like Heatwave, Earthpower, or Rock Slide should suffice for VGC. Resisting fairy is always nice, and with the right support, water and ground moves from opposing Pkm shouldn't be much of a problem.
 
x'DDD

Ok Ok I'll put the full conversation here.

Some pages ago, someone asked if a Pokémon's item will still function while the Pokemon is in Dynamax mode. I answer him "it should, otherwise what would be the point in allowing you to equip items AND dynamax at the same time". That was it x'D
How do we know that they can have an item AND dynamax? To dynamax, don’t they need to be able to (do it) and have a crystal? Such as the mega evolution? Your Pokémon has to be able to mega evolve, and you have to have the Mega Ring and the stone. So the crystal (that they have to hold) will take up their item space. Thus making it so it (the Pokémon) is not tooooo powerful while in the dynamax mode.
 

Blitzamirin

360 no scope
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I've added the currently known TM/TR List to the doc in the 2nd post. Let me know if there are any mistakes / missing ones.

TMs:

Giga Drain
Breaking Swipe
Mystical Fire
Razor Shell
Bounce
Fling
Self-Destruct
Imprison
Trick Room
Magical Leaf
Rock Slide
Snore
Steel Wing
Whirlpool
Will-O-Wisp
Swift
Rock Tomb
Sand Tomb
Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
U-turn
Retaliate
Snarl
Draining Kiss
Smart Strike
Brutal Swing

TRs:

Dragon Dance
Toxic Spikes
Stone Edge
Foul Play
Scald
Darkest Lariat
Skill Swap
Focus Blast
Low Kick
Stored Power
Agility
Heat Wave
Heavy Slam
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Baton Pass
Dragon Claw
Power Whip
Body Slam
Shadow Ball
Swords Dance
Poison Jab
Dazzling Gleam
Close Combat
Endure
Leaf Blade
Nasty Plot
Sludge Bomb
Superpower
Power Gem
Blizzard
Uproar
 
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I feel like we're going to get a lot of mileage out of this.

Do the speculation meta crew have any answers to this? Lv. 0 D-Max adds 50% HP, lv. 10 likely means 200% HP. With a damage reduction berry to ward off random TBolts, Gyara doesn't look like a mon you can just casually OHKO before it gets going.
Bruh, Gyarados is already one of the best mons in the speculatory meta, above even the S Rank. All it needs is one Dragon Dance a lot of the time to tear apart entire teams. Idk how Dynamax levels will affect it specifically, but once SWSH OU really gets into the swing of things expect a suspect test early on, or at least hope for one.
 
Half a year ago, I wrote down a small wish list for gen 8. What I wanted was for Bug finally having access to Trick Room since I like Monotype and VGC, and having a little bit more variety never hurts. I theorized that for my wish to happen, we probably need a Bug/Ghost or Bug/Psychic Pkm. Looks like my wish finally came true in the form of Orbeetle.

I must admit I wasn't really impressed by its stats as it faced tough competition from some Quiver Dance user like Frosmoth. Though, design wise, it does look intriguing in my eyes.

Anyway, when I looked at Orbeetle's stats again, I realized that not only could it have access to Trick Room, it's also probably bulky enough to pull it off in a double battle, especially one geared towards monotype.
I really hope that Orbeetle's stats are on the higher end of the ones in the spreadsheet. Bug/Psychic has some awful weaknesses, but some very nice resists too-Quad resisting Fighting is always good, and resisting Ground, Psychic, and Grass is also quite nice. If this thing gets a good supporting movepool, solid secondary/hidden ability, and Roost, it could really have an actual solid niche. Amusingly, it could wall Mega Medicham.
 
Bruh, Gyarados is already one of the best mons in the speculatory meta, above even the S Rank. All it needs is one Dragon Dance a lot of the time to tear apart entire teams. Idk how Dynamax levels will affect it specifically, but once SWSH OU really gets into the swing of things expect a suspect test early on, or at least hope for one.
Thought as much. It might actually get the hammer.
 
Earlier I thought, “So many people are so mad about the Dexit situation, and other than what GF claims, why else would they cut that many”? After thinking about it for a bit, I came up with the conclusion of.... Regions. What I mean is, of course if you play Red/Blue, you only ever see gen 1 Pokémon, well the obvious answer is because, duh, they hadn’t created the future ones. But, it could ALSO be because of the regional distance, thus, with this information, we could create a WHOLE map. And you may ask, “oh but how come you didn’t see the future gens in the past, compared to seeing the past ones in the future”? well..... because time, and when they (the Pokémon) were created. Idk. Just a thought to throw out there.
 
How do we know that they can have an item AND dynamax? To dynamax, don’t they need to be able to (do it) and have a crystal? Such as the mega evolution? Your Pokémon has to be able to mega evolve, and you have to have the Mega Ring and the stone. So the crystal (that they have to hold) will take up their item space. Thus making it so it (the Pokémon) is not tooooo powerful while in the dynamax mode.
Every Pokemon can Dynamax. It gets extra HP and its moves change into Max Moves. Max Moves seem to be less powerful than Z-Moves (I think I saw someone say 120-160BP) and each Max Move has a unique effect (setting weather/terrain, stat changes). Certain Pokemon of certain species can Gigantamax, which gives a bigger boost than Dynamaxing and a unique model. Each Gigantamax Pokemongets a unique G-Max Move, which like Max Moves will transform normal moves of a specific type.

The only "item" needed to Dynamax/Gigantamax is whatever bracelet wearable the player-character trainer gets during the story. As far as I know, nothing has been said/announced about items and Dynamax apart from an item isn't needed. I would assume held items are used as normal. but some others have suggested/wished that items can't be used while in Dynamax form. We'll either have to wait for the leaker to tell us or for the games to come out to find out for sure.
 
This might be naive, but my two cents is that the basis of Smogon metas should follow what's possible to attain in SwSh and any future add-ons (but still have ban lists and such). But we should not create a meta around "a best-guess what a national dex would be like."

We don't know now iirc, and we may not know for a relatively long time, what the in-game rules would be concerning dMax/gMax in relation to those that hold mega or z stones.

However I concede there could be a large consensus that there should be a nDex meta with all previous items except for z/mega stones.

Something to consider, is that there's a decent chance that GameFreak chose the available items and pokemon to keep the potential brokenness of Maxing in a relatively controllable manner. Practically speaking, this is much more likely than "Gamefreak does things randomly and rashly, etc." .

So having a nDex meta could just totally destroy any semblance of a balance around Maxing, and Maxing might be banned as a mechanic without it actually being in a 'fair' scenario.
I'd argue that we would. It's pretty clear that GF didn't like mechanics mixing, as we can see by Rayquaza's inability to mega evolve while holding a z-crystal. It should be easy enough to say that pokemon holding a mega stone or z-crystal cannot dynamax, at least in my head. That would also prevent a LOT of headaches while allowing inclusion.
 

Ditto

/me huggles
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A quick note about the spreadsheet. I've had a few requests from people to have access to it (for viewing I'm assuming). If you are using a privatized email system, such as a @SCHOOLNAME.edu or the like, they may have set it so that you may not be able to view outside documents from it. I've tried to give viewing permissions to those, but it does not seem like I can do anything on my end.
 
Yes, calcs are for Sword Zacian. Base Band Zacian is probably gonna hit harder than Sword Zacian anyway, unless Sword Zacian gets ridiculous Atk. The merits of running Rusted Sword however is access to one of the best typings in the game, which would ease potential setup and checking prowess tremendously.
It's also worth noting that Crowned Zacian will hit twice as hard on Dynamaxes with its signature move. So "Band Zacian hits harder" isn't necessarily true.
 
So can we talk about prankster Grimmsnarl again? Because that thing also gets a g max move. It can sub, gigantimax, then do whatever nefarious deeds it wants. It can also taunt, bulk up, and has a pretty scary offensive typing to boot. Defenitely something i want to keep a close eye on...
Not to mention Fake Out for VGC. Grimmsnarl looks really nice, which is good to see.
 
Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed. :psysad:

I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
 
Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed. :psysad:

I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
I feel like if phazing didn't work they would've said so by now. They did mention flinching not working, and phazing seems like an even bigger thing to mention if Dynamaxed mons are immune.
 
Apparently I joined this forum 10 years ago...so much life has passed. :psysad:

I haven't seen much discussion oh phazing out Dynamaxed pokemon. Do Roar/Whirlwind/Red Card work? I'm already seeing myself have a Red Card Pokemon on my teams just to troll anyone trying to get too crazy. It could be worth it to neutralize their dynamax while still having yours to use later.
we already know fake out and flinching in general do not work on dyna/gigantamax pokemon so I don’t really see why red card and phazing move would work. it feels like GF is trying to make it so the 3 turns of dynamax can’t be cheesed or stalled out.
 

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