Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

Pujo

Gator l'alligator
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- +1 speed allows you to outright win much more than outrage does.
- strong dragon stab is rarely a necessity. EQ hits everything really hard anyways, edge hits the flying types.
- chomp has great physical bulk so even at -1, it will survive almost all neutral physical hits
- I wouldn't call 90% accuracy "inaccurate". Lets just run rock slide instead of edge on everything then.

It doesnt need to replace outrage, but the sheer utility of +1 speed is undeniable, especially since chomp sits at a decent speed tier and will outspeed everything except the fastest scarfers. after an sd, SS will kill alot of neutral targets with slight chip, even if it gets lower hits and then ur a +2 attack +1 speed demon machine that either forces a dmax or wins on the spot. normal SD chomp gets outspeed by so much and ruins its potential as a breaker
Hi! Randbats @ and sets discussions contributor here.
I used to think Scale Shot was almost mandatory on Garchomp but truth is, it's not a good move at all in a format where Atk EVs aren't maxed out.
• You will find yourself struggling to get KOs in a lot of situations; for example, a +2 Scale Shot from Garchomp only has a slight chance to 2HKO Mew with 3 hits, where Outrage has a chance to OHKO after Stealth Rocks.
• Having a strong Dragon STAB is extremely good in Random Battles, simply because as opposed to a well-built team in a regular tier, Random Battle teams don't always have a Dragon resist, let alone an immunity. Switching into Garchomp will be much easier if the threat of being hit by a Dragon-type move doesn't exist because of Scale Shot pathetic's base power and shaky accuracy (I mean, 90% Acc for a 60ish BP move? yikes).
• The matter of Chomp living neutral physical moves at -1 is a good point... but that's just not a good argument at all. For example, a Choice Scarf Zapdos-Galar has a 23.4% chance to 2HKO regular Garchomp with either Brave Bird or Close Combat, while it always 2HKOs a -1 Garchomp (even if Chomp gets the -1 after Zapdos' first hit). Let's not forget that a +1 Chomp will be slower than a lot of Scarf users, including the aformentioned Zapdos-Galar.
• Going back to the accuracy thing, the debate of Stone Edge vs. Rock Slide is extremely different from the Scale Shot vs. Outrage. On one hand, you have a 100 BP move with 80% Acc, and a 75 BP move with 90% Acc; the drawback of having 10% less accuracy on Edge is outweighted by the much higher BP. In our case, you have a 90% Accurate move with a shaky BP because you're more often than not going to get 2 or 3 hits, vs a 120 BP 100 Acc move, so sure, 90% isn't inaccurate, but it makes the move even less reliable.

I hope you understand our point and this has been a debate for months really, but in the end Scale Shot is 100% worse than Outrage in this format. Have a nice day! :]
 
I would like to talk about... Lickilicky.

I just got, in a fight, a banded Lickilicky (knock off, explosion, body slam, EQ) with Oblivious. I noticed it after my opponent used Taunt on it.

Oblivious is obviously fantastic on SD or Support Lickilicky sets. However, on a banded set? Its only use is against Lopunny, the sole Cute Charm carrier in randbats. I noticed it was the only ability that Lickilicky can get.

Forgive me if I mix things up (don't remember if abilities are always generated before or after the movesets), but to my understanding, certain abilities can be associated with a specific moveset or previously generated teammates (i.e. sand rush on excadrill if a teammate generated before it has sand stream, or if it has a rock type move).

Given that, there would be zero reason to not have Own Tempo over Oblivious for banded sets. Both block intimidate, and Own Tempo has the benefits of preventing confusing, which is far more likely to happen (hurricane, strange steam, dynamic punch, water pulse, gmax smite...) than infatuation from lopunny.

Cloud Nine could also be more useful, preventing Lickilicky from being outsped by opponents whose speed is boosted by weather if it lands a paralysis with Body Slam, being hit less from weather boosted moves, etc. But I think Own Tempo is overall a better choice because of its double utility (blocking intimidate and preventing confusion).
 

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I would like to talk about... Lickilicky.

I just got, in a fight, a banded Lickilicky (knock off, explosion, body slam, EQ) with Oblivious. I noticed it after my opponent used Taunt on it.

Oblivious is obviously fantastic on SD or Support Lickilicky sets. However, on a banded set? Its only use is against Lopunny, the sole Cute Charm carrier in randbats. I noticed it was the only ability that Lickilicky can get.

Forgive me if I mix things up (don't remember if abilities are always generated before or after the movesets), but to my understanding, certain abilities can be associated with a specific moveset or previously generated teammates (i.e. sand rush on excadrill if a teammate generated before it has sand stream, or if it has a rock type move).

Given that, there would be zero reason to not have Own Tempo over Oblivious for banded sets. Both block intimidate, and Own Tempo has the benefits of preventing confusing, which is far more likely to happen (hurricane, strange steam, dynamic punch, water pulse, gmax smite...) than infatuation from lopunny.

Cloud Nine could also be more useful, preventing Lickilicky from being outsped by opponents whose speed is boosted by weather if it lands a paralysis with Body Slam, being hit less from weather boosted moves, etc. But I think Own Tempo is overall a better choice because of its double utility (blocking intimidate and preventing confusion).
Oblivious can be rejected with no status moves. This will, however, cause Cloud Nine to (sometimes) generate instead, directly announcing to any knowledgeable opponent that lickilicky is guaranteed to be banded. I am not sure if this downside is worth the benefit of any ability change in this scenario.
 

SparksBlade

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Oblivious can be rejected with no status moves. This will, however, cause Cloud Nine to (sometimes) generate instead, directly announcing to any knowledgeable opponent that lickilicky is guaranteed to be banded. I am not sure if this downside is worth the benefit of any ability change in this scenario.
I will take a more useful ability that reveals my set over a less useful ability to keep my opp guessing whether my licki is banded (which will also be revealed after no lefties etc anyway)
 

SparksBlade

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After licki doesn't show lefties everyone will assume it's banded so there's really very little reason to try to hide it. Also cloud nine is so useful against all mons that dynamax to set weather that gives them a speed and damage boost which isn't uncommon at all.
 
Yeah Cloud Nine is a great ability; it's a shame every Pokémon with it has one that's better, or at least better suited to its role. But Lickilicky is a great opportunity of actually introducing the ability to rands, and as previously mentioned Lickilicky cannot bluff being non-Band for long. Frankly, in high-level play you just think "wow that did more than I thought", calc it, and realise it's Band, even if lack of lefties doesn't give it away e.g. if it's still at full HP.

I'd almost say Cloud Nine should be preferred over Own Tempo on Band sets if we had that choice. As is, having the option of either is just as good.
 
Oblivious can be rejected with no status moves. This will, however, cause Cloud Nine to (sometimes) generate instead, directly announcing to any knowledgeable opponent that lickilicky is guaranteed to be banded. I am not sure if this downside is worth the benefit of any ability change in this scenario.
Makes sense. Has to do with the ability "viability rankings" I guess, and Own Tempo being ranked lower than Cloud Nine?

I do agree that revealing a banded set can be a downside in certain situations. Kind of like when you could spot a Zoroark or a mega-evolution back in the days simply by looking at the level. Obviously, as stated, it can't bluff for long (just one turn), but that's enough to lure a taunt, or a switch to a non-expecting foe.

Would definitely be cool though to finally have that ability (besides Ray) in a meta where weather can be very important. One example I can think of is how, under the rain, and baring any "hax", Kingdra can 2HKO Licki (LO pump is 54.4%-64.4%), but without rain, banded Licki gets the edge in 2 turns after Kingdra one single LO recoil (or rocks/spikes), as Body Slam does (44.3%-52.5%), with the possibility of getting a para. Same is true for Ludiculo. With its natural bulk, it also serves as a way to waste 1-2 turns of weather, too. And I could probably name a bunch of other utility.

Either way, I'm fine with status quo - it's a change that would only affect one Pokémon, in the end, and which would be useful only situationaly.
 
Similar story of getting a Ice Punch/Brick Break/Hidden Power Ice/Shadow Sneak Marshadow. I question Brick Break but overall I agree with Rarycaris on Spectral Thief. Unresisted STAB and the move don't work.
 

Pujo

Gator l'alligator
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Similar story of getting a Ice Punch/Brick Break/Hidden Power Ice/Shadow Sneak Marshadow. I question Brick Break but overall I agree with Rarycaris on Spectral Thief. Unresisted STAB and the move don't work.
This probably wasn't Random Battle considering Marshadow can't roll Hidden Power Ice nor Brick Break in regular Random Battle.
 
can crabhammer please be forced on crawdaunt, CC isn't really needed when your stabs are probably gonna be stronger anyway and getting aqua jet as your only water stab on DD isn't the best
 
Why does Focus Energy Inteleon not have Snipe Shot? It has a high crit ratio which makes it always crit after Focus Energy+Scope Lens, whereas Surf only has a 50% chance to crit. It also ignores Storm Drain which is useful against Gastrodon and Cradily
 
Why does Focus Energy Inteleon not have Snipe Shot? It has a high crit ratio which makes it always crit after Focus Energy+Scope Lens, whereas Surf only has a 50% chance to crit. It also ignores Storm Drain which is useful against Gastrodon and Cradily
Surf has a stronger base power, and it will always land as a critical hit after using Focus Energy. It is not 50%; it will be 100%.

With regards to your second point, Inteleon would prefer to use +10 BP stronger STAB regularly, and Ice Beam is meant for Cradily anyway:


Lvl 80 84 SpA Sniper Inteleon-Gmax Ice Beam vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 SpD Cradily on a critical hit: 252-297 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO.

Furthermore, G-max Hydrosnipe ignores any and all abilities including Storm Drain, and it obliterates both Cradily and Gastrodon very easily.


Lvl 80 84 SpA Sniper Inteleon-Gmax G-Max Hydrosnipe vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Gastrodon on a critical hit: 414-487 (127.7 - 150.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Lvl 80 84 SpA Sniper Inteleon-Gmax G-Max Hydrosnipe vs. Lvl 86 84 HP / 84 SpD Cradily on a critical hit: 330-391 (114.5 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Snipe Shot only ignores the redirection effect of Storm Drain, not the immunity effect. That aspect of Snipe Shot is only useful in Doubles.
 
Klefki needs twave more often than it needs toxic. I dont know what toxic does except allow it to take down opponents (not that well either, its similar to giving a low attack monster that doesnt heal and has low defenses toxic). Prankster twave is much better than prankster toxic.
 
Klefki needs twave more often than it needs toxic. I dont know what toxic does except allow it to take down opponents (not that well either, its similar to giving a low attack monster that doesnt heal and has low defenses toxic). Prankster twave is much better than prankster toxic.
Toxic is better than Thunder Wave against many archetypes that like to switch into Klefki, namely setup sweepers. It's also important when using Klefki's defensive attributes, i.e. immunity to Toxic as Klefki can do something against opposing walls besides getting chipped down by Scald or Seismic Toss or something. Both are better than the other one depending on matchup, so keeping both is for the best.
 
Toxic is better than Thunder Wave against many archetypes that like to switch into Klefki, namely setup sweepers. It's also important when using Klefki's defensive attributes, i.e. immunity to Toxic as Klefki can do something against opposing walls besides getting chipped down by Scald or Seismic Toss or something. Both are better than the other one depending on matchup, so keeping both is for the best.
idk what u r switching into klefki, i switch steel types into it
 

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