I think a life orb set will seriously wreak havoc in the top of UU that may get it into BL. If Encourage will indeed boost the attacks with a chance of a secondary effect with 50%, Earth Power will get a double STAB. If you add Life Orb boost to it, the total increase will be 130%. If the huge amount of grass types in UU stays put, Poison Jab may be considered in a set, as it will get those same boosts.Nidoking
Dream World Abiltiy: Encourage
Ability Characteristics: Encourage increases the attack power of moves with secondary effects by 50% but prevents said effects from occurring.
Pros: Nidoking has never quite been OU material. He has lackluster 92 attack and 85 special attack. Despite his large move pool, he just doesn't have the oomph needed to play with the big boys. Now that Encourage adds some power to his attacks, the king just might have what it takes.
Almost every move that Nidoking would use for his standard sets is powered by Encourage, giving them a STAB boost. All the important moves that receive a boost are as follows: Earth Power, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, Thunder, Thunderbolt, and the three elemental punches. That's quite a resume. Notably, Sludge Bomb and Earth Power have a 202 BP and Poison Jab will have a 180 BP.
Cons: Most likely, a simple STAB boost won't be enough to help Nidoking. He has more problems besides low attack stats. At best Encourage will make Nidoking a premier UU wall breaker that gets bumped to BL, but even that is wishful thinking. More likely, he will solidify a place in upper UU usage as a mixed sweeper/wall breaker.
Alternate Abilities:You won't want to use them. Poison point is a terrible ability and why use the luck based Rivalry when you can have a guaranteed boost from Encourage. Encourage is the best thing that has happened to Nidoking since Psychics lost their throne of power in the second generation. And since it is possible that the wallbreaker of UU, Blaziken, might move up to OU, now is the perfect time for Nidoking to come in andstealfind his niche.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokemon that benefit the most from Dream World (They see me Update'n,)
- Thread starter DanielG
- Start date
The lack of Sableye makes me sad--with Mischievious Heart, it now gains the fastest Trick in the land (thanks to +1 priority!), and it doesn't even need a Choice Scarf! Also, Espeon with Magic Mirror deserves a mention, as Magic Mirror blocks all status moves and Taunt, meaning nothing can stop it from setting up Calm Minds (bar Pursuiters like T-Tar and Drapion).
This thread is only for discussing the improvements to D/P pokemon, not for B/W pokemon. And DanielG, it would be nice if you updated the OP a bit.
In the OP, you still list Poison Heal Gliscor as having no drawbacks. I'd say losing roost is a giant drawback. Unless theres a way to get a poison heal + roost gliscor I haven't heard about yet.
Dream World abilities can be bred, so Gliscor can get Roost.
@-Lux-: Yes, I'll make an analysis soon.
The Dream World abilities can be bred, but Roost is no longer a TM. I was under the impression that it can no longer be bred (unless it is also a egg move).
However, i want Roost + Poison Heal Gliscor as much as anyone. If I am mistaken, I will rejoice.
YOu still have forgotten POISON HAND MUK! Prettly much the most common moves that are touching are a) the staple dragon type moves b) the resisted fighting type moves. Muk also has good 105/75/100 defenses with Gunk Shot (rare for a poison type though still not that good) Curse, And yeah/ BTW your original intro of Justice Heart needs to be redone.
What about Mischievious Heart Sableye? Priority Will-o-Wisp is pretty amazing!
Since my thread was closed, altough it wasn't about discussing the tiers, just pointing out some pokemon who don't see much daylight on teams, it was about discussing that some of these got new abilities and that they might see more usage from now on... oh well here is the list I composed..
Magmortar / Magmar
DW Ability : Vital Spirit
It's moveset isn't even increased with one usefull move (maybe Burst Flame and Nitro Charge.. depends how that goes for it), but he got a new ability in Vital Spirit, meaning it could switch in safely on sleep inducing grass types, including Breloom.
Furret
Dw Ability : Frisk
It's ability won't make it switch Tiers, but it's more usefull then it's others,
Also one of the few learning Follow Me, and Covet got a boost to 60bp, so 90bp with stab counted in, maybe making Furret our newest thieving member. (Also usefull for the item hunting in the game itself)
Noctowl
DW Ability : Tinted Lens.
Well Noctowl is one of the sturdiests Normal/Flying, it got a nice new ability in tinted lens, making not very effective moves get a boost in attack power (50% I believe). With 76 Base Sp.Atk, and 50 Attack, it won't put dents in anything with decent defenses, but it's something noteworthy.
Ariados
Dw Ability : Sniper
It got a nice new ability, altough somewhat gimmicky, but it can use Night Slash and Cross Poison who both got a higher critical rate. It also has Baton Pass, so a Focus Energy passed to him might do something, also it gets a new move Electra Net, which is an electric version of icy wind, which he and Denchukan (believe that;'s the electro spiders name) get. It does low damage with 60 Base Sp.Atk and 55 BP but it's a nice niche in doubles. Nothing Game-Breaking, but it might hurt getting a 3x critical Cross Poison (105 bp with stab) in your non resisting face ^^ of an average 90 Base Attack.
Xatu
DW Ability : Magic Mirror.
I read something about this, but I doubt it's also that gamebreaking, might add a nice niche to Xatu, making it reflect moves that reduce stats (reflect the intimidate right back at you Gyarados!!).
Bellossom
DW Ability : Healing Heart
Healing Heart might heal a team members status 50% chance, I believe this only goes for doubles, but it might be a nice alternative to the chlorophyll, since Bellossom isn't a great wall, it has decent defenses, and in triple battle's.. who knows..
Sunflora
DW Ability : Early Bird
Early Bird makes this thing a powerhouse, if it falls asleep all it's stats increase +2, and it also wakes 1 turn earlier... (also for those people that think i'm being serious, sorry, but sunflora got the nerfstick on the dreamworld ability, but had to put a joke in :))
Girafarig
Dw Ability : Herbivore
If I'm correct Herbivore doesn't make you immune to grass type moves.
But if you get hit by.. let's say Grass Knot, you're attack increases + 1.
Well.. let's do a bullet seed on it(with a teammate of course), hope it hits 5 times and you almost got a belly danced Girafarig without losing 50% of it's hp. (Maybe 15 a 20% but that's reasonable no?)
He also has baton pass, so if the boost is passable, it might be a nice thing to use in doubles/triples.
Octillery
DW Ability : Inconsistence
If I may quote Serebii, the ability makes this pokemon get stat-ups and down inconsistently.. one time you get a +1 attack and the other time you lose -1 speed... a bit unclear ability here, so it might be nice if we got some clarification on this. Also this is a very gimmicky ability if it works like this, meaning if you want to gamble with this pokemon, who has a very nice movepool btw, this one is yours to take.
Stantler
DW Ability : Herbivore
Same thing as Girafarig, except it doesn't have baton pass, but a better Base Attack, and a better Physical Move-Pool.
Linoone
DW Ability : Quick Feet.
It has already decent speed, but this makes him outspeed
everything who doesn't have a choice scarf on. (or maybe I exaggerate a lil bit) and it has a reason to use facade now, combined with this ability.
Also it has switcheroo, which can trade the flame orb/Toxic orb to another pokemon, 2 birds in one shot ;).
Shiftry
Dw Ability : Wicked Thief
It steals the item of a pokemon who touches it with a physical move.
if it also steals the item before it faints, this might have some use, in a way of using fling... very limited, chlorophyll might be better still, might be a gimmick use though
Pelipper
Dw Ability : Rain Dish
It heals 1/16th hp during the rain. With a decent defense of 100 Base, and resist to fighting moves (altough most also carry a rock move) I can see this pokemon do a stockpile/toxic/Roost/FreeFall or Boiling Water moveset. It's better then Keeneye what it got before. Might be a nice UU user in rain now, but make sure no thunder users are about.
Tropius :
DW Ability : Harvest
The same berry can be used indefinatably in battle...
Woohoo it can put a berry in to lose a weakness to a certain type (ice/rock or fire) but it loses one of the 2 other abilities (both sunbased) and an item... is it worth it...depends what you want to do with him, it can dragon dance or growth or curse on something it shouldn't resist in the 1st place and synthesis the damage of. Also a possible usage is of course the chesto berry with rest, but Tropius doesn't have the bulk for it.. unless all it's counters (and those are a lot) are gone.. nice gimmick again though. (also wasn't there a berry that makes you move first all the time? :)
Also, Crawdaunt will be a beast, with a fling iron ball, in a trick room. (390bp) Mr.Mime get's a nice technician boost in magical leaf, charge beam and icy wind, and sharpedo was always one of my favorite glass cannons.
Also i doubt Altaria will have much staying power with cloud nine. Sandstorm and Rain Dance include rock and ice type moves a lot, meaning less staying in for Alteria, only sunbased teams will be feasible for her to stay in.
Magmortar / Magmar
DW Ability : Vital Spirit
It's moveset isn't even increased with one usefull move (maybe Burst Flame and Nitro Charge.. depends how that goes for it), but he got a new ability in Vital Spirit, meaning it could switch in safely on sleep inducing grass types, including Breloom.
Furret
Dw Ability : Frisk
It's ability won't make it switch Tiers, but it's more usefull then it's others,
Also one of the few learning Follow Me, and Covet got a boost to 60bp, so 90bp with stab counted in, maybe making Furret our newest thieving member. (Also usefull for the item hunting in the game itself)
Noctowl
DW Ability : Tinted Lens.
Well Noctowl is one of the sturdiests Normal/Flying, it got a nice new ability in tinted lens, making not very effective moves get a boost in attack power (50% I believe). With 76 Base Sp.Atk, and 50 Attack, it won't put dents in anything with decent defenses, but it's something noteworthy.
Ariados
Dw Ability : Sniper
It got a nice new ability, altough somewhat gimmicky, but it can use Night Slash and Cross Poison who both got a higher critical rate. It also has Baton Pass, so a Focus Energy passed to him might do something, also it gets a new move Electra Net, which is an electric version of icy wind, which he and Denchukan (believe that;'s the electro spiders name) get. It does low damage with 60 Base Sp.Atk and 55 BP but it's a nice niche in doubles. Nothing Game-Breaking, but it might hurt getting a 3x critical Cross Poison (105 bp with stab) in your non resisting face ^^ of an average 90 Base Attack.
Xatu
DW Ability : Magic Mirror.
I read something about this, but I doubt it's also that gamebreaking, might add a nice niche to Xatu, making it reflect moves that reduce stats (reflect the intimidate right back at you Gyarados!!).
Bellossom
DW Ability : Healing Heart
Healing Heart might heal a team members status 50% chance, I believe this only goes for doubles, but it might be a nice alternative to the chlorophyll, since Bellossom isn't a great wall, it has decent defenses, and in triple battle's.. who knows..
Sunflora
DW Ability : Early Bird
Early Bird makes this thing a powerhouse, if it falls asleep all it's stats increase +2, and it also wakes 1 turn earlier... (also for those people that think i'm being serious, sorry, but sunflora got the nerfstick on the dreamworld ability, but had to put a joke in :))
Girafarig
Dw Ability : Herbivore
If I'm correct Herbivore doesn't make you immune to grass type moves.
But if you get hit by.. let's say Grass Knot, you're attack increases + 1.
Well.. let's do a bullet seed on it(with a teammate of course), hope it hits 5 times and you almost got a belly danced Girafarig without losing 50% of it's hp. (Maybe 15 a 20% but that's reasonable no?)
He also has baton pass, so if the boost is passable, it might be a nice thing to use in doubles/triples.
Octillery
DW Ability : Inconsistence
If I may quote Serebii, the ability makes this pokemon get stat-ups and down inconsistently.. one time you get a +1 attack and the other time you lose -1 speed... a bit unclear ability here, so it might be nice if we got some clarification on this. Also this is a very gimmicky ability if it works like this, meaning if you want to gamble with this pokemon, who has a very nice movepool btw, this one is yours to take.
Stantler
DW Ability : Herbivore
Same thing as Girafarig, except it doesn't have baton pass, but a better Base Attack, and a better Physical Move-Pool.
Linoone
DW Ability : Quick Feet.
It has already decent speed, but this makes him outspeed
everything who doesn't have a choice scarf on. (or maybe I exaggerate a lil bit) and it has a reason to use facade now, combined with this ability.
Also it has switcheroo, which can trade the flame orb/Toxic orb to another pokemon, 2 birds in one shot ;).
Shiftry
Dw Ability : Wicked Thief
It steals the item of a pokemon who touches it with a physical move.
if it also steals the item before it faints, this might have some use, in a way of using fling... very limited, chlorophyll might be better still, might be a gimmick use though
Pelipper
Dw Ability : Rain Dish
It heals 1/16th hp during the rain. With a decent defense of 100 Base, and resist to fighting moves (altough most also carry a rock move) I can see this pokemon do a stockpile/toxic/Roost/FreeFall or Boiling Water moveset. It's better then Keeneye what it got before. Might be a nice UU user in rain now, but make sure no thunder users are about.
Tropius :
DW Ability : Harvest
The same berry can be used indefinatably in battle...
Woohoo it can put a berry in to lose a weakness to a certain type (ice/rock or fire) but it loses one of the 2 other abilities (both sunbased) and an item... is it worth it...depends what you want to do with him, it can dragon dance or growth or curse on something it shouldn't resist in the 1st place and synthesis the damage of. Also a possible usage is of course the chesto berry with rest, but Tropius doesn't have the bulk for it.. unless all it's counters (and those are a lot) are gone.. nice gimmick again though. (also wasn't there a berry that makes you move first all the time? :)
Also, Crawdaunt will be a beast, with a fling iron ball, in a trick room. (390bp) Mr.Mime get's a nice technician boost in magical leaf, charge beam and icy wind, and sharpedo was always one of my favorite glass cannons.
Also i doubt Altaria will have much staying power with cloud nine. Sandstorm and Rain Dance include rock and ice type moves a lot, meaning less staying in for Alteria, only sunbased teams will be feasible for her to stay in.
Only Xatu, Bellosom, and Tropius have any real competitive value.
MAGIC GUARD ESPEON > ALAKAZAM
Couldn't Lucario already switch in on dark moves for free? Plus it only raises attack not create an immunity at least that's what people are saying.
But the raised attack makes Lucario even more powerful than before, and with access to Extremespeed, a Lucario with +3 Attack is quite threatening.
4x resist/immunity is very very little difference. now you switch in on scartar crunch, and on its way out you are either +3 atk or +1/+2. agility sets might become much more popular if you can reliably get that +1 boost.
Flash Fire typhlosion should get in EZ considering how prevalent fire may be in the metagame, especially with ninetails running around.
HP ground to kill all other Flash Fire pokemon, or HP grass or something and he should be golden.
I think Leafeon and Typhlosion would work well together then in that respect.
Leafeon baits fire attacks, Typhlosion will cancel them out and attack back with a nasty Fire Blast/HP ground.
Ty definetly loves being fire immune, Charizard wishes he got dis :P
HP ground to kill all other Flash Fire pokemon, or HP grass or something and he should be golden.
I think Leafeon and Typhlosion would work well together then in that respect.
Leafeon baits fire attacks, Typhlosion will cancel them out and attack back with a nasty Fire Blast/HP ground.
Ty definetly loves being fire immune, Charizard wishes he got dis :P
breh
強いだね
It seems to me like those that benefit most are just last gen's good pokemon... Anyway I'll weed out the meh ones on the list as well as minor issues
Alakazam's pros don't at all mention that LO boost is free now... I.E. basically it's got encourage
Hitmonlee's pros don't mention Hi Jump Kick
Seaking is crap (the picture is win though)
Poison Heal gliscor can't have roost
Iron Fist Infernape is not too special IMO (all that it boosts that's good is Mach Punch)
Charizard sucked and will suck; solar power sucked and will suck
Unaware Quagsire's not too great (Unaware sucks IMO)
Flash Fire Entei is bad; it's even more outclassed by Arcanine due to this (for god's sake its highest power STAB is Fire fang like this..); Entei's best niches in UU were LO sweeping (you need Flare Blitz and Extremespeed for this, which are incompatible) and (I'm serious here) pressure stalling with CM, rest, and sleep talk. Flash Fire is a bad ability that severely limits it in both respects.
Cloud Nine Altaria is not the greatest, considering that literally every RD sweeper has a super effective move in Stone Edge, Ice Beam, or Dragon Pulse. It's a cool sunny day counter I guess... but who uses that?
Hydration Whiscash is lulz; you act as if it can actually get those DDs in the first place xD
Swift Swim Armaldo is not great because Armaldo is brought down terribly due to poor typing (it resists only poison and normal... Dx); amplifying one of its weaknesses is a bad idea.
Sturdy Regirock sucks because... well seriously how do you OHKO Regirock, lol. I realize that clear body is a seldom useful ability but it's certainly more useful than sturdy
Technician Mr. Mime boosts a grand total of... 4 Special moves with BP under 60. How great.
Anxiety Persian is crap because (if you played UU..) you would know that lum berry leads are nonexistent. I think the only common sleep lead that exists is Venusaur and the odd Jynx; the only time I've heard lum berry being mentioned in an analysis was... I think Lum Kabutops or something, lol. LC Anxiety Meowth on the other hand? That's a whole different story.
Justice Heart: There is no immunity (well Lucario is practically immume but w/e); Absol's speed still sucks too badly and has too low of a BP move for its main STAB and low defense Gallade doesn't want to switch into (often physical) dark moves; Justice Heart Luke is listed twice
Heracross is listed twice
@ Zephyr Nightstorm
Nearly all of those are truly terrible.
Alakazam's pros don't at all mention that LO boost is free now... I.E. basically it's got encourage
Hitmonlee's pros don't mention Hi Jump Kick
Seaking is crap (the picture is win though)
Poison Heal gliscor can't have roost
Iron Fist Infernape is not too special IMO (all that it boosts that's good is Mach Punch)
Charizard sucked and will suck; solar power sucked and will suck
Unaware Quagsire's not too great (Unaware sucks IMO)
Flash Fire Entei is bad; it's even more outclassed by Arcanine due to this (for god's sake its highest power STAB is Fire fang like this..); Entei's best niches in UU were LO sweeping (you need Flare Blitz and Extremespeed for this, which are incompatible) and (I'm serious here) pressure stalling with CM, rest, and sleep talk. Flash Fire is a bad ability that severely limits it in both respects.
Cloud Nine Altaria is not the greatest, considering that literally every RD sweeper has a super effective move in Stone Edge, Ice Beam, or Dragon Pulse. It's a cool sunny day counter I guess... but who uses that?
Hydration Whiscash is lulz; you act as if it can actually get those DDs in the first place xD
Swift Swim Armaldo is not great because Armaldo is brought down terribly due to poor typing (it resists only poison and normal... Dx); amplifying one of its weaknesses is a bad idea.
Sturdy Regirock sucks because... well seriously how do you OHKO Regirock, lol. I realize that clear body is a seldom useful ability but it's certainly more useful than sturdy
Technician Mr. Mime boosts a grand total of... 4 Special moves with BP under 60. How great.
Anxiety Persian is crap because (if you played UU..) you would know that lum berry leads are nonexistent. I think the only common sleep lead that exists is Venusaur and the odd Jynx; the only time I've heard lum berry being mentioned in an analysis was... I think Lum Kabutops or something, lol. LC Anxiety Meowth on the other hand? That's a whole different story.
Justice Heart: There is no immunity (well Lucario is practically immume but w/e); Absol's speed still sucks too badly and has too low of a BP move for its main STAB and low defense Gallade doesn't want to switch into (often physical) dark moves; Justice Heart Luke is listed twice
Heracross is listed twice
@ Zephyr Nightstorm
Nearly all of those are truly terrible.
Plus priority Taunt and Sun or Rain. Sableye is going to be epic.
What about Rain Dish Blastoise? I'm surprised it hasn't gotten mention yet. Poison Rampage Zangoose sounds pretty good as well. Or Cursed Body Banette, Or Guts Flareon and Guts Luxray. Then there's Heat Rampage Drifblim and Analyze Porygon2. There are a lot of cool options for Gen. 4 Pokemon, and I'm probably gonna try out a lot.
Thanks Breludicolo. I appreciate your input and I'll try to amalgamate it into a good post. I'm also annoyed about the OP not paying attention to this thread at all, and I've been trying to get their attention. But I'll see if I can post a good version of the OP in a day or so unless DanielG actually looks at his thread again.
Espeon didn't get Magic Guard. It got Magic Mirror <.<
Also I think Sash Zam should at least get a mention in the OP. If you're performing a late game sweep you're not afraid of Priority users like Hitmontop, Scyther(Scizor in OU) etc.
I'll do eccentric ditto if you'll take it. (I want this reserved, I'll have it done later this week. It pretty much makes it so ditto instantly transforms, making it way better than even smeargle at using transform. Just send it in on a support mon that can't hurt itself and have fun. (using aromatherapy spamming t-wave wish support... you pick it) Of course since the guy seems to have dissapeared of the world.... it's be nice if you could get this up cosmice.
@Aqueos: Of course I'll take Eccentric Ditto if it's a good analysis. I'll incorporate it into my "OP 2.0" that'll be what the OP should be now.