All Gens Pokemon Through the Ages: Flygon

DPP was incredibly kind to Crobat. Brave Bird, Super Fang, Roost, U-turn, even Nasty Plot and Heat Wave all help it out. Taunt and Super Fang are an awesome combo for picking apart stall teams, especially with Crobat's fantastic Speed. Roost keeps it nice and healthy, making up somewhat for Stealth Rock damage. Anything locked into a Fighting-, Grass-, or Ground-type attack isn't getting past Crobat, which allows it to switch in fairly easily. Those 4x resistances + Taunt + Brave Bird make it one of the best Breloom checks, too, which is always a plus. Taunt + U-turn also make it a great early-game scout.

I've never tried out the NP set, though I've heard some good things about it. Its Special Attack is pretty low, so it definitely needs the boost to work. Still, it has a pretty good movepool for it, so I can see it working decently. With its Speed and the amount of switches it causes, it should have several opportunities to set up. I'm sure BKC or someone else would know better than I do on this one.

Its main draw is definitely stallbreaking. With the more defensive post-Dragon meta, I think Crobat could've made its way to OU after a few more months of usage stats. Regardless, its still quite a cool mon in the meta~
 
Crobat really hit it's stride in BW UU if you ask me.

Crobat makes for such a great revenge killer, and in a fighting-infested meta, it's brave bird put easily put a stop to your heracross/roserade sweep.

The thing also truly wrecks stall, with it's immunity to toxic and one of the fastest taunts in the game.

The meta was sooo weak to brave bird when looking back.
 
I think crobats best time in any generation was gen4, prior to pokemon platinum, when hypnosis had 70% accuracy and crobat was the fastest sleeper. Not to mention heracross was a big threat and crobat naturally checked it.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Crobat is an interesting option in GSC UU. IIRC Earthworm used a Curse Crobat in a UU tournament once upon a time. Its BST is pretty special in GSC UU, and coupled with its typing, it's probably the best counter to Pinsir and Victreebel to exist (not to mention Venusaur if it's legal in whatever format you're playing). It's not a standard UU mon by any means, mostly because of its garbage movepool, but it can work.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
Crobat is the batliest of mons.

Rby rating: doesnt even exist/10


Crobat is garbdix in gsc ou and since noone actually knows what the fuck is going on in uu, it might be good idk i never saw it the 3 games i ever played.

Gsc rating: garb/10


Idk what the fuck it does in Adv... Sleeps shit?

Adv rating: what tier is it/10


Our own batman decide to get brave birdz and actually be useful in dpp which is cool since its so unique in its stats/typing. Fantastic stallbreaker with fast taunt, sexy typing for those gay grass types (a big fuck you to shaymin and the seed flare spdef drops), if they try to be good and send in heatran, uturn into sash dug to trap and set up lastmon sd sciz for the clean sweep (pray they dont have zapdos/whatever).

Dpp rating: 7/10


Crobat is pretty fucking sweet in bw uu, fast taunt is king, checks some brave ass scarf beetle who tries to go for the turn 1 sweep(good player alert). Unfortunately, it also stops the manliest of mons, sd lum virizion from going ham, which makes me dislike the thing.

Idk bout ou though. Maybe the new scarf genesect? I mean, it literally beats the same mons (celebi), and it forces in stuff like heatran that you can trap with duggy. Go figure o_o

Bw2 rating: probably something lady bug would use/10
 
I think crobats best time in any generation was gen4, prior to pokemon platinum, when hypnosis had 70% accuracy and crobat was the fastest sleeper. Not to mention heracross was a big threat and crobat naturally checked it.
Do you remember what kind of set it ran in particular? I don't think I touched Crobat until DPP UU, with the Brave Bird / U-turn / Taunt / Roost set, which was fun. Was it basically the same thing, except Hypnosis over Brave Bird?
 
Id rather run it over uturn imo, bb-less crobat sounds whimpy.
Brave Bird and Hypnosis aren't compatible, unfortunately. Even if its was, it'd probably depend on the team which one was more worth dropping. U-turn is still pretty fantastic utility to have, though Brave Bird certainly has its own merits.
 
crobat was at least bl at one point in gsc history, definitely seen more than my fair share of it. only pokemon to run fly in a competitive setting, granted even then it was questionable. it was like a really shitty pseudo-jumpluff that you ran on brock theme teams.

just history things.

request for charizard. don't see that on the front page. i bought a base set charizard the other day. i've wanted one since '98 or something. a dream fulfilled. this is a big deal to me.

edit: proof: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mkuq4j3k4itr6q/2014-03-29 13.25.29.jpg?dl=0

it's not first edition, but fuck you.
 
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I came up with that GSC Crobat set (Toxic trapper with Fly) back in 2000/2001 when I was ten/eleven and on Pokémasters. I dunno if anybody listened to me then or (more likely, of course) if I just thought of it independently from other people. It's a bad gimmick, but I was proud of the set back then.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
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UU & Tour Head
Oh, hey, history of Crobat. That's fun.

So, I was responsible for popularizing CB@, back a million years ago. This was at the very beginning of the ADV era, and it was a pretty simple set: Crobat @CB, Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/Aerial Ace/HP Ground. This was back when I was still posting under LazarusLong, approximately forever ago, playing on the old IRC bots.

I know it's an underwhelming set, completely outclassed by Aerodactyl. But here's the thing that people forget about CB@ - it was never intended to be used in the greater ADV metagame. CB@ was specifically for use prior to the release of FR/LG and Emerald, when we were still restricted to the 200 Pokemon that had been released.

This was a very different game than ADV is now, for anyone who never played in it. Most of the threats that defined the metagame (T-tar, Suicune, Celebi, Jirachi, etc.) had not been introduced yet. There were no move tutors, and a lot of the breeding-only moves were considered illegal, because there was no legal breeding combination of released Pokemon that could produce them. Hell, EVs and natures were still new, and people were still figuring out how exactly to get the most out of them.

All in all, the most defining threat from the 200 era, as I recall it, was Alakazam, of all things. Its Speed, unparalleled Special Attack and coverage made it easily the best revenge killer in the meta, and it could sweep once the opposing team was softened and the few scattered counters were removed. Take some fairly iconic members of the 200 metagame, like McGoose (McGraw's Quick Attack Silk Scarf Zangoose). The only reason it even existed was because it couldn't be revenge killed by Alakazam. I mean, hell, people were running Swellow just because it was faster than Zam.

The other really big offensive threat was Heracross. Around the same time of McGoose, people started realizing that Focus Punch on Heracross let it punch through its main counter (and the only real physical wall in the meta), Skarmory. Mixed Salamence hadn't become popular yet, and so the three most popular physical sweepers at the time, Gyarados, Salamence and Metagross, were pretty much stopped cold by Skarmory. When people started realizing that Heracross could actually punch through Skarmory thanks to Focus Punch, Heracross was everywhere. People were constantly spamming Megahorn and Focus Punch, and you needed to have something you could easily switch into those or you would lose. Even Gengar couldn't switch in, because it was always 2HKO'd by Megahorn, and even Psychic didn't OHKO in return. Basically the only thing that could reliably switch in was Weezing.

So I started running CB Crobat as an extremely niche response to the metagame at the time. It could switch into a CB Focus Punch from Heracross and only take ~40%, while Aerial Ace was a guaranteed OHKO and even just Sludge Bomb dealt around 80%. It was also a way to stop Alakazam from sweeping, since it outsped, and both Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb OHKO'd. It could revenge kill the ever-popular Gengar, too. Actually, Gengar/Dusclops was really the only reason it ran Shadow Ball, although sometimes it was nice to have a neutral attack in case you really needed to get rid of Alakazam but the opponent also had a Metagross that might switch in. But honestly, if they had a Metagross, you pretty much had to lead with HP Ground, or else they could switch it in and set up an Agility as you switched out. Sure, you couldn't touch Skarmory, but who the fuck cares? What, were you planning on dinking away with HP Fighting or something?

It turned out to be pretty fun, especially because the 30% poison chance of Sludge Bomb meant a lot of its otherwise good switch-ins like Swampert ended up poisoned. (It also meant that Milotic was the bane of my fucking existence, but whatever.) If you didn't specifically need a status absorber (and most teams didn't - basically the only thing that had WoW was Dusclops, and fuck Dusclops - and even if they did Hera was a million times better), it was almost always a better choice than Swellow. For whatever reason, it caught on.

But then....... people kept trying to use it even after FRLG came out, which is stupid. Alakazam pretty much instantly dropped out of usage as bulkier special sweepers like Raikou rose to the forefront. Tyranitar was everywhere. Crobat's amazing speed tier was suddenly tied by two newcomers. Also, with the move tutors, Substitute was being tossed around by everyone, making revenge killers that couldn't double as late-game sweepers way less useful. With Aerodactyl out, there was basically no reason to keep running CB@.
 
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Great write up, looking back I am surprised Crobat didn't pick up more steam in 200, it was rare.

Like you said checked one of the two metagame defining pokemon in Zam(Regi Ice the other), but also a lot of the other really solid threats (Gardevoir, Machamp, Hariyama, Medicham, Blaziken, weakened Starmie).

Free switch ins for Magneton and Metagross really didn't help its cause though and Weezing didn't have as many flaws as a fighting resistance.
 
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Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
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Yeah, Metagross in particular was tough. Mag usually didn't switch in because HP Ground was a guaranteed OHKO, but Gross only took ~45% from it, so it was a much safer switch. If you didn't have a good answer to Agiligross (or your answer to it was weakened enough that EQ/Meteor Mash could punch through), bringing in Crobat was basically asking for it to sweep your team. Like I said, it was a fairly niche answer. I always hated using Weezing on offensive teams, so I really only ran Crobat to have a safe switch-in to Heracross that could still deal decent damage and check a Zam sweep.

Of course, the funny thing was that Crobat stopped even being a good switch-in to Hera later in the ADV era, because the move tutors meant that now Rock Slide + Megahorn were the two moves it spammed instead of Focus Punch + Megahorn (or shitty Reversal, but that was garbage in 200 - not that it stopped people from using it).
 

Vinc2612

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Gengar was illegal in RS200

I'll only talk about DPP because it's the only tier I play where Crobat works... And it's amazing. In DP he had the cool hypnosis, too bad he lost it with platinum. But HGSS brought a new toy in Super Fang, giving him the last move he needed to stallbreak everything but Rotom. Fantastic lead (although it is a bit less efficient since sleep leads aren't a thing anymore and tyranitar/zapdos becoming common), it helps any BO team against both hardstalls (with pursuit support to remove rotom) and grass pokemons (best answer to shaymin and second best to Breloom)
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administrator
UU & Tour Head
Gengar was illegal in RS200
So it was - sorry, been a long time (more than a decade), and I'm running off memory. I remember people messing with Gengar sets from the very beginning, but that might have been from tinkering with older 'mons from before FRLG was released.
 
We're not through the GSC pokemon that have been OU yet, so I'd prefer we didn't cut the RBYers AND GSCers out of the thread just yet. Donphan, Umbreon, and Misdreavus remain, and I also think Kangaskhan, Xatu and Clefable could use a look.
 
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