Postgame POSTGAMES and Red Pandas


queen of unclesam's village
is a Community Contributor
Hello Circus Maximus,

I will be combining the postgames for Red Panda Mafia and the ill-fated BIGS into one thread, starting with Red Panda.

Red Panda Mafia

This game was 'designed' with Empoof. He was clearly the source of the theme and we decided that, to mix up the mafia scene, we would have a game where teams created their own roles. This meant hosts couldn't think info teams and guard teams and so on were a good idea and if a team was crap, it wasn't our fault! Our balancing didn't suck, your picking did!

Red Panda Mafia allowed each team to buy their roles from a certain pool over two nights, each team having the same money to make things equal. You had to have each member have 1 role before one could have 2, and then each had to have 2 before one could have 3, and so on, if you were able to afford that. So you couldn't stack every role except BG onto one guy then SG your BG.

Empoof vanished while the game was being designed, however, because he decided he needed to focus on school. billymills was a key figure in finishing the game and helping me host it. He helped balance out the roles that would be put in as well as their prices, considering the gold given to teams.

Here is the spread.

BARP1 and 2 (Buy a Red Panda) are the tabs you will probably find most interesting as they have some scratchwork on them and are the lists of the roles available. There's also sheets with me adding actions and then billy's double-checked actions. And Prio sheet for those wondering what order your things cast in. The front sheet is of course the list of the factions' members, the roles they picked up and their channels.

If any factions want to make their sheets public go ahead.

The factions were assigned members by me, based on 1 of 2 things: they had 2 old veterans and 2 new faces, who would hopefully not be randed after their vets were prioritized, or they had 4 consistent members of the community who should be watched by the other teams but not directly focused. Mekkah and jumpluff were put on the RP in Love together and could ally with Lightwolf, but both teams had members I was least sure about participating. As it turns out Katya was like the first death in the game lol.

Each faction could ally with two others that they needed half-dead and one they didn't need dead, and two they had to kill. I think it was possible to have three winners maximum, I don't think four was possible as two of the teams would have needed each other dead I'm pretty sure. Thus, negotiating with other factions was a big factor in who would win.

The RP in Love and Baby Pandas shot far ahead in this category, working together once they found they were allies, and pulling the RP in Zoos into their circle as well. They arranged a system where they could lock down other factions almost entirely and agreed to kill their own members off so the requirement was met for factions to be halved.

The other factions were just not vocal or active enough to make an alliance like this and wound up getting wiped out. This trio was capable of kidnapping an entire faction to control the vote thoroughly and just pressed their advantage from there once they discovered their capabilities.

The Love Pandas had a role duplicator and each team had a kidnapper giving them 4 maximum kidnaps, as well as two hookers and a hookguard. They had a lot of power between them that the other factions couldn't combat.

However, one of the other factions screwed up their SG chains and got kidnapped because of priority - they didn't have the two SG or hookguards target each other, maybe there was a third in the mix, and this ruined their chain and lost them any comeback potential.

I have nothing much to say about individual players at this point in time, the game is too far back for my memory, except Layell stepped up once LW and zorbees bit the dust to maintain his alliance with Love and Zoos so his team didn't get left behind, and jumpluff was of course a big factor in her alliances and team's win as she did most of the coordinating. None of the teams wanted to stab each other, while the other teams unfortunately just didn't get an alliance fast enough to counteract the massive kidnap power.

Did any team pick particularly weak roles? No, I don't think so, the Middle Aged Pandas had very good picks but they never chained their guards right so they couldn't pull off anything. I think if I had to pick a worst team buy, I would go with the Old Pandas, as they had a Prio Raise and Role Duplicator but no SG or Kidnap so there was a good chance they could get messed over. Teenage Basement had a role duplicator but no real good role to use it on. Personally I think the Love had a really good assortment of roles that was supplemented by their allies as well.

Of course, the highlight of the game was the ridiculously fast-paced final cycles, brought on by the consistent hooking of entire factions they couldn't counter and the voting dominance of the winning trio.

And then pokemonrocks777.

When his team told him he would be sacrificed so their allies could win, he went insane. He felt betrayed and thought that he could only win if he was alive, but of course, Mekkah and jumpluff would stay alive together. He tried to post his entire team and allies' roles and mess with their spreadsheet but by this time his tampering was entirely too late for the other teams to do anything with. Also he was unintelligible the entire time posting nonsense. We tried to calm him down since it was a worthy sacrifice to meet his end for his allies to win but he just provided us with a hilarious series of posts.

The Game Thread

Role PM Sheet

So that's that. Congrats to the Babies, Love and Zoos for forging a strong alliance and having the roles to remove your competition entirely from having votes or night actions.

Words of wisdom for anyone looking to make a Build Your Own mafia:
-Every team needs equal gold to buy with unless there's not equal numbers or one team has access to better roles
-Powerful roles need to be more gold but not outrageously priced so nobody buys them
-Cheap roles like Sheriff instead of Inspector can help a team not fly blind with no info but afford more gamechanging roles
-Give them a role for their leftover gold if they can't buy anything good, so they can have fun
-Role duplicator may or may not be OP coupled with Prio Boost and Kidnap, so make sure teams can't afford buying all of these
-You may or may not want to reveal all of the roles available if they're bought on separate days at once, so teams can already plan for what they buy, or you can have them buy all at once
-If you can try to ensure each faction has a leader who is capable of pulling an idler's weight while you hunt for a sub, thus they can't be busy during the time the game goes on, but hopefully every team can get well known members of the community
-Fancy WCs are fun to make allies with



I had the spreadsheet for a BIGS game for quuuuuite a while. It wasn't originally part of the SANDS set and I hadn't worked on it for months if not a year. It was also never finished.

Then billymills and DLE thought it'd be funny to make a signup thread for BIGS for April Fools. SO I fooled them right back and edited the rules and made an actual game. I threw together the forums with pluff's help in a rush and I must say, the theme was so good.. the avatars would shift to be the villain unmasked when the role died at the start, since it was a Scooby Doo theme with the aliases being villains. You gotta admit that was a nice touch.

And then the game began.

Anon Forum

The first page of the spreadsheet is the original game I had. I decided that the roles I had there weren't as original, crafty or interesting as I really wanted, and had never been able to shift them into. SO I took the factions, the role names, and made up roles as I sent out every PM.


The original Duo Wolf team was pushed down to one Wolf, as Lonelyness had requested the role of Wolf and I had to cut one of them because of how many people had signed up. Then he wound up IDLING FOR MOST OF THE GAME despite my nagging and did nothing, despite his powerful roles.

All I have to say there. Would he have won in this game's design? He had nobody to help him mole anyone and he was flying solo so no I don't think he had a strong chance but if he played his cards right and kept safe, then yeah, he had very strong roles.

Also there was Ullar. He dearly wanted to play but I didn't want to doom him to ruining a faction, so I put him in as a neutral that was utterly harmless and needed I think the only item in the game, that did nothing.

He had a chance to get it either voted to him or handed to him but he refused to speak up and admit he needed the item to win so he got killed off and lost. Easiest win ever and he just.. herped.

The Pink
These guys had a strong group, Mekkah, jumpluff, Layell, LightWolf, DLE, Walrein. Unfortunately as it turns out, their roles were simply unable to be executed as I had hoped.

They had a lot of controlly type things, and random things. They also had chaining roles. They did a ton of things with the vote. But almost all of those were random. They might have accidentally gotten themselves killed. Their only really good role that didn't need revision was the Omniguard.

Real talk this team would have worked perfectly if I didn't make almost all their roles have randomized outcomes. The fact they couldn't actually dictate their control screwed them over. Layell's role of increasing vote power was a lategame MONSTER though, if they could keep him alive and from voting, he could easily have pushed a vote to majority himself by the time half the game was dead with his stacks. But they just had nothing else to work with.

And they complained the most. Rightfully so I guess, having too many random things was just bad, even though they were meant to make plays during the day and affect votes.

The Solar
Space themed dudes here doing spacey things, like spacing out all game and doing nothing. You recognize all the names on this team at first glance and know all of them are good players, yet they were very inconsistent and idled the entire time. It was hard to get many of them working together. They were the last faction to unite and it was well after they should have because they kept being retarded.

They honestly had really, really good roles. They had an extra kill, a kill ENSURE to take out bodyguarded targets, a rogue who could rogue more factions if he was successful, a watcher who saw everyone who targeted people in a chain, an omniguard, and a guy who could protect their entire faction if they got word they were gonna be hit in one night.

Yet they did nothing. These roles went to waste on players who didn't commit. Imagine if the Pink's dedicated players had these roles to work with.. lol. Oh well.

The Deathrays
They killed stuff?

This team had a bunch of old vets, billy, dak, Lesm, and shade. The rest of their team was randoms and players who were known but not really for big plays. dak's role, an evolving Pokemon, was a poor idea on my part because I had no evolution planned out when the game began lol. You all should PROBABLY do that. However the team had a lot of offensive power. shade could reverse a kill towards his team, I actually don't know what pokemonrocks777's role was but I'm pretty sure it was a suicider who took out 2 or 3 people with him, dak was supposed to get a kill on evolution, I think, and they had a dude who couldn't be nightkilled at all.

I guess, looking at this, they didn't actually have a lot of consistent roles. A bunch of them are one-timers or every other night, but they did have a fair bit to work with, as well as strong allies. Their team was led by their vets, who found their fellow vet friends and kept a low profile. They had one of the few information roles in the game which allowed them to gather info while giving none, and flavor dictated faction.

The Deep
Sea creatures!!!!!!

This team had the other half of old vet players: Raikage, Fishin, and Bass. Snype helped them out a lot with decisions and leading, but overall they had a pretty active team. I think this was one of the strongest assigned teams because only Lady Salamence really has a history of big idling.

This team had the only alias/Smogon role - they could determine aliases of Smogon users, which nobody else could do. Goldenknight made a BPV after he stacked his armor that he could pass on, and they also had a lynchguard. And a bodyguard. And a safeguard. But no omniguard!! And a nightly hooker plus an all-game hooker, sort of role that could be used if they knew they'd all be targeted.

I think the Deep were overall the best team, with the most activity, the best group of players, and the best roles. They had a lot of protection and could play very defensively, as well as a Watcher to gain access on who targeted who. Their delayed kill or BPV AND BG probably shouldn't have existed as they just had a lot of things they could do. However, I do like the BPV-producing role.

These guys hooked up with the Deathrays, who they could win with, as both teams had pretty much not lost any members, and just muscled down the rest of the game. Nobody ever really got a hold of their aliases and I think their only death was just a randkill, or maybe whoever killed him knew.

Fruits and Vegetables
Herp derp team 2.0.

Again, you would recognize every team on this list as current players of mafia at the time and not people who generally idled, but this team.. rofl. I had to sub in Bagman 3 or 4 times back onto his own team because they kept losing people and had so many idlers. Endless chain of subs for the poor F&V.

They tried to ally with both of their possible allies, however, the Pink and the Solar did nothing but tunnel each other and kept killing between themselves, allowing the victors to go unscathed. The F&V were the unfortunate victims of their allies overcrossfiring, as well as inactivity.

This was like the only team that actually had reliable information. They had two inspections and a team dickens which was pointless because nobody had an inspector rofl. They were negative voters meant to pose as someone they aren't, and could do a bunch of various things.

In the end they really were the victims of their allies screwing them over and weren't able to use their information well enough, or find any of their enemies to kill.

Around the time this game was going on I started getting big into League of Legends. Mafia was getting old and tired and unoriginal and I was getting disinterested. The Pink constantly complaining, the struggle of subbing a F&V every day and worrying about the idiot idling Solars was just grating and I stopped changing avatars and caring as much as I should've. I think the game went a few days without its final update naming the victors and just ending things. But that's not really new for hosts to do.

If the teams had been better designed or just didn't qq all the time I wouldn't have gotten so annoyed and tired of the game I think. Balancing teams has always been my weakest point, I toss roles out and look to see that each team has something special and some of the same power roles but I can't really chart out how those will interact. So of course, making everything up as I wrote role PMs was not the best balancing, at all. The RNG was used way too much for some teams' actions and they were just not crafted well enough to be competitive.

However, I think there were a lot of cool roles in the game. The Deathray and Deep in particular have some compelling roles with cool twists and someone like Crux who was entirely untargetable was an interesting dynamic because people could waste time hitting him. There were also big one-time-only roles that could've dramatically changed the game's outcome if the game progressed evenly and teams had better knowledge of plans. Imagine if the Deep were aware that their enemies would hit them one night and hooked the entire game to stay alive.

Unfortunately all the cool things that might've worked were just not able to play out, and we got the game we did.

April Fools?

Come on nobody should have taken the game TOO seriously, it should've been clear this was an April Foolsish joke x.x I did have the spread but it got totally scrapped for its original, unfinished roles anyway. It was meant to just be fun but my roles for the Pink and the idling and crossfire didn't let that happen.

My apologies to those who took the game vvvery seriously expecting a well-balanced and delicately-crafted game that had actually been worked on for two years. A. it was a SANDS game don't b playin B. it could've been better designed for the rush job I did anyway.

However I hope the winners still had fun and enjoyed the game as well as those who were active and struggling with idlers or bad roles.

I have no individual player writeups, sorry, the game was a year ago and I don't have thorough enough notes or memories. If you would like personal feedback you can ask me for what I remember.

All in all, BIGS was not what I had intended to produce and it did not play out as I wanted, partially because of my bad design for some factions, my latent bad balancing, and idlers. I was losing interest with mafia at the time anyway and haven't really played many games since, or been invested in those games. However, I hope those of you who played still enjoyed what you could, like the changing avatars and any good roles you had, as well as the company of your team.

That's all I have to say on BIGS - I wish it had gone better, I wish I hadn't decided to rush it as an April Fools joke, I wish the Pink's roles weren't so dumb, nobody should EVER use random role outcomes again, ever, but I think it had a lot of cool roles that would work well if tweaked and I hope people had fun regardless.

AQUANAfia is in the works. I'm done with bigger games and oversized playlists for an undersized community of players who won't idle.

I need to refine AQUA and write role PMs and see if jumpluff still wants to cohost it but it's a small game with really fun roles that's just good ole village vs mafia fun. Look for it to be more like MAG where it's not full chaos SANDS tier or good fun democracy like Red Panda.

But that's what you can look forward to! No more SANDS, no more multifaction, just a fun, small game with some neat roles that will prompt you to interact.


It's all coming back to me now
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all I remember in Red Panda was co-ordinating night actions with jumpluff, who then insisted on writing massive love notes to Mekkah or something that would be announced the next day. Still, was a good game and I had fun.


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Red Panda! good memories of a better time... ;_; I just went back and reread the thread, laughs were had.

thanks ginga, layell, lightwolfy, their factions, and mekkah for being great allies, and yeti for being a great host and being willing to put me and mekkah together.


Alas poor Yorick!
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I will never forgive you for the pink roles, not even for my monster of a role.

The best part was when I teamed up with other factions to make this glorious song:

Scooby dooby doo where are you
we've got godkills to make now
Scooby dooby doo where are you
we need some help from you now
come on Scooby Doo I see you
pretending you’re on irc idle
you're not foolin' me 'cause I can see
that for LW you’d go all bridal!

you know we got a game to host
so scooby doo its really lame
don't hold back 'cause scooby doo
when you come through you're still gonna have yourself
a shitty game! Completely whack!

Scooby dooby doo let’s godkill you
we're ready and we're willin'
and we know because of you, this game’s poo
and got hits by the billion!
RP mafia was great though and the final rush was the most satisfying thing to ever happen, we breezed through so many cycles it was patently ridiculous. The best part was when we tried to sub out pr777 and then he tried to delete our spread and reveal are roles.

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