AG Primal Groudon [QC: 2/2] [GP: 1/1] [Done]

[Ktütverde]

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon notably acts as a great switch-in to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give it numerous switch-in opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre and non-Dynamaxed Xerneas. Stone Edge is mainly run in order to force Ho-Oh, the best Defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples Primal Groudon's checks such as non-Refresh Arceus-Ground and Mega Rayquaza and, most importantly, puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of reliable recovery so it can repeatedly check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder by Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, Vivillion, and an overly confident Xerneas, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder and can burn would-be switch-ins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. If running Lava Plume, Primal Groudon should use a Sassy nature. A fully physically defensive EV spread can be used to make Primal Groudon much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM since the latter has reliable recovery and Close Combat is still a 3HKO on physically defensive Primal Groudon.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Zacian-C check, since it is able to switch in on all of said foe's moves except Close Combat. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send out a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Zygarde-C is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats to Primal Groudon. Finally, Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas, or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate, especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because Primal Groudon leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 132 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set Stealth Rock up or use Swords Dance against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can surprise and decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage, and it also allows Primal Groudon to beat Defoggers such as Lunala and Arceus-Water. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and achieves perfect coverage with Stone Edge, which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes Primal Groudon with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than positive-natured Arceus formes after one use of Rock Tomb, allowing it to set Stealth Rock versus them. Crucially, it also allows Primal Groudon to outspeed defensive Zygarde and Lunala and potentially break past them. The remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. An EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature also works very nicely as a surprise factor, since it notably lets Primal Groudon outspeed Yveltal and support Arceus-Ground and Speed tie with Primal Kyogre.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon; Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Zygarde-C can paralyze it with Glare or phaze it with Dragon Tail as long as Mega Rayquaza doesn't carry a Dragon-type move. Zygarde-C also helps a lot against opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required, too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners. The former two can also help with checking opposing Yveltal, which can easily use Primal Groudon as an opportunity to switch in and Dynamax. Zacian-C, in particular, greatly appreciates Rock Tomb support, since it prevents Speed-boosting sweepers such as Dragon Dance Mega Rayquaza and Ultra Necrozma from becoming faster than Zacian-C while inflicting enough damage to put them in KO range of Behemoth Blade.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [Guardsweeper, 360582]]
- Grammar checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663]]

 

[bigtalk]

We discussed in Discord and here are the sets we'd like you to write about:

[SET]
name: Defensive Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest [/ mention Dragon Tail / mention Lava Plume]
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful [/ mention Sassy with Lava Plume]
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[Mention a physically defensive spread to help check Zacian-C, but that Necrozma-DM / Lunala do a better job at this.]

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[Spread explanation: The bulk investment lets you live two Close Combats from Zacian-C and two Ice Beams from Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock. The Speed is for Lunala and uninvested base forme Zygarde, rest is put into Attack.]

While it's definitely viable on certain teams, we don't want to include mixed Primal Groudon since it's hard walled by Zygarde and needs to compromise on one of its defenses. On the other hand, Swords Dance is able to break through Zygarde if played correctly / non-Ground supportceus and retains all of its bulk.

(People who want to use this set should actually creep it to 239 because the analysis Zygarde spread will use 48 Speed EVs, but we're not allowed to acknowledge speed creep in analyses.)

 

[Ktütverde]

We discussed in Discord and here are the sets we'd like you to write about:

[SET]
name: Defensive Stealth Rock
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest [/ mention Dragon Tail / mention Lava Plume]
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful [/ mention Sassy with Lava Plume]
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[Mention a physically defensive spread to help check Zacian-C, but that Necrozma-DM / Lunala do a better job at this.]

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[Spread explanation: The bulk investment lets you live two Close Combats from Zacian-C and two Ice Beams from Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock. The Speed is for Lunala and uninvested base forme Zygarde, rest is put into Attack.]

While it's definitely viable on certain teams, we don't want to include mixed Primal Groudon since it's hard walled by Zygarde and needs to compromise on one of its defenses. On the other hand, Swords Dance is able to break through Zygarde if played correctly / non-Ground supportceus and retains all of its bulk.

(People who want to use this set should actually creep it to 239 because the analysis Zygarde spread will use 48 Speed EVs, but we're not allowed to acknowledge speed creep in analyses.)

I already did first set, I mentioned roar instead of dtail because dtail is just bad: doesnt force Zygarde-C behind a sub out immediately, and fails to phaze out xerneas trying to geomancy on u or once its dmax is over. What does lavaplume do that toxic+blades doesnt? Or even that overheat doesn't?

I'll do second set sure

 

[bigtalk]

I already did first set, I mentioned roar instead of dtail because dtail is just bad: doesnt force Zygarde-C behind a sub out immediately, and fails to phaze out xerneas trying to geomancy on u or once its dmax is over.

Roar is fine over Dragon Tail, thinking about it some more. The primary purpose of Dragon Tail is to deal good chip to Mega Rayquaza in addition to preventing it from setting up on you, but as you say Roar is better for Xerneas / Substitute users like Zygarde-C, and these are more dangerous threats this gen.

What does lavaplume do that toxic+blades doesnt? Or even that overheat doesn't?

Here was the rationale for mentioning Lava Plume:

• Compared to Overheat: Has a nice burn chance deterring stuff like Mega Rayquaza / offensive Zygarde from switching in
  • Also nice for the residual damage on support Arceus / Lunala (keep in mind that fire move has to be paired with Stone Edge otherwise you're hard walled by Ho-Oh, so there's no room to fit Toxic)
• Compared to Precipice Blades: OHKOes Ferrothorn / always 2HKOes physdef Dusk Mane
• Compared to both: Much better for dealing with Substitute Zacian-C (otherwise, you pretty much have to predict perfectly if they have a ground immunity)

That all said, it wasn't included in the main set for a reason. We're not saying it's a great option, but it deserves a mention.

 

[Ktütverde]

Roar is fine over Dragon Tail, thinking about it some more. The primary purpose of Dragon Tail is to deal good chip to Mega Rayquaza in addition to preventing it from setting up on you, but as you say Roar is better for Xerneas / Substitute users like Zygarde-C, and these are more dangerous threats this gen.

Here was the rationale for mentioning Lava Plume:

• Compared to Overheat: Has a nice burn chance deterring stuff like Mega Rayquaza / offensive Zygarde from switching in
  • Also nice for the residual damage on support Arceus / Lunala (keep in mind that fire move has to be paired with Stone Edge otherwise you're hard walled by Ho-Oh, so there's no room to fit Toxic)
• Compared to Precipice Blades: OHKOes Ferrothorn / always 2HKOes physdef Dusk Mane
• Compared to both: Much better for dealing with Substitute Zacian-C (otherwise, you pretty much have to predict perfectly if they have a ground immunity)

That all said, it wasn't included in the main set for a reason. We're not saying it's a great option, but it deserves a mention.

"Lava Plume is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures Necrozma-DM much harder, still forces Zacian-C out and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza."

It doesn't sound very convincing tbh, is it really worth it xd

 

[bigtalk]

"Lava Plume is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures Necrozma-DM much harder, still forces Zacian-C out and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza."

It doesn't sound very convincing tbh, is it really worth it xd

It's worth mentioning somewhere but feel free to stress its negatives, ie. "Lava Plume OHKOes Ferrothorn and always 2HKOes physically defensive Necrozma-DM, can punish offensive checks like Mega Rayquaza with a burn, and is a safer move to deal with Substitute Zacian-C, which is often paired with a Ground immunity. However, giving up either Stone Edge or Toxic is very hard, as Primal Groudon will either be walled by the most prominent Defogger in Ho-Oh or completely shut down by the likes of support Arceus-Ground and Lunala."

 

[bigtalk]

add remove comment

check

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
write about moves in this order: rocks, blades, edge, toxic, rest, roar, plume

With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon acts as a great switch-in to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is an extremely a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Xerneas and not if it's dynamaxed, which it will be Primal Kyogre. Toxic cripples its checks such as Arceus-Ground, Mega Rayquaza and most importantly puts Yveltal on a timer. Stealth Rock makes Primal Groudon more splashable and works well with Stone Edge because the latter forces a popular Defogger in Ho-Oh out. Stone Edge also deals consistent damage to Yveltal. Rest is best used in balance teams. It this set in general is best used on balance allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Rock Tomb can be used in more offensive teams so that Primal Groudon generates momentum before fainting to a foe like Yveltal, while still pressuring Ho-Oh considerably. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C match-up while racking up Stealth Rock damage, prevents it from being used as setup fodder for Mega Rayquaza / Vivillon, phazes non-Dynamaxed Xerneas, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder, still forces Zacian-C out and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza, but gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. A full defense spread can be used to make it much better against Zacian-C, but it doesn't provide as much support as this set this job is done better by Necrozma-DM and Lunala since they have reliable recovery, and Close Combat is still a 3HKO.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Stealth Rock setter, however this role can be given to a teammate such as Necrozma-DM so that Primal Groudon can run both Rest and Stone Edge. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C truly counters it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or Stone Edge an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. The same goes for Primal Kyogre: predicting a switch and using Precipice Blades might give you a great head start. condensed into prev sentence Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle and it often has Substitute, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal. just say that they cover each other's weaknesses in general; ie. pdon can switch into pogre and wild charge from zacian/max lightning from xerneas, while ho-oh can switch into arceus-ground and special attackers like yveltal || mention ferro/ndm/band yveltal can use knock off on ho-oh, so it can be pressured with rocks if it is the only defogger || you should mention mray checks here like you do for the next set Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground. Finally Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C or Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Stealth Rock is tremendously useful in most teams, and Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set it up against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde-C without much trouble Zygarde with some prior chip damage. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares perfect coverage with Stone Edge which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread does several things. Defensively, it guarantees Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than defensive Lunala, and the remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. mention a jolly max atk / max spe spread to outspeed and surprise groundceus / dd zyg / yvel and speed tie with pogre and opposing pdon

Offensive Primal Groudon is extremely vulnerable to special attacks, so it has to be brought in carefully against weaker physical-attacking foes it can pressure easily such as defensive Necrozma-DM and Ho-Oh. It won't have a shot at using a move more than once or twice during most games due to being easily worn down, so focus on selecting the right move once it is on the field. no longer applies Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams, and going for Swords Dance when faced with balance teams relying on Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. In all scenarios, use Primal Groudon as a check to Zacian-C by switching in on a predicted Behemoth Blade or Wild Charge. this is not a great idea since zacian often runs sub Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon: Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Zygarde-C can wall non-Draco Meteor variants and also beat opposing Primal Groudon. Support Arceus formes / physically defensive or Dynamaxed Necrozma-DM can also live a boosted hit and weaken or cripple it, while Ditto can reverse sweep if it tries to set up. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required too. This set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task. Therefore, Zacian-C, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM are some examples of good team options.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[username1, userid1], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

There were a lot of changes, so I'll go over this again once you've implemented this check.

 

[Ginger Princess]

Ktütverde pls implement this check in the next 24 hours

 

[Ginger Princess]

archiving

 

[Ginger Princess]

Ktütverde unarchived. This is a high priority mon and should be done quickly. With or without notifications, taking 16 days to fail to implement half of a check is not acceptable. Please don't fall behind again.

Also, there's no reason why you shouldn't be seeing direct name mentions, unless you've turned it off in the notification center. Check that out on your end.

You have 48 more hours. Not doing this kind of thing again.

 

[Ktütverde]

Alright alright, I'll pay more attention, sorry. Implemented the check, waiting for bigtalk to go over it again

 

[bigtalk]

add remove comment

Hide

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon acts as a great switchin to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give Primal Groudon numerous switchin opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre. Stone Edge is mainly ran in order to force Ho-Oh, the best defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples its checks such as Arceus-Ground, Mega Rayquaza, and most importantly puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage, and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, and Vivillon, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder, still forces Zacian-C out we just removed sub from zacian's analysis set and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. A full defense spread can be used to make it much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM and Lunala since they have reliable recovery, and Close Combat is still a 3HKO.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Stealth Rock setter. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal: indeed Yveltal fails to 2HKO both Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh with Max Darkness; Xerneas can't OHKO Primal Groudon with +2 Max Starfall; and Primal Groudon is immune to Max Lightning which Xerneas needs to OHKO Ho-Oh waaay too specific for a preview. The synergy between Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon extends further: they offer security against Zacian-C by resisting Close Combat and being immune to Wild Charge respectively; Ho-Oh counters Arceus-Ground while Primal Groudon with Rest counters Arceus-Water; and Primal Groudon can switch in safely versus Primal Kyogre which preys on Ho-Oh. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. wordy + mentioning waterceus in this manner gives off the wrong idea, it can't ohko ho-oh with judge anyway Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats for Primal Groudon. Finally Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Stealth Rock is tremendously useful in most teams, especially to cripple Yveltal, and Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set it up against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares perfect coverage with Stone Edge which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than defensive Lunala and uninvested base forme Zygarde, and the remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. A spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature works also very nicely as a surprise factor, since it outspeeds Yveltal, Primal Kyogre, and support Arceus-Ground and Speed ties with Primal Kyogre notably.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon: Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Necrozma-DM and Zygarde-C can wall non-V-Create/Draco Meteor variants respectively and also beat opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, such sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

QC 1/2, very nice job.

 

[Ktütverde]

add remove comment

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[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon acts as a great switchin to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give Primal Groudon numerous switchin opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre. Stone Edge is mainly ran in order to force Ho-Oh, the best defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples its checks such as Arceus-Ground, Mega Rayquaza, and most importantly puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage, and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, and Vivillon, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder, still forces Zacian-C out we just removed sub from zacian's analysis set and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. A full defense spread can be used to make it much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM and Lunala since they have reliable recovery, and Close Combat is still a 3HKO.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Stealth Rock setter. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal: indeed Yveltal fails to 2HKO both Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh with Max Darkness; Xerneas can't OHKO Primal Groudon with +2 Max Starfall; and Primal Groudon is immune to Max Lightning which Xerneas needs to OHKO Ho-Oh waaay too specific for a preview. The synergy between Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon extends further: they offer security against Zacian-C by resisting Close Combat and being immune to Wild Charge respectively; Ho-Oh counters Arceus-Ground while Primal Groudon with Rest counters Arceus-Water; and Primal Groudon can switch in safely versus Primal Kyogre which preys on Ho-Oh. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. wordy + mentioning waterceus in this manner gives off the wrong idea, it can't ohko ho-oh with judge anyway Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats for Primal Groudon. Finally Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Stealth Rock is tremendously useful in most teams, especially to cripple Yveltal, and Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set it up against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares perfect coverage with Stone Edge which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than defensive Lunala and uninvested base forme Zygarde, and the remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. A spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature works also very nicely as a surprise factor, since it outspeeds Yveltal, Primal Kyogre, and support Arceus-Ground and Speed ties with Primal Kyogre notably.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon: Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Necrozma-DM and Zygarde-C can wall non-V-Create/Draco Meteor variants respectively and also beat opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, such sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

QC 1/2, very nice job.

View attachment 230931

implemented the small changes, tyvm:)

 

[Guard]

add remove comment

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon acts as a great switchin to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give Primal Groudon numerous switchin opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre and Xerneas. Stone Edge is mainly ran in order to force Ho-Oh, the best defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples its checks such as Arceus-Ground, Mega Rayquaza, and most importantly puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of reliable recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage, and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, and Vivillon (it also denies Xerneas's Geomancy) , but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder, and can burn would-be switchins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. A full defense spread can be used to make it much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM and Lunala this makes it seen like Lunala is a more reliable Zacian check than Groudon, which is obviously not true since they have reliable recovery, and Close Combat is still a 3HKO.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns and the extra insurance against Zacian-C . Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats for Primal Groudon. Finally Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 60 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Stealth Rock is tremendously useful in most teams, especially to cripple Yveltal, this is common sense and does not belong in an analysis and Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set it up against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage Definitely mention the fact that Swords Danc allows you to defeat otherwise very solid defoggers such as Lunala and various suppot Arceus forms. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares perfect coverage with Stone Edge which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than defensive Lunala and uninvested base forme Zygarde, and the remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. A spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature works also very nicely as a surprise factor, since it outspeeds Yveltal and support Arceus-Ground, and Speed ties with Primal Kyogre notably.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon: Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Necrozma-DM and Zygarde-C can wall non-V-Create/Draco Meteor variants respectively and also beat opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, such sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [username2, userid2]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

Terrific job, I had very little to add
I'll have to hold off the final stamp for now though, as I find it very odd why my fellow QC members decided on Edge>Tomb on Stealth Rock SD. I'll finalize this once I get an explanation

Edit:
Hey Ktütverde we have decided to give Rock Tomb the primary slash on Stealth Rock + Swords Dance. It is to be run with this spread:
252 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 132 Spe (still Adamant)
Spe EVs are to outrun max Spe Arceus after 1 Rock Tomb.
Do still slash Stone Edge 2nd, as that does allow you to OHKO Ho-Oh
Reflect these changes and you will be at 2/2
Gl in finals btw!

 

[Ktütverde]

add remove comment

Terrific job, I had very little to add
I'll have to hold off the final stamp for now though, as I find it very odd why my fellow QC members decided on Edge>Tomb on Stealth Rock SD. I'll finalize this once I get an explanation

Edit:
Hey Ktütverde we have decided to give Rock Tomb the primary slash on Stealth Rock + Swords Dance. It is to be run with this spread:
252 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 132 Spe (still Adamant)
Spe EVs are to outrun max Spe Arceus after 1 Rock Tomb.
Do still slash Stone Edge 2nd, as that does allow you to OHKO Ho-Oh
Reflect these changes and you will be at 2/2
Gl in finals btw!

Okayyyyyy, now Pdon is finally done, thanks! The changes (do u agree with them?):

"Roar [...] and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, Vivillion, and overly confident Xerneas, but it is hard to justify over other moves. "

"(Swords Dance) is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage, and allows Primal Groudon to beat defoggers such as Lunala and Arceus-Water. "

"The Speed investment makes it faster than positive-natured Arceus formes after one use of Rock Tomb" <- the evil sentence

 

[bigtalk]

Ktütverde Make sure to slash Rock Tomb / Stone Edge on the Swords Dance set

 

[Ktütverde]

Ktütverde Make sure to slash Rock Tomb / Stone Edge on the Swords Dance set

ok done thx

 

[bigtalk]

add remove (comment)
(AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; AH=add hyphen; RH=remove hyphen)

Hide

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon notably acts as a great switch-(AH)in to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give Primal Groudon it numerous switch-(AH)in opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre and non-Dynamaxed (qc: they'll nearly always dynamax) Xerneas. Stone Edge is mainly ran run in order to force Ho-Oh, the best Defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples its Primal Groudon's checks such as non-Refresh (qc) Arceus-Ground (RC) and (parallelism error) Mega Rayquaza (RC) and, (AC) most importantly, (AC) puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and (you repeat this in the next sentence) curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of reliable recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage (RC) and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for by Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, Vivillion, and an overly confident Xerneas, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature (natures should go at the end of the para) is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder (RC) and can burn would-be switch-(AH)ins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. (qc: i changed my mind so this will be replaced with overheat. you don't have to worry about it though; i'll make the edit myself once this gets uploaded) The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. If running Lava Plume, Primal Groudon should use a Sassy nature. A full defense fully physically defensive EV spread can be used to make it Primal Groudon much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM since it the latter has reliable recovery (RC) and Close Combat is still a 3HKO on Primal Groudon.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Zacian-C check, since it is able to switch in on all its of said foe's moves except Close Combat. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send out a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats for to Primal Groudon. Finally, (AC) Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas, (AC) or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate, (AC) especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it Primal Groudon leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Swords Dance Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 132 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set Stealth Rock up or use Swords Dance against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM, or use Swords Dance instead. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can surprise and decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage, and it also allows Primal Groudon to beat Defoggers such as Lunala and Arceus-Water. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares achieves perfect coverage with Stone Edge, (AC) which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes Primal Groudon with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than positive-natured Arceus formes after one use of Rock Tomb, allowing it to set Stealth Rock versus them. Crucially, it also allows Primal Groudon to outspeed defensive Zygarde and Lunala and potentially break past them. (qc) and The remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. An EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature also works also very nicely as a surprise factor, since it notably lets Primal Groudon outspeeds Yveltal and support Arceus-Ground (RC) and Speed ties with Primal Kyogre notably.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon; (SC) Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Zygarde-C can paralyze it with Glare or phaze it with Dragon Tail (RC) as long as Mega Rayquaza doesn't carry Draco Meteor a Dragon-type move (qc). Zygarde-C also helps a lot against opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required, (AC) too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, such sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners. The former three also check two can also help with (qc) opposing Yveltal, which can easily use Primal Groudon as an opportunity to switch in and Dynamax. Zacian-C, (AC) in particular, (AC) greatly appreciates Rock Tomb support, since it prevents Speed-boosting sweepers such as Dragon Dance Mega Rayquaza and Ultra Necrozma and Dynamaxed Yveltal (qc: not if it picks you off w/ max airstream) from becoming faster than Zacian-C (RC) while inflicting enough damage to put them in KO range of Behemoth Blade.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [Guardsweeper, 360582]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

GP 1/1

 

[Ktütverde]

add remove (comment)
(AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; AH=add hyphen; RH=remove hyphen)

Hide

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Stone Edge / Toxic
move 4: Toxic / Rest
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
With a specially defensive set, Primal Groudon notably acts as a great switch-(AH)in to Primal Kyogre and a reliable way of wasting Dynamax turns from Xerneas notably. Stealth Rock is a great move on Primal Groudon, since its bulk and typing give Primal Groudon it numerous switch-(AH)in opportunities against common Pokemon such as Zacian-C, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Ho-Oh. Although uninvested, Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that 2HKOes Primal Kyogre and non-Dynamaxed (qc: they'll nearly always dynamax) Xerneas. Stone Edge is mainly ran run in order to force Ho-Oh, the best Defogger, out immediately, but it also hits Yveltal very hard. Toxic cripples its Primal Groudon's checks such as non-Refresh (qc) Arceus-Ground (RC) and (parallelism error) Mega Rayquaza (RC) and, (AC) most importantly, (AC) puts Yveltal on a timer. Rest allows Primal Groudon to wall Ho-Oh, defensive Necrozma-DM, and Arceus-Water throughout the entire game by restoring its health and (you repeat this in the next sentence) curing it from Toxic poison. It also makes up for Primal Groudon's lack of reliable recovery so it can reliably check Primal Kyogre even during longer matches. Roar mitigates the bad Zygarde-C matchup while racking up Stealth Rock damage (RC) and prevents Primal Groudon from being used as setup fodder for by Mega Rayquaza, Smeargle, Vivillion, and an overly confident Xerneas, but it is hard to justify over other moves. Lava Plume with a Sassy nature (natures should go at the end of the para) is usable over Toxic as a spammable STAB move that pressures physically defensive Necrozma-DM much harder (RC) and can burn would-be switch-(AH)ins like Mega Rayquaza, but it gives Primal Groudon a worse matchup against support Arceus formes and Lunala. (qc: i changed my mind so this will be replaced with overheat. you don't have to worry about it though; i'll make the edit myself once this gets uploaded) The EV spread maximizes its Special Defense and guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Adamant Zacian-C's Close Combat when healthy. If running Lava Plume, Primal Groudon should use a Sassy nature. A full defense fully physically defensive EV spread can be used to make it Primal Groudon much better against Zacian-C, but this job is done better by Necrozma-DM since it the latter has reliable recovery (RC) and Close Combat is still a 3HKO on Primal Groudon.

Primal Groudon fits best on balance and bulky offense teams in need of a Primal Kyogre check, Stealth Rock setter, and a way of wasting Xerneas's Dynamax turns. It is also a good Zacian-C check, since it is able to switch in on all its of said foe's moves except Close Combat. Early-game, play aggressively with Primal Groudon since only defensive Zygarde-C and Refresh Arceus formes truly counter it. Use Stealth Rock if there's a good opportunity to, but don't hesitate to use Toxic or an attack instead if you expect your opponent to send out a powerful wallbreaker like Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, or Primal Kyogre. Even though Primal Groudon resists most of Zacian-C's moves, Close Combat is too powerful for it to handle, so having a teammate like defensive Necrozma-DM or Lunala is a good idea. Ho-Oh and Primal Groudon form a potent defensive core compressing Stealth Rock and Defog that also works well at wasting Dynamax turns from the likes of Xerneas and Yveltal. Furthermore, Primal Groudon can switch into Water- and Electric-type attacks from Pokemon like Primal Kyogre and Zacian-C, while Ho-Oh can switch into support Arceus-Ground. Having your own Primal Groudon check is important too, so take a look at team options such as Zygarde-C and Arceus-Ground, which also improve the matchup against Mega Rayquaza, one of the most dangerous threats for to Primal Groudon. Finally, (AC) Ditto can come in after Primal Groudon has been defeated by Zacian-C, Xerneas, (AC) or Mega Rayquaza and proceed to reverse sweep. It is a recommended teammate, (AC) especially if Primal Groudon is running Rest, because it Primal Groudon leaves its team dangerously vulnerable to sweepers when asleep.

[SET]
name: Stealth Rock + Swords Dance
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Tomb / Swords Dance Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 36 Def / 8 SpD / 132 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
This set turns Primal Groudon into both a good Stealth Rock setter and a wallbreaker. Primal Groudon can easily find opportunities to set Stealth Rock up or use Swords Dance against foes it forces out such as Zacian-C and Necrozma-DM, or use Swords Dance instead. Swords Dance turns Primal Groudon into a powerful wallbreaker that can surprise and decimate bulkier teams lacking Arceus-Ground. It is especially useful for breaking past defensive Zygarde with some prior chip damage, and it also allows Primal Groudon to beat Defoggers such as Lunala and Arceus-Water. Precipice Blades is its strongest STAB attack and shares achieves perfect coverage with Stone Edge, (AC) which targets Flying-types such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The EV spread guarantees that Primal Groudon is never 2HKOed by Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock damage and that Zacian-C never 2HKOes Primal Groudon with Close Combat. The Speed investment makes it faster than positive-natured Arceus formes after one use of Rock Tomb, allowing it to set Stealth Rock versus them. Crucially, it also allows Primal Groudon to outspeed defensive Zygarde and Lunala and potentially break past them. (qc) and The remaining EVs go in Attack to increase its wallbreaking capability. An EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature also works also very nicely as a surprise factor, since it notably lets Primal Groudon outspeeds Yveltal and support Arceus-Ground (RC) and Speed ties with Primal Kyogre notably.

Usually, it is best to set Stealth Rock up as soon as possible against offensive teams. Against balance teams that rely on defensive Zygarde-C to check Primal Groudon, weaken it first while taking care not to activate Power Construct, then use Swords Dance to break through it the next time Primal Groudon comes in. Having teammates that can handle Mega Rayquaza is important because it doesn't fear much from Primal Groudon; (SC) Zacian-C and Eternatus can check it offensively, while defensive Zygarde-C can paralyze it with Glare or phaze it with Dragon Tail (RC) as long as Mega Rayquaza doesn't carry Draco Meteor a Dragon-type move (qc). Zygarde-C also helps a lot against opposing Primal Groudon. Having solid counterplay to Arceus-Ground such as Ho-Oh and Ferrothorn is required, (AC) too. Since this set fits best on offensive teams that can use Primal Groudon as a Stealth Rock setter and wallbreaker that facilitates sweepers' task, such sweepers such as Zacian-C, Xerneas, Yveltal, and Dragon Dance Necrozma-DM make for good partners. The former three also check two can also help with (qc) opposing Yveltal, which can easily use Primal Groudon as an opportunity to switch in and Dynamax. Zacian-C, (AC) in particular, (AC) greatly appreciates Rock Tomb support, since it prevents Speed-boosting sweepers such as Dragon Dance Mega Rayquaza and Ultra Necrozma and Dynamaxed Yveltal (qc: not if it picks you off w/ max airstream) from becoming faster than Zacian-C (RC) while inflicting enough damage to put them in KO range of Behemoth Blade.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Ktütverde, 286018]]
- Quality checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [Guardsweeper, 360582]]
- Grammar checked by: [[username1, userid1]]

GP 1/1

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[Ginger Princess]

https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/pokemon/groudon/

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