Lower Tiers PU Viability Rankings

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Lampent Unranked -> D
At the time of the ORAS PU (when it was not yet a RoA tier), I remember having used this mon several times as an offensive Trick Room setter (either with the eviolite or life orb). What was specific about him? As the BW analysis indicates (at the origin of my inspiration at the time), he has a spectacular offensive typing, a good matchup against other Trick Room setters and learns Memento. And above all it's a decent check of Monferno, which swarmed at the time and which remains always one of the best mons of this tier. Of course, Lampent suffers a severe competition with Dusknoir and Misdreavus (hence this proposition as D-rank) but the question may arise. Unfortunately, I no longer have the replays that would attest to the qualities mentioned.

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Mienfoo
This is not to discuss its place in the Viability Rankings (a D-rank) but more a question for the administrators of this tier (I realize that this is not the theme of this forum). Among the very rare fighting type mons, what distinguishes it from the mastodons like Monferno and Combusken? I have the impression that Scraggy (with his psychic immunity, his best bulk and Dragon Dance) is clearly more resourceful (he was also present in the RVs if my memories are good), but I could be wrong (U-turn and Regenerator may be more interesting). In any case it's the only mon of VRs that does not have a Smogon PU analysis in gen 6.
 
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Anty

let's drop
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Ok since this thread was extremely outdated (zeb in A zor in B lol) I went ahead and redid it with the brightest of minds ((oras) britfags zard pearl). I plan on updating it at the end of PUPL too where I'll get more opinions from players council etc, since its worth keeping up to date given how ORAS is in several tours a year. Since there were loads of changes Im not going to list them all or give all of them reasons. I also made it all alphabetical btw

The tour metagame in the past year or two has really changed the metagame. Previously common mons like Politoed have really fallen off the deep end and now receive no competitive play for good reasons which is a lot of what this changes reflect, and certain other mons have increased in ranks drastically (bronzor beheeyem simipour vibrava krokorok etc) as shown by their high impact on the competitive metagame. I also dropped loads of shit which would never even be considered in an after thought rn (the mons at the end could potentially get /some/ consideration).

Of the more controversial changes, Muk was dropped from S as players have truly gotten used to prepping correctly for the mon as the metagame has shifted in a much more physically oriented way with most common special attackers being psychic types, and Pokemon like cb golem being spammed which easily takes advantage. Grumpig feels a bit mediocre now compared to other psychs (notably mime/BEM) with it really having to go to specs/cm to threaten bronzor and clef well enough. Beheeyem has been shown again and again how amazing it is as a breaker which not only takes advantage of the most passive mons but also provides a solid def presence vs mons like monf/comb. Clef is an exceptional special wall which is one of few mons to take on non scarf rotom. Vullaby doesn't provide as much utility compared to other defoggers and being weak to rocks w/o lefties is easily abused. Zebstrika is complete shit. I think that covers all the changes in S/Aplus.

Here is the old VR I attached for comparison sake. I'll happily answer most qs
S-Rank
  • Muk
  • Rotom-F
  • Stoutland

A-Rank
A+
  • Monferno
  • Golem
  • Leafeon
  • Floatzel
  • Mr. Mime
  • Grumpig
  • Mawile
A
  • Zebstrika
  • Clefairy
  • Vullaby
  • Combusken
  • Pawniard
  • Cacturne
  • Dodrio
  • Gourgeist-XL
  • Metang

A-
  • Rapidash
  • Lumineon
  • Jumpluff
  • Bouffalant
  • Chatot
  • Electrode
  • Duosion
  • Articuno
  • Stunfisk
  • Roselia
  • Audino
  • Probopass
  • Gabite
  • Beheeyem
  • Kadabra
  • Arbok
  • Swanna

B-Rank


B+
  • Politoed
  • Drifblim
  • Relicanth
  • Huntail
  • Regice
  • Cryogonal
  • Camerupt
  • Dusknoir
  • Quilladin
  • Lapras
  • Prinplup
  • Rotom-S
  • Altaria
  • Ninjask
  • Murkrow
  • Tangela
  • Raichu
  • Crustle

B
  • Bronzor
  • Gorebyss
  • Misdreavus
  • Ninetales
  • Pelipper
  • Purugly
  • Simipour
  • Simisage
  • Smeargle
  • Solrock
  • Ursaring
  • Vibrava

B-
  • Basculin
  • Chinchou
  • Fraxure
  • Gogoat
  • Golduck
  • Hippopotas
  • Kingler
  • Klang
  • Krokorok
  • Marowak
  • Rampardos
  • Servine
  • Simisear
  • Trevenant
  • Zweilous

C-Rank


C+
  • Ampharos
  • Armaldo
  • Avalugg
  • Electabuzz
  • Gourgeist-S
  • Leavanny
  • Mightyena
  • Regigigas
  • Sawsbuck
  • Volbeat

C
  • Beartic
  • Glalie
  • Dusclops
  • Meowstic-M
  • Munchlax
  • Seaking
  • Venipede

C-
  • Butterfree
  • Carbink
  • Glaceon
  • Hypno
  • Lickilicky
  • Lopunny
  • Swoobat
  • Torkoal
  • Wartortle
  • Wigglytuff

D-Rank

  • Banette
  • Ditto
  • Frogadier
  • Furfrou
  • Luxray
  • Maractus
  • Mienfoo
  • Natu
  • Octillery
  • Shedinja
  • Vanilluxe
  • Weepinbell
 

Anty

let's drop
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
As I said before I want to update this after PUPL with opinions of those involved. If you played/tested/etc PUPL feel free to post here/pm me/vm me with or without reasonings as I want more collective opinions. Tagging those who played a lot of ORAS and some managers who might help (feel free to comment still if i didnt tag):

Shaneghoul Pearl RawMelon tko 5gen Many lighthouses Garay oak Rodriblutar robjr Dundies lockjaw Mysterious M HJAD Megazard Robert Alfons

Overall i think it looks fine aside from maybe some past mons could drop further but im interested in all ur opinions
 
Alright I got washed at the round 1 of ORAS PU RoA Spotlight tournament, but I did ladder a shit ton (made rank 1) and made a lot of teams and had a lot of fun with the tier. The viability rankings kind suck so I think they could get some changes and I'll give out some cool sets.

Rises

1649731737899.png

Floatzel -> A to S
Has no real switchins that either aren’t 2HKO by coverage or specs/LO Hydro Pump and whittled down by rocks and lack of recovery. Speed tier is insane and is easy to just slap onto most teams as both a breaker and a revenge killer. Honestly I consider this mon broken even above Rotom-Frost and Stoutland (RF suffers from rocks and prediction problems and Stoutland can be tricky to fit into a team sometimes plus it is more counterable)
1649731755773.png

Pawniard -> A to A+
Extremely good considering most teams “counter” to this is slapping Monferno and praying it’s enough (sometimes it really isn’t). I see so many teams in either the sample teams or anything I see on the ladder that doesn’t just absolutely burst a giant hole the moment it gets one free turn. I’ve basically resorted to slapping HP Fighting on many Tangela's bc fitting in a check that kills Pawniard back that isn’t Monferno is difficult.

1649731766138.png

Simisear -> C+ to A-
The Nasty Plot LO set is absolute cope if you think you can get more than one free turn in a meta where hazard removal is meh. Play SPECS and realize this thing has like 3 switch-ins (Grumpig and Chinchou neither of which have good recovery and Clefairy takes like 40-47% from fire blast). IMO is leagues much better than Camerupt because of its speed tier, it can punish Leafeon and anything below it and is basically a kill every time you get it in against offense and like 80% of Balances. Also Blaze sometimes comes up and there’s then literally NO switchins to overheat except maybe flash fire mons which all get killed by Focus Blast anyway and are weak to rocks.

Simisear @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

1649731781437.png

Kadabra B- to B+/A-
There’s really no good reason it should be this low imo, so many builds just don’t have a switchin to this this mon and gets like 2-3 kills vs cheese offenses while annoying the hell out of balance because Pursuit is hard to fit on a lot of teams. A little weird to slot this mon onto a team sometimes but otherwise just demolishes many styles.

1649731793442.png

Ninjask B- to B
Kind of have to build around it with hazard control and such but Band Ninjask U-Turns are kind of insane for momentum and can really sweep late game against offense. I prefer Speed Boost as it makes scarfers cry (Infiltrator is okay if you struggle vs Bouffalant) with Adamant and only really investing to outspeed Zebstrika and pumping a lot of bulk onto this thing to the point where it can situationally switchin to Leafeon and live Aqua Jet/weaker sucker punches.
1649731803322.png

Electrode B- to B+
I think this gives Zebstrika a run for its money (and kind of does it better) considering that it is basically Zebstrika but you can run modest and still be faster and still check any random chatot floating around. Specs is the best set bc getting chipped sucks (extra power is also great) and giving up overheat is whatever especially considering imo the way to play fast electrics in this tier is just whittle the ground type (usually Golem) and click the electric moves without being contested. You just kind of eviscerate every offense especially ones with suicide Golem leads if you play this mon with specs while being decent enough against other styles.

1649731818316.png

Tangela B+ to A
Offense glue, balance glue, and even I used it on stall. Just kind of fits on every team bc regen is broken and annoying to switch into if the opposing team doesn’t have a Muk which can be played around rather easily if you’re prepared. Enjoy a wacky spread/set I've made to compress a Pawniard check, Band Stoutland + Golem check, able to break Sap Sipper Bouffalant substitute.
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 48 SpA / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb

1649731828652.png

Audino A- to A
Kind of blanket checks a good third of the metagame while passing fat wishes to the rest of its team. A lot of teams get dismantled by knock spam BO/Balances and is just better or as good as everything else in A bc of it’s splashability in teams.

1649731840034.png

Purugly C+ to B-/B
Kind of an underrated normal type that annoys offense a decent amount with its priority, momentum move, and item disruption. Defiant is also just a sweet bonus against balance for mind games and after a predicted defog is rather tricky to switch into.

1649731851169.png

Kingler B- to B/B+
I don’t think boosting sets is the way to go, rather a ProTox Kingler has basically nothing that really wants to switch into it except maybe the incredibly rare Altaria. Dismantles a lot of bulkier teams and makes teams too reliant on Choice locked electrics have to play guessing games for progress. EV's to outspeed Pawniard and switch in to Golem sometimes.

Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 156 HP / 216 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Crabhammer
- Toxic
- Protect


Drops:
1649731864372.png


Stoutland S to A+
I prefer Dodrio/other physical breakers for the speed tier a lot these days (and their ability to bypass Tangela) and it feels pretty prediction reliant as well as usually being just a trade for offense. Not exactly just a slap on any team glue mon either. It’s good but not the same as the GOATs like Floatzel and Rotom-F.

1649731878818.png

Beheeyem A+ to A/A-
The one hit-wonder, no really, at most you are getting one hit before it dies. Defensive sets wall very little while sweeping basically nothing bc you either have no passive recovery on its boosting sets (if running colbur) or getting blasted even harder by knock off. Specs you might get in once vs a team and get your one kill but I’d rather just have a better specs mon that doesn’t have to lock into a move with immunity. TR LO sounds nice but you just lose like half your health after getting hit the first time setting up TR and chipped severely by LO. Just meh imo.

1649731895355.png

Bronzor A to B+/B
A lot harder to fit onto teams than you would think. It’s a pretty shit normal resist and usually running this means Pawniard gets in for absolutely free as well as Cacturne/Monferno,etc. Doesn’t even check psychics that well bc of its passivity plus doesn’t take shadow balls too fondly. Defensive Mawile fits Bronzors role except better in pretty much every way most of the time. Definitely worse than Metang as well.
1649731913464.png

Gourgeist XL A- to B
It’s a momentum sap that gets demolished by any stray toxics or any hazards stack. It can barely check what it needs to check while allow a free switch in for many offensive mons. Tangela is just better for pretty much 90% of teams.

1649731925151.png

Ninetales B- to C
Why pray that you can click Nasty Plot when you can be just clicking moves that do pretty much the same damage on Simisear without wasting a free turn. Just such a weird mon to build around a slot onto a team just to get revenged by a Floatzel or even Monferno sometimes.

1649731936428.png

Drifblim B+ to B/B-
World’s most disappointing payoff for the amount of support it needs for its cheese wincon sets. 5v6 without its set up gimmick and even if you do it’s just not strong enough a lot of the time. Weak to SR and having a pretty crappy typing makes this thing a poor choice except for a few offenses

I'll throw down some other cool sets I've had success with:

1649740889973.png


Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch
Lures Golem/Steel in and makes leeway for another mon to sweep. Probably the tiers hardest/biggest punish for Tangela. Last slot can be anything really.

1649739743860.png


Corsola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
Underrated wincon. I think running this thing on a team as a rocker is kinda shit considering how awkward its typing is (It is near impossible to not type stack and have a good team). It doesn't really "check" anything as a rocker either but as an alt wincon is an absolute house. This will always beat a Curse Muk and the utility of scalding stuff before you get ready for your big sweep is always nice. If you can score a burn/tox/wear down their grass type, after a boost this can often win.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
As I said before I want to update this after PUPL with opinions of those involved. If you played/tested/etc PUPL feel free to post here/pm me/vm me with or without reasonings as I want more collective opinions. Tagging those who played a lot of ORAS and some managers who might help (feel free to comment still if i didnt tag):

Shaneghoul Pearl RawMelon tko 5gen Many lighthouses Garay oak Rodriblutar robjr Dundies lockjaw Mysterious M HJAD Megazard Robert Alfons

Overall i think it looks fine aside from maybe some past mons could drop further but im interested in all ur opinions
I think Regi-G should instead of being unteired should be around B to C+ as a starting point bc of the stall opportunity in ORAS PU also including the hazard and status play
 
Alright I got washed at the round 1 of ORAS PU RoA Spotlight tournament, but I did ladder a shit ton (made rank 1) and made a lot of teams and had a lot of fun with the tier. The viability rankings kind suck so I think they could get some changes and I'll give out some cool sets.

Rises

View attachment 418391
Floatzel -> A to S
Has no real switchins that either aren’t 2HKO by coverage or specs/LO Hydro Pump and whittled down by rocks and lack of recovery. Speed tier is insane and is easy to just slap onto most teams as both a breaker and a revenge killer. Honestly I consider this mon broken even above Rotom-Frost and Stoutland (RF suffers from rocks and prediction problems and Stoutland can be tricky to fit into a team sometimes plus it is more counterable)
View attachment 418392
Pawniard -> A to A+
Extremely good considering most teams “counter” to this is slapping Monferno and praying it’s enough (sometimes it really isn’t). I see so many teams in either the sample teams or anything I see on the ladder that doesn’t just absolutely burst a giant hole the moment it gets one free turn. I’ve basically resorted to slapping HP Fighting on many Tangela's bc fitting in a check that kills Pawniard back that isn’t Monferno is difficult.

View attachment 418393
Simisear -> C+ to A-
The Nasty Plot LO set is absolute cope if you think you can get more than one free turn in a meta where hazard removal is meh. Play SPECS and realize this thing has like 3 switch-ins (Grumpig and Chinchou neither of which have good recovery and Clefairy takes like 40-47% from fire blast). IMO is leagues much better than Camerupt because of its speed tier, it can punish Leafeon and anything below it and is basically a kill every time you get it in against offense and like 80% of Balances. Also Blaze sometimes comes up and there’s then literally NO switchins to overheat except maybe flash fire mons which all get killed by Focus Blast anyway and are weak to rocks.

Simisear @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

View attachment 418394
Kadabra B- to B+/A-
There’s really no good reason it should be this low imo, so many builds just don’t have a switchin to this this mon and gets like 2-3 kills vs cheese offenses while annoying the hell out of balance because Pursuit is hard to fit on a lot of teams. A little weird to slot this mon onto a team sometimes but otherwise just demolishes many styles.

View attachment 418395
Ninjask B- to B
Kind of have to build around it with hazard control and such but Band Ninjask U-Turns are kind of insane for momentum and can really sweep late game against offense. I prefer Speed Boost as it makes scarfers cry (Infiltrator is okay if you struggle vs Bouffalant) with Adamant and only really investing to outspeed Zebstrika and pumping a lot of bulk onto this thing to the point where it can situationally switchin to Leafeon and live Aqua Jet/weaker sucker punches.
View attachment 418396
Electrode B- to B+
I think this gives Zebstrika a run for its money (and kind of does it better) considering that it is basically Zebstrika but you can run modest and still be faster and still check any random chatot floating around. Specs is the best set bc getting chipped sucks (extra power is also great) and giving up overheat is whatever especially considering imo the way to play fast electrics in this tier is just whittle the ground type (usually Golem) and click the electric moves without being contested. You just kind of eviscerate every offense especially ones with suicide Golem leads if you play this mon with specs while being decent enough against other styles.

View attachment 418397
Tangela B+ to A
Offense glue, balance glue, and even I used it on stall. Just kind of fits on every team bc regen is broken and annoying to switch into if the opposing team doesn’t have a Muk which can be played around rather easily if you’re prepared. Enjoy a wacky spread/set I've made to compress a Pawniard check, Band Stoutland + Golem check, able to break Sap Sipper Bouffalant substitute.
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 48 SpA / 100 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb

View attachment 418398
Audino A- to A
Kind of blanket checks a good third of the metagame while passing fat wishes to the rest of its team. A lot of teams get dismantled by knock spam BO/Balances and is just better or as good as everything else in A bc of it’s splashability in teams.

View attachment 418399
Purugly C+ to B-/B
Kind of an underrated normal type that annoys offense a decent amount with its priority, momentum move, and item disruption. Defiant is also just a sweet bonus against balance for mind games and after a predicted defog is rather tricky to switch into.

View attachment 418400
Kingler B- to B/B+
I don’t think boosting sets is the way to go, rather a ProTox Kingler has basically nothing that really wants to switch into it except maybe the incredibly rare Altaria. Dismantles a lot of bulkier teams and makes teams too reliant on Choice locked electrics have to play guessing games for progress. EV's to outspeed Pawniard and switch in to Golem sometimes.

Kingler @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 156 HP / 216 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Crabhammer
- Toxic
- Protect


Drops:
View attachment 418401

Stoutland S to A+
I prefer Dodrio/other physical breakers for the speed tier a lot these days (and their ability to bypass Tangela) and it feels pretty prediction reliant as well as usually being just a trade for offense. Not exactly just a slap on any team glue mon either. It’s good but not the same as the GOATs like Floatzel and Rotom-F.

View attachment 418402
Beheeyem A+ to A/A-
The one hit-wonder, no really, at most you are getting one hit before it dies. Defensive sets wall very little while sweeping basically nothing bc you either have no passive recovery on its boosting sets (if running colbur) or getting blasted even harder by knock off. Specs you might get in once vs a team and get your one kill but I’d rather just have a better specs mon that doesn’t have to lock into a move with immunity. TR LO sounds nice but you just lose like half your health after getting hit the first time setting up TR and chipped severely by LO. Just meh imo.

View attachment 418403
Bronzor A to B+/B
A lot harder to fit onto teams than you would think. It’s a pretty shit normal resist and usually running this means Pawniard gets in for absolutely free as well as Cacturne/Monferno,etc. Doesn’t even check psychics that well bc of its passivity plus doesn’t take shadow balls too fondly. Defensive Mawile fits Bronzors role except better in pretty much every way most of the time. Definitely worse than Metang as well.
View attachment 418405
Gourgeist XL A- to B
It’s a momentum sap that gets demolished by any stray toxics or any hazards stack. It can barely check what it needs to check while allow a free switch in for many offensive mons. Tangela is just better for pretty much 90% of teams.

View attachment 418406
Ninetales B- to C
Why pray that you can click Nasty Plot when you can be just clicking moves that do pretty much the same damage on Simisear without wasting a free turn. Just such a weird mon to build around a slot onto a team just to get revenged by a Floatzel or even Monferno sometimes.

View attachment 418407
Drifblim B+ to B/B-
World’s most disappointing payoff for the amount of support it needs for its cheese wincon sets. 5v6 without its set up gimmick and even if you do it’s just not strong enough a lot of the time. Weak to SR and having a pretty crappy typing makes this thing a poor choice except for a few offenses

I'll throw down some other cool sets I've had success with:

View attachment 418418

Muk @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch
Lures Golem/Steel in and makes leeway for another mon to sweep. Probably the tiers hardest/biggest punish for Tangela. The last slot can be anything really.

1649739743860.png


Corsola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
Underrated wincon. I think running this thing on a team as a rocker is kinda shit considering how awkward its typing is (It is near impossible to not type stack and have a good team). It doesn't really "check" anything as a rocker either but as an alt wincon is an absolute house. This will always beat a Curse Muk and the utility of scalding stuff before you get ready for your big sweep is always nice. If you can score a burn/tox/wear down their grass type, after a boost this can often win.
Some of these I agree with but there is only one I don't agree with and it's dropping Stoutland from S to A+ and it's because of the move Facade. In a format like ORAS PU where status conditions shut down, most Pokemon that have a moveset that isn't limited to needing priority like Dodrio. Yes I believe Dodrio should be raised a rank in viability but because Stoutland's Flexibility with Facade in the current meta Stoutland should NOT be dropped from S to A+
 

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