Metagame Pure Hackmons [Leader's Choice]

[Wynaut0945]

Maybe I'm just stupid but how do I play Pure Hackmons in Showdon?

 

[Ransei]

Maybe I'm just stupid

no

How do I play Pure Hackmons in Showdon?

If you want to play Gen 8 Pure Hackmons, you can go on the site, click on a username, click the challenge button, then find [Gen 8] Pure Hackmons on the formats list. It'll be on the second column, almost at the center of that column. You can also wait for a [Gen 8] Pure Hackmons tour to pop up either in the Other Metas room, the Old Shark room (type /join Old Shark to join that), the tournaments room, and occasionally the arcade room.

If you want to play Gen 6 Pure Hackmons you can follow all of the same steps, except it would be smack down in the middle if you try challenging other players to it. You can also find games against random players on ladder by finding it in furthest right column and a little lower from the center.

 

[DaWoblefet]

New Eternamax research shows that Transform or Imposter Eternamax can be used to cause crashes where the battle is unable to progress. If an Eternamax transforms into a non-Eternatus, it will just straight-up freeze the game. I can think of a few options of how this could be theoretically implemented for Pure Hackmons' purposes:

• If the game would crash, just instantly tie the game
• Ignore the mechanics and make up some behavior (in this case, likely doing nothing, and making the Transform just work properly). Slap a do-nothing clause on Pure Hackmons like "Eternamax Transform clause" or something.
• Ban Transform + Eternamax and Imposter + Eternamax
• Ban Transform + Imposter
• Ban Eternamax

The last three are definitely the easiest solutions available. Custom games would properly implement the second option, since they ignore other stuff like overflow and allow other impossible things. I'm not sure if people are championing an Eternamax ban but this would be about the best excuse you could make for one.

Probably the most comparable previous situation in Gen 8 was the Illusion game crashes that happened pre-DLC1. The Ability Illusion would crash the game under certain situations. I don't see any discussion of Illusion in this context in either the Pure Hackmons or Balanced Hackmons thread, so I'm not sure if there was a precedent set. As far as the implementation of other game-breaking glitches goes, in Gen 5 DOU there is pretty substantial glitch with Sky Drop and Gravity; it doesn't crash the game, but it does make the game very unfun for one player, locking a Pokemon out of moving for potentially the entire game. Showdown doesn't have the glitch implemented, but Gravity is still banned as part of the combo in Gen 5 DOU to reflect what would be done if it were to happen. This is a different metagame in a different context, but it's about the only comparable thing I can think of to what is facing Pure Hackmons.

 

[Tmi489]

New Eternamax research shows that Transform or Imposter Eternamax can be used to cause crashes where the battle is unable to progress. If an Eternamax transforms into a non-Eternatus, it will just straight-up freeze the game. I can think of a few options of how this could be theoretically implemented for Pure Hackmons' purposes:

I think the best implementation is that: If a player caused a crash, they automatically forfeit. This is similar to both Endless Battle Clause and proposed RBY Sleep Clause implementation (lose if you force an endless battle / sleep 2 mons). This would retain cart accuracy while also not causing a crash every game. Its worth noting that Impostor Eternamax is almost completely unviable (used mostly by people coming from BH), so meta impact is low and people using it would be liable.

There's also the option to switch to BDSP once they come out - especially if Smogon in general does, too.

And of course, Custom Game should ignore this completely because its PS's engine, not SWSH's.

I'm not sure if people are championing an Eternamax ban

"Sadly" most of us don't because shell smash Zac-C or Caly-S are so much worse

 

[DaWoblefet]

Further research from Anubis has made these concerns irrelevant. The game crashes are irrelevant to Pure Hackmons, as the crash only happens in story battles where you can't Dynamax. So in fact, nothing needs to be done here at all in terms of policy!

 

[sumwun]

What advice should new players know when picking up this format? What should they consider when making their first 2 or 3 Hackmons teams?

 

[Mbouchon]

What advice should new players know when picking up this format? What should they consider when making their first 2 or 3 Hackmons teams?

Neutralizing Gas suppresses abilities that were dominant in earlier gens, making seemingly broken abilities like Huge Power and Innards Out unviable. Newer players tend to gravitate towards Pokemon like Sturdy Shedinja and Air Balloon Wonder Guard Electric-types, which, to be frank, are easily beaten. Strategies with Gastro Acid/Core Enforcer are usually not effective, as the target can simply switch out to regain its ability.

An obscure mechanic to new players is that with 240 EVs and a positive nature in either Defense or Special Defense, Eternatus-Eternamax can become pretty much invincible in said stat. This is because of a mechanic called overflow; more information on it can be found here. Because of this, players resort to using OHKO moves, moves that don't take Defense stats into account like Night Shade, and Shell Smash Stored Power/Power Trip to defeat Eternamax. Support moves from very fast Pokemon such as Regieleki can Taunt Eternamax, either forcing it out or restricting its actions.

A Magic Bounce Pokemon is virtually necessary, because Comatose (one of the few Abilities not suppressed by Neutralizing Gas) + Sleep Talk + Whirlwind/Roar is often used in Pure Hackmons.

Even more so in Gen 8 than in other gens, typing of Pokemon used (outside of Eternamax/very fast Pokemon) is very important - for example, Giratina's viability is in part due to its ability to switch into Pokemon using Horn Drill/Guillotine.

Safety Goggles is a very useful item on Eternamax, because Shell Smash Stored Power/Power Trip sweepers use sleep moves such as Spore to gain turns to set up.

 

[Lectrys]

What advice should new players know when picking up this format? What should they consider when making their first 2 or 3 Hackmons teams?

I have some tips that supplement mbouchon's advice:

If you have no clue what to put on your Pure Hackmons Pokemon set, Neutralizing Gas and Safety Goggles are pretty good defaults. As mbouchon says, Safety Goggles gives you immunity to Spore (Spore is the only viable move Safety Goggles blocks, though), possibly buying you crucial turns against Shell Smash sweepers and luring opposing Knock Offs. Due to turning off nearly all opposing abilities, Neutralizing Gas lets you switch into opposing No Guard mons (not without risk of being OHKOd the old-fashioned way), forces both them and Wonder Guard mons to suppress your ability, and lets you ignore opposing Magic Bounce (useful on hazard setters, sleep spammers, Taunters, and Encorers) and Sturdy (useful on mons with OHKO moves). As an additional gameplay tip, if you predict the Gastro Acid from a suspected faster No Guarder, firing off an OHKO move is a great way to juke them.

This leads into this gameplay tip: always assume that any Pokemon with no ability message on switch-ins and no Air Balloon has No Guard as its ability. This means that switching in any Pokemon without Neutralizing Gas, Sturdy, or Wonder Guard with no current weaknesses to Normal, Ground, and Ice will probably lead to your mon being OHKOd. This also means that, if the opposing suspected No Guarder suppresses your ability, you should switch out or Dynamax the next turn. As a corollary, switching your No Guarder into any mon without Neutralizing Gas that hasn't been completely scouted for OHKO moves is rather risky, especially if you're switching out OHKO bait such as Eternamax.

Similarly, any mon that successfully uses Lock-On or Mind Reader will probably use a OHKO move the next turn, so make sure to switch out or Dynamax.

Leads often stray from using Safety Goggles because Lovely Kiss, Taunt, and even Trick/Switcheroo are more common on leads, due to dodging Safety Goggles and thus being usable on Turn 1. Lum Berry lets you dodge Lovely Kiss (and Nuzzle/Glare) once, while Mental Herb lets you dodge Taunt/Encore once.

If your team includes a Shell Smasher, scouting the opposing Eternamaxes' overflow-jacked defences is pretty good and will often let you not waste turns hitting Eternamaxes for almost-zero damage late-game. Make sure to keep track of which moves an Eternamax hit by a move for over 1% damage used. Mousing/hovering over that Eternamax should uncover what moves that Eternamax used (even if the game is uncertain which Eternamax it is and therefore assigns more than 4 moves to it), thus helping you determine which defence(s) is not the overflowed defence on that Eternamax. Disruptive moves like Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Lava Plume, Anchor Shot, Thunder Cage, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, and Clear Smog are often sufficient for determining jacked Eternamax defences, but Spectral Thief is especially valuable for bypassing Substitute as well as stealing opposing stat boosts, thus letting you scout opposing Eternamax jacked defences through Substitute.

Shell Smashers that use Spore need Knock Off support, and without ensuring that all remaining opposing mons have no Safety Goggles and are not Comatose, Spore users risk either losing turns hitting Spore-immunes or not using Spore and leaving themselves open.

Speed tiers in Pure Hackmons can get a little weird. Notably, Eternamax needs a speed-boosting nature and +1 in Speed or a Choice Scarf to outspeed Regieleki (or +2 in Speed). This means that Scarf Eternamax either sacrifices its ability to deal with Regieleki or its ability to take hits. Additionally, any mon that underspeeds min Speed, Speed-lowering nature, 0 Speed IVs Eternamax and therefore Shell Smashes after its Spectral Thief fails to outspeed Regieleki after 1 Shell Smash. (I personally recommend outspeeding Regieleki after 1 Shell Smash. Regieleki often packs really annoying disruptive moves such as Lovely Kiss or Trick.) Shell Smashers that speed tie with or are faster than Eternamax (e.g. Calyrex-Shadow) should use a disruptive move that prevents Eternamax from connecting with Spectral Thief (e.g. Spore, Entrainment Normalize, Imprison Spectral Thief). Shell Smashers slower than Eternamax (e.g. Rayquaza, underspeed Mewtwo) can afford to use coverage. Due to how squishy Indeedee and Obstagoon can be despite their immunity to Spectral Thief and their need to boost multiple times to sweep, they often need to use disruption (e.g. Spore, Substitute, Taunt) instead of coverage.

Precisely because Shell Smashers often forgo coverage for disruption, Dark-types are viable for completely blocking some Psychic-type Shell Smasher movesets and often resisting Power Trip. I recommend Magic Bounce or Comatose for also hosing Entrainment Normalize Calyrex-Shadow, although Techno Blast can sting. A Dark-type with an immunity to Ground/Normal such as Yveltal or Spiritomb has some utility against teams with no Shell Smashers because it can switch into OHKO moves, although Spiritomb loses to Obstagoon, especially when switched into Obstagoon.

Because opponents will try hazard stacking (especially Comaphazer-using opponents), I personally believe that packing a hazard-controlling move is mandatory. Rapid Spin is probably the most common one because you can use it while Taunted, it removes only hazards on your side, it speed boosts, and it has an insanely high 64 PP (thus letting you PP stall in emergencies), although I'm sure Court Change is viable.

Be aware that any plan that takes too long to KO an opponent leaves you open to OHKO moves. This is why slower sets like the Perish Song Trapper and the Leech Seed Taunt Trapper often use Substitute.

Your team should hopefully have multiple plans for dealing with opposing Substitute. Substitute punishes OHKO moves quite hard, although you can still use OHKO moves in desperation. Phazing moves remove Subs, while strong enough regular attacks (e.g. Bolt Beak, Anchor Shot, Knock Off, Lava Plume, Double Iron Bash, Precipice Blades, Thousand Arrows) can wipe out opposing non-Eternamax Subs, Night Shade/Seismic Toss/Nature's Madness wipes out any Sub in 1-2 shots (Nature's Madness is unreliable when your opponent has little HP), Spectral Thief, Ghost Curse, and Perish Song bypass Sub (and so does Gulp Missile on Cramorant-Gorging), and Taunt/Encore can force Sub users to switch out.

If you're desperate, don't be afraid to Dynamax. While Dynamaxed, opposing OHKO and phazing moves fail, and you can get some surprise KOs that way. Don't be afraid to switch out your Dynamaxed mon early if you'll lose massive momentum by not switching it out.

More set-specific tips:

• Comaphazer Regieleki can be used as a blanket check to most Shell Smashers that have only boosted once (except any that outspeed at this point such as Calyrex-Shadow) by phazing them out, thus giving the Comaphazer some utility when you cannot get hazards up.
• If your side has no hazards and your opponent Comaphazes you anyway, let them waste PP and phaze your Magic Bouncer in.
• Assume Cramorant-Gorging always has Gulp Missile - and that it therefore is the paralysis-inducing, chip-damaging, Neutralizing Gas-ignoring, often Taunting fiend Balanced Hackmons ejected for screwing up gameplay. As a result, if your opponent has Cramorant-Gorging and it is not KOed, be very cautious about using any move that can hit Cramorant-Gorging when using any mon that hates paralysis even if the bird is currently switched out. Among other sets, this means that you have to play your own Choice Scarf non-Regieleki-non-Comatose, Taunt OHKOer, Leech Seed Taunt Trapper, and your own Cramorant-Gorging very carefully. (Shell Smashers ironically deal with Cramorant-Gorging OK by OHKOing it, although Cramorant-Gorging often has teammates that take advantage of paralyzed sweepers.)
• Any lead needs to be able to deal with opposing leads, whether it's by outspeeding most of them and packing disruption and hazards such as Regieleki, restricting opposing options such as Calyrex-Shadow, or being too bulky to break in some fashion such as Eternamax. Thus, any remaining unorthodox leads need an edge (preferably over Regieleki) to remain viable. Thus, suspect any remaining Zacian-Crowned leads to have Choice Scarf and Precipice Blades (and thus outspeed and OHKO Regieleki), and treat any lead that can OHKO yours seriously (Calyrex-Shadow leads have dropped in viability due to being OHKOd or close to that by too many Knock Offs and Spectral Thiefs).

 

[Mbouchon]

This thread seems to have slowly died down :[

In a desperate attempt to resuscitate this thread, I'm going to show my personal VR! This is probably more accurate than the previous VR since it hasn't been updated in forever.

(I'm internally ranking as well)

Eternamax Rank
Eternamax (obvious)

S Rank
S+
Regieleki (can take advantage of eternamax being on the field, click ohko when it gets the chance, it can even use conventional attacks like bolt beak to heavily damage non-eternamax mons, comaphazer, taunter, hazard-setter)

S
Zacian-Crowned (scarf lead, ohko user, taunter, hazard-setter, possible comaphazer, great atk + decent bulk, very fast)
Calyrex-Shadow (shell smasher, fast taunter, fringe normalize, spinblocker)

A Rank
A+
Indeedee-M (shell smasher)
Obstagoon (shell smasher)
Giratina (spinblocker, curse, non-shell smasher wall, horn drill/guillotine immunity)

A
Cramorant-Gorging (paraspreader)
Grimmsnarl (magic bounce, shell smash check)

A-
Yveltal (magic bounce, fissure immunity, shell smash soft check)


B Rank
B+
Rayquaza (fissure immunity, shell smasher)
Landorus-T (defensive regieleki check)

B
Spiritomb (magic bounce, horn drill/guillotine immunity, soft check to indeedee/caly-s)
Kyurem-Black (zac-c lure, ohko)

B-
Ho-Oh (zac-c check, ohko)
Aegislash (spinblocker, curse, horn drill/guillotine immunity)

C Rank
C+
Corviknight (fissure immunity, zac-c check)
Gyarados (fissure immunity, soft zac-c check)
Kartana (hits hard, passable physical bulk)

C
Reshiram (zac-c check, ohko)
Kyurem-White (possible shell smasher?)

C-
Mimikyu (disguise, curse)

I might've forgotten a few but if you're reading this it's served its purpose

e: feel free to use this if you need a vr

 

[Ransei]

Due to complications with Partners in Crime regarding lots of difficult bugs to fix, Pure Hackmons will be LCotM for the remainder of this month instead. Have fun .

 

[SkylonBellows]

Literally just getting into this meta, trying to figure out what’s good. I have the obvious Mons like Eternamax and Regieleki, but I’m not entirely sure as to what sets are correct. What I did notice though, is that Sturdinja has decent prowess against Eternamax in an Endeavor + Priority sort of way, but is that actually any good or valuable?

 

[Tmi489]

Literally just getting into this meta, trying to figure out what’s good. I have the obvious Mons like Eternamax and Regieleki, but I’m not entirely sure as to what sets are correct. What I did notice though, is that Sturdinja has decent prowess against Eternamax in an Endeavor + Priority sort of way, but is that actually any good or valuable?

Eternamax benefits from the Overflow glitch; when the game overflows its defense to zero, its treated as having infinite defense. Therefore, Eternamax can use 240 EVs and a positive nature in a defensive stat to gain infinite defenses. SpD is preferred due to Stored Power being super effective. Eternamax can still run a +Speed nature for certain sets, such as for Taunt or Sub.

For moves: OHKO moves, recovery, Sub, hazard (removal), phazing like Whirlwind/Spectral Thief, Taunt, etc. all work well for Eterny. Precipice Blades or Lava Plume are less viable, but hit pokemon like Eleki and Zacian-C. It's pretty flexible, thanks to being so incredibly dominant.

Safety Goggles, Heavy Duty Boots, Black Sludge (with Substitute), or Choice Scarf (with Trick) are all good items. Neutralizing Gas is the most common ability, simply to neutralize other abilities. Comatose is one of the few not blocked by NGas, and Magic Bounce lets you take advantage of opposing Comatose.

Regieleki can run the same moves as Eternamax... largely because there isn't much else that works against the latter. Eleki particularly likes OHKO, Sub, and Taunt. Eleki can run Bolt Beak to threaten non-Eternamax foes. Neutralizing Gas works well. There's another, unique set that allows you to simply prevent the opponent from moving:

Regieleki @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind / Circle Throw / Dragon Tail
- Dynamax Cannon
- Max Flare

Regieleki clicks +0 priority sleep talk, which will always call in a phasing move. Unless the opponent has Magic Bounce, Whirlwind can be kept up for as long as you have Sleep Talk PP, allowing you to chain hazard damage. Circle Throw and Dragon Tail bypass MBounce, but not Suction Cups, have immunities, and can miss.

A thing to note about Sturdinja: Neutralizing Gas removes Sturdy, Wonder Guard, Pure Power, etc. Do not use Sturdyinja. This means that shed will still die in one hit, making it near unviable to use. Eternamax can use Final Gambit (with anti-Substitute measures) to the same effect.

 

[SkylonBellows]

Eternamax benefits from the Overflow glitch; when the game overflows its defense to zero, its treated as having infinite defense. Therefore, Eternamax can use 240 EVs and a positive nature in a defensive stat to gain infinite defenses. SpD is preferred due to Stored Power being super effective. Eternamax can still run a +Speed nature for certain sets, such as for Taunt or Sub.

For moves: OHKO moves, recovery, Sub, hazard (removal), phazing like Whirlwind/Spectral Thief, Taunt, etc. all work well for Eterny. Precipice Blades or Lava Plume are less viable, but hit pokemon like Eleki and Zacian-C. It's pretty flexible, thanks to being so incredibly dominant.

Safety Goggles, Heavy Duty Boots, Black Sludge (with Substitute), or Choice Scarf (with Trick) are all good items. Neutralizing Gas is the most common ability, simply to neutralize other abilities. Comatose is one of the few not blocked by NGas, and Magic Bounce lets you take advantage of opposing Comatose.

Regieleki can run the same moves as Eternamax... largely because there isn't much else that works against the latter. Eleki particularly likes OHKO, Sub, and Taunt. Eleki can run Bolt Beak to threaten non-Eternamax foes. Neutralizing Gas works well. There's another, unique set that allows you to simply prevent the opponent from moving:

Regieleki @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind / Circle Throw / Dragon Tail
- Dynamax Cannon
- Max Flare

Regieleki clicks +0 priority sleep talk, which will always call in a phasing move. Unless the opponent has Magic Bounce, Whirlwind can be kept up for as long as you have Sleep Talk PP, allowing you to chain hazard damage. Circle Throw and Dragon Tail bypass MBounce, but not Suction Cups, have immunities, and can miss.

A thing to note about Sturdinja: Neutralizing Gas removes Sturdy, Wonder Guard, Pure Power, etc. Do not use Sturdyinja. This means that shed will still die in one hit, making it near unviable to use. Eternamax can use Final Gambit (with anti-Substitute measures) to the same effect.

Wow. Those concepts for Etern and Eleki are insane.

I guess what I was thinking is a Sturdy Sash Shed that can nuke one thing tha has Gas, then either swap out if another Gas mon comes in, or be allowed free reign over the field. I guess Etern with Gambit covers the nuke part, but that wouldn’t hold in the long term and would just be a one and done sort of thing, right? I’m perfectly open to you telling me exactly why that isn’t good, by the way, just throwing ideas out there so I can figure out *why* something isn’t effective. Thanks in advance.

 

[assaultdestiny]

Literally just getting into this meta, trying to figure out what’s good. I have the obvious Mons like Eternamax and Regieleki, but I’m not entirely sure as to what sets are correct. What I did notice though, is that Sturdinja has decent prowess against Eternamax in an Endeavor + Priority sort of way, but is that actually any good or valuable?

Sturdninja is not good at all. With Neutralising Gas being everywhere, they ignore your Sturdy, and KO you in return. Even though Shedinja has the advantage of a nice typing in Ghost-, that is let down by the fact that other Ghost-’s overshadow it, like Calyrex-Shadow.
Even though Endeavor might seem appeasing, the fact that a lot of teams incorporate at least one Ghost- let it down. Also, because of the Overflow mechanics, you’ll not be dishing out any damage to opposing Eternamax, making it a waste of a team slot.
So in the end, SturdNinja is not viable at all over here, it’s much better in some Balanced Hackmons Gen (Like USUM BH) where it isn’t banned.

Also, about Regieleki and Eternamax’s good sets, they can have a nice amount of sets. One Eternamax can be a Rapid Spinner, one can set haxards, etc. Usually it’s recommended to have at least one OHKO move on an Eternamax, seeing that it’s one of the only low-risk-high-award strategy to beat opposing Eternamax. It can also carry Substitute + Taunt, which lies a headache to wear down and is very useful too. Because of the Four Moveslot Syndrome, though, it usually is in a shortage of its moves, but seeing that teams incorporate two of them usually, this isn’t a very big problem per se. It can also utilise moves like Spectral Thief and Whirlwind, and also niche moves like Knock Off and Lava Plume, but I don't prefer the latter as it's more like a pre-DLC thing when Zacian-Crowned was much more common. As for items, I prefer Safety Goggles or Black Sludge on it, because of so many Spore's and Sludge increasing its longevity so that it doesn't die to hazard pressure. Neutralising Gas is the ability you'll run 90% of the time, just to shut down other abilities. So what moves and items it should carry depends on your team, you can add it to your post and we can help you!!
Regieleki also usually does an OHKO move, and Taunt. Because of the Four-Moveslot Syndrome, lots of Eternamax tend to run status moves like Substitute and Recover, among others. So Taunt also limits them very much, and they won’t be able to perform what they’re supposed to usually. With Regieleki’s blazing speed, you’ll Taunt almost the whole non-boosted and non-Scarfed meta, limiting them by a lot. Regieleki also carries some sleep inducing move, such as Lovely Kiss or Spore, and hazards in the form of Spikes. Toxic Spikes is unviable as Eternamax just eat them up. As a Sleep inducing move, Lovely Kiss is preferred, as there are loads of Safety Goggles around, blocking your Spore.
Regieleki also runs ComaTalk, which is the combination of Sleep Talk + a Phazing Move, which, in conjunction with entry hazards, can severely damage the opposing team, and shorten a match. It usually carries Sleep Talk / Roar / Whirlwind / Dynamaxer Cannon, and a Choice Scarf. With Comatose (one of the few abilities which is not blocked by Neutralisng Gas) as your ability, you click Sleep Talk, and the minus priority moves in Roar and Whirlwind now move first, because Sleep Talk has no negative priority. Dynamax Cannon is used as it’s one of the few useful moves that can’t be called by Sleep Talk, this making you phaze them almost always.

And ooh yeah, Eternatus also benefits from Overflow.

A discovery has been made in Pokemon Sword and Shield which introduced a limitation. Pokemon in the game can naturally only have a maximum non HP stat of 654. If a Pokemon's stats overflow past this, they reset from 0 and add each additional raw stat point above 655. For example, if a Pokemon has 656 in a non HP stat, their non HP stat becomes 1. If they have 659 in a non HP stat, their stat becomes 3. If they have 780 in a non HP stat, the stat becomes 126, etc. In order for a Pokemon to have their stats overflowed, they must have a base stat higher than 248 on any non HP stat and a beneficial nature on this same stat.

This can make Eternamax invincible in one defense stat, either Physical Defense or Special Defense. Usually people run two to cover both, but one also works (usually SpD), and Max Speed Eternamax also works with Taunt + Substitute.
So ergo, OHKO Moves, Taunt, Phazing etc are very useful here, rather than SturdNinja.

 

[SkylonBellows]

Sturdninja is not good at all. With Neutralising Gas being everywhere, they ignore your Sturdy, and KO you in return. Even though Shedinja has the advantage of a nice typing in Ghost-, that is let down by the fact that other Ghost-’s overshadow it, like Calyrex-Shadow.
Even though Endeavor might seem appeasing, the fact that a lot of teams incorporate at least one Ghost- let it down. Also, because of the Overflow mechanics, you’ll not be dishing out any damage to opposing Eternamax, making it a waste of a team slot.
So in the end, SturdNinja is not viable at all over here, it’s much better in some Balanced Hackmons Gen (Like USUM BH) where it isn’t banned.

Also, about Regieleki and Eternamax’s good sets, they can have a nice amount of sets. One Eternamax can be a Rapid Spinner, one can set haxards, etc. Usually it’s recommended to have at least one OHKO move on an Eternamax, seeing that it’s one of the only low-risk-high-award strategy to beat opposing Eternamax. It can also carry Substitute + Taunt, which lies a headache to wear down and is very useful too. Because of the Four Moveslot Syndrome, though, it usually is in a shortage of its moves, but seeing that teams incorporate two of them usually, this isn’t a very big problem per se. It can also utilise moves like Spectral Thief and Whirlwind, and also niche moves like Knock Off and Lava Plume, but I don't prefer the latter as it's more like a pre-DLC thing when Zacian-Crowned was much more common. As for items, I prefer Safety Goggles or Black Sludge on it, because of so many Spore's and Sludge increasing its longevity so that it doesn't die to hazard pressure. Neutralising Gas is the ability you'll run 90% of the time, just to shut down other abilities. So what moves and items it should carry depends on your team, you can add it to your post and we can help you!!
Regieleki also usually does an OHKO move, and Taunt. Because of the Four-Moveslot Syndrome, lots of Eternamax tend to run status moves like Substitute and Recover, among others. So Taunt also limits them very much, and they won’t be able to perform what they’re supposed to usually. With Regieleki’s blazing speed, you’ll Taunt almost the whole non-boosted and non-Scarfed meta, limiting them by a lot. Regieleki also carries some sleep inducing move, such as Lovely Kiss or Spore, and hazards in the form of Spikes. Toxic Spikes is unviable as Eternamax just eat them up. As a Sleep inducing move, Lovely Kiss is preferred, as there are loads of Safety Goggles around, blocking your Spore.
Regieleki also runs ComaTalk, which is the combination of Sleep Talk + a Phazing Move, which, in conjunction with entry hazards, can severely damage the opposing team, and shorten a match. It usually carries Sleep Talk / Roar / Whirlwind / Dynamaxer Cannon, and a Choice Scarf. With Comatose (one of the few abilities which is not blocked by Neutralisng Gas) as your ability, you click Sleep Talk, and the minus priority moves in Roar and Whirlwind now move first, because Sleep Talk has no negative priority. Dynamax Cannon is used as it’s one of the few useful moves that can’t be called by Sleep Talk, this making you phaze them almost always.

And ooh yeah, Eternatus also benefits from Overflow.

This can make Eternamax invincible in one defense stat, either Physical Defense or Special Defense. Usually people run two to cover both, but one also works (usually SpD), and Max Speed Eternamax also works with Taunt + Substitute.
So ergo, OHKO Moves, Taunt, Phazing etc are very useful here, rather than SturdNinja.

So, as much as I hate literally using 4 Eternatuses, this is where I’m at so far. I think I might be doing something wrong, maybe tossed the ideas into a blender a little too hard.

Regieleki @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Roar
- Dynamax Cannon

Obstagoon @ White Herb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Taunt
- Gastro Acid

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Horn Drill
- Sheer Cold
- Substitute
- Gastro Acid

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Black Sludge
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 240 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Substitute
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit

As I mentioned earlier, if my team sucks and is completely unviable, please tell me! I appreciate the offer to help and just want to have as good a time with a good team as possible.

 

[assaultdestiny]

omg idk why but I have a feeling that this might belong to the RMT Section but reee

Regieleki @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind
- Roar
- Dynamax Cannon

Perfect, nothing to change here.

Obstagoon @ White Herb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- King's Shield
- Gastro Acid

This set is a bit wrong. Obstagoon's main usefulness lies in it's typing, allowing it an immunity to Spectral Thief and Stored Power, and it also gains access to STAB on Power Trip. Now, Obstagoon is used as a mixed sweeper, so that it can hit both Specially and Physically Invincible Eternamax's. But, without Stored Power, you're beating the purpose of running Obstagoon. Also, it doesn't need Prankster, King's Shield, White Herb and Gastro Acid, as they're outclassed by Neutralizing Gas, Spore, Safety Goggles and Stored Power, respectively. So, I'd recommend something like this:

Obstagoon @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Stored Power
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Spore

This is the standard Obstagoon. StoredTrip to tackle both Invincible Eternamax's, and Spore aids in setup. After two Shell Smashes, Power Trip OHKO's Yveltal, and has a very hard hit on Grimmsnarl. Rash Nature is chosen so that the damage output of both Stored Power and Power Trip is not reduced.

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Spectral Thief
- Knock Off

Four Eternamax's make you extremely passive, and if you don't run OHKO Moves on every one of them, you're losing on a lot. So, I'll recommend replacing this with Grimmsnarl, as it serves as out ShadowRex counter, and a soft check to Obstagoon.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Horn Drill
- Recover

Sucker Punch + Knock Off can eliminate Obstagoon after they've lowered their defenses with Shell Smash, plus they're hard hits on ShadowRex and other StoredTrip users, like Indeedee. Horn Drill is preferred over Fissure here, as we're already hitting Ghost- types with our Dark- moves, so even if they do come on in Horn Drill to absorb it, they're gonna be hit very hard with Knock Off. Recover is for longevity, and Safety Goggles is the preferred item here so that ShadowRex and Obstagoon don't doom us into sleep.

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Horn Drill
- Sheer Cold
- Substitute
- Gastro Acid

As I said before, too many Eternamax's make you way too passive. Over here, I'll recommend a Regieleki to set Spikes and Taunt others, so that out ComaTalk Regieleki can have a nice day.

Regieleki @ Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Fissure

I kinda love this Eleki. It works wonders as a lead for you, as Lovely Kiss + Taunt can shut down opposing Eternamax, plus Regieleki if you win the speed tie. Spikes is naturally added here to aid the team as well as the ComaTalk Eleki, and Fissure is preferred over Horn Drill here as then you won't be able to do anything to the likes of Giratina and all.

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Black Sludge
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 240 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Substitute
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt

Substitute + Taunt is usually seen on Max Speed Eternamax, so that you Taunt the opposing Invincible Eternamax without risking a speed tie. And Mold Breaker is outclassed byNeutralizing Gas in terms of usefulness. Therefore, I'll just change the set here:

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 240 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Whirlwind
- Horn Drill
- Rapid Spin

Your hazard removal Eternamax. Safety Goggles is chosen over Black Sludge so that ShadowRex and all won't be able to Spore you and, potentially, sweep your team. The moves speak for themselves, and non-recovery Eternamax is also very nice seeing that the only thing that can hurt you are Physical Attacks, Hazards, OHKO Moves, etc.

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit

Final Gambit as the only move seems meh. Filling out other slots won't have any other issue, would they?

Eternatus-Eternamax @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Stealth Rock
- Final Gambit
- Whirlwind

So this is your Eternamax that can 1v1 one of the opposing Eternamax. Don't Final Gambit without thinking anything though, as they might sack their Regieleki or something. Whirlwind is Whirlwind, Stealth Rock aids the other teammates, especially ComaTalk Eleki and Obstagoon, and Spectral Thief aids you against a lot of mons, especially on ladder where things like Zeraora are used...

Hopefully this helped. I'm quite sure that this might go to RMT, but idk ecks dee.

Click the sprites for an importable!

 

[SkylonBellows]

omg idk why but I have a feeling that this might belong to the RMT Section but reee



Perfect, nothing to change here.



This set is a bit wrong. Obstagoon's main usefulness lies in it's typing, allowing it an immunity to Spectral Thief and Stored Power, and it also gains access to STAB on Power Trip. Now, Obstagoon is used as a mixed sweeper, so that it can hit both Specially and Physically Invincible Eternamax's. But, without Stored Power, you're beating the purpose of running Obstagoon. Also, it doesn't need Prankster, King's Shield, White Herb and Gastro Acid, as they're outclassed by Neutralizing Gas, Spore, Safety Goggles and Stored Power, respectively. So, I'd recommend something like this:



This is the standard Obstagoon. StoredTrip to tackle both Invincible Eternamax's, and Spore aids in setup. After two Shell Smashes, Power Trip OHKO's Yveltal, and has a very hard hit on Grimmsnarl. Rash Nature is chosen so that the damage output of both Stored Power and Power Trip is not reduced.



Four Eternamax's make you extremely passive, and if you don't run OHKO Moves on every one of them, you're losing on a lot. So, I'll recommend replacing this with Grimmsnarl, as it serves as out ShadowRex counter, and a soft check to Obstagoon.



Sucker Punch + Knock Off can eliminate Obstagoon after they've lowered their defenses with Shell Smash, plus they're hard hits on ShadowRex and other StoredTrip users, like Indeedee. Horn Drill is preferred over Fissure here, as we're already hitting Ghost- types with our Dark- moves, so even if they do come on in Horn Drill to absorb it, they're gonna be hit very hard with Knock Off. Recover is for longevity, and Safety Goggles is the preferred item here so that ShadowRex and Obstagoon don't doom us into sleep.



As I said before, too many Eternamax's make you way too passive. Over here, I'll recommend a Regieleki to set Spikes and Taunt others, so that out ComaTalk Regieleki can have a nice day.



I kinda love this Eleki. It works wonders as a lead for you, as Lovely Kiss + Taunt can shut down opposing Eternamax, plus Regieleki if you win the speed tie. Spikes is naturally added here to aid the team as well as the ComaTalk Eleki, and Fissure is preferred over Horn Drill here as then you won't be able to do anything to the likes of Giratina and all.



Substitute + Taunt is usually seen on Max Speed Eternamax, so that you Taunt the opposing Invincible Eternamax without risking a speed tie. And Mold Breaker is outclassed byNeutralizing Gas in terms of usefulness. Therefore, I'll just change the set here:



Your hazard removal Eternamax. Safety Goggles is chosen over Black Sludge so that ShadowRex and all won't be able to Spore you and, potentially, sweep your team. The moves speak for themselves, and non-recovery Eternamax is also very nice seeing that the only thing that can hurt you are Physical Attacks, Hazards, OHKO Moves, etc.



Final Gambit as the only move seems meh. Filling out other slots won't have any other issue, would they?



So this is your Eternamax that can 1v1 one of the opposing Eternamax. Don't Final Gambit without thinking anything though, as they might sack their Regieleki or something. Whirlwind is Whirlwind, Stealth Rock aids the other teammates, especially ComaTalk Eleki and Obstagoon, and Spectral Thief aids you against a lot of mons, especially on ladder where things like Zeraora are used...

Hopefully this helped. I'm quite sure that this might go to RMT, but idk ecks dee.

Click the sprites for an importable!

I’m glad someone has the brains for all this, I doubt I could’ve figured all that out myself. Thanks so much for your help, I’ll get to playing these sets and hopefully it’ll be fun!

 

[Mbouchon]

As there's a comprehensive post far above with tips for good teambuilding, I'm going to focus on what not to use. While I haven't seen what people use on ladder myself, I can imagine that many people have already tried running the likes of Huge Power, No Guard, As One, random attacks... there's a good amount of sets that seem good at first, but are ultimately dead weight against viable teams.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1. Sturdy Shedinja, Burn Up Wonder Guard, Air Balloon Wonder Guard, Huge Power, Imposter, Innards Out, etc.

These strategies fall into one category, as they're all denied any viability by the prevalence of Neutralizing Gas. Shedinja’s too slow to do anything useful, and Burn Up Fire-types don’t do anything special to make meaningful progress against any prominent Pokemon bar Zacian-C. While Wonder Guard Regieleki in particular is fast enough to use Gastro Acid before most opposing Pokémon move, it cannot do much against Magic Bounce Pokemon. The rest can do nothing against Neutralizing Gas Eternamax but spam OHKO moves.


2. Purely Physical/Special Offensive Pokemon

These are made useless by the overflow mechanic, allowing physically/specially defensive opposing Eternamax to switch in and easily wall the attacker. While this can be made more difficult with the usage of OHKO moves, using a Choice Scarf and Tricking the opposing switch-in is generally a much more effective strategy.

Note: Psystrike users are not included, as with the right set they can pressure Eternamax. Two notable users of the move are Indeedee and Calyrex-S.


3. Gastro Acid/Entrainment users

This includes sets like Normalize Calyrex-S and the previously mentioned Air Balloon Wonder Guard Regieleki. Not only are these sets’ viability hampered by opposing faster Pokémon, but opposing Neutralizing Gas Pokemon can just switch if the user has used Gastro Acid. These Pokemon are also hard checked by Magic Bounce Pokemon, which are pretty much necessary due to Comatose not being suppressed by Neutralizing Gas.


4. As One users

One thing I've noticed is that inexperienced players tend to pick up Abilities from playing Anything Goes; As One is no exception.

While Neutralizing Gas does not suppress As One, Magic Bounce Pokemon will prevent any disruption that the As One user will try to use, such as Taunt or Spore. In addition to this, the boosts that said users will gain from this Ability don’t really help, as the user must be strong enough to offensively pressure Eternamax anyway.


5. Six Neutralizing Gas Eternamax

This is an archetype that I’ve seen many newer players (prior to the OMOtM ladder) attempt to use. Unfortunately for Eternamax, it lacks the typing and Speed for six of it to be used effectively; it’s not immune to any OHKO move and gets taken advantage of by faster Pokemon. Taunt Regieleki/Zacian-C/Calyrex-S can take advantage of this all too easily. Comatose + Sleep Talk runs over Eternamax, further hindering this strategy.

e: Players shouldn’t be running four or five Eternamax either, as even then their teams are too passive and get taken advantage of by faster Pokemon. Two Eternamax is probably the optimal number to run; they can create a physically and specially invincible core, while other Pokemon on the team can sufficiently pressure Eternamax and other prominent Pokemon.


6. Full OHKO

A lot of teams I've seen from inexperienced players also tend to use many OHKO moves on each Pokemon. This doesn't add much utility to having one OHKO move, and utility moves like Spectral Thief/Knock Off/Rapid Spin/Taunt/Spikes, etc can be used instead.

Note: Sheer Cold has 20% accuracy when used by a non-Ice type, which are basically non-existent here. Use Fissure/Horn Drill/Guillotine instead!

 

[supermario1096]

I know that people here came for the teams to use in tours so if they ban neutralizing gas take an advantage!
Have no guard (ability) on regieleki (fastest) U may also use scarf on it
so no guard is the ability which makes u hit any move . for example normally fissure's accuracy is 30% but with this ability the accuracy of fissure is now infinite which means u cannot possibly miss a move.
The only counter for this ability is neutralizing gas.

So the next one we are gonna talk about is WONDER GUARD:

Wonder guard description: Wonder Guard prevents damage from direct attacks unless they are super-effective
How to use this properly in pure hackmons?!
NO.1 don't choose a Pokémon with many weaknesses
Eg: Tyranitar Necrozema and most of the grass Pokémons

No.2 Use it effectively
So! how to u may ask
for example lets take zeraroa which is a electric type Pokémon which has only one weakness : GROUND
Lets take Air balloon which avoid ground moves unless and until it is popped by a attacking move
but only if the move is successful so having wonder guard with air balloon on zeraroa there is no way of loosing a single HP (unless and until they use a indirect move eg: toxic will-o-wisp and more)
So definitely try it and forgot to mention if neutralizing gas is not banned its ok to have 1 or 2 Pokémons having one of these abilities but if you have a whole bunch of them it is a total waste
but if it is it is banned it is worth it see you guys next time cya

By: Harshad B10

btw also forgot to mention moves like photon geyser and sunsteel strike + mold breaker (ability)
Will ignore the abilities of the opposing Pokémon

Air Balloon can be taken out by Thousand Arrows.

 

[Pikachu_fan4820]

oh yeah guys for the overload glitch you need exactly 240 evs and the postive nature if you go over that then you actually wind up with horrible def/spdef

 

[bonk]

Doing alright with a regieleki team.

Peak Rank 63 Proof

Here's the pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/fd8167f391a5fb3f

Basically taunt and get up hazards, use your two comatose sleep talk sets to spread damage and net some KOs and forfeits, then try to get into a checkmate situation with the No Guard or Wonder Guard set.

Posting cause my work week is about to start and I won't have time to ladder anyway. If I'm lucky, the team can get to 1500+, but then it should lose up there with this anyway (the team needs more eternamax and doggo)


EDIT: Also been seeing a lot of burn up+wonder guard sets again. Guys stop, they suck, and they suck even more when Regieleki is a better wonder guard mon.


EDIT 2: Yeah I was right, it can get to 1500

1500+ peak proof

ggs to all! I probably can't use Regieleki spam if I want to break 1600


EDIT 3: Last reminder that Burn Up + Wonder Guard is bad. See below:

Today I wanted to talk about a particular strategy that's been commonly used and really should not be used at all.


Wonder Guard + Burn Up - Gen 8 Edition
This strategy is useless. Don't use it.


Typically the idea is, you take a pure Fire-type, give it Wonder Guard, and then give it Burn Up so it becomes typeless and immune to everything. This in return gives the thought that doing this makes these Wonder Guards invincible and so they'd be set, ready to stay in, and ready to stall their way through the rest of the game.

In the competitive scene from the last few gens that was never what Wonder Guards were used for and more often than not they were forced to switch out after a couple turns of staying in. If this were Gen 7 this would already be the best reason to not use Burn Up but the case is different for Gen 8. Here, Wonder Guards can only be effective if they can stay in and are able to do so in against plenty of targets as long as they have Gastro Acid and any speed boosting move. A trapping move is also preferable.

Here are what makes Burn Up pointless:

1. You have to use Burn Up in order to change a Wonder Guard from having a bad-typing to a good one. This means when it's sent out it has to take one extra step than Wonder Guards with better typings in order to be "effective". If you have to change a Wonder Guard's typing in order for it to be good, it is not a good Wonder Guard.

2. Burn Up limits Pokemon out of moves that help better Wonder Guards be effective. In this gen, in order for particular Wonder Guards to be effective, they have to be carrying Gastro Acid. Afterwards they tend to be carrying three extra moves which in turn tend to either be trap + perish song + rapid spin or shell smash + stored power/power trip + coverage in the higher fields of competitive. Using Burn Up means you have to run Burn Up and Gastro Acid, which takes up two turns before it could theoretically start being effective and that's assuming you don't get phazed out, get gastro acid'd on, or your gastro acid doesn't get bounced. From the get-go you've essentially doubled the opportunities your opponent has to deal with the Wonder Guard set. Not to mention these Pokemon start lacking moves that make better Wonder Guards thrive. What would they be having as their last two? Shell Smash + Stored Power? Every Dark-type walls that and even Aegislash can switch in and haze it out since Burn Up could no longer be used. Anchor Shot/Octolock + Perish Song? The fastest Pure Fire-type gets outsped by the Eternamax and Zacian-Crowned who are everywhere and have all sorts of sets against this strategy. You wouldn't have anything to boost your speed and Gastro Acid them before they attack you. Rapid Spin + Fissure/Horn Drill? Zacian-Crowned and Eternamax do this better without having to be Wonder Guard as with Neutralizing Gas, they are able to hit and OHKO anything already. These are just examples of what sets would sound reasonable for this strategy. Most generally have nothing to offer for the table and are rather unable to take down either of those two Pokemon.

3) Burn Up has to hit to have any effect. Any other Wonder Guard who switches in stops you from becoming typeless and after trying Gastro Acid against Neutralizing Gas, you may have to take both turns again of Gastro Acid and Burn Up for the strategy to work. If the target has two Wonder Guards, they could PP stall you out of Gastro Acid. If they just have one they could do the same with Neutralizing Gas + Wonder Guard.

4) Any standard PH team innately prepares for it. Wonder Guards aren't the most solid in Gen 8 Hackmons but can be threatening sometimes due to their considerable combination of four moves. The movepool restriction Burn Up gets just from being there makes it hardly possible (if even possible) to threaten any real PH team. Most solid teams are going to have a lot of Pokemon faster than Cinderace (the fastest Burn Up user) and a lot of Pokemon are going to have Neutralizing Gas to suppress and damage Wonder Guard. These faster Pokemon are not only able to do raw damage, but Taunt them out of using Gastro Acid or sub in front of them. These Burn Up users don't have room for Substitute so any Magic Bounce user could erase their ability on a simple prediction. They also might not have room for Magic Coat. Wonder Guards like Seismitoad, Obstagoon, and Zeraora who all have better typings are also able to work their way around these counteractions more by having an extra move over Burn Up. Zeraora could use Substitute so it could get punished less by Gastro Acid, Seismitoad is able to Magic Coat more to avoid Taunt and other Gastro Acid users while both Seismitoad and Obstagoon are able to use moves that boost their speed and allow them to Gastro Acid first all of the time. (Zeraora is already fast enough unless it's against Zac-C or Ninjask)

These are some reasons why Burn Up should never be considered on a team in Pure Hackmons. There may be a lot more but here's my summary:
These Pokemon become sitting ducks in the battlefield, are unable to perform any role proficiently, and give too many opportunities for any solid team to perform their own role and win the game.

I also wanted to clarify that while these are particularly common, they are only common at the very bottom of PH ladder but nevertheless are sometimes often suggested and posted around everywhere because newer players believe this is a solid strategy due to how good the idea looks good on paper.

EDIT 4: More people need to run Thousand Arrows

 

[supermario1096]

EDIT 4: More people need to run Thousand Arrows

Exactly.

 

[ISuspectNothing]

I have enjoyed playing BH during the last days and my team proved to be quite successful, getting me into the top-ten with a win rate of something like 51-4.

https://pokepast.es/a6476f6589762083

Master Hand (Eternatus-Eternamax) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
- Poison Fang
- Recover
- Stealth Rock
- Teleport

My main switchin against OHKO move users, sets hazards and walls physical attackers. Poison Fang has been quite useful to put some Regielekis and other on-Eternatuses on a timer, but I am considering switching it out for something like Will-O-Wisp, Leech Seed, an OHKO move or something else. Switching out Teleport for U-turn allows it to escape a trapper even after taunted, but I found the negative priority of teleport more useful than avoiding Taunt.

Elektron (Regieleki) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sheer Cold
- Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Gastro Acid

No Guard OHKO, of course. Also gains momentum by setting hazards against Sturdy or NGas Eternatuses, and acts as a fast pivot.

Zacian-Crowned @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
- Fissure
- Spectral Thief

This is the most likely mon I will switch out, most likely to something not weak to ground like Regigigas to not get bopped by Fissure. Despite NGas being so common, it has been a quite solid answer to many set-up mons and a secondary check to OHKO users; also clears hazards for the team.

Crazy Hand (Eternatus-Eternamax) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 240 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Fissure
- Knock Off
- Substitute
- Spectral Thief

Standard NGas Eternatus, overflowed on the special side. Sub is an amazing move, blocking status and opposing OHKO moves and grants additional turns to fish for Fissure kills. Thief stops setup and Knock Off gets rid of Boots on opposing mons.

Positron (Regieleki) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Horn Drill
- Entrainment / Gastro Acid
- Nuzzle / Substitute / Volt Switch
- Recover

I have seen quite some MBounce users, but I think Eleki might be the best one; the reason is that with its fast Entrainment it can remove opposing NGas or other abilities before the enemy acts. Many mons thought they were safe and clicked hazards only to get Entrained first and have their hazards bounced back. Nuzzle is useful status, while sub always is useful in PH with all these OHKO moves flying around. Also, an Eleki that doesn't announce NGas on switch-in always raises suspicion as it very well might be a No Guard set, making MBounce at the right moment (bouncing back a crucial Spore, Gastro Acid...) an even better surprise.

Master Hand (Eternatus-Eternamax) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Perish Song
- Teleport
- Encore
- Leech Seed / Spikes / Anchor Shot / Gastro Acid

With NGas being so prevalent, trapping is something I've seen many teams not properly preparing for. For this Eternatus I went with a speed-boosting nature to outspeed opposing overflowed Eternatuses with Encore. I am not sure what move to use in the last slot, all of them can be useful. Also, this is the only Safety Giggles user in my team, but so far, that actually has been enough to deal with Spore. The fact that this Eternatus has the same given nickname as the first one and doesn't announce its ability on switch-in either, unlike the third Eternatus's NGas, can be confusing for opponents and lead to mind-games.

 

[Mbouchon]

As we're nearing the end of this Pure Hackmons ladder period, I feel like I should post a couple of ideas that I haven't had the chance to try out.

As the post above says, I think that trapping is largely unexplored in the metagame so far. Here's a set that I theorymonned and created a team around:



Zacian-Crowned @ Leftovers / Safety Goggles
Ability: Suction Cups
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Perish Song
- Taunt
- Recover

I stress that I haven't had any playtesting with this set so far. There may be a more optimal moveset that I haven't gotten to thinking about.

Pure Hackmons players chiefly use Magic Bounce as a Comatose + Sleep Talk counter, as switching into a Magic Bounce Pokemon will bounce back any Roars or Whirlwinds called by Sleep Talk. I think that Suction Cups may have a niche on faster Pokemon with enough bulk to reliably set up trapping, namely Zacian-Crowned. Zacian-Crowned's Fairy type also prevents the very rare Comatose set running Dragon Tail over Roar/Whirlwind from forcing it out.

As the post above also says, in Hackmons, when a Pokemon's Ability is not apparent when it switches into the field it is generally safe to assume that said Pokemon has No Guard; thus, the opposing Pokemon will often switch into a Neutralizing Gas Pokemon. This set aims to take advantage of that, using Anchor Shot on the switch and trapping opposing Eternamax. Taunt severely restricts Eternamax's ability to defend itself, KOing common Eternamax sets reliably.

I guess running a set similar to this on Calyrex-S could work (as it prevents opposing Eternamax boosting its Speed with Rapid Spin, and blocks Final Gambit), although Spectral Thief and Knock Off would be problematic.



Another set I've been looking at for a bit, but haven't battled with, is a Comatose one:



Zamazenta-Crowned @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind / Roar / Circle Throw / Dragon Tail
- Max Flare
- Focus Punch

Comatose Zamazenta-Crowned is a funny Pokemon in my builder that I wanted to mention. Its Fighting/Steel typing gives it a 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, allowing it to switch into the hazard much more easily than other potential Comatose users. It also has a decent speed tier; with a Jolly nature and a Choice Scarf it can still outspeed Regieleki despite having a slower natural speed stat than Eternamax.

Sleep Talk and Whirlwind/Roar are staples on any Comatose + Sleep Talk set. Circle Throw can be run for the STAB, but I personally prefer Dragon Tail due to being able to hit Giratina, Calyrex-S, and the rare Spiritomb. Max Flare 3HKOes Zacian-Crowned. Focus Punch is a move that's not called by Sleep Talk, and it has STAB when Zamazenta-Crowned uses it. It can hit surprisingly hard:

252 Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zacian-Crowned: 177-208 (45.6 - 53.6%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 291-343 (79.9 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO; it has a chance to OHKO after setting up Stealth Rock/at least one layer of Spikes


Again, these are just a couple of ideas that I had. I have no idea if they'll have any impact on the metagame.

Lastly, I'd like to make it clear that there's still a lot to uncover in Pure Hackmons. I'm excited to see what sets people can innovate!

 

[Mbouchon]

I forgot that I actually have one more set to showcase:



Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trick
- Double Iron Bash / Sunsteel Strike
- Precipice Blades / Bolt Beak
- Fissure

Set details that are different from the standard set are bolded.

This set tries luring in common Magic Bounce Pokemon in Grimmsnarl and Yveltal and deal major damage to them. Double Iron Bash is an easily spammable STAB move that, with Choice Band, 2HKOes the entire unresisted metagame bar Eternamax (yes, even Giratina). Precipice Blades OHKOes Regieleki even without a Choice Band, and Fissure pressures physically defensive Eternamax.

An Adamant nature gives a much better chance of OHKOing opposing Zacian-Crowned with Precipice Blades and allows it to 2HKO Giratina with Double Iron Bash. Comatose is used over Neutralizing Gas for exactly that, making it difficult for the opponent to tell whether Zacian-Crowned is a Comatose + Sleep Talk set or not. Choice Band + Trick works much the same as Choice Scarf + Trick; one just has to play a little more cautiously to prevent a powerful physical attacker from acquiring a 1.5x multiplier. While this is eccentric for a metagame set, I guess Sunsteel Strike is an option to damage rare Wonder Guard Pokemon, notably removing Wonder Guard Regieleki's Air Balloon. Bolt Beak over Precipice Blades allows Zacian-Crowned to super effectively damage the likes of Yveltal, and Cramorant-Gorging; Double Iron Bash hits Regieleki for a ton of damage with a Choice Band, anyway.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 294-348 (64.6 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spiritomb: 270-320 (89.1 - 105.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 252-296 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl: 744-880 (188.8 - 223.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 624-735 (171.4 - 201.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 554-654 (121.7 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zacian-Crowned Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zacian-Crowned: 267-315 (68.8 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This concept can also be applied to the most common Comaphazer, Regieleki:




Regieleki @ Choice Band
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Bolt Beak
- V-Create / Precipice Blades / Glacial Lance
- Fissure

This set works similarly to the above set, just optimized for a different Pokemon. As Regieleki is the most common Comatose + Sleep Talk user, opponents will be less likely to suspect that it's in fact running a different, offensive set. While a Jolly nature can be used to speed tie other Regieleki while still reliably OHKOing them with Precipice Blades, I'd probably prefer an Adamant nature to nearly always OHKO Zacian-Crowned with V-Create.

Trick and Bolt Beak are self-explanatory; the latter 2HKOes most of the unresisted metagame, and is generally free to spam against most teams. V-Create hits opposing Steel-types super effectively and has a chance to OHKO opposing Regieleki. Precipice Blades does the same and reliably OHKOes the same Pokemon; however, it fails to OHKO opposing Zacian-Crowned. Glacial Lance is an option I find interesting, though I've never really seen it in this metagame; it hits Landorus and Giratina super effectively. Fissure pressures Eternamax.

Some More Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 225-266 (61.8 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zacian-Crowned: 273-322 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl: 357-421 (90.8 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 566-668 (124.3 - 146.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 318-375 (87.3 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zacian-Crowned: 386-456 (99.4 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regieleki: 425-500 (116.7 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Zacian-Crowned: 256-303 (65.9 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Glacial Lance vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 492-580 (129.1 - 152.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Glacial Lance vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 184-218 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

e: sorry for the double post