Metagame Pure Hackmons

Ransei

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I feel for this meta specifically there is a huge gap bewteen A+ tier and everythig below.B rank could be completely vacant since anything ranked under it is so much weaker than eternamax/zacc,heavily agree with bahamut points onthis.Also i think ninjask is rated too low it has some good niche uses due to its speed.I dont see why grimmsnarl is ranked in the same tier with umbreon/mandibuzz it lacks a lot of bulk and doesnt resist fissure.It has higher atk so maybe it can dynamax vs setup psychic types/kyuw?not sure here but i think umb/mandi should be ranked higher
Grimmsnarl has mostly been seen to be mostly as effective as Mandibuzz and Umbreon (at least from tmi's and my experience), but its role over the other two is simply having a fairy-typing. Eternamax is one of the most prominent shell smash users in the metagame and a lot of them tend to run dynamax cannon and dragon darts, for which Grimmsnarl is able to help for. While Grimmsnarl doesn't actually have as much bulk as Umbreon or Mandibuzz we found it mostly hardwalls the same stuff that it needs to hardwall in order for it to be successful and we couldn't find a reason to put it noticeably lower on the VR.
 

Ransei

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Hey, it's been some time and on one of my few last posts I've mentioned wanting to bring up more details about the usage stats. There's a couple interesting things I've noticed regarding particular Pokemon who were common on 1760.

Here are the 1760 moveset usage stats: https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-02/moveset/gen8purehackmons-1760.txt. These are based off glicko.

The first and main thing I've noticed was how Ninjask was being used. Most of the high ladder Ninjask sets were No Guard with OHKO moves

:ss/ninjask:
Ninjask |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 53322 |
| Avg. weight: 0.0120766071289 |
| Viability Ceiling: 85 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| No Guard 51.305% |
| Neutralizing Gas 27.790% |
| Comatose 12.222% |
| Speed Boost 1.978% |
| Prankster 1.323% |
| Shadow Tag 1.023% |
| Other 4.359% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Focus Sash 34.071% |
| Choice Scarf 31.811% |
| Leftovers 25.167% |
| Heavy-Duty Boots 3.988% |
| Other 4.963% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Hasty:252/252/252/252/252/252 26.602% |
| Jolly:248/252/252/0/252/252 21.658% |
| Jolly:252/252/252/0/252/252 10.115% |
| Jolly:252/252/252/252/252/252 8.920% |
| Timid:252/0/252/0/252/252 5.770% |
| Timid:252/252/252/252/252/252 5.679% |
| Other 21.256% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Sheer Cold 48.066% |
| Fissure 40.244% |
| Guillotine 32.329%
| Baton Pass 27.812% |
| Substitute 27.013% |
| Hypnosis 20.977% |
| Horn Drill 15.806% |
| Gastro Acid 15.234% |
| Sleep Talk 13.103% |
| Nothing 12.641%

As you could see, the most common ability for Ninjask was No Guard and the most common move was Sheer Cold. Based on this sort of information, it is safe to conclude the skill floor for 1760 glicko on the Pure Hackmons ladder was pretty low. This makes sense considering this equates to ~76% GXE and Pure Hackmons just happens to be one of the easiest ladders one get this achievement in. The skill gap in this format is enormous. People who know of the metagame would very easily make 80 GXE and people who don't would struggle to make 70 or make it past 60. For newer players, learning how to use the sample teams on this thread would significantly increase their GXE beyond the 1760 glicko range.

There are numerous problems with Ninjask's usage here. For one, Sheer Cold isn't as useful as the other OHKO moves in the Gen 8 Pure Hackmons. One reason for this is because Neutralizing Gas eliminates No Guard from the field already, so one would have to rely on using the 30% accuracy OHKO move. However, this is not truly the case with Sheer Cold. Since Generation 7, every time Sheer Cold is used by a non Ice-type Pokemon without No Guard, its accuracy becomes 20%, hitting even less efficiently than all three other OHKO moves. Sheer Cold is also less efficient in Generation 8 thanks to the presence of Kyurem-White. Kyurem-White is one of the best sweepers in the metagame because it's able to dish out the most damage against Eternamax and any Sheer Cold Ninjask mostly gives Kyurem-White a free opportunity to switch in. Secondly, Ninjask is relying on No Guard + OHKO moves in a generation where No Guard can only be used after a turn of Gastro Acid. Otherwise, Ninjask would have to stand and risk missing an OHKO move. While the risk factors of missing an OHKO move this gen are relatively low thanks to Eternamax and Zacian-Crowned's typing and bulk, Ninjask strongly holds up as an exception. Ninjask has 61/45/50 defenses, which means Ninjask often gets OHKOed within the next turn after it misses an OHKO move or even uses Gastro Acid. With the immense amount of Double Iron Bash Zacian-Crowned, Shell Smash Eternamax, and other Shell Smash sweepers being present, OHKO Ninjask stands very little of a chance.

Funnily enough, here's the third thing:
| Nothing 12.641%
| Spore 12.550% |
| Whirlwind 11.870% |
| U-turn 10.342% |
| Roar 8.698% |
| Stealth Rock 7.661% |
| Spiky Shield 5.350% |
| Spite 5.211% |
| Taunt 4.146% |
| Rapid Spin 4.126% |
| Copycat 4.115% |
| Spikes 2.731%

"Nothing" is more common of a move for Ninjask on the 1760 glicko usage stats than almost all of the moves Ninjask is best usable with. This includes hazards like Stealth Rock, moves that work with Comatose such as Whirlwind or Roar, and moves like Spore or Taunt that prevent the opposing Pokemon from setting up. Even Sleep Talk, although it's not less common, is barely above "Nothing" at a staggering 13.103%. In summary, Ninjask's usage must've been dominated by the low to bottom end of Pure Hackmons mid ladder.

:ss/dragapult:
Dragapult's usage must've also been affected by mid ladder, but to a much smaller extent.
Dragapult |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 19158 |
| Avg. weight: 0.0286106358975 |
| Viability Ceiling: 89 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Normalize 54.253% |
| Neutralizing Gas 38.596% |
| No Guard 2.225% |
| Comatose 0.783% |
| Shadow Tag 0.748% |
| Huge Power 0.707% |
| Other 2.688% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Ghost Memory 33.938% |
| Lum Berry 25.086% |
| Focus Sash 11.526% |
| Ground Memory 8.752% |
| Leftovers 7.056% |
| Choice Scarf 3.519% |
| Mental Herb 3.332% |
| Dragon Memory 2.990% |
| Other 3.801% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Jolly:252/252/252/0/252/252 48.147% |
| Jolly:248/252/252/0/252/252 25.366% |
| Adamant:252/252/252/0/252/252 6.127% |
| Jolly:252/252/252/252/252/252 5.229% |
| Jolly:252/0/252/0/252/252 3.567% |
| Timid:252/0/252/252/252/252 2.510% |
| Other 9.054% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Entrainment 53.712% |
| Multi-Attack 46.484% |
| Shell Smash 45.126% |


While the Normalize Ghost Memory set does look good on paper it's not very good in this format. Dragapult does get the benefit of passing over Normalize to Neutralizing Gas Pokemon in order to force them out and set up on its own, but it's often still very weak after these boosts. Eternamax walls it because it's not a super effective move and Dragapult's base attack is only 120. The item also makes Dragapult prone to being taunted or spored and Magic Bounce, which is nigh mandatory on most high ladder teams, just completely destroys this set. When you combine all of these aspects what you get is a Pokemon prone to not being able to have any real impact on the battlefield. The main thing Dragapult should do is be a fast hazard setter, which could work since it's not too frail and is immune to Rapid Spin.

Enough about usage stats influenced by the agents of mid ladder, there's also another thing I wanted to point out.

:ss/gourgeist-super:
On a generally more positive note, a lot of the usage stats here were greatly influenced by the sample teams!

For example, take a look at Gourgeist-Super
21 | Gourgeist-Super | 2.40183% | 288 | 0.345% | 245 | 0.642% |

It had over 2.4% usage in the entire metagame, however...

Gourgeist-Super |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 317 |
| Avg. weight: 0.193477035008 |
| Viability Ceiling: 87 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Neutralizing Gas 100.000% |
| Imposter 0.000% |
| Wonder Guard 0.000% |
| Thick Fat 0.000% |
| Frisk 0.000% |
| Drought 0.000% |
| Other 0.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Mental Herb 100.000% |
| Other 0.000% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Careful:252/252/252/0/252/252 75.274% |
| Impish:252/252/252/0/252/252 21.247% |
| Other 3.479% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Stealth Rock 100.000% |
| Spore 99.468% |
| Knock Off 97.053% |
| Rapid Spin 97.053% |
| Other 6.426% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Teammates |
| Reshiram +40.643% |
| Grimmsnarl +39.657% |
| Obstagoon +26.571% |
| Zamazenta-Crowned +24.129% |
| Sableye +20.444% |
| Mimikyu +12.922% |
| Zamazenta +12.467% |
| Gyarados +10.391% |
| Indeedee-F +9.727% |
| Seismitoad +1.391% |
| Indeedee +1.012% |
+----------------------------------------+

Every single Gourgeist-Super set on 1760 were either from the Pumpkin Party sample team or just me trying out different things. It is the only Pokemon in the entire 1760 glicko meta with at least 1% usage while carrying no other ability than Neutralizing Gas. It's also possibly the only Pokemon in the top 100 whose only ability was Neutralizing Gas, with the exception of Gourgeist-Large, which I was the only one running that far up on ladder.

:ss/reshiram:
| Reshiram |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 1599 |
| Avg. weight: 0.0339294457757 |
| Viability Ceiling: 87 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Shadow Tag 58.550% |
| Neutralizing Gas 34.660% |
| Contrary 2.623% |
| No Guard 2.028% |
| Wonder Guard 0.893% |
| Turboblaze 0.483% |
| Other 0.763% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Choice Scarf 58.941% |
| Focus Sash 30.892% |
| Life Orb 4.013% |
| Leftovers 2.503% |
| Other 3.651% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Timid:252/252/252/252/252/252 38.474% |
| Modest:252/0/252/252/252/252 35.120% |
| Naive:252/252/252/252/252/252 20.315% |
| Hardy:252/252/252/252/252/252 2.873% |
| Other 3.217% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Blue Flare 60.942% |
| Fissure 58.550% |
| Trick 58.550% |
| Wish 58.309% |
| Shell Smash 35.654% |
| Dynamax Cannon 35.577% |
| Spore 30.785% |
| V-create 27.876% |
| Eruption 3.910% |
| Steel Beam 3.680% |
| Fusion Flare 3.015% |
| Draco Meteor 2.670% |
| Focus Blast 2.028% |
| Other 18.452% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Teammates |
| Grimmsnarl +50.116% |
| Gourgeist-Super +47.692% |
| Reshiram +14.607% |
| Eternatus-Eternamax +6.419% |
| Gourgeist-Large +2.934% |
+----------------------------------------+

Most Reshiram sets in the mid to high ladder meta were from the Pumpkin Party sample set as well, with all moves, the ability, and item from that Reshiram having at least over 20% higher in usage than anything outside the sample.

:ss/Dragapult:
Dragapult |
+----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 19158 |
| Avg. weight: 0.0286106358975 |
| Viability Ceiling: 89 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Abilities |
| Normalize 54.253% |
| Neutralizing Gas 38.596% |
| No Guard 2.225% |
| Comatose 0.783% |
| Shadow Tag 0.748% |
| Huge Power 0.707% |
| Other 2.688% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Items |
| Ghost Memory 33.938% |
| Lum Berry 25.086% |
| Focus Sash 11.526% |
| Ground Memory 8.752% |
| Leftovers 7.056% |
| Choice Scarf 3.519% |
| Mental Herb 3.332% |
| Dragon Memory 2.990% |
| Other 3.801% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Spreads |
| Jolly:252/252/252/0/252/252 48.147% |
| Jolly:248/252/252/0/252/252 25.366% |
| Adamant:252/252/252/0/252/252 6.127% |
| Jolly:252/252/252/252/252/252 5.229% |
| Jolly:252/0/252/0/252/252 3.567% |
| Timid:252/0/252/252/252/252 2.510% |
| Other 9.054% |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Entrainment 53.712% |
| Multi-Attack 46.484% |
| Shell Smash 45.126% |
| Substitute 42.690% |
| Rapid Spin 31.279% |
| Stealth Rock 30.439% |
| Spore 29.123% |
| Knock Off 28.091% |

Even Dragapult's usage was affected! With the 1760 ladder if you look below the Normalize set usage, the set from Birth of A Titan is all directly below. All four moves, the ability, and the item were right under the casual Ghost Memory Normalize set.

These are just a few examples of Pokemon whose usages were highly influenced by samples. There are plenty more including from popular teams that weren't put on this thread's second post. Several more examples are the Dawn Wings from the original Birth of A Titan, the Mandibuzz from Anchored, the Indeedee from Birth of a Titan, the bad Dragapult from the team pokeaim gave for players to use, made by PunkPalkia, and the Umbreon which was also from PunkPalkia's team. It was stunning seeing how these usage stats turned out and there were a lot of things I saw that I could've never came to expect. Was there anything that surprised you while looking at these stats?
 

Ransei

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Other Metas Leader
Hey, it's been some time. I'm triple-posting since no one has posted here in the last two weeks. Perhaps this post can be used to spark some discussion.

Now as if we all already didn't know, Pure Hackmons is an extremely centralizing metagame. What does that mean? It means I'm bringing up the same group of Pokemon I've always been posting about here. Today, I want to add in explanations regarding the Pokemon currently in the Eternamax and S ranks on the VR.

Both of the Pokemon below are ones who currently shape up the entire Gen 8 metagame the most. Nearly everything else used either focuses on checking these Pokemon or focuses on supporting them. There will be a part two made sometime in the future for the Pokemon in A+ rank because they also follow in this description.

Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax
To put it bluntly, Eternamax is Gen 8 Pure Hackmons as a Pokemon. With an immense BST of 1125 including defenses higher than Ultra Necrozma's entire statspread combined, it has been left with no other choice but to embody the entire metagame. Everything in Pure Hackmons revolves around finding ways to defeat this beast whether it's through the use of OHKO moves, Shell Smash + Super Effective Psychic-type/Dragon-type/Ice-type STAB attacks, Perish Song, Comaphazing, or Final Gambit. These methods are often made into full-on strategies used in complete teams to win because this Pokemon's presence single-handedly makes them the best wincons. On top of this teams without Eternatus-Eternamax are almost always inherently put into a disadvantage due to it being the only Pokemon being capable of dealing with the entire rest of the metagame. Other Pokemon in this format have extremely high power levels and without Eternatus-Eternamax, their chances of sweeping become easy enough to the point where little to no effort has to be made to win. In a summary, almost every action taken for victory reflects on the presence of Eternamax and this Pokemon ironically restrains much of the chaos this metagame could've gotten otherwise.

Outside of this Eternamax's stats allow it to run a plethora of useful moves and a couple useful abilities making its sets difficult to predict and for most other Pokemon to overcome. All of these traits also leave it to being the most usable and spammable Pokemon in the metagame.


S Rank
Zacian-Crowned
Zacian-Crowned is no short of being an absolute monster in Pure Hackmons. It has great bulk, a ridiculous speed stat, and the highest attack stat in the Pokemon Sword and Shield game. It is most commonly used with the Double Iron Bash attack, which alone shuts down a significant majority of the metagame. Zacian-Crowned's combination of Steel STAB, Attack stat, and Speed stat only leaves it in competition with Eternatus-Eternamax. Aside from having the bulk to tank Eternamax's attacks, Zacian-Crowned doesn't have much to fight off Eternamax with. As a result it heavily relies on OHKO moves in order to beat it. Zacian-Crowned also likes using Nuzzle and Glare to back up the Double Iron Bash flinch chances with full para chances, leaving opposing targets even more unlikely to move. When all three pieces are collected together one may consider Zacian-Crowned to be the biggest OHKO user, Double Iron Bash user, and paraspammer in the entire metagame. Anything else Zacian-Crowned carries is for the benefit of boosting its own speed, setting up hazards, clearing up hazards, or using other status strategies as Taunt or Trickscarf in order to shut as many foes down as possible. Both Zacian-Crowned and Eternamax work well together. Everything that beats Eternamax gets shut down by Zacian-Crowned while everything that directly beats Zacian-Crowned is unlikely able to break Eternamax's defenses without setting up prior. If Eternamax embodies the entire Gen 8 metagame, Zacian-Crowned embodies the anti-meta. As an anti-meta presence, aside from Eternamax it takes another Zacian-Crowned or a dedicated check/counter such as Reshiram in order to take it down. All of these traits expose Zacian-Crowned of being the most responsible for many of the RNG-based games one may experience and leave it to be widely-known by many top tier players as the unhealthiest Pokemon in Pure Hackmons. This Pokemon was designed to easily shut down everything under Eternamax and can often be far more overbearing to face due to the RNG-based moves it best uses and its Attack + Speed stat combination.


Of course I plan to include this in an update of the VR in the future and I might have to reword/cut off some parts of the description. Let me know what you think of these. Do you think they're accurate? Do you have something to add? The council will finalize these descriptions before it's placed into an update.
 
Ninjask is at the third highest with 23% usage. While it's not as good as how the usage stats make it look, this high of usage doesn't really surprise me and here's why:

Ninjask is able to perform a couple different roles in the metagame. While it's able to set up rocks as as lead, troll users with Truant, or ineffectively scare other teams with OHKO moves, Ninjask is best as a Comaphazer. Comatose is one of the few reliable abilities that aren't Neutralized by Neutralizing Gas (it's not neutralized by gastro acid). With base 160 Speed, the Comatose ability, and Sleep Talk, this Pokemon is able phaze other Pokemon out faster than anything else could and force Pokemon into dynamaxing. This strategy alone is influential enough to the point where almost every solid team is required to have at least one Magic Bounce user. They get tossed around otherwise and unless several of your Pokemon have Magic Coat, Magic Coat becomes an unreliable method of taking care of this. Zacian-Crowned is able to follow up on this strategy but isn't as popular due to not being the fastest Pokemon. However, the comaphazing strategy tends to need at least two users to be used at its fullest potential and Ninjask is so frail that as an individual, it needs the support of other Ninjask to be at its full potential. Because of this, most solid teams that run Ninjask run more than one Ninjask and the stack that comes from running multiple Ninjask on a team is reflected in it being top 3.

As you can see almost all the best things below Ninjask are stuff that are influenced by the presence of Eternamax, and/or against its methods of beating it out while a few things focus specifically on Zacian-Crowned. Things such as Indeedee, Mewtwo, Kyurem-White, and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings are examples of Pokemon capable of sweeping past Eternamax, Dragapult and Gourgeist are prominent leads outside Eternamax and Zac-C since able to set up rocks and block Rapid Spin (Defog isn't used as rocks are oftentimes definitely needed to beat Focus Sash, Eternamax and Zac-C), any Dark or Steel-type in the top 40 are used to block Stored Power, any good Wonder Guard either sets up to sweep by themselves, perishtraps OHKO Eternamax and Zac-C, or sets up to Baton Pass into either Mewtwo or Indeedee. Aside from Eternamax, Reshiram is the primary check to Zacian-Crowned and is often used specifically to target that Pokemon, but in consideration, is forced to run OHKO or set up + eternabeam in order to give Eternamax less of a chance to safely switch in and carry out free turns.

I'll post a few more details about the usage stats in a future post. I tried making this post quick and relatively simple. Thank you all for looking into it if you've done so. Join in and let us know what your thoughts on these usage stats if you have any. I know it's a bit late but expect the first batch of viability rankings to come up soon!

It's been a good month everyone, hope most of you actually enjoyed your time playing through the ladder. Let's all continue to develop the metagame together!
Another way to deal with comaphase ninjask is just dynamaxing...
:v4:
 
Another way to deal with comaphase ninjask is just dynamaxing...
:v4:
Yes, but...
  • Eternamax and Zacian-C, the 2 best Pokemon in the meta, can't dynamax. Therefore Ninjask can whirl multiple times until you get a pokemon that dynamaxes, if the team has one at all.
  • If you dynamax to stop Whirlwind then you can't use a dynamax to sweep (ex. Kyurem-White).
  • Ninjask can scout the dynamax, either through a double switch or by surviving a dynamax'd hit (on defensive mons)
    • Even dedicated counters like MBounce can be scouted and dealt with (though keeping track is hard if its an Eterny)
    • And if you do dynamax too early then Ninjask gets to whirl for free
  • Its still better than No Guard OHKO Ninjask
 
Yes, but...
  • Eternamax and Zacian-C, the 2 best Pokemon in the meta, can't dynamax. Therefore Ninjask can whirl multiple times until you get a pokemon that dynamaxes, if the team has one at all.
  • If you dynamax to stop Whirlwind then you can't use a dynamax to sweep (ex. Kyurem-White).
  • Ninjask can scout the dynamax, either through a double switch or by surviving a dynamax'd hit (on defensive mons)
    • Even dedicated counters like MBounce can be scouted and dealt with (though keeping track is hard if its an Eterny)
    • And if you do dynamax too early then Ninjask gets to whirl for free
  • Its still better than No Guard OHKO Ninjask
Why not just Prankster Taunt?

Covers so much without using a niche ability, and can be used on a multitude of Defensive Pokemon.
 

Ransei

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Why not just Prankster Taunt?

Covers so much without using a niche ability, and can be used on a multitude of Defensive Pokemon.
Unless it's spammed on numerous Pokemon on a team (making it a less worthwhile niche on its own because you want to spam Neutralizing Gas sets in most cases), Magic Bounce is still the only consistent strategy when it comes to dealing with Comaphaze. Magic Bounce only takes up one team slot and you're able to switch directly into Comaphaze to stop it immediately. The major concern would likely be if the opponent predicts and switches into a Shadow Tag or Arena Trap, although that hasn't been seen and the Magic Bouncers can start running Shed Shell if this becomes an issue.

Aside from comaphazing, Magic Bounce can also deal with Wonder Guards and Normalize. Wonder Guards in this gen have to rely on Gastro Acid in order to avoid getting hit by the Neutralizing Gas spam. These Magic Bouncers can get sent in, reflect Gastro Acid back, and remove their ability. Same thing goes with Normalize but with the move Entrainment being bounced instead. Most relevant abilities that aren't Neutralizing Gas can be handled by the one Magic Bouncer many successful players tend to have on their team and Magic Bounce is able to strongly fight back against all of Neutralizing Gas's biggest threats. Because of all of this, Magic Bounce is considered more great than niche in the metagame and is practically mandatory to run in a solid team.

Magic Coat and Prankster Taunt have to take up more than one slot because they're dependent on getting the right Pokemon phazed in. You either have to fill these slots on several members of your team (big problem because there's lots of 4mss and sets that rely on all four of the moves they have otherwise) or risk not having the mon brought in at all.
 
Ok I was more thinking of switching it in when the opponent sets up hazards, and Taunt working against them. Or having Court Change.

But you are right, Choice Scarf to outspeed Ninjask and Magic Bounce don’t expect you to already be in, I just figured sometimes Prankster could be an ability that doesn’t announce itself, and they may send in a Ninjask user only to find out you have Prankster next turn.

I see your point.
 
The major concern would likely be if the opponent predicts and switches into a Shadow Tag or Arena Trap, although that hasn't been seen and the Magic Bouncers can start running Shed Shell if this becomes an issue.
oh no stag does not work well against mbounce (eterny)
i do not see any way an stag user can beat mbounce unless mbounce doesnt have a pivot move, there's just too little damage in this meta
there is no way to stop a pivot out other than imprison which is rather unreliable as there's at least 3 moves you want to stop (U-Turn, Teleport, Parting Shot in that order) and you need psong and imprison. And even then it'd just be for comatalk teams, and they better not just clear the hazards you set up.
Because of all of this, Magic Bounce is considered more great than niche in the metagame and is practically mandatory to run in a solid team.
Also, MBounce happens to be Mbounce's greatest check, preventing a support etern from setting up deadly hazards (and forcing them out).
 

Ransei

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oh no stag does not work well against mbounce (eterny)
i do not see any way an stag user can beat mbounce unless mbounce doesnt have a pivot move, there's just too little damage in this meta
there is no way to stop a pivot out other than imprison which is rather unreliable as there's at least 3 moves you want to stop (U-Turn, Teleport, Parting Shot in that order) and you need psong and imprison. And even then it'd just be for comatalk teams, and they better not just clear the hazards you set up.

Also, MBounce happens to be Mbounce's greatest check, preventing a support etern from setting up deadly hazards (and forcing them out).
I tend to use Magic Bounce on mons that aren't Eternamax. Stuff like Zacian-Crowned or a Stored Power wall in general. Since you'll need a Stored Power wall and they don't really need another ability they work whereas Eternamax would rather have Neutralizing Gas the majority of the time no matter the set unless it's some full cleric. Sometimes STAG on the likes of Reshiram to take down bouncy steels or mons with OHKO moves to take down a potential Magic Bounce Eternamax are what it could be used for against bouncers.

Also pivot moves are sorta rare on most Pokémon anyway unless it's Baton Pass from something unlikely to be Magic Bounce.
 
I tend to use Magic Bounce on mons that aren't Eternamax. Stuff like Zacian-Crowned or a Stored Power wall in general. Since you'll need a Stored Power wall and they don't really need another ability they work whereas Eternamax would rather have Neutralizing Gas the majority of the time no matter the set unless it's some full cleric. Sometimes STAG on the likes of Reshiram to take down bouncy steels or mons with OHKO moves to take down a potential Magic Bounce Eternamax are what it could be used for against bouncers.

Also pivot moves are sorta rare on most Pokémon anyway unless it's Baton Pass from something unlikely to be Magic Bounce.
But you don't really need a stored power wall imo
Indee and Smash Etern both need *4 to get past foes. Indee hasn't been running taunt as much and Etern needs an imprison as well (can't spore or block whirl). And Necro-DW is stopped by scarfers like Etern or Zacian. Whirlwind etern is not out of the question.
What ability that is commonly run (other than MBounce and STag) does MBounce lose on? You have other NGassers for No Guard. Pure Power and co. are too rare to be seen. WG maybe but not only do other Ngasers exist but it also reflects some nasty moves they could us.. With a majority ngas meta its largely safe to use MBounce and not use. Theoretically you could plop the ability on any single non sweeper and have it be helpful, and why not use it on the mbounc.

Pivot is definitely viable especially on mbouncers who dont want to be trapped, instead of shed shell they could run pivot (esp when other suport moves could be beat by other mbounce)
 

Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
But you don't really need a stored power wall imo
Indee and Smash Etern both need *4 to get past foes. Indee hasn't been running taunt as much and Etern needs an imprison as well (can't spore or block whirl). And Necro-DW is stopped by scarfers like Etern or Zacian. Whirlwind etern is not out of the question.
What ability that is commonly run (other than MBounce and STag) does MBounce lose on? You have other NGassers for No Guard. Pure Power and co. are too rare to be seen. WG maybe but not only do other Ngasers exist but it also reflects some nasty moves they could us.. With a majority ngas meta its largely safe to use MBounce and not use. Theoretically you could plop the ability on any single non sweeper and have it be helpful, and why not use it on the mbounc.

Pivot is definitely viable especially on mbouncers who dont want to be trapped, instead of shed shell they could run pivot (esp when other suport moves could be beat by other mbounce)
Eternamax carrying Imprison is useful and convenient but Shell Smash Eternamax, especially when spammed can have all sorts of filler options for the forth slot. These options most definitely include Taunt and Magic Coat, which I've successfully used before in matches where Whirlwind and Taunt stopped Imprison Etern. Eternamax can make it through two Shell Smashes surprisingly easy when given the right filler move in the right situation and so the Stored Power walls, who are typically Steel or Dark-type, are incredibly useful for being the only ones best able to not get outright beaten by Smash Etern afterwards. I sincerely believe Eternamax is the best Shell Smasher in the metagame and it's amazing how easily it's able to pull off two shell smashes as opposed to let's say, Mewtwo being able to pull off one. Its bulk and lack of reliance on items helps it so much to where it's also the only Stored Power user you could spam multiple times in a team and still very easily win. This is why Stored Power walls are needed. Also just in case you let the Mewtwo or Dawn Wings Shell Smash once because they either have Taunt, Spore, Magic Coat, etc you have a better chance of being able to handle it.
 
Gonna nom two mons on here so that I can revive the thread get more awareness on the meta

1. :Cinderace: -> C
But wait, isn't this blacklisted?
I'm not suggesting the Burn Up set, instead we're gonna be using it as a scarfer!

Cinderace @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas / Regenerator (i forget if it works)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Spectral Thief
- Trick
- Horn Drill / U-Turn
  • Counters Zacian: Resists Zacian's Double Iron Bash, and OHKOs with V-Create.
    • 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Cinderace: 114-134 (31.3 - 36.8%) -- approx. 77.8% chance to 3HKO
  • Unlike Reshiram, Cinderace can outspeed 237 speed sweepers (and max EV's Necrozma-DW) and proceed to Spectral Thief them.
    • Won't outspeed max invested Kyurem-W, which is a liability in ladder
  • Not 100% useless b.c of Trick and OHKO, though anything can do that
  • Also outspeeds non-Scarf Ninjask safely, good for those who go for the OHKO instantly
  • Admittedly a VERY tiny niche but its better than 80% of fully evolved mons
  • Very obvious flaws: SR weak, weak in general, and opposing mons can set up on a locked V-Create

2. :Zamazenta-Crowned: -> C+ / B-
The real sauce. The last of the Galar legendaries not to be ranked.

Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Comatose / Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spectral Thief
- Flare Blitz
- Horn Drill
- Recover / Substitute / Magic Coat
  • Zamazenta's niche comes as (once again) a Zacian counter.
    • Due to its Rusted Shield, it can not be tricked. This punishes Final Gambit and Zacian Spam alike, giving free turns for Zamazenta's team.
    • Zamzenta avoids a 4KO from Double Iron Bash, while small, may be important in longer games.
    • Flare Blitz allows Zamazenta to 2KO Zacian while also having the PP to beat Recover. Necrozma-DM has an easier time beating Zacian.
  • Due to typing, Zamazenta doesn't get worn down by Spectrals and Knock Offs as much as Necrozma-DM (allowing it to be played more aggressively).
  • Zamazenta is also slower than Eternamax and 237 Speed sweepers. It has the bulk and typing to take unboosted sweepers.
  • Zamazenta often can't punish switches enough, requires great play/luck in predicting tricks, is generally weak, and gets hit by coverage meant to hit Zacian often.
  • Forced to run Comatose or Magic Coat because Zamazenta can't run Goggles (unless you want a lure set?)
Like no replays since these are mons I thought post ladder but I can chall using either.
 
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    • Due to its Rusted Shield, it can not be tricked. This punishes Final Gambit and Zacian Spam alike, giving free turns for Zamazenta's team.
Just FYI to those using Rusted Shield to punish Final Gambit spam, bait the trick with a Ghost type and switch this in for a free turn to Sub or use a OHKO move.

Stating this because this 'mon can't Dynamax and will nearly always go down to Eternamax Final Gambit.

Getting behind a Sub means Final Gambit spam teams have to get creative with Perish Song or predicting the Zamazenta switch in (and let's be real, they won't even think to till they see it). Worth also noting since Final Gambit spam often runs Spectral Thief, so they'll have tons of trouble breaking the sub or through Recover Zamazenta meaning more free turns to go for OHKO moves :toast:
 
hard to say the bunny is that much better then reshiram but i suppose it does a similar role and niche. and also as for zamazenta if fire types are gonna be more popular perhaps it should be lower parts of C instead. And again still they serve not near as much use due to centralization of eternamax zac and other psychic sweepers. So many mons I wish to love to use and yet I still find little use for others besides zac and eterna. I like the idea tho I just think both rabbit and the other wolf need to be low C. Adds a little extra flavor i suppose.
 
Ok this is gonna be a big post and really meta game controversial. But since i been thinking a lot and seeing how a the current moment theres not been a lot of post here and usually most games that are played like in OM room are with just ransei teams these points I have to make are accurate of the current meta game.
This current VR sucks. Its bad. The VR should be more so something like this https://docs.google.com/document/d/17I-Jt7274K2TtGlaxm9uBogDIgMDSfhIrx6bVADksuY/edit. Now let me start from top to bottom.
S rank: Best 2 mons in teir feel free to consider Eternamax Rank but the way i see it is zac is extremely extremely close to eterna. But some people feel eterna is way further and above. I don't agree because of Zac's better typing better speed and ability to use double iron bash effectively. Taunt I find so massive that this is also why the better speed teir on Zac is making him very close. Either way there the best 2 mons in the game.
A rank: Sweepers. these mons sometimes are able to effectively get off a smash or set up and then they can sweep. Sometimes its a bit easier then Eternamax to do so. Personally I think Mewtwo is best or even better sweeper then eternamax due to its more powerful attacks and dynamax that then allows it to get off psychic terrain for even more power. The rest of the sweepers however can hold much merit due to there ability to actually underspeed mons like Zacian or Eternamax and this is good due to the fact spectral thief is used so much. So they use spectral thief first and then you set up after and then your fast allowing you to sweep. Generally however I would rather try and build other ways to try and just get around sweepers like taunt. Eternamax also is generally bulky enough to almost always live 1 hit from any sweeper still tho These are by far the next best mons as Zacian and eterna invalidate most other things.
B rank: These are actually niche mons. If the point has not been clear by now this meta game is extremely centralized around eternamax and Zacian hence sweepers being so good in there ability to try and break down eterna. However for B teir these are the mons that try and stop sweepers. Or they try and stop Zacian. Generally tho however sweepers of any kind weather it be Eternamax or one of the A teir mons there going to run coverage and generally fire because steels resist stored power and psychic hits as well as also ice hits they can take as most sweepers are psychic. Reshiram also is A- because so many people like to use steels that reshiram can even more easily deal with them. Generally over time I have actually come to the point where i just dislike most of B teir. I don't find steels that effective as they are all ohko or 2hko at min after a boosted sweeper. Or also Zacian just can rip apart the mons here. Double iron bash has a insanely high flinch rate and he can also run quake/coverage to just rip apart your walls that wanna stop sweepers even harder. Dark mons also can maybe stop stored power but are hit hard by boosted coverage moves and again Double iron bash Zacian. So the mons here can hold merit and do some useful stuff but there held back and can end up being niche vs people that run mutiple Zacian and Eternamax as most teams should or can be.
C Rank: Oh my gosh. Zacian just invalidates almost everything here. Or sweepers or well a lot of stuff really. C rank is just bad. So bad. I mean i said B teir was held back by some stuff and can end up being niche well oh my gosh can the mons here suck. Ninjask is to fragile. 4x weak to rocks and just is murdered by scarfs mainly Zacian. sure it trys to set something up or down but Zacian does this 1000 times better due to its bulk and actual attack stats. Double iron bash ohkos almost always vs jask. But before i go on forever about jask because i can because oh my gosh i hate the mon with passion but everyone uses the bad thing lets stop here. as for the other C rank mons Like dragapult or gourgiest oh sure there rapid spin blockers. Dragapult also can try and entrainment me because its fast. Thats a niche I suppose but Its another mons that can be just stopped by scarfs or taunt again mainly Zacian or you just outpace cuz your Zacian. Same thing with gourgiest. Its stopped by Zacian. If you wanna run like a wonder guard its also here but stuff in C and C- just kinda get rekt by Neutralizing Gas. If your strugging with C teir Its because your not running whats the centeralization of the tier. Zacian and Eternamax just stomp everything here. Theres 0 reason for anything that i have here in C teir to be B teir because its just stomped by the sad centeral fact Zac and Etern run the teir. They rule it with a iron fist.
D Rank: After going through C teir this should be pretty self explanitory. Everything here holds little niche. Little value.
 
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Ransei

is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Other Metas Leader
The previous VR has been vastly outdated for a while after its release and the council have taken the time to reform their thoughts and opinions, as well as introduce new Pokemon into the rankings.

Arctic, Tmi, and I have revamped the Generation 8 VR, including changes we saw would be more accurate for the metagame.

Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax
Explanation:
To put it bluntly, Eternamax is Gen 8 Pure Hackmons as a Pokemon. With an immense BST of 1125 including defenses higher than Ultra Necrozma's entire statspread combined, it has been left with no other choice but to embody the entire metagame. Everything in Pure Hackmons revolves around finding ways to defeat this beast whether it's through the use of OHKO moves, Shell Smash + Super Effective Psychic-type/Dragon-type/Ice-type STAB attacks, Perish Song, Comaphazing, or Final Gambit. These methods are often made into full-on strategies used in complete teams to win because this Pokemon's presence single-handedly makes them the best wincons. On top of this, teams without Eternatus-Eternamax are mostly put into a disadvantage due to it being the most capable of consistently dealing with the entire rest of the metagame. Other Pokemon in this format have extremely high power levels and without Eternatus-Eternamax, their chances of breaking the metagame become easy enough to the point where players could easily win with little to no effort. In summary, almost every action taken for victory reflects on the presence of Eternamax and ironically, this Pokemon restrains much of the chaos Pure Hackmons could've gotten otherwise.

Outside of this Eternamax's stats allow it to run a plethora of useful moves and a couple useful abilities making its sets difficult to predict and for most other Pokemon to overcome. All of these traits also leave it to being the best and most spammable Pokemon in the metagame.

S Rank
Zacian-Crowned
Explanation:
Zacian-Crowned is no short of being an absolute monster in Pure Hackmons. It carries a ridiculous speed stat, backed up by a decent bulk, type, and the highest attack in the game. Zacian commonly uses Double Iron Bash, which has a high BP and a 51% flinch chance. It can even attempt paraflinch with either Nuzzle or Glare. One of the few Pokemon not to be threatened by Double Iron Bash is Eternamax. Zacian is forced to use OHKO moves to actually K.O. But thanks to its bulk and speed, Zacian can use moves like Substitute and Taunt to deny almost any action Eternamax can do back. It can also do a variety of other support and status strategies, such as TrickScarf, hazard management, or speed control (Rapid Spin and Para). Zacian's bulk and speed makes it one of the best checks to Eternamax - if Eternamax is the meta, Zacian is the anti meta. Zacian and Eternamax also synergize well together: Zacian shuts down many things who would otherwise beat Eternamax, while Eternamax is bulky enough to survive unboosted threats against Zacian. Aside from a few Eternamax sets, only a dedicated check like Gyarados, Reshiram, or Ferrothorn can handle Zacian-C and its OHKO. When put together, Zacian-Crowned is meta-defining due to being the most responsible for many of the RNG-based games one may experience and all of its traits leave it to be widely-known by many top tier players as the unhealthiest Pokemon in the metagame.

A Rank
Indeedee (Echo ➥
Indeedee-F)
Kyurem-White
Mewtwo
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

B Rank
B1
Mandibuzz
Reshiram
Umbreon

B2
Aegislash
Corviknight
Ferrothorn
Gyarados

B3
Grimmsnarl
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Obstagoon

B4
Gourgeist-Super (Echo ➥
Gourgeist-Large)
Zamazenta-Crowned

C Rank
C1
Dragapult
Ninjask
Melmetal
Seismitoad
Zeraora

C2
Dusclops
Tyranitar

C3
Cinderace
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
Drapion
Snorlax
Zacian
Zamazenta

C4
Mimikyu

BLACKLIST: DO NOT BRING UP POKEMON FOR THEIR BURN UP SETS.



MAJOR CHANGES:
1) All the Pokemon who were previously A+ now hold their own full rank in A. The idea of Pokemon being put into different subranks under the same full rank is to be able to identify a Pokemon having relatively higher or lower viability than another, but by a small margin. We believe the Pokemon who were initially A+ have gone above and beyond any Pokemon below them by a wide margin, as mentioned in previous posts, however they are not to be moved up because Zacian-Crowned holds the rank and is beyond everything below it by an even wider margin.

2) Rankings below A are separated into tiers of four represented by a number.

3) "Echos" were added. Echoes are Pokemon whose main roles, movesets, and strategies are exactly the same as the base Pokemon and tend to be either as effective, unnoticeably less effective, or slightly less effective but are not outright outclassed. These are usually different formes of the same Pokemon or in part of the same evolutionary line. I felt about adding Echos in because while Pokemon like Indeedee-F and Gourgeist-L have been seen as "worse" than their other forme(s) the difference in how they affect winning chances are too slim and these Pokemon can be or are nearly as frequent of a presence.

In older gens it's similar to how Chansey and Blissey functioned. Chansey was often perceived as slightly better but Blissey was still a very strong presence in the same metagame while having the same roles, movesets, and strategies to be used under. This was due to the trade of advantages and disadvantages for it being worthy in the eyes of other players, despite their effectiveness not being so drastically different to warrant a separate rank. Echos are strictly determined and must be Pokemon who only exist to serve all of the same purposes another Pokemon and without being completely better off running a different set.

4) The blacklist has changed. Individual Pokemon were removed in exchange for a blacklist on discussing any Pokemon for their burn up sets.

Because the structure of this VR has changed entirely, going over most of the rises and drops would be a confusing process for everyone. Therefore for this I will only be including rejected nominations and Pokemon who were added:

Rejected Nominations:
Eternamax -> S


Although this was a council decision and is agreed upon by plenty of players outside the council, there will be a future post from me personally explaining what I believe sets Eternamax well apart from Zacian-Crowned to remain having it's own ranking above it.

Added Pokemon:
UR -> B2
UR -> B4
UR -> C3
UR -> C4
(This is essentially Mimikyu rank)

No Pokemon were removed although some were close to. Pokemon in the A rank will be given their own description in the future. If you want to discuss or ask more questions about the viability rankings go ahead!
 

AV Cosmoem

Formerly supreeee
The previous VR has been vastly outdated for a while after its release and the council have taken the time to reform their thoughts and opinions, as well as introduce new Pokemon into the rankings.

Arctic, Tmi, and I have revamped the Generation 8 VR, including changes we saw would be more accurate for the metagame.

Eternamax Rank
Eternatus-Eternamax
Explanation:
To put it bluntly, Eternamax is Gen 8 Pure Hackmons as a Pokemon. With an immense BST of 1125 including defenses higher than Ultra Necrozma's entire statspread combined, it has been left with no other choice but to embody the entire metagame. Everything in Pure Hackmons revolves around finding ways to defeat this beast whether it's through the use of OHKO moves, Shell Smash + Super Effective Psychic-type/Dragon-type/Ice-type STAB attacks, Perish Song, Comaphazing, or Final Gambit. These methods are often made into full-on strategies used in complete teams to win because this Pokemon's presence single-handedly makes them the best wincons. On top of this, teams without Eternatus-Eternamax are mostly put into a disadvantage due to it being the most capable of consistently dealing with the entire rest of the metagame. Other Pokemon in this format have extremely high power levels and without Eternatus-Eternamax, their chances of breaking the metagame become easy enough to the point where players could easily win with little to no effort. In summary, almost every action taken for victory reflects on the presence of Eternamax and ironically, this Pokemon restrains much of the chaos Pure Hackmons could've gotten otherwise.

Outside of this Eternamax's stats allow it to run a plethora of useful moves and a couple useful abilities making its sets difficult to predict and for most other Pokemon to overcome. All of these traits also leave it to being the best and most spammable Pokemon in the metagame.

S Rank
Zacian-Crowned
Explanation:
Zacian-Crowned is no short of being an absolute monster in Pure Hackmons. It carries a ridiculous speed stat, backed up by a decent bulk, type, and the highest attack in the game. Zacian commonly uses Double Iron Bash, which has a high BP and a 51% flinch chance. It can even attempt paraflinch with either Nuzzle or Glare. One of the few Pokemon not to be threatened by Double Iron Bash is Eternamax. Zacian is forced to use OHKO moves to actually K.O. But thanks to its bulk and speed, Zacian can use moves like Substitute and Taunt to deny almost any action Eternamax can do back. It can also do a variety of other support and status strategies, such as TrickScarf, hazard management, or speed control (Rapid Spin and Para). Zacian's bulk and speed makes it one of the best checks to Eternamax - if Eternamax is the meta, Zacian is the anti meta. Zacian and Eternamax also synergize well together: Zacian shuts down many things who would otherwise beat Eternamax, while Eternamax is bulky enough to survive unboosted threats against Zacian. Aside from a few Eternamax sets, only a dedicated check like Gyarados, Reshiram, or Ferrothorn can handle Zacian-C and its OHKO. When put together, Zacian-Crowned is meta-defining due to being the most responsible for many of the RNG-based games one may experience and all of its traits leave it to be widely-known by many top tier players as the unhealthiest Pokemon in the metagame.

A Rank
Indeedee (Echo ➥
Indeedee-F)
Kyurem-White
Mewtwo
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

B Rank
B1
Mandibuzz
Reshiram
Umbreon

B2
Aegislash
Corviknight
Ferrothorn
Gyarados

B3
Grimmsnarl
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Obstagoon

B4
Gourgeist-Super (Echo ➥
Gourgeist-Large)
Zamazenta-Crowned

C Rank
C1
Dragapult
Ninjask
Melmetal
Seismitoad
Zeraora

C2
Dusclops
Tyranitar

C3
Cinderace
Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
Drapion
Snorlax
Zacian
Zamazenta

C4
Mimikyu

BLACKLIST: DO NOT BRING UP POKEMON FOR THEIR BURN UP SETS.



MAJOR CHANGES:
1) All the Pokemon who were previously A+ now hold their own full rank in A. The idea of Pokemon being put into different subranks under the same full rank is to be able to identify a Pokemon having relatively higher or lower viability than another, but by a small margin. We believe the Pokemon who were initially A+ have gone above and beyond any Pokemon below them by a wide margin, as mentioned in previous posts, however they are not to be moved up because Zacian-Crowned holds the rank and is beyond everything below it by an even wider margin.

2) Rankings below A are separated into tiers of four represented by a number.

3) "Echos" were added. Echoes are Pokemon whose main roles, movesets, and strategies are exactly the same as the base Pokemon and tend to be either as effective, unnoticeably less effective, or slightly less effective but are not outright outclassed. These are usually different formes of the same Pokemon or in part of the same evolutionary line. I felt about adding Echos in because while Pokemon like Indeedee-F and Gourgeist-L have been seen as "worse" than their other forme(s) the difference in how they affect winning chances are too slim and these Pokemon can be or are nearly as frequent of a presence.

In older gens it's similar to how Chansey and Blissey functioned. Chansey was often perceived as slightly better but Blissey was still a very strong presence in the same metagame while having the same roles, movesets, and strategies to be used under. This was due to the trade of advantages and disadvantages for it being worthy in the eyes of other players, despite their effectiveness not being so drastically different to warrant a separate rank. Echos are strictly determined and must be Pokemon who only exist to serve all of the same purposes another Pokemon and without being completely better off running a different set.

4) The blacklist has changed. Individual Pokemon were removed in exchange for a blacklist on discussing any Pokemon for their burn up sets.

Because the structure of this VR has changed entirely, going over most of the rises and drops would be a confusing process for everyone. Therefore for this I will only be including rejected nominations and Pokemon who were added:

Rejected Nominations:
Eternamax -> S


Although this was a council decision and is agreed upon by plenty of players outside the council, there will be a future post from me personally explaining what I believe sets Eternamax well apart from Zacian-Crowned to remain having it's own ranking above it.

Added Pokemon:
UR -> B2
UR -> B4
UR -> C3
UR -> C4
(This is essentially Mimikyu rank)

No Pokemon were removed although some were close to. Pokemon in the A rank will be given their own description in the future. If you want to discuss or ask more questions about the viability rankings go ahead!
add rotom-fan to C4 rank

:ss/rotom-fan:
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers / Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Recover
- Flamethrower / Defog
- Trick / Defog / Whirlwind

Rotom-Fan is the only, as far as I'm aware, hard counter to Zacian-Crowned. 4HKO'd by Double Iron Bash, immune to Fissure, immune to Nuzzle, Flamethrower disregards Taunt and Substitute, Trick counters Trick, as far as I'm aware the only thing Zacian can do is land Horn Drill. After Tmi makes his post on why rotom fan is "actually" bad can you rank it
 
add rotom-fan to C4 rank

:ss/rotom-fan:
Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers / Choice Scarf
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Recover
- Flamethrower / Defog
- Trick / Defog / Whirlwind

Rotom-Fan is the only, as far as I'm aware, hard counter to Zacian-Crowned. 4HKO'd by Double Iron Bash, immune to Fissure, immune to Nuzzle, Flamethrower disregards Taunt and Substitute, Trick counters Trick, as far as I'm aware the only thing Zacian can do is land Horn Drill. After Tmi makes his post on why rotom fan is "actually" bad can you rank it
rotom fan is actually bad
the only advantage is that you are para immune without needing coma, but the meta is not taking advantage of coma rn
ferrothorn is overall better for avoiding having to use coma because spore immunity, after tricking you reveal you arent sleep immune and have to play way more carefully
you are rocks weak, unlike corvi, and overall aren't as bulky as corvi for etern spectrals

also this set is complete garbage
volt switch does not hit anything other than gyara so you rather'd have teleport/parting shot or a more useful move
lava plume is better for crippling something with burn and zac hates burn, or blue flare gets the 2ko on zac
no helmet means that you can only switch in once in rocks because rocks + dib does 50%. hell even rocks + dib -> dib flinch -> dib kills, this is a problem for gyara too but gyara is ummmmmmmmmmmm

ngl would be fine with the fan and gyara as echoes they do the same thing
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8purehackmons-1122932343-wjuqsgwzswjkubfg1rspvqc5dgchcbipw

Anyways, I would like to tell everyone to make sure to play careful around STAG cheese. Look at this battle, imagine if that eternatus had clangorous soul protect ingrain baton pass and then gave those boosts to a pokemon with multi hit moves or SRs are up. Imagine if it was a whole BP chain of eterns. For your safety dont be like me, and always think well what here could end up getting me screwed by STAG. This is also an endless battle. Very Fun Game!!!
 

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