qassem soleimani assassinated

EV

Ayo, sis
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For all this chest-beating stateside from the GOP about securing Israel they sure do pursue actions that continually put the country under direct threat from its adversaries by stirring up Iranian hornet's nests. Hm, I wonder if that's just a shield to engage in local conflicts so the auspicious belligerents among Trump's cabinet can read the bones and declare it's finally time to go to war (again). It's not like the contractors and oil barons have been sated by any of our other false-flag operations in the last four decades or anything, hm.

"There are some indications out there that they may be planning additional attacks," [defense secretary] Esper said. "If we get word of attacks, we will take pre-emptive action as well to protect American forces, protect American lives. The game has changed."

Bullshit it's changed. It's literally the same game we've been playing since the first Gulf War, at least.

People were worried Hillary would have taken us to war, but I'd like to think she'd have better sense than this. Trump's problem is he has no firsthand knowledge of state diplomacy, so he must rely on the advice of sycophants he handpicks on the condition they only tell him what he wants to hear. It's a shame Bolton was cut loose so soon. I hear Pompeo's neck was being primed for the chopping block next. Maybe his aloof attitude about war will be his saving grace.
 

EV

Ayo, sis
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Well, it's not Americans who will suffer because of this.
Right, because there are no Americans in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, or the rest of the greater Middle East, actively serving or otherwise.

I know the spirit of your post is related to the communities that will be affected in and around Iran, but it's retarded political stunts like this that put Americans abroad at risk unnecessarily (as if they didn't already have enough targets on their backs).
 

Myzozoa

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"“Few may remember that after the Sept. 11 attacks, General Suleimani worked indirectly with the United States to oust the Taliban in Afghanistan and that Iran was the lone Muslim-majority nation to express popular sympathy for the United States. Despite this and Iranian diplomatic assistance in creating a post-Taliban government, President George W. Bush declared Iran part of an ‘axis of evil.’”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/opinion/qassim-suleimani-death.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article&fbclid=IwAR0oLBhIBbGJvvRrXYtf2Qm21_1EwupBO9UyVVR_9VKobolmKmTcBrAqhcA

https://theweek.com/articles/887283/america-guilty-everything-accuse-iran-doing

"Yet even the worst of Soleimani's record pales in comparison with the most blood-drenched American warmongers. If Soleimani deserves condemnation for arming Iraqi insurgents, then George W. Bush and Dick Cheney deserve 10 times as much for starting the war in the first place. It was a pointless, illegal war of aggression sold on lies that obliterated Iraqi society and killed perhaps half a million people, almost all of them innocent civilians. (Our own Soleimani, General David Petraeus, was connected to the operation of Iraqi torture dungeons and paramilitary death squads during the fight against the insurgency.)"

"As writer Derek Davison explains, Soleimani was no ordinary general. He was more like a cross between the American vice president and the secretary of state — one of the two or three most famous and powerful people in Iran behind Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. Soleimani commanded the Quds Force, a Special Forces-type operation supporting Iranian allies in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, and many other countries. American hardliners hate him mainly for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas, and for arming insurgents who fought the American occupation of Iraq. Incidentally, as recently as September 2015, Trump plainly had no idea whatsoever who Soleimani was. Indeed, as Mehdi Hasan writes at The Intercept, when Hugh Hewitt asked him about the Quds Force, he thought Hewitt had said "Kurds."

"Chauvinist American commentators always presume America has the best intentions, and that the American military is composed of saintly warrior-poets. The reality is that the lumbering American colossus has unleashed a Thirty Years' War-level of violent chaos all around Iran for no good reason at all. We are ruled by a president who recently reversed the demotion of a guy turned in by his own fellow soldiers for war crimes — namely, gleefully murdering helpless prisoners, old men, and little girls for sport."

it seems to me that Iran is astoundingly similar to America in terms of government structure (mixed constitutional republic), but since Iranians are not white Christians and they don't want to give their oil to western corporations, the regime is labelled a 'terrorist regime' and othered into an enemy. This labelling then forms a pretext for American empire building activities in the region for decades to come. George W Bush was viewed as a huckster and a joke by smug and assured liberals that let him get away with everything and bought his bullshit on war after war, but his administration implemented the most effective long-term conservative geopolitical strategy ever, and the Trump administration's activities are the logical extension of the historical cycle that began under Bush Jr.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
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Went to the Jimmy Dore Show over Christmas break in Hawaii. (Was AMAZING)
Just want to remind everyone that all wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit. All wars are bullshit.

But this does give me 2 hours to listen to my favorite Youtube Communist.
 

Deck Knight

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Probably shouldn't have attacked our embassy, then strolled around Iraq like he owned the place.

At the time he was meeting al-Muhandis, who had been coordinating attacks against US personnel and an Iranian sympathizer and traitor to to the Iraqi government from within.

He was a foreign enemy combatant directly involved in attacking our embassy. Which I will remind you is a diplomatic, not a military installation. He's dead now. Good riddance.

The Iran Hostage Crisis occurred under Jimmy Carter, over 30 years ago. Iran is not some innocent dove beset by imperialist American interests.

It is fascinating that a site that loves its social liberalism is working overtime to "contextualize" a theocratic militant terrorist, but hey, death to America am I right?
 

EV

Ayo, sis
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We probably shouldn't have attacked Iraq, then strolled around it like we owned the place.

The Iran Hostage Crisis occurred under Jimmy Carter, over 30 years ago. Iran is not some innocent dove beset by imperialist American interests.
You do realize the hostage crisis occurred as a direct response to the U.S. admitting the former Shah, Mohammad Reza, into the country for medical treatment following the aftermath of the Iran Revolution, right?

The same revolution that occurred as a direct response to the U.S. supporting the Shah, a monarch and dictator, who was expanding our interests and westernizing the Islamic state on our behalf. Sounds sort of like, oh I don't know, a rebuke of "imperialist American interests" to me.

It is fascinating that a site that loves its social liberalism is working overtime to "contextualize" a theocratic militant terrorist, but hey, death to America am I right?
This is the weakest possible argument you could have made against the critics of the assassination. Denouncing the escalation of violence and trumped up demonization of a relatively unknown "theocratic militant terrorist" (when's the last time Trump tweeted about him being a clear and present danger to American sovereignty before the drone strike?) does not mean we "support the enemy" or hate America.

Try harder, poser.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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Remember when Iran was a secular democracy but then we overthrew their government because they wanted to nationalize their oil. Iran isn’t an innocent dove beset by imperialistic American interests now, but it literally was 50 years ago. And there is about as much evidence of Iran’s involvement in an Iraqi protests attack of the US embassy in Iraq, as there was of WMD’s in Iraq in the first place. No one on the left feels bad that Suleimani is dead, but we also realize that things like this do nothing to decrease terrorism (it likely increases terrorism, like when we overthrew their secular government in the first place). We also don’t want to see a bunch of working class young Americans sent overseas to fight pointless wars so that defense contractor’s stock can rise and Russia can sell more weapons to Iran, go oligarchy! Conservative “patriots” (read:nationalists) are the dumbest fucking sheep.

Also if we were really concerned with terrorists attacking US citizens the current administration wouldn’t be doing as much as they could to support Saudi Arabia (you know the country that actually was involved with 9/11). But what do I know.
 
Why is there so much animosity between you guys? Its not just this thread. Its literally every political thread on Cong devolves into an ad hominem - filled reddit thread. Its not like its entertaining, or funny, its unfunny scattershot garbage. Literally the first response is "death to America, forever and always". Like what is the point to that comment? Are you trying to be funny and lighten the mood? Do you actually wish death to a country? Its not clear. Its not smart, clever or sharp, it just serves to derail the legitimacy of any following conversation.

this and like this poster, without irony
So you ARE trying to be funny. No normal person wants a country to 'die', and by the definition of 'without irony' you are implying that you literally want death to America. DAE america death to america sux so funny and original xD

Try harder, poser.
Really quick to resort to calling someone who disagrees with you a name.

Just to set the record I agree that Trump is a fucking idiot. But do all of you guys hate each other? Is that why you're incredibly quick to resort to spewing personal venom at your opponents rather than simply tearing their argument apart normally (which should be easy, Myzozoa was doing that before he/she diluted the integrity of her argument by wishing death to an entire group of people)? This shit is more toxic than voat.
 

EV

Ayo, sis
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Oh my gosh, how could I be so reckless? The p-word has no place in civilized discourse.

To all the people who've been affected by my carelessness, I offer my deepest sincerest apology. I'll be taking time off to reflect on my use of such offensive language and donating to the biggest poser of them all, the Trump Foundation, the organization which supports charities--. OH NO!
 

Myzozoa

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why dont u try responding to a post with actual content instead of concern trolling, obv none of the users itt "hate each other" (btw thats an ad hominem too, accusing others of hate, so do better abt not calling ppl names). it's clear that the sentiment of the post is a condemnation of american empire, so can we get back to having a discourse instead of these willful misinterpretations of others' posts designed to derail the discussion?
 
why dont u try responding to a post with actual content instead of concern trolling, obv none of the users itt "hate each other" (btw thats an ad hominem too, accusing others of hate, so do better abt not calling ppl names). it's clear that the sentiment of the post is a condemnation of american empire, so can we get back to having a discourse instead of these willful misinterpretations of others' posts designed to derail the discussion?
I find it interesting how you suddenly care about the quality of the thread when your first comment was "death to america but seriously".
 
Just to set the record I agree that Trump is a fucking idiot. But do all of you guys hate each other? Is that why you're incredibly quick to resort to spewing personal venom at your opponents rather than simply tearing their argument apart normally (which should be easy, Myzozoa was doing that before he/she diluted the integrity of her argument by wishing death to an entire group of people)? This shit is more toxic than voat.
I doubt that anyone itt "hates" each other but it's not particularly reasonable to engage in civil discourse with someone whose argument hinges on the concept that political assassinations leading to war motivated by an impeached leader seeking to manipulate his upcoming election.

It's a basic moral standing that "killing people is bad", "killing people for political gain is bad", and "starting wars that kill people for political gain is bad", and the rational response to someone arguing the contrary is to condemn that stance in the strongest terms possible.
 
I doubt that anyone itt "hates" each other but it's not particularly reasonable to engage in civil discourse with someone whose argument hinges on the concept that political assassinations leading to war motivated by an impeached leader seeking to manipulate his upcoming election.

It's a basic moral standing that "killing people is bad", "killing people for political gain is bad", and "starting wars that kill people for political gain is bad", and the rational response to someone arguing the contrary is to condemn that stance in the strongest terms possible.
Yes, I agree. But I just feel like if we resort to personal attacks we are sinking to their level. Its not like they have a strong argument, it should be easy to, for a lack of a better word, be the bigger man.
 
Yes, I agree. But I just feel like if we resort to personal attacks we are sinking to their level. Its not like they have a strong argument, it should be easy to, for a lack of a better word, be the bigger man.
We all can agree with this on paper but civility is not going to get us anywhere. Look at the current state of Congress as a perfect example. How many times are we supposed to peacefully disagree with people celebrating war crimes and harming the very people they're sworn to protect? How many times are we supposed to put up with the hypocrisy on display from some of the most powerful leaders in this country? We do not hate one another as people. We simply strongly disagree with each other's beliefs. There comes a point where you're fed up with giving others the benefit of the doubt and responding peacefully with facts while they retort with "hurr triggered sjw orange man bad lol!".
 
Some thoughts:
  • Iran's sponsoring of extremist groups is detrimental to Americans, other Middle East nations, and the world as a whole
  • Iran's civilians, as a whole, aren't a problem
  • Religious extremism is a problem
  • Theocracies are a problem
  • Authoritarian states are a problem
  • USA should retaliate with economic sanctions but defend itself
  • Iran should not have nuclear weapons, and no nation should be allowed to pursue development of them
  • The sooner that Middle Eastern authoritarian theocracies are replaced with liberal, secular democracies / republics, the better
  • USA should avoid involving itself in foreign politics and focus on domestic issues (America first)
  • USA should only get involved as a peacekeeping agent of the UN
  • Conflicting interests should be resolved at a table, not at gunpoint
  • The Republican establishment is trash
  • The Democratic establishment is trash
  • Trump, despite being an arrogant jackass, is handling things decently thus far
  • Majority of Americans (and their politicians) are against armed conflict
  • It is unnecessary for Trump to notify Congress before authorizing strikes, likewise with Obama, Bush, and other leaders
  • War will decrease Trump's popularity among his voters but they will still vote for him
  • Actual war is unlikely
  • Economic sanctions and terrorism (from both sides) are very likely
  • Other nations almost certainly won't get involved
  • As long as USA has a strong presence in the region and Islamic extremists continue to threaten peace, the conflicts will not end
  • American citizens are in little to no danger
  • Iranian citizens are in moderate to high danger
  • Middle East should be left entirely alone to fall apart without affecting the rest of the world, change my mind
  • I disagree with everyone in this thread on at least some point but I will not call names
  • I am disappointed with Iran's government
  • I am concerned for Iran's civilians
  • I do not want violence from either side
 
At the time he was meeting al-Muhandis, who had been coordinating attacks against US personnel and an Iranian sympathizer and traitor to to the Iraqi government from within.
At the time he was in Iraq on request from the prime minister to mediate. The US was the one that asked Iraq to to mediate with Iran. The US then bombed the man acting in capacity of a diplomatic envoy. Stop trying to justify shitty war crimes.
 

Deck Knight

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At the time he was in Iraq on request from the prime minister to mediate. The US was the one that asked Iraq to to mediate with Iran. The US then bombed the man acting in capacity of a diplomatic envoy. Stop trying to justify shitty war crimes.
Suleimani's idea of diplomatic engagement was to attack an American embassy using terrorist proxy forces. To attack an embassy is to attack the very notion of diplomacy itself. Iran isn't Iraq. Both are Shiite majority, but they are different countries. Suleimani would be safe, alive, and well if he had just stayed in Iran.

An embassy attack is ALSO a war crime. A much bigger one than liquidating an enemy combatant directing an attack on a diplomatic installation.

Trump isn't Bush, he doesn't support regime change wars to "spread democracy." After Iran downed a drone, Trump called off a strike. He was the anti-war candidate in 2016. Iraq's parliament just made a non-binding vote to remove our troops. I hope Trump takes them up on their signal, we have an opportunity to leave Iraq voluntarily with no adverse effects. I don't want a hot war in Iran, and there's is zero potential for a ground war anyway. If Iran decides to persist in attacking US or allied assets, our military can just annihilate their force projection and sink their navy again so they can't harass oil tankers anymore.
Thanks to Trump we are basically energy independent and don't need Middle East oil. Neocons still exist but don't have the president's ear. Trump's foreign policy is basically Wobbuffett with MOABs and Aircraft Carriers. "Attack our people? You're dead. No exceptions. Iranian General? Still dead. Stay in your lane."

Trump isn't Obama either. He's not going to turn Khameini into the next Ghaddafi.
 

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