[QC READY 2/3] Klefki

[Pros]
<ul>
<li>Amazing typing</li>
<li>Immune to poison and dragon</li>
<li>Prankster</li>
<li>Good movepool to abuse prankster with</li>
<li>Resists Stealth rock</li>
</ul>

[Cons]
<ul>
<li>No taunt</li>
<li>Low HP</li>
<li>Attacking stats not great</li>
<li>Defog buff means Prankster spikes not that great</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Klefki @ Leftovers/Focus sash<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def -Spa)/Bold Nature (+Def -Atk)<br />
- Spikes<br />
- Foul play<br />
- Thunder wave/Toxic<br />
- Play rough/Dazzling gleam</p>

<p>Prankster spikes can almost guarantee to get down two layers of spikes, making Klefki a good choice for a lead/spiker on offensive teams, you have to keep in mind that due to the buff in defog this has lost some merit so Klefki may have to switch in a few times. Access to Foul play allow Klefki to deal with certain threats such as Espeon and Xatu who can bounce back the Spikes/status moves and certain other mons such as Aegislash and Salamence. The next two moves are dependent on what your team needs, if the team needs a form of speed control Thunder wave can be useful while Toxic can help with walls. Dazzling gleam can be used to give Klefki a bit more offensive pressure and to hit things that foul play won't bother such as Fighting types.</p>

<p>This set can also work as a Suicide lead with 4 hp / 252 (S)Atk / 252 Spd EVs and a Jolly/Timid nature depending on which attack is used.</p>

<p>Swagger is a risky move but with works well with Foul play and can be used in the fourth moveslot. Klefkis lack of instant recovery means its going to have to rely on the weak draining kiss to heal or need wish support from a teammate to allow it to switch in. Imprison can be used to stop opposing spikers such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn from setting up while Klefkis defences can take hits from their attacks.</p>



<p>Klefki @ Light clay<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SDef<br />
Careful Nature (+Spd -Spa)<br />
- Reflect<br />
- Light screen<br />
- Spikes<br />
- Foul Play/Play rough/Dazzling gleam<br />

<p>Dual screens is a helpful asset to any team with setup sweepers. Reflect halves the physical damage done to a pokemon while Light screen Halves the special damage done, these defensive buffs allow pokemon to come in and set up while taking less damage as normal. Klefki can set up screens with ease due to its movepool allowing it to cripple opposing mons and its great typing making it immune to two types while resisting many. Due to a lack of taunt the last move is there to stop Klefki from being useless when taunted.</p>

<p>Due to lack of instant recovery Draining kiss may be uses in the forth moveslot to heal but its weak uninvested. This means that to able Klefki to get screens up again its going to need wish support from another teammate.</p>



<p>Klefki @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SDef<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Toxic<br />
- Torment<br />
- Foul Play<br />

<p> Prankster Substitute can help Klefki with toxic stalling as it lets it set one up on any non priority move while torment can be a pain for Choice users or mono attacking sets. Foul play is there to stop it from being Taunt bait and being able to take care of Espeon and Xatu. Protect could be used over Torment to allow Klefki to stall out threats more. Without any instant healing Klefki will need wish support from its teammates to allow it to come in multiple times as draining kiss is weak uninvested.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Anything with taunt can shut down Klefki as it doesn't have Magic coat or taunt of its own to stop them and its attacks are weak.</p>
<p>Due to low HP and lack of reliable recovery beyond leftovers, residual damage will soon stack up on Klefki</p>
<p>Any strong Fire/Ground attack can dent Klefki</p>
 
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alexwolf

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No suicide lead set with Spikes, it's not worth it with Defog around. I think that both sets you have have the right moveset, but i don't like your EV spreads. Imo, Klefki needs max HP / max Def+ to check Aegislash better, and in general take advantage of the fact that Foul Play works better against Pokemon with high physical Attack. Also, put Leftovers as the only item on the first set.
 
Okay, I've changed some things around and added in a weather set.
I'll probably add more to the descriptions a bit later.
 
No suicide lead set with Spikes, it's not worth it with Defog around. I think that both sets you have have the right moveset, but i don't like your EV spreads. Imo, Klefki needs max HP / max Def+ to check Aegislash better, and in general take advantage of the fact that Foul Play works better against Pokemon with high physical Attack. Also, put Leftovers as the only item on the first set.
I wholeheartedly disagree with removing a suicide lead set just because of the new Defog mechanics. If anything, Mold Breaker Excadrill is a much more valid point against a suicide lead than Defog. Even if Defog does end up being huge, it does not hurt to have a suicide lead set on the analysis, because it'd be a fantastic set by BW standards (...and BW standards is pretty much all we have to go by atm.) The suicide lead set can always be removed later, but right now, it still seems like the best set to me, even with the Defog change.

In addition, Defog has pretty shitty distribution atm. Basically the only relevant Pokemon with Defog is Scizor and Crobat. Sure, Defog mechanics are annoying for suicide lead Klefki... but does that automatically mean a set that would have a lot of potential last gen be totally unviable now? Lets be realistic here. It's very easy to make the mistake of overvaluing a new change, and it happens often in every single generation.
 

alexwolf

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I wholeheartedly disagree with removing a suicide lead set just because of the new Defog mechanics. If anything, Mold Breaker Excadrill is a much more valid point against a suicide lead than Defog. Even if Defog does end up being huge, it does not hurt to have a suicide lead set on the analysis, because it'd be a fantastic set by BW standards (...and BW standards is pretty much all we have to go by atm.) The suicide lead set can always be removed later, but right now, it still seems like the best set to me, even with the Defog change.

In addition, Defog has pretty shitty distribution atm. Basically the only relevant Pokemon with Defog is Scizor and Crobat. Sure, Defog mechanics are annoying for suicide lead Klefki... but does that automatically mean a set that would have a lot of potential last gen be totally unviable now? Lets be realistic here. It's very easy to make the mistake of overvaluing a new change, and it happens often in every single generation.
Yeah you are right, i forgot that Defog users such as Skarmory and Empoleon are not yet available. But suicide lead Klefki is in no way a fantastic lead by BW2 standards. Forretress beats it, Taunt Skarmory beats it (or just sets up more hazards), spinners spin easily against it and it's not that hard to use it as setup bait in general. It's nothing spectacular really, but i guess we can give it a set for now (the suicide lead set i mean) so people realize how bad it is (or i can eat my words)...
 
Because its the same set, should i slash in focus sash and a different set of EVs and mention what the difference is?
 

ginganinja

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Does this thing really need 3 sets???

Quick points

-I endorse the Suicide Spiker set. Yes, sure, its not a "great" lead, but its prolly the best set you can run on it, ergo, it gets a set.
-Ditch the third set, as its p shit, and every single Prankster Mon (or 90% of them), can pull off the same set, and move of them have Taunt / can do other things. The set itself just isn't that great period, so ditch it.
-Personally don't like the DS set either, and would prefer that go as well, but I can see the Prankster DS thing even if I don't particuarly rate it highly, and will leave it up to other QC members to make a decision.
 
Okay, removed the third set and slashed in an alternate item/EV choice on the first set as I think its just the same for a suicide lead.
 
I would also run a set thats a 252 HP/252 Def Bold Klefki with leftovers and Calm Mind/Draining Kiss/Flash Cannon/Thunder Wave. It has decent bulk and can cripple things with thunder wave, plus it has an amazing defensive typing. I would say it is definitely worth a mention
 
I think the sets should look like this:

<p>Klefki @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef<br />
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)<br />
- Spikes<br />
- Foul Play<br />
- Dazzling Gleam<br />
- Thunder Wave / Toxic<br /></p>

Pretty self-explanatory. Prankster Spikes + Thunder Wave / Toxic is sweet. Foul Play for an attacking move against high Attack targets (eg Aegislash) and Dazzling Gleam for a basic STAB.

<p>Klefki @ Light Clay<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef<br />
Calm Nature (+Spd, -Atk)<br />
- Reflect<br />
- Light screen<br />
- Spikes<br />
- Foul Play / Dazzling Gleam<br />

The purpose of DS Klefki should be to set up dual screens and Spikes at any point in time and that's it. To prevent being Taunt bait, you have the two attacking moves of choice in the last slot. Foul Play is probably preferred because it would hit high Attack targets really hard, whereas Dazzling Gleam is more consistent in damage and it gets STAB.

I also want a SubToxic set added because it's actually really viable.

<p>Klefki @ Leftovers<br />
Ability: Prankster<br />
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD<br />
Calm Nature (+Spd, -Atk)<br />
- Substitute<br />
- Toxic<br />
- Torment<br />
- Foul Play<br />

Prankster Substitute and Torment works very well with Toxic. Foul Play is to prevent it from being Taunt bait and does pretty good damage. It also doesn't ask Aegislash to walk in on you and set up for free.

Thoughts?
 
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alexwolf

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I agree with the sets of Fuzznip, but i would slash Spikes after Foul Play on the Torment set. Being able to check Aegislash is nice, but so is being able to do something productive against defensive Steel-types that would otherwise make you useless.
 
Okay, I've edited the two sets and if there is enough reason to post a Sub toxic set i will post one.
Also at the Klefki thread in UT there was a discussion of sorts over a swagger/foul play set like the Liepard one, is that worth anything or should i not bother?
 
I used Dual Screen/T-Wave/Foul Play Klefki with Light Clay to some success. Maybe Thunder Wave is worth a mention? Priority paralysis at 100% accuracy is pretty nice. Also on my dual screen Klefki i gave it 252Def/252Sp.Def/4HP with Impish nature (+Def, -Sp.Atk). It worked well as a paralysis pivot, though it lacks offensive presence against bulky pokemon.
 

Age of Kings

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Any reason Play Rough is not warranted a mention? I think it's superior to Dazzling Gleam because of the greater BP, chance to reduce Attack, and the majority of targets being hit harder by it. The side effect can really screw up some Pokemon.
 
Echoing the suggestion to mention Play Rough; Pokemon like Assault Vest Tyranitar are 3HKO'd [(37.12 - 43.56%)] by Klefki's Play Rough, while Tyranitar can only manage a 3HKO back with Earhquake should he be lacking Fire Blast. In addition to that, Klefki's Play Rough outright 2HKOs variants of Tyranitar that do not invest heavily in HP [(43.98 - 51.61%)] vs. 0 HP Tyranitar), making it dangerous for Dark-types to switch in, should they be predicting Foul Play, and you can probably get away with tacking on an extra 12.5% to whatever damage he does given that he is very effective at his job: setting Spikes.

It's a little situational, but, honestly, it is probably more efficient than Dazzling Gleam given that the Pokemon you want to hit with it when you're able to (i.e Tyranitar) are hit harder by Play Rough.

I also think Imprison deserves a mention somewhere, too. Stealth Rock probably won't be too common until Pokebank arrives, making Spikes the primary entry hazard. Skarmory, Nattorei/Ferrothorn and Forretress will all try to use Klefki as a Spiking opportunity if they can. With Imprison, you can effectively force them out, as they're attacks do piss damage, meaning you're free to lay down hazards until they bring in a mon that can take Klefki out OR force them out by bringing in your own threat. I've been toying with it and Spikes/Thunder Wave/Imprison/Foul Play is pretty solid - you really don't need Dazzling Gleam or Play Rough, but I guess the option is nice.
 

alexwolf

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Yeah those are valid points, definitely slash Play Rough with Dazzling Gleam, probably before it. Also, give a mention to Imprison in the set comments of the first set without slashing it in the set and add Fuzznip's set and i think we can start stamping this.
 
Okay, i made the changes. The set comments on the last set may be a little off as i don't really know what to say about it.
 

Punchshroom

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I don't actually think Klefki needs STAB that badly, but the first set should incorporate Impish / Careful since Play Rough is slashed first. Heck, I think Dazzling Gleam shouldn't even be mentioned due to Play Rough hitting Tyranitar and Goodra (especially Assault Vest variants) that much harder.
 
I lost a game recently vs a Klefki that had Thunder Wave, Substitute, Swagger and Foul Play. It practically 1v6 my entire team.
 

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